The Liberal Challange

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:11 pm

List all of the rights that have been taken away from you by conservatives or Republicans, then we can list those taken by liberals and Democrats, we will compare the lists!

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:14 pm

Okay, you start.

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:21 pm

It will be a much easier task for you and fish, besides, like most progressive thinkers you have a hard time following directions, maybe I should post it in Spanish too!

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:59 pm

I guess the fact that you are being spyed on means less to you then I don't know.........................what?

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:47 pm

I'll play a little more...............In certain states, no alcohol sales on Sunday, In certain states, adult entertainment (videos) are not allowed, in some states a woman can't get an abortion or are very limited. We can go on and on and I am sure you may have a few too.

Personally, I have nothing to hide on the wiretapping issue, but somehow it still rings as wrong to me, I know it is not a problem for you because you are such an american.

hydro · Post by **hydro** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:11 am

conservative/republicans - have taken away the right to vote for qualified ,ethical , elected officials who put America first ( American citizens, families,workers,taxpayers) instead of selling out to foreign and domestic lobbyists to line their own pockets.

liberal/ Democrats - have taken away the right to vote for qualified ,ethical , elected officials who put America first ( American citizens, families,workers,taxpayers) instead of selling out to foreign and domestic lobbyists to line their own pockets.

Gee! , I see what you guys are talking about now . There is a vast difference between the two.

Thunnus Salmoides · Post by **Thunnus Salmoides** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:23 pm

Conservative/Republicans stand for Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Liberal/Democrats stand for choice, community and the pursuit of fairness.

Thunnus Salmoides · Post by **Thunnus Salmoides** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:19 pm

I'll play a little more...............In certain states, no alcohol sales on Sunday

Gasp!

In certain states, adult entertainment (videos) are not allowed

Gasp! Gasp!

in some states a woman can't get an abortion or are very limited

In some communist utopian states some women are forced to get abortions.

Personally, I have nothing to hide on the wiretapping issue, but somehow it still rings as wrong to me, I know it is not a problem for you because you are such an american.

You still have the right to burn the American flag.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:03 am

My point exactly, these are not huge issues (except the spying thing) but yet the republican party has passed laws against them, and they call themselves the party of less gov't...........I think not.

I don't know anyone that has ever burned the American flag but I suppose if you feel the need.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:49 am

..still waitin on that answer there, Hall. Its odd that you're shying away from this issue. I can't imagine why....

Thunnus Salmoides · Post by **Thunnus Salmoides** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:55 am

FishaHallic wrote:My point exactly, these are not huge issues (except the spying thing) but yet the republican party has passed laws against them, and they call themselves the party of less gov't...........I think not.

Is that all you got? I'll help you out.
The conservatives stand in the way of:
Your right to look at a $1 bill without seeing the word 'God' on it.
Your right to 'free' health-care.
Your right to live is a gun free world.
Your right to NPR on all radio stations.

And about that "spying thing". If listening to a phone call from a suspected terrorist from another country prevents a bomb from falling on my head, I'm all for it. If we had been attacked again in the last seven years, I have a feeling that you would be the first one to complain that President Bush did not do enough to prevent it. That is assuming that you have survived.

Thunnus Salmoides · Post by **Thunnus Salmoides** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:11 am

Andy Lippert wrote:..still waitin on that answer there, Hall. Its odd that you're shying away from this issue. I can't imagine why....

Andy! You're a GREAT AMERICAN!

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:40 am

Iâ€™ll play a little now.

Lets start with our 2nd amendment, I donâ€™t think anyone in this forum will disagree that liberals have been and will continue to strip our right to bear arms.

Liberals have taken away our right as parents, by law we are not notified if our 14yr daughter decides to have an abortion procedure or put on birth control pills but she needs our consent to be seen for the flu!

What happened to the pledge of allegiance?

How about my right as an employer to hire, fire and promote employees the way I see fit. Unions suck the breath out of our economy, like just about everything else today they were a great idea when they started but greed and politics have ruined them.

Liberals have even taken away the rights of a the Boy Scouts of America!

Liberals have striped the rights of my kids to celebrate Christmas at school.

Liberals took away the rights of a person to have a cigarette in a damn bar, I don't smoke but I'd be pretty pissed of if I owned a bar, if people that drink alcohol don't like cigarette smoke then don't go there!

Spying? if you are not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about, unless maybe your afraid someone will find out about your drugs or the fact that youâ€™re gay or even cheating on your spouse!
But do not fret there are now rights to protect you if you are homosexual, if you know the definition of "is" you're covered with the cheating and rest assured that your people are working day and night to legalize drugs.

When you start whining about your rights being taken away, you better look in your own backyard.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:21 pm

Well on the spying issue, if all they were watching was suspected terrorist that would be fine but there not. I believe there are plenty of finger pointing about the gov't spying on the media. Now that may not seem like much to you but I think that smells of communism and I don't think we want to go there.

BTW, I don't do drugs or guys, sorry.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/200 ... urce_.html

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200901 ... 3489.shtml

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:43 pm

Andy Lippert wrote:..still waitin on that answer there, Hall. Its odd that you're shying away from this issue. I can't imagine why....

What are you talking about boy, I responded with several examples, please read before you get panties in wadd.
Thank you

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:13 pm

I'll bet our government has always spied on the media, at least I hope they have the past fifty years.
I don't trust BHO as far as I could throw him but I trust him a hell of a lot more than Dan Rather!

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:43 pm

Well, I don't really know what to say to that except WOW.

Does McCarthyism mean anything to you? Perhaps we should all have to give a loyalty oath or better yet be forced to join the republican party.........not my idea of America and I hope that is not yours.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:46 pm

Thunnus Salmoides wrote:
Andy Lippert wrote:..still waitin on that answer there, Hall. Its odd that you're shying away from this issue. I can't imagine why....
Andy! You're a GREAT AMERICAN!

You know this guy was in the military also.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:06 pm

WOw, you're comparing me to Timothy Mcviegh!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You REALLY ARE a worthless f-in lib, Hall. You'll stop at nothing to try and discount the merit of anyone who disagrees with you. You are THE definition of scumbag, and fit the mold of a liberal to the T. Keep it up man, folks like you and a$$ attack are the epidemy of the dimwit unAmerican blowhards found on the left side of the political spectrum. Keep representin'!

Bravo Mr Hall....Bravo!

Andy Lippert

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:25 pm

No I really was not comparing you to Timothy McVeigh, but I was pointing out that a lot of people would have said he was a great american hero also, without knowing anything about him.

Again just because you were or are in the service I am not gonna roll over.

BTW, your the one who was spouting off at the mouth again in your first post on this thread so take your crying somewhere else.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:42 pm

Crying? I'm not crying. Please show me where I am crying.
Nowhere in this post, or in the last few months for that matter, has anyone including myself mentioned my service, you delusional jacka$$. I have not or ever asked for a free pass, and it is unknown as to the reason for Mr. Thunnus saying that I am a great American (he's probably just a true American who "get's it", unlike yourself). You were the one who brought up my military service, in such a way that it bares resemblence, and is in keeping with the common thoughts of the military, on the part of liberal whack jobs such as yourself. I don't understand your disdain for those who have served, but think that it may be because you never had the balls to do it yourself, and jealous thoughts run rampant through your misguided brain.

I will not take my "spouting off at the mouth" anywhere else, kind sir, as I have been a member of this site long before you probably have even heard about it. I still type NCBF.COM into the location slot, to this day...something you would probably know nothing about, anyway. It is you, my friend, that should take their "spouting off" somewhere else, as I think you may meet more "friendlier" people, who think along the same lines as you do, on a socialist anti-American blog site, as opposed to this sportsmans website. When is the last time you posted about fishing anyway?

Andy

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:09 pm

Nice history lesson. Good news is President Obama and the Democratic Houses of Congress can terminate these programs immediately correct?

How long do you give them to correct this before you open a thread here complaining Fish?

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:25 pm

Andy, you miss understand, , when I said quit your crying I meant "quit your crying" and take it somewhere else until you do.

I never said you mentioned your service, my responce was to the guy that called you a true american, you take everything so personal jeez.........read between the lines a little.

Unlike you, I don't care how long you have been posting, I don't want you to leave this site nor was I asking you to. Unlike you, I believe in America, and what it stands for and one of those things is free speach. I have never and would never try to squash those rights like you are trying to do with me.

The "free pass" comment was aimed toward you. Just because you have served or are serving does not make your opinion any better or worse than mine. You attack me (verbally) and I will attack back it's that simple. I have not seen your post for a while, maybe a month or so, and the first thing you do is attack me for not responding to this thread when I already responded 1 or 2 times.

Get over yourself, speak nicely with me and I will do the same for you if not then don't cry about the barrage of insults and insinuations I can launch since you seem to enjoy launching the same at me.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:29 pm

Bob Simard wrote:Nice history lesson. Good news is President Obama and the Democratic Houses of Congress can terminate these programs immediately correct?

How long do you give them to correct this before you open a thread here complaining Fish?

I am not sure what you are talking about.

Go back and look who starts most threads and you will see I start very few. I will respond to threads when I feel the need though.

I just checked, I had to go back 6 pages to find a thread that I started other than one when I posted something about a good movie playing on tv. Check your facts please

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:04 pm

"Well on the spying issue, if all they were watching was suspected terrorist that would be fine but there not. I believe there are plenty of finger pointing about the gov't spying on the media. Now that may not seem like much to you but I think that smells of communism and I don't think we want to go there.

BTW, I don't do drugs or guys, sorry.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/200 ... urce_.html"

That was your post right?

You read the article you referenced? that clearly states government agencies CIA and NSA, pulling phone records to see who was calling who - trying to track a CIA leak. Sanctioned by the hated Bush administration.

And from another thread -

"these are not huge issues (except the spying thing) but yet the republican party has passed laws against them, and they call themselves the party of less gov't...........I think not. "

So my question to you was quite simple - since this is a obviously a Republican driven initiative - how long before the Dems overturn it? They hold all the power remember?

WILL YOU HOLD the Party in Power - Democrats - to the same standards?

How much time will you give them to overturn these policies?

And IF THEY DO NOT, will you call out President Obama on this issue, as you called out Bush?

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:26 am

Bob Simard wrote:"Well on the spying issue, if all they were watching was suspected terrorist that would be fine but there not. I believe there are plenty of finger pointing about the gov't spying on the media. Now that may not seem like much to you but I think that smells of communism and I don't think we want to go there.

BTW, I don't do drugs or guys, sorry.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/200 ... urce_.html"

That was your post right?

You read the article you referenced? that clearly states government agencies CIA and NSA, pulling phone records to see who was calling who - trying to track a CIA leak. Sanctioned by the hated Bush administration.

And from another thread -

"these are not huge issues (except the spying thing) but yet the republican party has passed laws against them, and they call themselves the party of less gov't...........I think not. "

So my question to you was quite simple - since this is a obviously a Republican driven initiative - how long before the Dems overturn it? They hold all the power remember?

WILL YOU HOLD the Party in Power - Democrats - to the same standards?

How much time will you give them to overturn these policies?

And IF THEY DO NOT, will you call out President Obama on this issue, as you called out Bush?

Now that is a lot better, reference my quote so I know what the hell you are talking about.

I believe the issue at hand is being "looked into" right now. Now, if he does not overturn it will I call out "Party in Power"? I will call them out like I have seen the republicans call out the idiot they voted in, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Bob why are you so angry? I mean you had a good run, a total idiot of your party was voted in and you got 8 good yrs out of him...........well, let's just say you got 8 years out of him. Now all of a sudden every republican and his brother is bitter and they also some how morphed overnight into fiscal conservatives, this is very strange.

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:18 am

First -

I will never accuse you of 'knowing what the hell you're talking about.' You smoke a lot of dope or what? No short term memory? I was replying to a post THAT YOU WROTE.

I think for the next 4 years you'll spend every waking breath talking about how evil the Republicans are and what an idot Bush was.

My point - they (Republicans) are simply not relevant at this point. Your team has all the power - they can 'correct' things like this very easily and quickly (should they choose to.)

So THAT part of the question to you is real simple -

Will you hold them to the same criteria you hold Bush and the R's?

(I think not. I think you're just like the blind followers on the right that you are so critical of)

Second -

I have been critical of Bush since he took his eye off the ball and shifted our foreign policy to that of an interventionist, versus containment and maintaining regional stability (again - being a greedy capitalist - I could give a rats a$$ what Sadam did within his borders, as long as the oil flows). Once he crosses into a neighbors, different story. All the Nazi Germany - "what if we could have stopped Hitler in 38'" comparisons were laughable.

Further - Bin Laden should have had his a$$ strapped to a water board long ago. We had em all cornered and surrounded and let them go while our troops waited on corrupt tribal leaders to come in and make the bust. Instead - they all slipped across a border we couldn't chase them across.

I have given a lot, A LOT, of dollars and time to the R's over the years. I gave nothing to McCain and have given them nothing the last 2 years.

AND I have been far more critical of the Washington R's (including my guy Wally Herger) the last 6 years. They spent and spent and spent. Spent on things they were not empowered in any way shape of form to spend on. THEY had the power, and used it to stuff pork into their district's pockets.

Bush has long-since been a Keynesian guy. As is Obama. It doesn't work and drives up deficits. Throw in a bunch of new taxes, kills us.

For me - it's real simple. SPENDING LESS than you TAKE IN isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. It's common since.

So Again - will you be critical of Obama and his administration....

"I believe the issue at hand is being "looked into" right now. Now, if he does not overturn it will I call out "Party in Power"? I will call them out like I have seen the republicans call out the idiot they voted in, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. "

........

I guess though that pretty much answers the question though right? You freakin hypocrite

Thunnus Salmoides · Post by **Thunnus Salmoides** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:28 am

FishaHallic wrote:
Andy Lippert wrote:..still waitin on that answer there, Hall. Its odd that you're shying away from this issue. I can't imagine why....

What are you talking about boy, I responded with several examples, please read before you get panties in wadd.
Thank you

I think Mr. Lippert meant this.

FishaHallic wrote:
This is the problem as I see it with the republican party. Now I am not blaming you Rod but before you post something like this you need to do some research, like I think Greg said in another post Snopes can be your friend.

How many times on this site and others have you seen posting similar to this that are out right lies and untruths? I for one have seen it too many times for it to be a coincidence. This is a republican tactic, make up a bunch of crap, throw it out there and see what sticks.
They tried the same thing with Obama about being a muslim, a terrorist and a community organizer.
I could have a lot more respect for republican party and it's members if they would not pull these kind of stunts. When we see it so many times how are we suppose to believe anything you guys say? Like the kid who cried wolf, after a while we won't believe anything.

Name a republican who said President Obama was a terrorist. And I don't mean a registered republican or your average Joe "the plumber" republican. I mean an elected or an official representative. If you can't, you are just making up a bunch of crap, throwing it out there and seeing what sticks.

Last chance to answer the question. Or are you a hypocrite who justs "make up a bunch of crap, throw it out there and see what sticks"?

No I really was not comparing you to Timothy McVeigh, but I was pointing out that a lot of people would have said he was a great american hero also, without knowing anything about him.

There you go again. Who thinks Tim Mcveigh was a great american hero? You really should apologize to Andy. It is people like him who allow us the freedom to sit at our computers and express ourselves as we see fit. I hope that you get that but you probably don't.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:41 pm

Tobe wrote:Liberals took away the rights of a person to have a cigarette in a damn bar, I don't smoke but I'd be pretty pissed of if I owned a bar, if people that drink alcohol don't like cigarette smoke then don't go there!

I love this argument since in California smokers have dropped from something like 58% of the population to under 20%. Since I quit smoking I quit going to the Boathouse. The smoke drifting in from outside is horrible. They lost business because of smokers. Not smoking reduces healthcare costs to taxpayers. The governments strong push to show want a disgusting habit this is have greatly lowered the rate of smoking. I thought you didn't want to legalize drugs?

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:04 pm

Tobe wrote:Spying? if you are not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about, unless maybe your afraid someone will find out about your drugs or the fact that youâ€™re gay or even cheating on your spouse!

If it's good enough for the KGB and the Taliban it's good enough for Tobe.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:51 pm

It doesn't matter who is taking away our liberty, it just matters that it is being eroded. There are going to be millions of voters who feel that they were duped shortly and it was the same with Bush. After the Great Recovery falls on it's face and the country sees the high inflation rate and devalued dollar maybe we can all come together and vote in a libertarian and understand that senator or congressman does not mean a lifetime position on the take. We need a taxpayer revolt.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:07 pm

Bob Simard wrote:First -

I will never accuse you of 'knowing what the hell you're talking about.' You smoke a lot of dope or what? No short term memory? I was replying to a post THAT YOU WROTE.

I think for the next 4 years you'll spend every waking breath talking about how evil the Republicans are and what an idot Bush was.

My point - they (Republicans) are simply not relevant at this point. Your team has all the power - they can 'correct' things like this very easily and quickly (should they choose to.)

So THAT part of the question to you is real simple -

Will you hold them to the same criteria you hold Bush and the R's?

(I think not. I think you're just like the blind followers on the right that you are so critical of)

Second -

I have been critical of Bush since he took his eye off the ball and shifted our foreign policy to that of an interventionist, versus containment and maintaining regional stability (again - being a greedy capitalist - I could give a rats a$$ what Sadam did within his borders, as long as the oil flows). Once he crosses into a neighbors, different story. All the Nazi Germany - "what if we could have stopped Hitler in 38'" comparisons were laughable.

Further - Bin Laden should have had his a$$ strapped to a water board long ago. We had em all cornered and surrounded and let them go while our troops waited on corrupt tribal leaders to come in and make the bust. Instead - they all slipped across a border we couldn't chase them across.

I have given a lot, A LOT, of dollars and time to the R's over the years. I gave nothing to McCain and have given them nothing the last 2 years.

AND I have been far more critical of the Washington R's (including my guy Wally Herger) the last 6 years. They spent and spent and spent. Spent on things they were not empowered in any way shape of form to spend on. THEY had the power, and used it to stuff pork into their district's pockets.

Bush has long-since been a Keynesian guy. As is Obama. It doesn't work and drives up deficits. Throw in a bunch of new taxes, kills us.

For me - it's real simple. SPENDING LESS than you TAKE IN isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. It's common since.

So Again - will you be critical of Obama and his administration....

"I believe the issue at hand is being "looked into" right now. Now, if he does not overturn it will I call out "Party in Power"? I will call them out like I have seen the republicans call out the idiot they voted in, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. "

........

I guess though that pretty much answers the question though right? You freakin hypocrite

First, talk to me in about 4 yrs about holding the d's to the same criteria I hold the r's to because even though I did not vote for Bush I stood behind him and even defended him in some cases. It became very clear around the 2005, 2006 area that I did not like what was going on. Some things Bush did I liked and some I did not but I did not start harping on him until 2006 or so.

Now if Obama does something I don't like or suspect is wrong will I speak out, most likely not but if starts just totally screwing up the war, the economy, the rights of the people and then I will speak out like I did with Bush.

Now a question for you Bob, did you vote for GW for both terms?

Second, I agree with some of your thoughts on Bin Laden, we lost him because Bush tried to fight the war on the cheap and did not have enough troops to go in and nab him. Then several yrs later disbands the unit who's sole purpose was to find Bin Laden.

One more thing it is still important to "look back" as some would say, because we can learn from the past. Secondly, for those that now have become fiscally responcible all of a sudden I would like to know where they have been.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:20 pm

Thunnus Salmoides wrote:
FishaHallic wrote:
Andy Lippert wrote:..still waitin on that answer there, Hall. Its odd that you're shying away from this issue. I can't imagine why....

What are you talking about boy, I responded with several examples, please read before you get panties in wadd.
Thank you
I think Mr. Lippert meant this.

FishaHallic wrote:
This is the problem as I see it with the republican party. Now I am not blaming you Rod but before you post something like this you need to do some research, like I think Greg said in another post Snopes can be your friend.

How many times on this site and others have you seen posting similar to this that are out right lies and untruths? I for one have seen it too many times for it to be a coincidence. This is a republican tactic, make up a bunch of crap, throw it out there and see what sticks.
They tried the same thing with Obama about being a muslim, a terrorist and a community organizer.
I could have a lot more respect for republican party and it's members if they would not pull these kind of stunts. When we see it so many times how are we suppose to believe anything you guys say? Like the kid who cried wolf, after a while we won't believe anything.

Name a republican who said President Obama was a terrorist. And I don't mean a registered republican or your average Joe "the plumber" republican. I mean an elected or an official representative. If you can't, you are just making up a bunch of crap, throwing it out there and seeing what sticks.
Last chance to answer the question. Or are you a hypocrite who justs "make up a bunch of crap, throw it out there and see what sticks"?
No I really was not comparing you to Timothy McVeigh, but I was pointing out that a lot of people would have said he was a great american hero also, without knowing anything about him.
There you go again. Who thinks Tim Mcveigh was a great american hero? You really should apologize to Andy. It is people like him who allow us the freedom to sit at our computers and express ourselves as we see fit. I hope that you get that but you probably don't.

I don't know what you are asking or saying but the post about Timothy McVeigh was me trying to make a point. The point is a lot of people that knew McVeigh would have thought he was a hero before he blew up the federal building in Oklahoma so in my book he was no hero. Now I don't know Andy or even know if he was in the Marines (he said he was so I will take his word) but if he comes on and his first post in months that I have seen, attacks me about not replying to a post when I already replied at least 2 times then I will attack back. Andy may be a hero and he may not I don't know but I know that he attacks me every time he post and so I will continue to attack him back. If I use his military service to base by attack then so be it because he is using his service to attack me and then expecting me not to respond which is not going to happen.

I have already said in several post that I appreciate Andys service just like I appreciate all the soldiers and sailors. I have also said that if he speaks nicely to me I will respond in kind this is the same offer I will make to anyone but if they attack I will respond.

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:57 pm

Yep - both in 00 and in 04. I went the lessor of two evils route last go round.

For my own part, I've been a supply sider since I walked precincts for Reagan his second term. Fiscal conservative since college economics. George W Bush was not a fiscal conservative. He got the tax cut part - which does pump up the economy by keeping cash circulating through the private sector. A lot of his feel good, do good-er sponsored legislation was crap. (no child left behind? ever hear of statistics W? it might have 'sounded good' but in any population, there will always be a percentage of the populace that is dumb, smart, super smart. AND again, education at that level is the responsibility of the district, then county, then state. Not the Federal Gov.

But I digress..... yes sir, we must learn from history. Scroll down to Greg's post about the Healthcare expenditures slipped into this stimulas bill. the more things change, the more they stay the same. What I've seen from Obama thus far is 'Bush squared in spending' and MUCH better spoken.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:32 pm

Bob Simard wrote:But I digress..... yes sir, we must learn from history.....

The most important thing we can learn from history is that we never learn anything from history. - Aldous Huxley

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:51 pm

Hey Greg,

Did you know that if the Peoples Republic of California mandated a law that required all persons operating a motor vehicle to wear a three point harness system and D.O.T. approved helmet it would save thousands of lives!

Did you know that if our great state banned boating in all water ways countless lives would be spared from the horror of drowning.

Did you know that if our government punished people for being over weight, our obesity problem in this country would solved, could you imagine the health care savings and lives saved!

How about we revoke the driving privilege of all people over the age of 60 because their reflexes are not up to par, it would save lives, right!

Like I said in my earlier post, I donâ€™t smoke, in fact I hate it, but not as much as I hate big brother.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:30 pm

Tobe wrote:Hey Greg,

Did you know that if the Peoples Republic of California mandated a law that required all persons operating a motor vehicle to wear a three point harness system and D.O.T. approved helmet it would save thousands of lives!

Did you know that if our great state banned boating in all water ways countless lives would be spared from the horror of drowning.

Did you know that if our government punished people for being over weight, our obesity problem in this country would solved, could you imagine the health care savings and lives saved!

How about we revoke the driving privilege of all people over the age of 60 because their reflexes are not up to par, it would save lives, right!

Like I said in my earlier post, I donâ€™t smoke, in fact I hate it, but not as much as I hate big brother.

How about I buy you a collection of Doctor Seuss books to take up your spare time? Seems you're into fairy tales.

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:48 pm

Greg_Cornish wrote: How about I buy you a collection of Doctor Seuss books to take up your spare time? Seems you're into fairy tales.

Sounds good to me, but I think The Peoples Republic of California already banned " How The Grinch Stole Christmas"

Thunnus Salmoides · Post by **Thunnus Salmoides** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:23 pm

Tobe wrote:Hey Greg,

Did you know that if the Peoples Republic of California mandated a law that required all persons operating a motor vehicle to wear a three point harness system and D.O.T. approved helmet it would save thousands of lives!

The plan is already in the works. Check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAqPMJFaEdY

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:26 pm

Thunnus Salmoides wrote:
Tobe wrote:Hey Greg,

Did you know that if the Peoples Republic of California mandated a law that required all persons operating a motor vehicle to wear a three point harness system and D.O.T. approved helmet it would save thousands of lives!

The plan is already in the works. Check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAqPMJFaEdY

LOL

Bob Simard · Post by **Bob Simard** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:49 am

Let's see....

Drugs? Outlaw them (of - that's right)

Speed? Make speed limits! - oh yeah.... that to....

More Fishing related? How about the Quaga Mussel in Clearlake? Forget about all the inspections and junk. Why not just pass a law that says no quaga Mussel can live in Clearlake?

these are examples of my entire basis for political opinion these days.... perhaps I'm just getting old and bitter and disallusioned.... no longer buying into the party dream. Becoming more a Liberatarian - who won't get into power in my lifetime - to many stupid sheep following the parties in power.....

You bring up a good point though Tobe - the Government's job is to protect our borders from foreign invaders and to provide an environment in wich we as a people can succeed.

This has been twised so far off the spectrum the A$$holes in Sacramento and Washington believe they must 1) PROTECT US FROM OURSELVES and 2) GARAUNTY EVERYONE'S SUCESS.

My little brother was killed in in 1984, getting thrown from the back of a pickup as it rolled over. I still do not believe it's the government's place to pass a law saying people can't ride in the back of pickups.

Personally, around that same time I had serious personal issues that lead to even more serious financial issues. I picked myself up and with the help of a good women (my wife) put myself through college and today make more money than I ever would have though possible 20 years ago.

More and more and more laws are written and passed.... I see no end. However, rather than withdraw to a cave with my gun, I will succeed and am teaching my children the same - rely on yourself and you'll always be okay......

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:40 pm

FishaHallic wrote: We can go on and on and I am sure you may have a few too.

.

I can go on and on but apparently you can't.

Vince E · Post by **Vince E** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:11 am

"conservative/republicans - have taken away the right to vote for qualified ,ethical , elected officials who put America first ( American citizens, families,workers,taxpayers) instead of selling out to foreign and domestic lobbyists to line their own pockets.
liberal/ Democrats - have taken away the right to vote for qualified ,ethical , elected officials who put America first ( American citizens, families,workers,taxpayers) instead of selling out to foreign and domestic lobbyists to line their own pockets.
Gee! , I see what you guys are talking about now . There is a vast difference between the two."

"It doesn't matter who is taking away our liberty, it just matters that it is being eroded. There are going to be millions of voters who feel that they were duped shortly and it was the same with Bush. After the Great Recovery falls on it's face and the country sees the high inflation rate and devalued dollar maybe we can all come together and vote in a libertarian and understand that senator or congressman does not mean a lifetime position on the take. We need a taxpayer revolt."

".... no longer buying into the party dream. Becoming more a Liberatarian - who won't get into power in my lifetime - to many stupid sheep following the parties in power..... "

These are the only useful quotes I could find in this thread.

When are people going to realize that Americans are, and have been, deliberately polarized into two camps of hate for generations.

Its so when one side has stripped away all of liberties that it can (justifiable by its party ideology that is) we get to switch sides and let the other camp strip away the rest. (greatly simplified of course but that's the gist of it)

The end result is a society completely controlled by govt. and all of the hateful bickering back and forth only means it's working perfectly.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:46 am

Vince E wrote:These are the only useful quotes I could find in this thread.

When are people going to realize that Americans are, and have been, deliberately polarized into two camps of hate for generations.

Its so when one side has stripped away all of liberties that it can (justifiable by its party ideology that is) we get to switch sides and let the other camp strip away the rest. (greatly simplified of course but that's the gist of it)

The end result is a society completely controlled by govt. and all of the hateful bickering back and forth only means it's working perfectly.

Quote For Truth +1

Meet my nephew. I haven't read his last book but will order it soon.

locobass · Post by **locobass** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:59 am

+ 10 on Vince quotes.......

Thunnus Salmoides · Post by **Thunnus Salmoides** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:35 pm

Vince E wrote:

These are the only useful quotes I could find in this thread.

When are people going to realize that Americans are, and have been, deliberately polarized into two camps of hate for generations.

Its so when one side has stripped away all of liberties that it can (justifiable by its party ideology that is) we get to switch sides and let the other camp strip away the rest. (greatly simplified of course but that's the gist of it)

The end result is a society completely controlled by govt. and all of the hateful bickering back and forth only means it's working perfectly.

Conservative/Republicans stand for Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Liberal/Democrats stand for choice, community and the pursuit of fairness.

Libertarian/Libertarian stand for legalizing pot.

"Hateful bickering" as you put it, is the discussion of free people expressing their points of view. I may not agree with what is said but I will always defend their right to say it, no matter how disrespectful they are. It is good to have a heated debate about politics and good for democracy.

Vince E · Post by **Vince E** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:04 pm

I was unaware of the Libertarian stereotype. Gotta read more I guess. I'm not a Libertarian anyway, at least I'm not trying to be one.
I'm just trying to be free and think freely. That was what our founding fathers had in mind, at least for white male property owners. Good thing they left a little wiggle room in the constitution.

I'll always agree with you about the right to say what you want regardless of who might be offended, it's my credo and I'll fight for not only my but your right to say it, but when someone says it for no other reason than to offend is it really productive?

Come on, don't be obtuse. You must know what I meant by hateful bickering was just that. Arguing, mostly driven by complete intolerance of any point of view other than one's own, taken to such an extreme that it becomes a hateful vendetta and the idea of a meeting of the minds is abandoned for the sake of winning the argument.

The difference between heated debate and hateful bickering is that heated debate stands a chance of actually going somewhere.

Thunnus Salmoides · Post by **Thunnus Salmoides** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:12 pm

Vince E wrote:I was unaware of the Libertarian stereotype. Gotta read more I guess. I'm not a Libertarian anyway, at least I'm not trying to be one.
I'm just trying to be free and think freely. That was what our founding fathers had in mind, at least for white male property owners. Good thing they left a little wiggle room in the constitution.

I'll always agree with you about the right to say what you want regardless of who might be offended, it's my credo and I'll fight for not only my but your right to say it, but when someone says it for no other reason than to offend is it really productive?

Come on, don't be obtuse. You must know what I meant by hateful bickering was just that. Arguing, mostly driven by complete intolerance of any point of view other than one's own, taken to such an extreme that it becomes a hateful vendetta and the idea of a meeting of the minds is abandoned for the sake of winning the argument.

The difference between heated debate and hateful bickering is that heated debate stands a chance of actually going somewhere.

Maybe I'm obtuse (no offense taken) but I don't see any hateful bickering here. But I'm glad that the moderators here let controversial topics stay, where other fishing sites will delete "heated debates". Good luck on that third party. Whatever it is.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:46 pm

No Photo Ban in Subways, Yet an Arrest

Article Tools Sponsored By
By JIM DWYER
Published: February 17, 2009

In the map of New Yorkâ€™s most forsaken places, it would be hard to top the Freeman Street stop on the No. 2 line in the Bronx, late on a February afternoon. Around 4:30 last Thursday, Robert Taylor stood on the stationâ€™s elevated platform, taking a picture of a train.

â€œA few buildings in place,â€

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:41 pm

so with bloomberg as Mayor is that article, for dems or Rs.
I thought Bloomberg was a D.

I dont think anyone would want to blowup the 2 train anyway.

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