New Melones--Is this Right?

[birdi23nls]

First of all, those of you that fish New Melones, do you think its right or even legal what is going on at that lake. For those of you who might not know, Mew Melones is ran by the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers. Now they are charging boaters a $8.00 fee to use the lake for the day, when for as long as I can remember, everyone got in free of charge because our tax dollars already are being used to keep up the lake. I mean, technically, it is our lake.

Second, we went to Melones this past week and payed the man our 8 dollars to fish. When we get to the ramp, my uncle had left his GPS and Fish Finder on from the past trip and the battery was completly dead. We go back up to see if the guy will give us are $8 dollars back, since we never got the opportunity to use the facility. He answers, "no, it is already in the computer." Well, I'm unhappy at this point...and lets just leave it at that?

Because I am no legal expert, and not aware of all the laws involving this...i have a few questions:

How can they legally charge us to use the lake when we are already paying and own it?

If it is not completely on the up and up, is there anything we can do to change it?

Should the man at the window gave my $8.00 back? Was he required to give my $8.00 back?

I'm a little upset about the whole situation, and wonder why others seem to be okay with it (the fee that is)? It really is not the $8.00, it's the principle of the matter.

[CHUG BUG]

i hate paying fees for anything! however, i think the $60.00 annual fee was very fair, and i bought one the first day they were available. charging fees is a good idea if the money is used properly. i don't mind paying a fee to have the restrooms clean, the trash emptied and the launching facilities taken care of. i quit buying an annual fee at mcclure and pedro because the cost became ridiculous foravehicle and boat.
as far as the guy giving you back your 8 bucks.....he's probably just doing his job. you could try and file a gripe with someone, and i bet you could get your fee returned. but ultimately its not his decision.
and not to stir up anything, but why would you scrap a fishing day because of a gps? if i got to the ramp and my outboard wouldnt fire, AND my trolling motor was dead, i would start paddling!!
to sum it up for me, a fair fee for the use of a great lake is just part of life.

[Richard - Sonora]

I live in Sonora and have fished Melones often over the last 20 years or so. During that time it became apparent to me that the no-fee status of Melones, while a direct benefit to me, had caused the low-lifes to establish a habit of burglary (breaking and entering) of vehicles and repeated vandalism of both park property and vehicles and boats. Noise, fights and intimidation had become regular occurences.
Beyond that, if you consider all of the other bodies of water in the area, Melones is still cheaper than Pedro, McClure, Salt Springs, Commanche, Pardee, Amador and others. It is about the same as Tulloch where the public launch ramp at south shore leaves a lot to be desired. The only exception to the above is New Hogan which, at last glance, charges $4 per day. The annual pass (good for twelve months from issue) is a bargain is you plan to fish Melones regularly. For us seniors, a $10 investment in a multi-agency senior card will allow you a 50% discount on the annual pass.
There was a considerable uproar around here when the fees were first instituted in '08. However, most thoughtful folks now agree that the results were worth the change.
Richard - Sonora

[Grape Ape]

CHUG BUG I'm with you. Paying $8 is pretty cheap as compared to many of our other lakes ($14 for Pedro & $13 for Mclure). Yes, I realize these lakes are not owned by "us" or U S Army Corp. of Engineers however, if these small fees help keep the facilities functional and clean I'm all for it! Eastman is a lake owned by "us" or U S Army Corp. of Engineers and have charged a fee for as along as I can remember. I hate paying anything myself but let's look at it another way.....could you imagine how crowded and out of control "our" lakes would be if it was free? If raising prices keeps the lakes less crowded and cleaner I'm all for it. Oh and "technically" it is not our lake. It belongs to the government (which means you have no say whatsoever.... ) and believe it or not many people would like to see entrance fees for the above purposes.

Jared as for entering then exiting asking for your $8 back.....seems to me that was your problem and not the guy at the gate. He probably doesn't have the authority to return funds. Write to the U S Army Corp. of Engineers if you want your $8 back that badly. If not, just think of it as donating a few rolls of toilet paper to your fellow owners of this lake.

[birdi23nls]

As stated above, and I should reiterate, I don't care about the $8. It again, is the principle. And yes GrapeApe, it is our lake and yes, other guy who’s name escapes me at the moment, it belongs to "us," all of us. National forest, BLM, Wilderness, Army Corp of Engineers, all public property.

Yes, $60 is a fair price to use the lake for a year. Yes, $8 for day use is not a big deal. Yes, maybe legally, they can charge a fee for using the facility. But is it right? How many times are the American people and outdoorsman going to get screwed by different government programs and groups before someone says, enough is enough.

You pay income tax, property tax, sales tax, sales tax on your boat, luxury tax on your boat, buy a fishing license, a delta stamp, steelhead card, 2 pole stamp, etc. Our tax dollars go to pay fish and game and the park rangers that work there. Our money goes to the workers that maintain the dam and the roads at that lake. Then they turn around and charge us for the electricity that the dam creates. Now, they are going to charge us to use the water that the dam holds back. Trout plants are decreasing, Californians were danger close to losing dove season this year, we can't shoot lead, etc. Our government takes things away from the outdoorsman and then charges us more for their crappy services.

Luckily, we have elected a real reformer in Barack Obama, he will CHANGE all of this.

[iwillkechu]

I live in Sonora too, and work in local Law Enforcement. I can say that the fees for the lake are long overdue. I can't tell you how many fights, vehicle burglaries and general mischief used to happen there before the fee was imposed. On any given day you could go down to the ramp/parking lot area and just see garbage (both literally and figuratively). I am all for the fee. I have noticed a drastic change in the area; both the people and the environment. $60/year?? That comes to $5/month. I think that is minimal for how much I go there and the services now being implemented.

As far as the guy in the booth... Just a few weeks ago I went there with my brother. I didn't have my anual pass yet but we needed to get my boat off the trailer to do some trailer repairs and make sure the motor was running right...etc. I just told the lady at the booth on the way in that we weren't fishing and we'd be back in less than an hour. She said, "No problem" and let us in without a fee. Granted, we did not pay and then try to get money back but I think they are understanding enough if they can be.

And the last thing... Are you seriously going to scrap a day of fishing, or even a few hours of fishing because your GPS doesn't work?? Either you are "that good" of a fisherman or you're "that bad."

[birdi23nls]

Gps and fish finder are hooked up to the cranking battery. Gps was left on, which means the cranking battery did not have power to start the motor. Trolling motor batteries did not have enough cold craking amps to jump the outboard. Sorry, I assumed everyone would get that, but you know what happens when you assume.

[Grape Ape]

you have some nerve, in my humble opinion, coming on a forum, and discussing how you don't mind paying for something. Why don't you return everyone’s money you took and swimbaits you basically took from the nice folks on swimbaitnation, then you can give me advice. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

What the hell is that all about? "Swimbait Nation"? Obvously you are confused or smokin crack.

As for my opinion......we all have one. If you don't like mine....to damn bad and move on. Don't take stabs at people for no reason.

[birdi23nls]

Maybe Grape Ape is a more popular name than I thought. If you are not that Grape Ape, I apologize. But if this is not you, you should know somone with the same name and other names on other sites including basshunter is getting a real bad rap for screwing people out of there baits and money. Some of the guys are sending certified letters and taking him to court. I will edit my previous statement out of my response.

Again, sorry

[birdi23nls]

Look I'm not trying to start a fight with anyone, I just needed to vent. I'm sick of being nickled and dimed and dollared to death by the government. I'm sick of paying more money for services that our tax dollars are already suppose to pay for. I'm sick of getting it coming and going.

I'm paying for the harvest mouse to be saved in san fran freako. I'm paying for tattoo removal, a train from vegas to L.A., and for Nanci Palosi to take a military jet home every weekend. Now I have to pay to fish on a lake that is built on Army Corp of Engineer land. What's next, paying to flyfish the river, an access fee to hunt on national forest and BLM, or how about a yearly pass to take a walk and use the bathroom in a public park?

The sad thing is, the answer to those questions might be yes.

[Tin Can]

you have some nerve, in my humble opinion, coming on a forum, and discussing how you don't mind paying for something. Why don't you return everyone’s money you took and swimbaits you basically took from the nice folks on swimbaitnation, then you can give me advice. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

What the hell is that all about? "Swimbait Nation"? Obvously you are confused or smokin crack.

As for my opinion......we all have one. If you don't like mine....to damn bad and move on. Don't take stabs at people for no reason.

Some dude on Swimbait nation and other sites using various names including "Grape Ape" is being accused of ripping people off. I read all of the crap over there.

Anyone who posts here should know it's not you though, he's in a different state.

You might look into changing your name though, some idiot is ruining the grape ape name.

[Grape Ape]

Jared.......Phew, appology accepted you had me all screwed up.

You've got a PM.

[Grape Ape]

Tin Can....I inquired on how to change my screen name monthes ago however, I never received any response on how to do so. Guess I'm either stuck with it or need to log in as a new member.

[MARK D. INMAN]

NEW MELONES IS NOT >> ARMY CORP. NEW MOLONES IS >>> BUREAU OF RECEMALTION Your lucky you only have to pay 8.00 a day or 60.00 dollars a year for a yearly pass. EASTMAN, HENSLEY, SUCCESS ARMY CORP. day use is $4.00 and $30..00 a year for a yearly pass.

[Lugnut]

I was told by a DFG Officer patroling there a few weeks back that all the money collected stays at the facility to cover operating expenses, improvemnets, etc. That being said, I think it is something that had to happen. Sucks, yes but had to happen sometime.

As far as the guy at the shack not giving you a refund, that sucks too. I work for an independant business person at a facility owned by a City. Once the money goes in the drawer, it stays in the drawer. Yes, it pisses people off and I don't always agree with it. One of the reasons is it keeps the employees from voiding out sales and pocketing the cash. Once again, it sucks but I am sure they have there reasons behind it. I do understand your frustration though, I paid my $4.00 to fish Hogan about a month ago. Went to launch the boat and the docks were pulled out of the water. After a couple days of calling I was told they are pulled during storms for fear of the cables snapping. No problem, a sign would have been nice but hey it happens. When I asked if I could just write down that I had paid on Tuesday when I headed up that weekend for my club tournament I was told "NO, once you past the kiosk and enter the park there are no refunds".

[birdi23nls]

NEW MELONES IS NOT >> ARMY CORP. NEW MOLONES IS >>> BUREAU OF RECEMALTION Your lucky you only have to pay 8.00 a day or 60.00 dollars a year for a yearly pass. EASTMAN, HENSLEY, SUCCESS ARMY CORP. day use is $4.00 and $30..00 a year for a yearly pass.

I know without a doubt that Melones was Army Corp of Engineers, whether or not the state changed the name so they could collect money...i don't know. Ya, I sure feel lucky alright, as I'm being bent over by my own government everytime I turn around. Maybe I should take a trip to Vegas this weekend instead of fishing, since I feel so lucky. The sky somehow seems bluer, the birds chirping outside seem to sing an enchanting tune. Yet, when I bring myself back to the real world, I still feel like I'm getting scewed.

[MARK D. INMAN]

TRY AGAIN CALL THE MARINA ON THE LAKE AND ASK THEM THERE NOT ARMY CORP FACTS ARE FACT YOUR ARENT STRIGHT. NOTHING IS FREE WHEN IT COME TO FISHING ANY LAKE IN CA. FEDERAL OR STATE HOW DO YOU THINK THEY OPERATE THE LAKES WEATHER THE MONEY STAYS THERE OR IS SPENT ELSE WHERE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER YOUY WANT TO FISH THEN YOU PAY SIMPLE

[Ray Vanacore]

$8.00 Dollars is pretty darn cheap as we at Folsom Charge $15.00 for Boat and Car. No matter who owns the lake be it the state or the government they have the right to charge an entrance fee. What surprises me is why they haven't started charging a long time ago. As for getting your money back good luck there . If you dont want to pay then go somewhere that dont charge, if there is such a place anymore.Any more you have to pay to play.
Just my $.02.
Ray Vanacore

[birdi23nls]

One more time, I don't want my money back, I could care less about the $8.00, so we can stop beating that dead horse, hopfully...and yes fishing at many lakes is free. Get your facts strait. You can fish lakes in the serrias all year long for free. They have bathrooms and ramps as well. Don't come on here and pretend that I'm some retard because I think it's wrong to charge people to use public property that is already funded by our tax dollars. I said that melones was Army Corp, if it is not now, it's news to me.

If some of you all, who argue in favor of giving more money to government, (whether it be through an increased progressive tax, or through paying to use public property) you are probably the same folks that believed Joe Biden was right when he said, "paying more taxes is patriotic." At this point, it is obvious, we will never agree. This country was founded on the premise of not paying taxes and not getting screwed over by the government. Great Britain tried to screw our founding fathers and then our founding fathers screwed them. Why do you think we are having modern day tea parties throughout the country as we speak? I'll tell you why, people are tired taking it from every direction. And so should we, no matter how cheap it is.

[Ray Vanacore]

Here you go.

The lake was constructed by the US Army Corps of Engineers and transferred to the Bureau of Reclamation shortly after its completion in 1980. Cultural resources affected by the project were transferred to the Department of the Interior with the Heritage Conservation and Recreation Services (HCRS, a short-lived organization that was established during the Carter administration) responsible for the archaeological mitigation program. New Melones is a unit of the Central Valley Project.

Ray vanacore

[MARK D. INMAN]

Nobodys calling you anyything the fact of the matter is state or federal land they can charge you to go on to there land. Army corp is federal land. Bureru of recemaction is state land. And eastman and hensley have been charging for years now too get into both lake both army corp AND rules are rules and we must fellow them these lake are here for us no matter. The goverment cant keep fittin the bill so we can just go fishing for free. IF I HAD MY WAY THEY WOULD BE PAYING $18.00 FOR DAY USE FISHING AT EASTMAN TROPHY LAKE YOU PAY TROPHY PRICES.

[Ray Vanacore]

Also nowhere in my post did I refer to you as a retard .All I said was, if you don't want to pay then go where you don't have to. If there is lakes that dont charge .
Ray Vanacore

[Grape Ape]

I have a suggestion....kill this thread. It's going nowhere.

[Johnny C]

You also owe me a 20$ fee for fishing on my lake. Check or money order is fine. I do not take credit cards..

[birdi23nls]

Ray Vanacore, MARK D. INMAN

Yes, you did not call me a retard, and that was a poor choice of words on my part. However, it did seem that it was implied by telling me to find some lake where they don't charge, or the comment that suggested that all lakes in California charge for use. Or how about the comment that said to fish you have to pay. All of these statements are not true...they are false.

These statements led me to believe that you thought you were making a definitively true or correct statement, which clearly did not occur. Therefore painting me with the wide stroke brush, of idiot or retard for not understanding you're incorrect argument. I also must apologize, yet again, for taking offense when to offend was not intended. However, you must know that you do not have to pay to fish most public lakes, and never had to pay to fish melones until last year. And Mark, if you want them to pay more money to fish at Eastman, you should lead by example and start giving them $18 when you go and fish the lake. I'm sure they will take your donation. Plus, that way you can feel better about doing your part to raise fees on lakes that fish better than others.

[MARK D. INMAN]

I WOULD GLADY PAY THAT AMOUNT TO ENTER THE LAKE IF THEY DID RAISE THE ENTERY FEE I KNOW WHAT IVE DONE FOR BOTH THE LAKE BY HAULING XMAS TREE UP THERE FOR SEVERAL YEARS MONEY OUT OF MY OWN POCKET WITH COMPANY TRUCKS I BARROWED FROM SCHOETTLER TIRE IN MADERA FUEL I PAID FOR OUT OF MY OWN POCKET THE LUNCHES I BOUGHT FOR THE OTHER DRIVERS THAT HELP ME GET THOSE TREE TOO THE LAKES NOW THE MARINES DO THE SAME THING I WAS DOING BACK THEN IT WASNT MADERA BASS CLUB OR KERMAN BASS CLUB OR CLOVIS BASS CLUB IT WAS ME DOING IT EVERY YEAR BACK IN THE 70'S AND EARLY 80'S GRANT IT MADERA BASS CLUB DID PLANT FLORIDA BASS IN EASTMAN IN 80 BUT NONE OF THE CLUB KEPT UP WITH EITHER LAKE THE KERMAN CLUB DID SOME CAGES TO PUT BRUSH IN A FEW YEARS BACK BUT NOT MUCH ELSE HAS HAPPEND A EITHER LAKE SINCE. SO WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE ATTACK ME ABOUT POSTING WHAT I DO UP THERE THE FISH I CATCH AND THE REPORTS I DO THEY CAN POUND SAND THEY KNOW WHERE THEY CAN FIND ME. $18.00 DOLLAR A DAYS NOTHING $200.00 A YEAR ILL GO FOR THAT. THAT WILL STOP THE TRAFFIC I BET And for paying my dews at both lakes ive been there and done that.

[barse41]

i wouldnt mind paying more if were helpling out the lake. look at what comanche is doing, that lake is awsome

[MARK D. INMAN]

In the case of these two lakes here eastman and hensley the local clubs here have become much larger clubs than they use to be and more competitive and they have shyed away from giving up time to do project at either lake. madera bass shut down in 1988 or 89 and the other 3 clubs are fairly large clubs that only fish the lakes maybe once a year on there schedules so they pretty much dont have the time or cant find the time for doing any projects at the lakes anymore. If anythings being done it mostly done by lake staff.

[JTW32]

Jared are you that mad about $8 or are you just venting because there is a democrat in office. It sounds to me, your more upset about Obama.

I agree with everyone else, this is cheap so don't complain. If you don't like it then don't go there. I know you are saying its the principle but everyone else is right, by paying a small fee it does keep trouble makers out and hopefully keeps the place cleaner for all of us to use. End this thread!!!

[CN]

Boy what a bunch of funny stuff. The first time I fished New Melones the place was barren. We pulled up in the Motor Home and boat and couldnt figure out where to pay?

Well heck we put up camp and sure as hell a Ranger came up and told us the lake was not ready for overnite camping yet. He told us where to park out on some highway that lead to some frog jumping contest and we could stay there.

Heard nothing but Harley's ALL NIGHT going by but had one fun trip. That was back around 85-86 if I remember correct.

And this new fee just came about,I have never been to a lake since that did not charge me something.

But I do see his point and it's a valid one if you think about it. Try finding out how to access ALL the BLM land that's documented. Weve lost some and what I could never figure out was why some of it is surrounded by Private land??

[Oldschool]

You are lucky; the dam being a power generation lake is operated by The Bureau of Reclamation. They could use the US Forest Service at the gate and CA parks and recreation to take your entry fee and parking, then you would be paying fees to all 3 agencies, to use your or our lake. We are all paying taxes to support these agencies and those costs are going up, along with the fee's to maintain facilities.
Lets claim that hydro-electric power is green and get a tax credit for letting the government use our water. I forgot we just pay; for the dam, the land, the electric power and the wages and benefits. Lets vote for the props so we can pay more for a longer time. Gotta love our state and the greedy politicians that run it.
Tom