2010 AC Pro-Ams????

[CharleyA]

Is their schedule out yet?

[Hollywood]

yes, same dates as the WCB pro am's but different lakes... Hope they can work something out!

[sTony]

Per AC:

Anglers Choice Pro-Ams Dates 2010

Feb 27th-28th Oroville
March 27th-28th Shasta
May 15th-16th Clear Lake
July 24th -25th Delta

sTony

[Hollywood]

Tony,

will you be behind the computer again this year? If so, see you at Oroville!

Per AC:

Anglers Choice Pro-Ams Dates 2010

Feb 27th-28th Oroville
March 27th-28th Shasta
May 15th-16th Clear Lake
July 24th -25th Delta

sTony

[sTony]

I never know for sure Wood. If asked I will be there.

sTony

[russ@russmeyer1.com]

I would sure like the option to fish both. But it seems that for some reason we as fisherman have to deal with some sort of rivalry between circuits. I know the dates were all set 3 months ago with WEST COAST BASS. Then all of a sudden there is a conflict on every date.All of us want to fish and need the numbers up .Even FLW numbers were sad. I am sure it is due to the economy. Thank god were are seeing small signs of improvement. That is a positive step. We have always had conflicts in tournament dates. But I don't recall ever seeing two circuits with the same dates within the same region.Unbelievable. West Coast Bass points and Schedule is also up on line. I guess we just have to pick one or the other . Hmmm Very strange.

[Randy Walker]

Guess this is a true "Angler's Choice" as to which circut to fish!
This sucks for the guys/gals that wanted to fish both ~

[sTony]

I would sure like the option to fish both. But it seems that for some reason we as fisherman have to deal with some sort of rivalry between circuits. I know the dates were all set 3 months ago with WEST COAST BASS. Then all of a sudden there is a conflict on every date.All of us want to fish and need the numbers up .Even FLW numbers were sad. I am sure it is due to the economy. Thank god were are seeing small signs of improvement. That is a positive step. We have always had conflicts in tournament dates. But I don't recall ever seeing two circuits with the same dates within the same region.Unbelievable. West Coast Bass points and Schedule is also up on line. I guess we just have to pick one or the other . Hmmm Very strange.

Permits were all drawn at the same time Russ. There's been no date changes that I'm aware of at all by either org.

Ask Larry to give Mark a call and see if they won't work something out. If it's truly a problem then it surely works both ways, as do phones and email, no?

There's nothing strange about it Russ, you're stumping for one organization over the other, putting any and all blame on to the other and trying to make the other look bad. Takes two parties to resolve conflicts. Maybe you should ask Larry what he's done or willing to do to resolve the conflicts. I'd be more then happy to mediate an agreement as Larry knows I've always been willing and ready to do and have done in the past.

sTony

PS - In this instance it probably takes more then two parties to resolve because when you move you create new conflicts.

[N.A.R]

Guess this is a true "Angler's Choice" as to which circut to fish!
~

LMAO that is funny......

[russ@russmeyer1.com]

I am not sure who's fault it is ,But dang it sure seems odd that these guys would have accidentally put all five events on top of one another. After all I think the objective here is to get the numbers up for the fisherman so the payback is better. This does not seem like this is the best way to go about it.They all seem to point fingers , but it only affects the fisherman in the long run. Seems to me I read somewhere early this year the finally a circuit for the fisherman by the fisherman. Boy did that go out the window.

[theviv]

Okay I can't let AC take the high road here. At the Permit meeting the only conflict was the first event. I really wanted that date it was a kick off at Clear Lake on Feb 27-28. That was the only conflict when we left the meeting. I have told a number of fishermen and even verbably annouced the 2010 dates for next year at our Shasta event. I excluded the kick off that I have the permit for at Clear lake to avoid the conflict and so the fishermen would not have to choose. On Monday after the Shasta event I got a call from a fishermen telling me he thought all of our dates were a conflict with AC. Later that day I called Mark Mendez and he confirmed that they were all going too be conflicts. He also said he would be giving back a bunch of permits. The simple truth is when you buy a permit on almost every weekend you have the latitude to later place your events strategically. It no longer made any sense for me not to kick off at Clear Lake! I'm sure this post will be deleted so if you get a chance to read it please help me set the record straight by telling a friend.
Larry Viviano

[Hollywood]

Rather than hash it out here, how about someone being the bigger person and do there best to resolve this issue off line for the better of the anglers? better yet, take Tony Stoltz up on his offer to mediate between the two orgs until there is something better.

This is not FLW and BASS, this is a weekend northern california pro am that we are talking about.

Okay I can't let AC take the high road here. At the Permit meeting the only conflict was the first event. I really wanted that date it was a kick off at Clear Lake on Feb 27-28. That was the only conflict when we left the meeting. I have told a number of fishermen and even verbably annouced the 2010 dates for next year at our Shasta event. I excluded the kick off that I have the permit for at Clear lake to avoid the conflict and so the fishermen would not have to choose. On Monday after the Shasta event I got a call from a fishermen telling me he thought all of our dates were a conflict with AC. Later that day I called Mark Mendez and he confirmed that they were all going too be conflicts. He also said he would be giving back a bunch of permits. The simple truth is when you buy a permit on almost every weekend you have the latitude to later place your events strategically. It no longer made any sense for me not to kick off at Clear Lake! I'm sure this post will be deleted so if you get a chance to read it please help me set the record straight by telling a friend.
Larry Viviano

[basswest]

Hey Larry, As you recall I called you prior to your Shasta event and you called me after your Shasta event, which is perfectly understandable. But the facts are the facts, We have not changed any dates since the jamboree, How could we - there are no dates to move to. The dates did not magically appear, I did speak with you about this after your shasta event. Putting all the B.S. aside, as I have mentioned previously, set aside some time and get a hold of me and we can see how we could both move some. The Anglers Choice pro-ams are for the anglers. No monies are taken from the entry fee's as profit for Anglers Choice. We simply want a affordable venue to fish. Its real simple. I would be more than willing to discuss this anytime. You have my cell phone. To try and make A/C the bully is wrong. Heck, you have other 2 day event permits you pulled at the jamboree for I assume are super teams. You have alternatives. Either way I am willing to work with any organization that can be a win-win.

Thanks
Mark Mendez

[sTony]

Okay I can't let AC take the high road here. At the Permit meeting the only conflict was the first event. I really wanted that date it was a kick off at Clear Lake on Feb 27-28. That was the only conflict when we left the meeting. I have told a number of fishermen and even verbably annouced the 2010 dates for next year at our Shasta event. I excluded the kick off that I have the permit for at Clear lake to avoid the conflict and so the fishermen would not have to choose. On Monday after the Shasta event I got a call from a fishermen telling me he thought all of our dates were a conflict with AC. Later that day I called Mark Mendez and he confirmed that they were all going too be conflicts. He also said he would be giving back a bunch of permits. The simple truth is when you buy a permit on almost every weekend you have the latitude to later place your events strategically. It no longer made any sense for me not to kick off at Clear Lake! I'm sure this post will be deleted so if you get a chance to read it please help me set the record straight by telling a friend.
Larry Viviano

Larry, you can be adversarial or you can be attempt to be accommodating. It's up to you. I've offered to help broker a change. It's all in your court right now.

sTony

[theviv]

So Mark what you are saying is that I left the permit meeting knowing that all of our events were conflicts! I'm glad you are willing to come off some of those dates that's better than what you offered when we talked. Your words were we will be giving back some date so I would be able to choose from your unused dates. You did call me when I was at Shasta I presume to inform of that!
I trust Tony let's get him involved as he suggested and try to mutually work out the conflicts. This will be my last post on this subject! If I make any changes they will be posted on our web site.

[sTony]

Larry,

First, Thanks!!! I'll call you in the AM and will start the process.

sTony

[sTony]

Larry,

This is what you posted on another site after 'your final post on this subject' on this site:

It is now public knowlege that the Pro-Ams for next year for AC and WCB are direct conflicts! It makes absolutely no sense for all parties concerned. I have all my host facilities in place and I have a great schedule.

I think USAC and the rest of the Pro Am tournament orgs are happy with their schedules as well.

sTony

[Stretch1]

So let me ask everyone this...lets say all the dates are moved and nothing is in conflict...how many guys will fish both pro/am's? not everyone for sure. guys will choose and split the dates and fish the lakes they like...so i say leave it and man up and take what you want...business is business do what it takes to make anglers fish your circuit and if one fails and one doesnt then problem solved...i agree we should all get along it is just fishing but last time i checked the strong survive!!! just to be clear this is not directed at Mark or Viv or Flw for that matter...just my .02

[JamesH]

I don't care who stepped on who's dates, I just hope that in the end, there are no conflicts. It will be better for both organizations but most importantly it will be better for all of us wanna be pros.....

James

ps. From a psych 101 point of view, someone made a very smart move stacking dates, essentially forcing the two players to the table to negotiate.... nice......

[Hollywood]

So let me ask everyone this...lets say all the dates are moved and nothing is in conflict...how many guys will fish both pro/am's? not everyone for sure. guys will choose and split the dates and fish the lakes they like...so i say leave it and man up and take what you want...business is business do what it takes to make anglers fish your circuit and if one fails and one doesnt then problem solved...i agree we should all get along it is just fishing but last time i checked the strong survive!!! just to be clear this is not directed at Mark or Viv or Flw for that matter...just my .02

Isn't that what happened this year? one kept on growing there numbers and gaining more anglers per event when the other kept on dropping? Have the events all on the same days will take away from the payout the anglers would be getting and having to pick and choose will not benefit anyone.

AC events are run with no profit taken out for the company. They put on a great event with a great cash payback. Hell even got a free dobyns rod for presigning for all 3 events. They gave us what we wanted and hope they continue to draw well.

[sTony]

I don't care who stepped on who's dates, I just hope that in the end, there are no conflicts. It will be better for both organizations but most importantly it will be better for all of us wanna be pros.....

James

ps. From a psych 101 point of view, someone made a very smart move stacking dates, essentially forcing the two players to the table to negotiate.... nice......

No one's forcing anyone to the table and no one stepped on anyones dates. They're all stepping on each others dates across the board. A conflict free resolution isn't going to happen. There simply aren't enough months in the year considering how many organizations are out there.

So the easy solution to this all is... add a couple of months to each year and we'll all have conflict free calendars.

And it's not just USAC and WCB, several other orgs pulled more multiple day permits then ever before. No less then three orgs are coming up with these 2-day super teams programs and YES, they are definitely competing for the same anglers that fish the Pro Ams. This isn't about WCB and USAC exclusively, it's includes ABA, Won Bass, NBW, WRL, Future Pro Tour/Angler's Press, and so on.

Super Teams, Pro Teams, Semi Pro Teams; for some of us they are all catering/marketing to the same or nearly the same crowd. So where's the difference and how could it amount to anything short of cutting the pie into smaller and smaller pieces.

In the end, I think what you're asking for, a conflict free schedule, is a complete and total mythical creature that doesn't exist.

sTony

[JamesH]

Tony,

Nobody is going to believe that the A/C & WCB dates lining up is pure coincidence, nice try though.....

James

[sTony]

Tony,

Nobody is going to believe that the A/C & WCB dates lining up is pure coincidence, nice try though.....

James

Nothing more fun then being told you're a liar. Thanks for that. I'll back off the topic because being honest with folks in here just isn't worth the effort. You can create whatever 'reailty' you'd like to put stock into.

James, do me a favor, spend some time with a tournament calendar and let Larry or Mark or Bill or whoever else out there know where they can move their tournaments to. They'd all appreciate it because NONE of them WANT conflicted schedules and no one is stacking tournaments on top of another org intentionally.

But you keep believing what you want, I can't help you on that.

sTony

[JamesH]

Tony,

Not calling you a liar, just telling you that perception is that it's more likely planned than coincidence. I didn't say you planned it Maybe Viv did and you just don't know it


James

[Fast Eddie]

Trying to get a resolution between all organizations is like asking Gary Dobyns to not rip during the spring season, or for that matter any season. It aint gonna happen. So the fisherman are left with the dilemma of choosing one over the other.
First let's get this bull stuff about profitdone and over. Gordon Gecko days are over. I know of no business that isn't in it for a profit. I'm sure all the staff working at the tournaments are volunteers away from thier families so they can be with the stars of the fishing world. I don't think so. These folks do their best to provide us an organization that is professional. Whether it's USAC, WCB, WON they all have expenses, and I for one am happy to donate a little of my entry so that these folks come back and back. What they do is not easy. I commend Larry V for getting up at 3 am or whatever and making sure things are set up. Guys at the docks for USAC checking boats, livewells. Then the weigh ins, I think the point here is
1. If someone wants to make a profit then so be it. In the long run it's better for us. No one ever got rich puting on tournaments
And isn't that what this is all about US.

Next the schedule thing. Choice Hmmmm!!!!!
Well the profit thing is all done , so how about the schedules.

Well as a guy who loves this sport, and has had my share of sponsors, I feel that I have to do whats best for my sponsors to get their names out and in circulation. I don't have the bucks, or the sponsors to fish FLW etc, so I chose the local org. So now choice is USAC, WON, WCB etc.

So where do I go if conflicts in scheduling occur.

I mean after all if I'm sponsored, I'm part of that business, and its my job to promote that business. Now most sponsors usually leave the fisherman to there own decisions, so do I fish the schedule with a publication, and an unknow circulation number (however a cover shot of the mag was in a major motion picture I believe) with a full page senario two months after the tournament, or do I fish the televised schedule where even if I'm not in the top ten , theres a good chance my sponsors logo gets seen for a few seconds in the back ground. Possibly 11 million homes. (Check out angler west next week, or the week after, they never even filmed the winner fishingduring the tournament, nor did they ask where he was fishing so several sponsored and non sponsored fisherman will have there fifteen minutes of fame, as will the winner.

As a business, both are good for my sponnsor's business, but I reach more people if I'm on television. The organization seeking sponsors benifits as well. More sponsors means more oppurtunity for us fisherman. So my choice is made. But there's always hope and Stony is a gret mediator (He's also a great one too )

Hope I didn't ramble to long just my .02 sense

[DAN]

Yeah Woody We can go to Shasta TOO Look forward to fishing!

[flipit]

personally I dont mind the conflicts. Im after catching big fish. Which means I have lots to do at Clear Lake. See ya there.

[snapitoff2002]

I hope something can be worked out as well... The more fishing I can do, the more learning. I was hoping to learn from some of the best, and this just cuts down on the learning curve that could be possible for the weekend angler.

One thing I don't know, is why the dates are exactly the same. It does make you wonder. In my business, the up and comers are smothered, and squished out. You either make it, or you don't. But if you threaten the established players, they will do their best to eliminate you.

[calfisher71]

I had Interest in west coast Bass but 27 boats just doesnt cut it.
I am going to stick to anglers choice nothing against west coast Bass. I hear they do a good job.