"Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but....

Moderators: MKA, Caudawg

Grape Ape
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: Le Grand

"Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but....

Postby Grape Ape » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:10 am

Below are the requirements for the FPT. After reading these again for the 100th time....I have mixed feelings. For example....."You are NOT eligible to fish if you have more than once, won over $6,000 (in cash) individually or as part of a team in any one season". I feel if you've won more than $3,000 in any season you are no longer a "Future" Pro. I'm there partner! Geesh Give me a break. If I won a few "decent" tourneys with a field of some good sticks......I'd be embarrassed to fish these types of tourneys. They not only allow winning $6k in a season...you have to do it twice?

Here's the next one that gets me......"You are NOT eligible to fish if you have fished more than once as a pro (boater) in Pro/Am competition". Boy looking at the entries over the last few years.....hmmmm...I'm not to sure these rules are applying to everyone.

Then you have this rule: "You are NOT eligible to fish if you have won more than one prize boat". More than one? Wow! Let me win a boat....I'd never fish as an "amateur" again!
That's just me.

These are just my opinions...everyone has them. I did also notice they didn't know how to spell "amateur" so go figure.

One last thing....I hear ya brother who spoke about letting someone fish as a "Future Pro" even though he's well over qualified but allowed to because he is fishing with his son. Interesting.

Let the hate mail begin.


You are NOT eligible to fish the Future Pro Tour if any of the following apply:

• If you have fished more than once as a pro (boater) in Pro/Am competition.
• If you have more than once, won over $6,000 (in cash) individually or as part of a team in any one season. Money won as a amatuer in Pro/Am competition or specialty events is excluded.
• If you have finished more than once as team Anglers Of The Year in organized (non-club) pro team or amatuer team competition. This applies even if you have fished with different partners.
• If you have finished in the top 5 in the point standings more than 3 times during any pro team season.
• If you have won more than one prize boat, engine, or vehicle while fishing as a pro in any pro/am or pro team competition. Prizes won in specialty events such as Snagproof Open, Vanity Cup, etc., are excluded.
• If you have won more than one prize boat, engine, or vehicle fishing as a amatuer in any circuit.
• If you have won more than one TOC championship in any amatuer or pro team circuit. This applies even if your championship win did not include a boat, vehicle, or engine as first prize.
Harry Markarian

Markarian Investigations @ (209) 777-9696
USAF (Retired)
Merced PD (Retired)
C & C Marine

User avatar
some guy
Posts: 3716
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:39 am
Location: Huntington Beach

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby some guy » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:28 am

another example of why this is lame to me. Have team tournaments and that's it. When the guys that do the team stuff feel they are good enough to jump to the next level then go have a crack at it. To the guys that feel they arent good enough to compete in team tournaments.. DON'T!!!. Pretty simple. All this going back and forth about who is sandbagging and who is fishing with a son is RETARDED. It's fishing, all these orgs need to quit trying to make it seem bigger than it really is. :roll:
Create your own luck.

><> John Curry <><

Robert F
Posts: 1676
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby Robert F » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:34 am

Why is it a problem? You have BASS Elite Series pros winning all the opens? I say if you are seasoned enough to consistently hit it out off the tee you should move to pitched ball. Bass fishing doesn't feel that way. Let the bullys beat on the kids. It makes them feel good to win.........and that's all that matters.

Grape Ape
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: Le Grand

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby Grape Ape » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:45 am

Your right! Not to mention the money many spend to fish these tourneys (pre-fishing, entries, fuel,....etc) and then get a "lame" payout. Not sure what the interest is for "good sticks"????
Harry Markarian

Markarian Investigations @ (209) 777-9696
USAF (Retired)
Merced PD (Retired)
C & C Marine

User avatar
Brian
Posts: 2225
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:07 am

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby Brian » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:14 am

some guy wrote: and who is fishing with a son is RETARDED.


What if your fishing with your son and he IS Retarded?
"Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid."

-John Wayne

User avatar
Rick K of Ca
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:56 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Future Pro

Postby Rick K of Ca » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:49 pm

I don't see the problem. I have never fished the Future Pro. but the ones I have seen like it, the pay back is good and it's will ran.
If you don't like the rules find a tourament that fits your needs.
Rick K of Ca

Wipn_bass24_7
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:38 am
Location: Walnut Creek

Re: Future Pro

Postby Wipn_bass24_7 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:53 pm

I personally would fish future pro only because its not as competitive with me and the non boater/boater. Being a noob-tournament fisherman, its easier to adjust in futurepro when both of you are contributing to the weight.

User avatar
texas john
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:22 pm
Contact:

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby texas john » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:32 pm

Brian wrote:
some guy wrote: and who is fishing with a son is RETARDED.


What if your fishing with your son and he IS Retarded?


My son will be three in April and he is mental ok so im not bashing on that, but I can't wait for the day when he is ready to go out fishing with me. Right now he is a little timid of the noise of the big motor. Hey he is not even three yet so... But I still can't wait!!! I dont know that I would ever fish the FPT with him but would love for him to have the opertunities to see what the tournament atmosphere is all about. But all that will come in time. I figure in ten years he and I will be doing the Hook tournaments together and that will be just great.

LHayes
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 6:34 am

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby LHayes » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:02 pm

*NM*
Last edited by LHayes on Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

D
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:08 pm

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby D » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:03 am

Harry.....your are beating a dead horse, look its just fishing anyway you look at it. Look at the Shasta Pro AM the winner wins the week before fishing a 100% rookie tournament and also wins some other tournament. I say so what more power to him and congrats on the wins. The circuts want fishermen thats what it is all about and if they did have a true rookie/am circut they would not get vey many boats. I would like to see a true team concept or draw concept where there is no distinction between the boater and non boater maybe we all should go back to the straight draw format and fish against each other. Any way thats my 2cents worth, Grape Ape just keep your hooks sharp.

User avatar
sTony
Posts: 4574
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 10:07 pm
Location: Oakley, CA
Contact:

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby sTony » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:39 am

I always get a kick out of posts that start by telling us that the already beat upon, stiff as a corpse horse is going to get further pummeled to death. :lol:

The market place is pretty tore up right now what with anglers of any skill level entering in and being allowed to fish any level of event they choose. Sure some are screening out the most obvious of players. None of them are going to allow Gary Dobyns to enter strictly because he brought Richard with him.

The real problem to my mind is that their isn't a governing body out there to call some of these orgs on their loosely interpreted rules. Criteria in some has been set up so that no one graduates on to the full team circuits and that's where the problems fester and turn into ever dwindling draws and the resulting further reduced paybacks.

I've heard all the justifications in the world for it. Come on down to the 'common man's tournament' and if you are a stud angler but happen to bring a son or daughter you're allowed to fish. It's doesn't matter if you're a former AOY or even major tournament winner anymore, we need the additional boat in the tournament so come on down and fish. The angler that's never entered a tournament but has spent 3 to 5 days a week, every week for the last 25 years fishing the local lake gets in without any scrutiny at all. Even if you win the season ending TOC and rack up some decent money doing it, come on down and try your hand at it another year. Defend your title. Hey, you might not qualify to fish this season but we're only going to graduate you on if you are so good that you can do it a couple years in a row.

It's taken the meat out of the full team circuits and the payback with it. And most all the orgs have acknowledged that trend by either now running 'semi-pro' tournaments themselves or by eliminating their full team circuits all together and strictly running these supposed lower level events. Even for those that are trying to screen their participants there are some that get in that flat out shouldn't be there, either by previous earnings or reputation.

I've been on site to witness guides fishing what's supposed to be a start up rookie league. Go figure.

But it's not solely the fault of the tournament orgs. You'd be amazed who does indeed get turned away by the tournament officials. I've seen it with the WRL and the Average Joe's. Guys that have been tapping into your wallet on a regular basis actually have the nerve to try to enter these events with regularity and get rebuffed. Sometimes it's the anglers themselves that have to realize what they're doing to the sport and not try to get into a tournament that they've got no right to show up to simply because there's a tournament on their local pond.

It's a self defeating prophecy for the orgs that run both semi pro and full team tournaments. And it will continue to be that way because their are no checks and balances in the industry. No one to tap them on the shoulder and say hey, you've got to move people along here. No one has that authority and likely never will.

So the next time you pull up to an under attended full team tournament you'll know exactly why there's simply not as many folks as there used to be and why there won't be much money to win.

The true travesty is that most all of those competing in ANY team tournament out there are semi pro anglers with rare exception. Few are actually managing to make it as true full time professional tournament anglers. And that group isn't likely to grow anytime soon.

Okay, that said, let the pile on commence.

sTony

Noluk
Posts: 314
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 9:44 am
Location: SoCal

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby Noluk » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:15 am

There are two orgs that I know of that can pull in numbers over 100 at their tournaments at any given event. FLW and Future Pro. Obviously enough people like the format about Future Pro enough that they show up, pay an "entry fee" (maybe the amount of the entry fee is a key) and fish. Discussing their rules, which are published just like any other orgs, and picking bones with them is as stupid as saying FLW should allow live bait and trolling. By entering the tournament you agree to the rules they published. Period. Obviously FPT has a formula that is working. It probably isn't perfect but it works for them and their anglers.

I don't think if the FPT disappeared overnight that the next "regular" team circuit with it's 300 to 400 entry fee would suddenly find itself with 100 extra entries. Entries are down on team circuits because in tough economic times people make decisions about where they are going to spend. Obviously many folks have chosen to reduce their team tournament involvment. A more beneficial option would be to consider WHY the FPT is still successful and how those successes could be applied to a normal team trail.

People are going to fish for a number of reasons. Fun and competitivness plays a BIG part of folks plopping down their cash. Normal team circuits draw very good anglers who are usualy regulars at the events. These 20-50 folks all duke it our to make a championship etc. They win each others money etc. If you ever get a normal team circuit with 100 plus boats showing up and I bet you find some more big name anglers showing up as well to try and win a piece of that pie. I know that some touring pros already fish some team events but I guarantee that a circuit drawing 100 boats to a team event would draw the same crowd as the larger pro-ams do because it would make financial sense for them to do so. Big paydays and good sponser exposure means you would be fishing team events against a Dobyns/Dobyns or Tuck/Davis team. In many ways it sounds like an ideal thing except no circuit can get it done. Just how do you get an average team or a husband wife team or a new team to show up 5-7 times a year and put their 300 dollars down so they can pit their 15 hours on the water a month against the 200 hours a month on the water crowd.

Maybe it is time for new ideas and efforts. Golf and bowling a learning person can fish against a pro on the handicap system. Maybe that is what it would take. Off limits didn't seem to make much of a difference to turnout one way or the other. Same with travel costs etc. This discussion should focus on how to make an event where 150 teams come out and fish and everyone feels they have a fair chance to win. Face it, there are not very many people who can pay their dues anymore for 3-4 years getting beaten like a drum while losing 2-3 thousand dollars per circuit in the process. Maybe we need spead our purses that pay back smaller amounts but pay 1 in 3... something different.

And for the record.. never fished a FPT tour event. But they are doing Something right.. people are fishing them and the people who aren't fishing them are attacking them for some reason. That probably means they have some part of the formula correct.

Jon
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:26 am
Location: Modesto,Ca.

Re: I hate to beat a dead horse but. THEN DON'T

Postby Jon » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:30 am

If the people fishing these tournaments don't care about the payout or who they are fishing against why should you? If you don't like it, don't fish it. And definately don't complain about it because it doesn't pertain to you.
Jon

User avatar
sTony
Posts: 4574
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 10:07 pm
Location: Oakley, CA
Contact:

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby sTony » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:32 am

I guess the only thing that has me scratching my head is why would anyone 'pay their dues' by entering tournaments when they can do the same thing and learn how to catch 'em up and not compete at all until they're skill set is ready to do so?

That part sounds a little apples and oranges to me.

And please, by no means am I bashing the FPT. I support them as I do every other org out there. My comments directed at every semi pro org out there be it WON BASS, AC, WRL, FPT, Top Stick Joe's and so on. And the examples/scenarios I used were from tournaments that all of them have run.

I'd also say up front that the decline in the team events started well before the current economic downturn. This economy has only made the slide steeper.

sTony

mac (Doyle McEwen)
Posts: 2755
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:39 am
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby mac (Doyle McEwen) » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:03 am

I definitely agree with your last statement sTony..The economy is not the only problem, but it sure doesn't help any right now..The only team tournaments I have fished is the Hook, Line and Sinker series..For the most part it is a well run novice type event..The FPT seems to draw a fair turnout, so obviously they are doing something right, although I find their eligibility rules somewhat confusing..I have always felt about tournament fishing as I do about riding horses, there isn't a horse that can't be rode and there isn't a rider that can't be thrown..There isn't a pro that can't be beat and there isn't a fisherman that can't beat a pro..Sure, it isn't going to happen everytime you go out, but it could..Each of us just need find a circuit we feel comfortable with and fish it..

mac
Take a kid fishing, and don't forget about us older kids either..

Doug Hodel
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:56 pm

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby Doug Hodel » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:11 am

I haven't really been around very long in terms of fishing tournaments. I fish the FPT with my daughter simply because it's fun for us and I love to compete. For her it's just a day to spend wth dad.

I have never really cared if I am competing against someone who is far superior to me because it only makes me work that much harder and maybe that is just me being a bit naive.

I raced BMX many years ago and there was an open class where you would compete against many skill levels from beginner to expert. I chose to race in the open's because it forced me to try and meet the challenge of competing with someone better. I guess I just feel that you are only going to rise to the level you are competing against.

Now for those people who are cherry pickers, I guess it is about integrity. Some have it others don't. I suppose the responsibility is the organizations calling it a Rookie League, Future Pro, or whatever monicker being used to designate a beginning level to enforce the standards that are laid out.

I guess the real question is, how can you create an environment that allows those team's/angler's to compete against others with the same skill set. (ie. Beginner vs. Beginner, Advanced vs. Advanced, Pro vs. Pro)

Hell, I don't know if I am completley off topic but that is my measley 2 cents.)

User avatar
sTony
Posts: 4574
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 10:07 pm
Location: Oakley, CA
Contact:

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby sTony » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:12 am

Vince is doing a whole heckuva lot right to be sure. He's the best marketer on regional events and he's worked that market for over a decade with a mastery second to none. He's earned everything that the FPT has become through a lot of hard work and he's to be commended for it without a doubt.

His anglers really enjoy the events he puts on otherwise they wouldn't be there and for may of them these sorts of arguments arent' taken all that well and for good reason.

I've got nothing but respect and admiration for the job that he's done.

Course, Vince and I have known each other for over 25 years and well before either of us was involved in the bass fishing industry so he knows how I feel about him.

sTony

User avatar
sTony
Posts: 4574
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 10:07 pm
Location: Oakley, CA
Contact:

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby sTony » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:13 am

Doug,

I don't think you're off topic at all and in fact hopefully taking this thread a positive, constructive direction.

sTony

longshot
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:57 pm

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby longshot » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:15 am

I too fish the FPT events with my kids to get them out in a competitive atmosphere and enjoy the stories, weigh-in ect. Vince is ALWAYS great with kids he always has something special to give to them could be a package of worms or a whole bag of goodies. He makes sure that its a fun event for all and really thats what its all about........ISNT IT?????? If not this circuit really isnt for you!!!!
You know we have allot of GOOD people in this biz and id put Vince at the or near the top...
I hope he is making good money its tough in any Biz and hey if you drive home without placing well and you are smiling and had a great time then he did his job.....
My son (13) biggest thing he shows off is a 4th place plaque that he won at a FPT event :D
LS

Grape Ape
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: Le Grand

Re: I hate to beat a dead horse but. THEN DON'T

Postby Grape Ape » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:46 pm

Boy did a lot of you kinda got of topic here. Then we have this "hater" who throws a dart from way out in the bleacher seats =
Jon wrote:If the people fishing these tournaments don't care about the payout or who they are fishing against why should you? If you don't like it, don't fish it. And definately don't complain about it because it doesn't pertain to you.
Jon


The "payout" really had next to nothing to do with my post. Heck I could really careless about the payouts. Oh and your way off base about this not pertaining to me. I have fished this circuit and select not to fish it anymore. Why you ask? Because I have seen things I didn't appreciate about how they operate and treat one person differently than the others. I think I'll leave it at that.

My true purpose of my post (and maybe I was misleading....obviously) was about the entire qualification part of this circuit and why some people who obviously shouldn't be fishing it are allowed to. I wouldn't call this a "complaint" as you put it. Just a observation.

You are right about one thing though....."If you don't like it, don't fish it." I haven't for sometime now and won't. Enjoy donating.
Harry Markarian

Markarian Investigations @ (209) 777-9696
USAF (Retired)
Merced PD (Retired)
C & C Marine

Trackerbass
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:39 pm

Re: I hate to beat a dead horse but. THEN DON'T

Postby Trackerbass » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:43 pm

I believe the reason for the decline in pro-team attendance is there are just too many of them. There are so many regions or trails that they've sliced their pie into too many pieces. It's starting to happen to the semi-pro teams now ,too. It also seems like all the pro "trails" are on one or maybe two lakes. How is this a trail?Sure they have a travelers division where you travel around fishing against all the one lake wonders who won't leave their comfort zone. The best thing I liked about fishing the FPT was the schedule. They travel from Shasta to the motherlode. You have to be well rounded to be successful. If you really want to get good at this game, you can't do it on one body of water. I wonder how a true pro-team CIRCUIT would do?With a different lake every month.I think it could do pretty well, but you would have to get rid of all the one lake regions or the zip codes will never leave.
Just my two cents.

basshol
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:39 pm

Re: I hate to beat a dead horse but. THEN DON'T

Postby basshol » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:04 pm

well i can say theres less team cicuits now than three years ago so that bull no folsom bass no new bass no 100 percent shall i go on less ac teams less won bass teams,ive had partners who now fish fpt only true cost less ,but also guys who dont fit the guide lines why no one regulates. bottom line. if the rules were set in stone some of those people would have no chose but to fish the reg. teams where they are rightly belong.im a nobody but i aint scared to fish against anybody,

User avatar
Dom
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 3:21 am
Location: Delta Rat

Re: "Future" Pro? I hate to beat a dead horse but

Postby Dom » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:49 pm

I'v Fished the Future pros for years all of em from WCB back in the day to 100%,Westernbass, and Vince's FPT. First I will say this, one of the first lesson in tournament fishing is learning to fish against the fish and the clock not the other anglers. With that being said this is a team event not pro against pro.

This is a stepping stone so you can better your skills and the your sixth sense kind of like knowing when your dropshotting or split shotting and you can pick up the rod tip and feel its a fish without the bite. Its practice, So what who cares that you might be fishing against a team or a guy thats won a boat? How are you ever gonna get better? By first out fishing the rest, then one day out fishing the guy who won the boat.

I've fished "OPENS" Like the Snag Proof ,Lucky Craft,etc.. against Kent Brown, Steve Sapp, Bobby Barrack,Skeet Reese,Dee Thomas,Byron Velvick,etc...Did I think I was going to beat these guys? Yea maybe, did I? Nope but I learned from it.

I Say quit whinning about who your fishing against and go out and get 5 hawgs That Dock Talk can really get in your head and mess up a great day. :wink:


Tight Lines Dom
Tight Lines Dom


Return to “Fishing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: coyote268, monte300 and 17 guests