Why do........

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:15 pm

some of the tournament organizations qualify so many teams for the fish-offs? I know the more that qualify the better the payback will be but who cares after the boat is gone anyways? Is it really an accomplishment to qualify for the team championships in some org's? Seems to me if you fish a series your chances are very good if you don't get the skunk in a round. It's hard to have a play-off if everyone gets in. What are some of your thoughts on this?
Guy Williams

KPalmer · Post by **KPalmer** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:21 pm

If they only took the top 10 teams per region....midway through the season you would see a lot of teams who don't have a chance drop out and not fish the remaining events, which would result in smaller turnouts, smaller paybacks and less income for directors for the same amount of work...If you are struggling during the season, but still have a chance to make the fishoff, it's an incentive to keep entering the remaining events... I guess an alternative would be to fish any region you would have to drop deposits ahead of time for all events....then if you bail you lose deposit money...something like that might work, and then take top 10%? just my thoughts

smpboy · Post by **smpboy** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:14 pm

just save your time and gas and just make out the check to R&B

Bill Cook · Post by **Bill Cook** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:55 am

Guy- what a great question. I think Mr. Palmer has a lot of it right. Sponsors want to see a lot of boats at the fish off, orgs want as many boats as possible at the tournaments and directors view their success based on how many boats show up. All of this adds up to making it easier rather than harder to make the fish off. I don't see any way to make a substantial change to the process. At WON Bass we used to see a big drop off after the middle of the season. Mike Kennedy changed the qualifying process to fix this. It seems to work well, but it is still imperfect.

Thanks,
Bill Cook

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:10 am

Did'nt Wonbass only get 72 boats for the fish off? How many do you want there 40?

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:05 am

I think the top 10 in the points in each region should only be allowed to come to the championship.

It is supposed to be the best of the best in each region...not the best AND the guys who got 15th place in the points.
I understand Bills reasons for the high amount of teams that get to go, but I still think it needs to be the best of the best in each region.....
And they should do away with the travelers region. The rest of us have to adjust our schedules to fish a whole region so everybody should do the same and not be able to cherry pick the tournaments they like...

The championship is supposed to be a tournament we "earn" our invite to...
Thats like the rule in little league that says that all of the kids HAVE to play......I say if you arent good enough, then too bad...practice more!!

Pete

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:06 am

I think that the process could use a little snugging up. IMHO Won Bass has the very best qualifying procedure. Back when we were able to fish it ,

, I can remember several times when it would be a dogfight to get that last spot. Mr. Kennedy was a genius! ! Anglers Choice has something similar, but then they get a little crazy at the end of the season and allow waivers and partner swapping. ABA, well what can I say, the more the merrier. With the format that they put out for the TOC, it just makes sense to have all you can have. We didn't hit any of the "Carnival Options" this year, but it's fun when you do, especially if you Suck. I'm not really familiar with National's process, so I can't comment. As for the low turnouts, I think it's part this and part that. Anyone Remember Fast-Pitch softball?

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:16 am

With all the water shortages everywhere these fishing tournaments are becoming a joke. Takes the fun right out of it. I think after this year im dropping some circuits for a while. The scene around here is just sad.

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:23 am

Hey John.... SWBA..... AL and Rex swear by it!!

Pete

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:41 am

im thinking more along the lines of just roaming.. instead of throwing an entry and gas to the lake everyother weekend.. thats an easy 400 bills for my partner and me. Use that loot to travel and fish a different lake every weekend.. I havent really experienced the nor cal scene and wouldnt mind taking some road trips up there. I love fishing around here, I just get burnt out lately. I was all for Perris until on blast off you have going on plane when its suppose to be 5 mph.. guys going on plane inside the 5mph buoys.. guys blatantly dragging everywhere... people stacked on top of eachother. That lake has potential but the people there just ruine it for me. Desperate times call for desperate measures i guess. I for one will not sink to that level

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:43 am

'Best of the best' option in each region that is paid into a fund that is SAVED for the TOC. Then if you are in the top 10 in AOY in your region you get to fish for that pot of bucks. But only if you contribute to the option all year. That way the Org's and sponsers get what they want, [participants] and the top guys get what they deserve, more $ for being the best that year. Rick G.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:47 am

since when does any one deserve money for being in the top 10? The top 10 guys in each region or going to beat out the bottom 15 no matter what water its on.. Its not like those guys are taking money out of your pocket. Maybe we should make out special cookies for everyone and give them stickers too.

org's are already getting flack from raising the entry fee, now you guys want to add another option on top of that? That will just lead to more and more crying..

this is nothing more then a parking lot sidebet for each region.

buddy brown · Post by **buddy brown** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:50 am

Make those 11 place and lower qualify through other means like:

a three day locked cage fight anything goes. The only food and water is dropped throught the top of the cage. Handfuls of Fritos, chicken drumettes squeezed thru the holes inthe fence, Ritz crackers raining down on the mayhem. Ovaltine and Old english dousing the crowd. All while Pantera's Vulgar display of power is looped for 3 days. Those left standing will be given a physical and then cleared to go to Havasu...

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:53 am

that sounds like my weekends.. that doesnt scare me.

buddy brown · Post by **buddy brown** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:56 am

Alex M. · Post by **Alex M.** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:00 am

This is a tuff call...and can definitely be looked at in several different ways...

I'm from down here in SoCal, and was up @ Clear Lake again this year for the ABA TOC last week. They pulled 180 boats(9 flights). Honestly....Waaaaay to many IMHO. I know Clear Lake is big and all, but the fish obviously get into confined areas and this causes tension for alot of the anglers. There were so many spots where there were 10+ boats within a single cast of each other(usually encroaching less than 25 yards). It sucks a$$ when you go to 3 of your spots(that aren't even well known community holes) and you have to duke it out with other guys for the real estate...either that or flip a beotch and head somewhere else. I think even the larger bodies of water should have a 100 boat cap for their TOC.

I liked KPalmer's idea about the deposit to get people to commit and not bail out mid season....

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:00 am

if you just feel like beating on something. My feeling is that making the top 10 in your region is an accomplishment worth something. Lots of good teams in most org's top ten's. Sometimes though guys just fish enough to squeek in and do well in the TOC's. If that is an issue, why not have a chance at more $. None of these Org's even exist with out sponsers. NBW, done without Skeeter, WON, done without Tracker, and ABA done without Ranger. Maybe you should join the Pointseekers Bass Club and fish for points and a great banquet at years end. lol Relax, it FUN. Rick G.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:12 am

I dont think its very hard to make the top 10 in a divsion at all.. If you fish every derby.. each org will be lucky to draw 40 boats this season. The average will be around 30. if you fish once a week and fish all the derbies you should make the top 10. I dont think that's deserving. If its more cheese you are after have some parking lot bets.Im sure you find some out there.

I think adding another option will drive up costs and scare away even more teams. IMHO.

Its sounds like the motivation here is money, not fun. Im easily confused though.

If a few guys are good enough to fish a few and sneak in, more power to them. They have done the work and THAT right there is what deserves to be rewarded.. difference of opinion i guess.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:13 am

ive seen a hungry Phua , and that right there is enough to scare any man. He dont play.. guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurl.

Pearl Swimbaits · Post by **Pearl Swimbaits** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:25 am

The SWBA is doing better than all of these freshwater gigs and it has NO BOAT SPONSER. Good people doin what it takes to put all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ back to the fisherman.................the two guys runnin this show dont make a dime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

100$ buy in
20$ options

The SWBA season would roughly cost 2 freshwater touneys and they would be at LAKE PERRIS now how the he!! can one justify this.............................cant see u on the beach bro

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:13 am

Why penalize guys who shoot for the big picture? They choose to practice a ton on the large body of water where the REAL money is won. If a Team wants to focus on the year end championship and is good enough to cherry pick and still make it. I think that is genius. Its a smart approach. If putting 10 bucks aside for the top ten teams keeps everyone from crying, then it might be worth it.

I never was a manual labor guy, i prefer to sit at a desk

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:29 pm

I think you guys might like what Kevin and I are doing this year. We're basically running a 5 tournament circuit that's only $100 total to enter. All of the tournaments are night tournaments. The first 2 events are at Perris and starting in June, the last 3 events are at DVL. I'm sure the lake will be open by then.

Paybacks will be 100% as usual.

We're running these low cost tournaments because of the state of the economy. All of us started tournament fishing because of our love for the sport and competition. That being said, why not compete if it's only going to cost $50 per team member to fish for big money?

In addition, fishing a night series at Perris and DVL will be unique, cheap, and fun as heck. Our first tournament will be at Perris on Saturday night, March 28. This will be the first Spring night tournament that I've ever hear of so it should be interesting.

Anyways, look for more information in the next month. Feel free to call if you have any questions.

Brian Linehan
(714) 717-6503

elfish16 · Post by **elfish16** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:03 pm

well here is a curve ball for everyone in this discussion...what about the teams that are fishing the Casitas only Angler's Choice? They are going to be pulling 30 boats a derby and regardless of how many people qualify...where do they fish their TOC???

Seriously....someone explain that to the guys that are fishing this circuit and can't remove their boats due to the lockout system at Casitas?

If we are so worried about who goes and doesn't go then what are we fishing for? Where did the fun go? If you aren't enjoying and having fun you won't succeed...my experience plain and simple and I've been derby fishing for almost 10 years...

I agree with both sides in this debate...the best deserve to fish the tournament and I like Anglers Choice's idea...they have different circuits AOY's fish for their OWN set of money ASIDE from the other money and the TOC. This makes it fair for the anglers that ARE THE BEST out there... The BEST angler fish against EVERYONE and THE OTHER BEST ANGLERS! GREAT CONCEPT!!!!!!!!

If you are consistent enough to fish the tournaments and fork out the money to fish...who cares how many qualify! A lot of team fish 4 of 6 derbies and don't qualify...so show dedication to the sport of fishing and that alone should EARN you a chance to fish for the big money! So why change whats going on...they are great fun for everyone and gives dedication a break and reward!

I mean seriously...why should a "decent to beginning" or "inexperienced" rookie be taken out of contention if he's trying to make something out of this sport?!?!

Didn't all you anglers that were up and coming, the under dog feel incredible to WIN a first tournament or win a TOC...thats what this sport is about...

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:14 pm

"What if" the org's let anyone and everyone fish their TOC's (maybe say you have to fish 5 events or more if need be during the year) and get rid of the points qualifying aspect of team tournaments? How would that go? The teams that may not do so well during the year would still be able to play at the TOC. Then the org's would get at least 5 entry's to get TOC money per team, boat company's would get more TOC participation and more money (as long as the org's make option's available plus more if the TOC has an entry) would be available for the also ran's after the boat is won. Remember fellas, this is just "what if's" and thoughts to explore nicely.
Guy Williams

elfish16 · Post by **elfish16** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:36 pm

thats an interesting thought for sure...

the idea is fun for sure...

I do like the points in tourneys so you can determine AOY in the regions. I mean...from my years of fishing WON, Anglers Choice and ABA...it seems that if you fish all the tournaments you WILL qualify for the TOC's.

thats a great honor...to win an AOY can help with future chances in many anglers careers if they use this team stuff as their foundation to get experience. Sponsors wanna see AOY's and wins and such...so you can land the bigger deals to move forward...

who knows how to make this work...this summer I lost angler of the year by a mere 5 points because it was a combined "poundage per tournament" and points per placing that decided my season. I wish there was one or the other in points deciding...do total combined weight for the derbies or do solely points.

any thoughts?

Long Nguyen · Post by **Long Nguyen** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:17 pm

Guy Williams wrote:the tournament organizations qualify so many teams for the fish-offs? I know the more that qualify the better the payback will be but who cares after the boat is gone anyways? Is it really an accomplishment to qualify for the team championships? Seems to me if you fish a series your chances are very good if you don't get the skunk in a round. It's hard to have a play-off if everyone gets in. What are some of your thoughts on this?
Guy Williams

Guy, often times tournament organizations will promise a minimum number of boats to the local chamber of commerce/hotel/casino that is paying the organization to come to that venue.

If they can calculate the local economic impact to the community, it becomes easier to justify cutting them a check. I'm sure this still holds true to an extent.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:42 pm

You guys act like these team tournaments are the BASS Elites. Get over your top ten self and consider who else may be in the field paying your winnings. I fished teams for 4 years with my pre-teen kids. The one thing we got out of it was to attend the ABA Classic at Lake Mead every year. Plots treated my kids like professional fishermen and gave them some acknowledgement for their year of effort. We never took a check out of Vegas.
Showing up when it is raining and cold and having your dad tell you to throw the worm instead of huddle under the console is tough on an 11 year old kid. Being a dad, paying both sides of the entry and all the other expenses involved in team tournament fishing is not easy when you have guys like John Kerr and Mike Long as your competitors.
We fought the battle and even fished our way in to a WON Championship after winning one regular season tournament. We had almost twice the weight of our next competitor and netted a little over 600 bucks. Just 600 because the dad was tired of paying almost 500 bucks a month to enter two team tournament circuits for my two kids. We qualified as the first wildcard in about 20th place.
Was our attendance a problem for the other teams? Doubt it. We got to donate our money to R&B just like the rest of the field. It was pretty cool for a 14 year old to make the WON Championship. That was all that mattered to the kid. Getting to fish a multi day tournament. The net effect is a kid that is in to fishing. Is that what you want to get rid of?

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:27 pm

Easy Robert!! I totally see your point and my original question or comment is in no way saying to leave your son at home. I have a daughter that is almost ready to fish with me on some events and some day a series. What I am saying is, does everyone need to qualify for the team TOC's for this sport to continue to grow and is the qualifying criteria to a team TOC's too easy? These are just questions that I have thrown out there to be discussed nicely as I stated earlier, not to have a father that likes to fish with his son get all upset about a question or a thought that will lead to nothing other than some discussion. Is team bass fishing TOC's just like little league baseball, everyone needs to play? Could be. Is more qualifiers better? Maybe. I'm totally neutral on this thing but I wanted to see what others thought about it.
Guy Williams

bOber · Post by **bOber** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:19 pm

Robert, don't let online pontifications of a few guys make you feel like you don't belong. If you qualified to fish it then you earned the right to be there.

Tournament orgs make their rules available to all the anglers and if you don't like the rules you can always choose not to fish.

If you want to know how many people show up to TOCs ask the director or look up the results for prior years. If you don't want fish against a big field, skip the TOC.

People forget that we all fish tournaments for different reasons. Some people can't have a good time unless they are taking your money and others are just happy to be there fishing with friends and family.

The TOCs are held on lakes that reasonably support 200 boat tournaments and there is plenty of room for everybody that qualifies, whether you go to win, go to have a good time or both.

Topwater Terry · Post by **Topwater Terry** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:59 pm

was that kid who was not good enough to make the baseball team

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:32 pm

the geeks were right.

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:35 pm

Brandon, I think you have this whole thread twisted in your mind. Maybe you should read what it's about again. It had nothing to do with Robert. When I started this thread it was a discussion of why the qualifying criteria was how it is (and going to be forever). Everyone has their views about this and good, I want to hear them but keep it nice. That way it can still be a discussion and not a pissing contest!!
Guy Williams

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:56 pm

My response may have came off strong but look at the responses to your original post. Parents and their kids do have to make a big commitment to make these championsihps with the current make up of the teams. You guys that get together with your buddy of 20, 30, or 40 years and fish the same lakes should consider branching out. Curry has the right idea. Come out and fish the other circuits or cut the umbilical cord to your buddy and fish some individual weight.
If Rooke and Bailey came to San Diego they might learn something. (not beating on anybody here just one example) Do a little traveling as my son and I have done in the past year out on the individual weight events. If guys had the balls to take a chance at a different trail there should be no change in the number of fishermen in a particular region.
Are there too many guys afraid of what they may face? Not making the Championship? Not taking the boat every year?

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:15 pm

Ok Robert. Your view is noted. Sounds like you have something against Pete but whatever. The thread was headed somewhere good until you went raving. Kill teams and go individual, that would be cool with me. More boats and money to spend and win. Good luck this year, keep it fun.
Guy Williams

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:41 pm

Now you are the one twisting words. Where did Pete come in to this? And only fish individual? Never said that. Just thought some of you guys might consider mixing up your game. Fish different regions if you have to hold hands with your buddy. Let's not make this an elitest club. Realize for some the only thing they get for their year of commitment is the TOC trip. I guess my point is IF YOU want to raise the bar FOR YOURSELF consider Curry's idea and go fish another series. There may be a bit of self fulfillment in stepping out of your comfortable home lake. Maybe it will give you an appreciation for making a TOC. Just an idea. Not an order.

smpboy · Post by **smpboy** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:26 am

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:21 am

I've already done that and been there. SD and Socal regions. In won bass and aba Robert. Also qualified for every western classic I tried to qualify for in pro's. All that has nothing to do with the original thread. It's all about why is the qualifying criteria where it is. Is aba a better trail because they qualify more boats than won and nbw? That's what I was looking at. If an org qualifies more boats than another org and the turn out for that org produces more boats at the TOC is that org seem better to their sponsors? That's where I was getting at.
Guy Williams

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:41 am

I commend you Guy on playing nice. That showed a great deal of restraint.

Brian.. that sounds like a much needed change of pace and cheap enough to wear i can fish it solo if i want. March at night might be a chilly one though. Should be fun.

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:55 am

Im not backing Guy hes a little bitch. Robert I think your beating on the wrong door. Guy has cashed more checks on different lakes then you can piss in. Next why bring rooke and bailey in they are 2 good tourin g pros that have a nice resume, why beat them up for kicken butt and taken names theyre playing by the rules could of sworn they travel all over and fish for real money. Robert theres a new circuit Ray and John are doing sounds like your son and you are perfect for it. Low cost, and no touring pros, matter of fact if you cashed to many checks the past year you can't even play. Pretty good idea JB

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:14 am

I dont know a whole lot about Rooke's background, but Shaun is a beast who has cashed checks on more bodies of water than any of us, (as of late , before i get screamed at by a bunch of old guys ). The guy can flat out fish. This convo isnt about him.

You hit the nail on the head. Sponsors want to see promotion of their product to the masses. More boats = more sponsor dollars = more for the fisherman. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Im just a kid what do i know? Ill shut up now.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:38 am

Guy Williams wrote:the tournament organizations qualify so many teams for the fish-offs? I know the more that qualify the better the payback will be but who cares after the boat is gone anyways? Is it really an accomplishment to qualify for the team championships? . It's hard to have a play-off if everyone gets in. What are some of your thoughts on this?
Guy Williams

Back to the original post.
Who cares after the boat is gone? My kids who feel that they accomplished something for commiting to a season of fishing as hard as they can. I am sure they wanted to get a check or a plaque finish. Just doesn't happen too much for these kids. They are not fully able to conceive all the factors that contribute to a winning team effort. Is it really an accomplishment to qualify for the team championships?
Try to stay excited about showing up for a tournament after seeing the same "old" (to a kid) guys take the money and wood. Seems to me if you fish a series your chances are very good if you don't get the skunk in a round Not really. With the same guys fishing and a group like WON taking the short top percentage a middle of the pack team does not have an easy road to the championship. It's hard to have a play-off if everyone gets in. As I am trying to point out maybe your concept of "what" the chamiopnship is about is not the same as the others. If the organizations wanted to "crown" a true champion team they wouldn't put the tournament on the same region's home water.
Your opinion of the team chamionship is obvious. If you were able to win the Championship your season would be complete. I am trying to teach my kids to commit to a task. Their reward for commiting to the season is making the championship. Our first target was ABA as it is pretty much a show up bonus. WON is not. Making it in your rookie year as a fourteen year old was a real accomplishment. He did not have to win but he still thought he could. That is what counts. Most of the guys that contributed to the thread are also top tenners. IMHO (to steal RG's favorite phrase) if you have a need to step it up, do it. Others have a different opinion of what the Championship is about.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:54 am

hippie wrote:Im not backing Guy hes a little bitch. Robert I think your beating on the wrong door. Guy has cashed more checks on different lakes then you can piss in. Next why bring rooke and bailey in they are 2 good tourin g pros that have a nice resume, why beat them up for kicken butt and taken names theyre playing by the rules could of sworn they travel all over and fish for real money. Robert theres a new circuit Ray and John are doing sounds like your son and you are perfect for it. Low cost, and no touring pros, matter of fact if you cashed to many checks the past year you can't even play. Pretty good idea JB

I said that my example of R&B was just an example. My oldest (16) son is fishing Stren next year. He is trying to expand his fishing not just collect plaques from one lake. This is not meant to be a pissing match. Just giving you all another POV. I have a top ten and three top twenties out of the back of the boat in the Guard series this year. John and Ray may frown on my participation in the rookie league. I wouldn't try to get in anyway. I am trying to fish tournaments that are a challenge to me. I do not understand guys that fish events lower than their skill level. I know it is their right but there are others that should not be excluded just because they don't make the top ten. The line is at about twenty to twenty-five. Nobody should be upset. It is still about fishing. Or is it?

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:52 am

One thing I failed to mention guys is that the Perris tournaments will be 8 hour tournaments! None of this 6 hour Summer stuff. If I'm going to go through the trouble to hook the boat up and drive to the lake, I want to get a solid session in, not 6 hours.

Therefore, I'm planning on starting the first two tournaments at Perris at 3:00 PM so you guys can catch the last 2 hours before sunset and end the tournaments at 11:00 PM.

Also, the first two at Perris will be a 5 fish limit. The 3 fish limit stinks at DVL because all of the weights are the same. 5 fish will be unique.

Last, it might be a little chilly on March 28, but the "Big Girls" will definitely be fat and spawning. It will be interesting to see if they eat at night.

With the low entry and decent turnout, the payback will be really good for sure. Out goal is to go "Back to the Basics," run an affordable circuit for you all, and bring back the fun to the So. Cal. bass fishing scene.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:10 am

I was reluctant in the past about this series, but you sold me Brian. Your smile does it every time. Strike up the band.

bOber · Post by **bOber** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:03 am

Guy, I don't think I have anything twisted. Your 1st post seems pretty clear, you think too many people are allowed into the TOCs. Your partners post says only the top 10 guys deserve to go to the TOC.

I'm sorry, but I think Robert F is right.

How could someone come on here and basically tell 2/3 of the people who qualified for the TOC that they don't deserve to be there? Why come out and try to alienate or insult the people who have padded your wallets all year long? They fished the tourneys and made the TOC. I'd say "congratulations, come fish and have a good time."

When you get to the TOC lake only a few of ALL the qualifiers really have a shot a winning anyway. The guys (no pun intended) who think they are going to win should hope that everyone shows up and that they enter all the options.

How ridiculous would it have been for Bill and Troy to grab the mic last week and say "you know, a lot of you guys should have just stayed home, you don't deserve to be here".

FWIW, I think I am being NICE and I'm not trying to single anyone out. If I'm offending any of you feel free to PM me with your phone number and we can talk about it. Otherwise just accept this as my opinion and understand that it may be different that yours.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:28 am

"Untill the Organizations have the TOC's on a body of water where there is no local circuit there will never be a true champion". Sadly, none of the current crop of Team Trails make us do that. Does not mean the good guys won't still win, but it would still make it more interesting. Rick G.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:43 am

I agree with that Rick. If they held the derby on a lake where a circuit didnt fish. It would be more about ability than time on the water. Where is this lake that no one fishes?

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:47 am

in 2007 held the championship at Lake Santa Margarita. Definately a good test of the best.

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:11 am

keep it the way it is
when you first start its about making the championship, than it morfs into trying to win the championship.

its simple really two things happen you eather get tired of getting beat and step up to the NEXT LEVEL or you just donate.

but if the quilfication is so hard how do you get the desire to STEP IT UP to the next level. its like ok I didnt qualify again, but when your at that championship and you see the wood and cash going everyware but your pocket, the true competitor will come out and make that next step, this all takes time for some people longer than others

and trust me I want to be thier and when asked I want to say I have been thier and done that and help the next genaration.

compatition makes people better at any sport you compete in

walt kondracki

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:50 am

Of the 3 TOCs that I attended, the first one was won by an 11th place finisher, the 3rd one was won by an 12th place finisher, and I really can't figure out where the Winner's of the 2nd event qualified at all. My computer must be missing some information.

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