A couple of honest questions for everyone.

2ndsuks · Post by **2ndsuks** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:22 pm

No name calling, clip and pasting, or critiquing of grammar.

In your opinions and in your own words, what were the three most significant reasons for our current economic crisis?

This is what I believe:

1. Government regulations: The government regulated lenders to make home loans to people that could not afford them, when the foreclosures started coming in by the droves our banks collapsed and so did our economy.

2, Economic cycling: For more than a decade we had one of the most robust economies in history, when the end of that cycle collided with mass foreclosures it was disastrous.

3. Greed and poor speculation: Practically anyone that could sign their name could get home loan and practically every lender would sign them. Junk loans and borrowing against your mortgage equity became the rule of thumb for most people because we could always count on the real estate prices to go up but we all know what really happened.

Skeeterman · Post by **Skeeterman** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:02 pm

#1 and 3 started this mess.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:56 am

1. Just after the Great Depression there were regulations put in place to prevent what is happing now. I will paraphrase the regulations = each bank had to hold 20% in cash of the amount they loaned i.e. if the bank only had $200,000 in cash then that bank could only loan one million. That was the reason to buy a house it took 20% down to buy a house. That way the Back could go pass the one million and still loan money because the buyer would have to have the 20%. The other regulation was the same thing but with Bonds. You had to have 20% cash or in reserves. That way no one could buy more then they could afford. This two regulations were removed to allow banks to loan more then what was in their reserves and people without the means to buy more then they could afford. After removing the regulations the Federal Reserve to make the system work allowed debt to be sold as a commodity on the spot market.
2. The failure of our two party system! One party removed the regulations and the other did not stop them.
3. The ethics of our Government.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:46 pm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1246575 ... torialPage

2ndsuks · Post by **2ndsuks** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:30 am

Maybe the "no name calling" rule should be be removed from this thread.
It's like putting a muzzle on Fish, Greg and Jeff.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:49 am

Ok, I will answer this question without any deragatory name calling.

The 3 reasons we are in this mess are........

1. George

2. W.

3. Bush

, now if someone called me George W. Bush, those would be fighting words but since you right wingers love him they should not bother you.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:41 am

FishaHallic wrote:Ok, I will answer this question without any deragatory name calling.

The 3 reasons we are in this mess are........

1. George

2. W.

3. Bush

, now if someone called me George W. Bush, those would be fighting words but since you right wingers love him they should not bother you.

Truly sad and pathetic if you believe Bush and his administration is the sole reason. In your case maybe pathetic is the wrong choice of words. Given your inabilty to EVER bring forth any intelligent points other than repeating our previous president's name, you are simply simple-minded and obviously unable to grasp the bigger picture.

Your powers of intelligent discussion and reasoning are laughable.

Calling you George Bush is an insult to our previous president no need to lower him to your moronic level.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:00 pm

Sounds like I struck a nerve. Why all the insults, can't you take a little sarcasm?

Of course I know it's not alls Georgie boys fault, you have to take some of the blame for your vote for him.

And of course there are many more reasons, too many to name but yes I think your lover GW is one of the main reasons. His single mindedness and inability to see anything other than the war in Iraq proves he was not one of our finest, but he is about as good as your side can muster.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:24 pm

FishaHallic wrote:but yes I think your lover GW is one of the main reasons.

Why is it that liberals immediately revert to sexual innuendos in their vapid arguments?

It shows a distinct lack of intelligence and ability to make substantive points. This would be like me claiming Fish and TrollAttack are lovers in one of my posts. (Which based on the reasoning abilities demonstrated by each wouldn't be too far from the ACTUAL truth, IMO.) And not something I would ever do, unlike the moronic liberals (like Fish and TrollAttack) that post here.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:10 pm

The reason I said and have said "your lover GW Bush" is because you get so very angry when someone says something bad about him to the point I feel that you have a strange "love" of the man.

Now, lighten up a little your guys will be back by 2016...............maybe.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:14 pm

Angry?

LOL

Trust me you wouldn't like me when I get angry.

The proper emotion is more along the lines of pity.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:32 pm

Oh, tough guy...........got it.

Skeeterman · Post by **Skeeterman** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:24 am

Be back 2016? The way oduma's going it will be sooner than that.

Bass Attack · Post by **Bass Attack** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:56 am

1. George Bush
2. Dick Cheney
3. All the moronic uneducated voters that put Georgey and Dicky into office and now stand back, point the finger at Obama, and accuse him of getting us into this mess.

Face it folks the problems we are now suffering with came about as a direct result of 8 years of republican leadership.....I predicted that Bush would tank the US economy if he got the presidency, when he first started running back before the 2000 election and I was right on the mark.

All the angry McCain and Palin supporters here should be begging me for my opinion since my insights have proven to be far superior to the insights of anyone that voted for Georgey and Dicky.

Vince E · Post by **Vince E** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:48 am

It seems those hellbent to defend the doctrines of the hard left (or to appear that way just to get the goat of those hellbent to the hard right) are unwilling to acknowledge the effect #1 of the OP had on this disaster.

#2 has been going on for a lot longer than a decade, cycling that is.

#3 is the reason I won't call myself a Republican or a conservative. They seem to believe that unchecked greed running rampant is a positive thing.

The bottom line is that the clash of "the two ideologies" is exactly what causes severe economic cycling and what set up the perfect storm conditions for we have now. And the economic landscape that has resulted has set up the perfect storm conditions for the complete removal of individual responsibility and liberty.

Is it being done by design? I don't know but if it is they sure took to heart the oldest military strategy in the book- divide and conquer.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:28 am

Bass Attack wrote:All the angry McCain and Palin supporters here should be begging me for my opinion since my insights have proven to be far superior to the insights of anyone that voted for Georgey and Dicky.

Says the liberal moron who cannot distinguish between flags and clothes.

LOL

That's rich

Troll go back under your bridge with Barney, Nancy Harry and Chris.

Bass Attack · Post by **Bass Attack** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:56 am

It is so good hearing from true Bush supporter.....

Are you proud you voted for him?

Are you proud of the economic destruction your vote resulted in?

Are you proud of all the money that your boy wasted for the unnecessary war in Iraq?

Are you proud of the way Georgey and company with your help systematically took away the rights of the average American under the Patriot Act?

I'm sure you'll answer yes to all these questions, proving my basic point that to a neocon ideals are more important than reality...Face it your party had the oval office for 8 years and during that time the country was severely damaged....Congrats you and your ilk caused that damage by voting for Bush, not once but twice! Of course being a typical republican, you won't take any responsibility. Your response will be something like "Well the congress was under democratic control for 2 years" or the ever popular "Yes sir I sure didn't agree with the stuff Bush did but it wasn't as bad as the stuff Clinton did..."........Yeah the stuff Clinton did when we were enjoying an incredible level of prosperity!

If you want to see an instant replay of the prosperity we enjoyed under the Clinton administration, just wait until Obama's programs start producing fruit....

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:38 am

Bass Attack wrote:If you want to see an instant replay of the prosperity we enjoyed under the Clinton administration, just wait until Obama's programs start producing fruit....

Sorry troll there won't be any fruit - AT ALL.

The current administration is ALREADY noting how they've "misread things" - par for the course given the incompetence we have with the rookie in the Whitehouse and the partisan administration. The plain and simple fact that this administration has ALREADY misread arguably most critical economic crisis our country has ever faced is unforgivable. U N F O R G I V A B L E.

I will admit that I am surprised you'd insult the Clinton administration by comparing it to the current inept, inexperienced administration we are suffering through already. Signing bills that no one has fully read, "misreading" critical situations, breaking key campaign promises, increasing our debt by historic amounts...etc etc....

Fruit? LOL

Keep dreaming.

Vince E · Post by **Vince E** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:58 am

What part of "divide and conquer" didn't you understand?

Bass Attack · Post by **Bass Attack** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:37 am

Sorry troll there won't be any fruit - AT ALL.

The current administration is ALREADY noting how they've "misread things" - par for the course given the incompetence we have with the rookie in the Whitehouse and the partisan administration. The plain and simple fact that this administration has ALREADY misread arguably most critical economic crisis our country has ever faced is unforgivable. U N F O R G I V A B L E.

I will admit that I am surprised you'd insult the Clinton administration by comparing it to the current inept, inexperienced administration we are suffering through already. Signing bills that no one has fully read, "misreading" critical situations, breaking key campaign promises, increasing our debt by historic amounts...etc etc....

Fruit? LOL

Keep dreaming.

Climb down off your high horse, wanna be tough guy....Your opinion on this subject means less than nothing....You and your party of morons (the republicans) had their shot for 8 years and those 8 years were a dismal failure.....The country is in the toilet right now and you only have yourself to blame.....Better hurry up and respond before Sean Hannity comes on. You don't want to miss his show, or you'll have no talking points for later....Ha Ha Ha Ha...Now go dry those tears of frustration....

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:55 am

Bass Attack wrote:Climb down off your high horse, wanna be tough guy....Your opinion on this subject means less than nothing....You and your party of morons (the republicans) had their shot for 8 years and those 8 years were a dismal failure.....The country is in the toilet right now and you only have yourself to blame.....Better hurry up and respond before Sean Hannity comes on. You don't want to miss his show, or you'll have no talking points for later....Ha Ha Ha Ha...Now go dry those tears of frustration....

I didn't state any opinions bright eyes. But I cannot say I'm surprised YOU missed that given I'm conversing with a hapless troll who cannot even distinguish between a simple flag and a shirt

Your futile idiocy slays me.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:21 am

There are three areas of law.

The Constitution

Statutory Law

Regulatory or administrative law

The Constitution is the guide which all Statutory laws must follow. Statutory laws are laws made by legislation

Administrative laws are provisions on how to enact and enforce the Statutory law.

Al Qaeda and the Taliban are our people. We created them. The U.S. Government found, recruited and financed Osama Bin Laden to fight the Russians so they wouldn't get a foothold in Afghanistan. Bin Laden would not exist today without Jimmy Carter and Ronald Regan.

After the Russians were defeated, Bin Laden saw an opportunity to fill their void and did. Then the U.S. went after Bin Laden and tried to kill him. Then Bin Laden turned his attention to us.

Then he planned and initiated the 911 tragedy at the WTC. So we essentially, over a period of time bombed ourselves.

After 911 the economy started going in the tank so Bush, in a rush to save our economy from collapsing gutted all administrative laws dealing with the banking system that had successfully governed our banking system for years. He also turned over all banking powers to the Federal Reserve to created a complete new set of administrative banking and economic law.

He and Cheney then whipped up a story to invade Iraq and planned on moving through and wiping out both Iraq and Iran. They never got to Iran.

The democrats, out of fear of being called unpatriotic in a time of great national pride and want of revenge, COMPLETELY rolled over and gave Bush everything he wanted because let's face it. It's all about getting re-elected. Then when things got bad they tried to back track and say they were fooled.

Then we as a country ran up a war debt we can never repay. We changed our banking system to a mortgaged back system and sold that paper to nearly every nation in the world and entrenched them in our economy. We've borrowed all our own money, everyone else's money, and have a consumer society that supports most labor in other countries. We have exported all our labor and all our industry to other countries who need us to buy their products back to support them because they don't pay the people who manufacture them enough to buy them.

But we no longer have decent jobs, so for years we've been buying it all on credit.

Now all our chickens have come home to roost.

We have a president who is and empty shirt, but was the better of two evils.

We are on the brink of disaster and we have no way out because the people who are trying to figure out how to correct things have no clue about how to straighten out or run the economy. They are all empty shirts.

We elect people who raise the most campaign money. The person with the most presidential type experience was beaten in the primary because she had a horseshit campaign team.

If you want to find blame for our biggest problem today, go back to 1948 and look at the way the English and the Americans divided up the Middle East.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:17 pm

Not exactly. We could have handled the war debt just like we always have. We could not handle the banking, mortgage, insurance crisis on top of allowing massive dollars to go to oil speculators on top of the war debt. Add Wall Street cons and the collapse of the market which robbed people of half of their investments and we are just in a pickle. We can blame just about everyone including ourselves but in reality this was a perfect storm created by greed and unfortunately both democrats and republicans have to pay the piper. If Cap and Trade and Healthcare pass I think we will end up in a depression with major rioting unless some smart leader can pull a rabbit out of his hat. I am about ready to just close my business and live in a camper. Tired of carrying the load.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:44 pm

Well, I only disagree in that cap n trade and health care or no cap and trade, we are still as broke as broke can be. Same outcome. We are going to try to find cheaper forms of leisure and be satisfied with less for 15 to 25 years.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:45 pm

Ringer wrote:Not exactly. We could have handled the war debt just like we always have. We could not handle the banking, mortgage, insurance crisis on top of allowing massive dollars to go to oil speculators on top of the war debt. Add Wall Street cons and the collapse of the market which robbed people of half of their investments and we are just in a pickle. We can blame just about everyone including ourselves but in reality this was a perfect storm created by greed and unfortunately both democrats and republicans have to pay the piper. If Cap and Trade and Healthcare pass I think we will end up in a depression with major rioting unless some smart leader can pull a rabbit out of his hat. I am about ready to just close my business and live in a camper. Tired of carrying the load.

+1

And Greg, reallllly? We bombed ourselves on 9/11?? (not 911) It's set in stone now, you ARE delusional.

zues · Post by **zues** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:14 pm

1. Giving loans to people who couldn't afford to pay them back.
This one lies in the lap of the Mr. Frank and Mr. Dodd's brainstorm of everyone DESERVES? to own a home first; then the greedy bastards at the banks and wall st., who all jumped on the money wagon to support it. Just so we are all clear.......very few republicans argued against this policy, because they were getting their palms greased by the banks, while Dodd and Frank were getting theirs greased by Freddie and Fannie. Once again....two
card monty.
2. Out of control spending by both our governments, local and federal. Followed by out of control spending by 90% of Americans, who bought and bought some more, with all that money they got by using thier homes as ATM cards for the last 10 years, courtesy of the fake housing bubble caused by the first reason listed. Now, we're all having to pay up those bills, and none of us, big brother, or average joe, has got the money to do so...........
3. Greed and laziness. No one in this country wants to work, or earn anything anymore. We used to work to own our homes in 30 years. Now, we work to pay the interest on seconds and thirds to pay for the SUVs and boats in the driveways. We used to save for a rainy day, in case our jobs were lost or got slow......now we cry for the government to bail us out when times get bad. (back to my european socialism argument) We used to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps when it hit the fan, now we wait for big brother to come give us some government cheese.

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:39 pm

Better bend over and grab those boot straps cause we are in for a long decline and not much we can do about it. IMO we have around 15% unemployment now using the old formulas before the gubmint changed them in the 80s and it is not over yet. I see small businesses folding in my industrial park daily which means more families on the dole. My daughter is in the mountains and I planted a huge garden this year for her. Enough food to can for a year. Put in a wood stove for heat. We are basically preparing to live on very little and keep what we have. At five my grandson can garden and shoot most of the guns. Getting pretty good at fishing and tracking animals. Better to be prepared and hope things improve. Bunker mentality which suits me fine.

finebassfisher · Post by **finebassfisher** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:49 pm

screw all you dems, you literally have no brains and have no balls, grow some backbone, i dont even know why you guys are on westernbass when your democrats, democrats are against big compaines and what runs most of bass fishing? big companies, and also their isnt too many eco friendly lures out there, its kind of hypocrituical for you douches to be on this website. Your unions are one of the reasons are car companies are going out of business, democrats also arent good with money cause they want to spend it all, and also during the great economy i guareantee you werent complainging about the economy which was thriving, due to BIG BUSINESS, as soon as something goes wrong you blame the oppsosing party, and im sure you knew about the sub prime loans the whole time they were happeneing. lol goddamn dems your so stupid

Delta is beast · Post by **Delta is beast** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:12 pm

heres what i think. I dont think its the governments fault and it certainly isnt bushs. its the people of america. all of the idiots that bought that 700 k house they knew they couldnt afford so they got that fixed rate even though they knew it was gonna hurt them in the end. also buying that stupid escalade for 80 k when there makin 60 k a year. Those are the people. because that fixed rate was up and they started having to pay more and those idiots couldnt afford it started to go into foreclosures. so they couldnt buy anything at the stores because they had no money. their house foreclosed and a domino affect happened because banks lost of ton of money due to foreclosures. so for everyone that says BUSH. lets think for a minute before we just say the president. And with all of these liberals in office all they do is want to tax right now and no one has the money to keep getting taxed. obama and his little friends have to realize that.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:46 pm

Me thinkith we have a troll in the house posting under 2 different names.

Bass Attack · Post by **Bass Attack** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:41 am

screw all you dems, you literally have no brains and have no balls, grow some backbone, i dont even know why you guys are on westernbass when your democrats, democrats are against big compaines and what runs most of bass fishing? big companies, and also their isnt too many eco friendly lures out there, its kind of hypocrituical for you douches to be on this website. Your unions are one of the reasons are car companies are going out of business, democrats also arent good with money cause they want to spend it all, and also during the great economy i guareantee you werent complainging about the economy which was thriving, due to BIG BUSINESS, as soon as something goes wrong you blame the oppsosing party, and im sure you knew about the sub prime loans the whole time they were happeneing. lol goddamn dems your so stupid

You are such a genius....I'm never voting for another democrat again hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah HA!

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:09 am

Your opinion on this subject means less than nothing....You and your party of morons (the republicans) had their shot for 8 years and those 8 years were a dismal failure.....The country is in the toilet right now and you only have yourself to blame.....Better hurry up and respond before Sean Hannity comes on. You don't want to miss his show, or you'll have no talking points for later....Ha Ha Ha Ha...Now go dry those tears of frustration....

You are such a genius....I'm never voting for another REPUBLICAN again hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah HA!

You two have a lot in common there, moronAttack. A lot of factless claims, outlandish remarks, and you both make your party look bad. Oh...and both of you post secretly as to sheepishly not let anyone know who you really are. Maybe you can invite him over to your bridge one night a$$attack? Sounds like you two might get along....

ANdy

Jeff C. · Post by **Jeff C.** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:24 am

FishaHallic wrote:Me thinkith we have a troll in the house posting under 2 different names.

Yeah, it's obvious that "finebassfisher" and "Delta is Beast" is the same idiot. Check out how they nearly always post one right after another. The same thing is happening on the main forum on the delta water thread.

Also, in the delta water thread they both are under the delusional belief that it's the Democrats that are responsible for the water diversion plan even though the principle sponsors are Republicans. There's no way two different people, even two conservatives, could share the same level of stupidity.

Wait a minute, could it be that Hrvestuff has returned?

LMAO!

Skeeterman · Post by **Skeeterman** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:16 pm

MARK1955,
You nailed it right on the head.Everybody took advantage of these and look where it got us.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:45 pm

No action is why I blame Bush and the republicans. Bush was so single minded on Iraq (not Afghanistan) that everything else fell by the wayside. Of course I realize it is not all of GWs fault and there is plenty of blame to go around including like was said about greed and people buying more than they can afford.

The fact is though, that GW was president for 8 yrs and for the first 6 of those yrs he had a republican congress and was in complete control of what he wanted. What ever happened to "The Buck stops here"? I guess if your GW or a republican it only stops there if they like the outcome other than that it's "pass the buck" time.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:27 pm

I am not sure if you are talking to me on your reply but I don't blame Bush for the war. I only blame Bush for his inability to do 2 things at once. Yes he did what he thought was right with the war but he let everything else go, there is more to being the president then running a war and not only did he fail us in his running of the war but he failed us in his inaction on the economy.

BTW, yes Clinton may have signed a bill to help people get loans easier but that bill was presented by a republican congress. So yes, both sides are at fault but things crashed on GWs watch and not at the begining but at the end of his 8 yrs when he had more than enough time to stop the crash or at least soften the landing.

FishaHallic · Post by **FishaHallic** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:03 pm

I don't know if that last com...................Oh, I already said that

. I agree with you, coming on here and blaming this party or that won't get things done.

BTW, if you notice it's republicans that start the finger pointing on about 90% of the threads

.

2ndsuks · Post by **2ndsuks** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:45 pm

MARK1955 wrote:Too many middle class working people were trying to live like they were living a rolls royce lifestyle when they were actually making yugo wages.

So this is the mess that Obama inherited from Bush.