spotted bass in Santa Margrita!.........

[bassrman]

please !,any one catching a spot in Margarita lake !,kill it!,some idiot wants to ruin a great trophy largemouth fishery,by moving spots from Naciamento,I have caught 3 in the last 2 trips!& they are in the trash can now!,it only took 4 or 5 years for spots to take over & dominate Naci!.....

[Steve J]

I agree kill them but fillet bread and deep fry those suckers very tasty.

[bassrman]

maybe thats the reason some body would be evil enough to ruin a great lake! its a "meat" fisherman!.......

[TomAtkeson]

I think the point of that was that if you are going to kill the fish don't waste them. Take them home and eat them ... if you don't like fish I'm sure you have friends, family or neighbors that do.

[bassrman]

I think the point I am trying to make is what kind of mentality would ruin a great trophy largemouth lake by ilegally transporting spotted bass,from a lake that is 50 mins away,if you want to catch spots!,go to Naciamento!......

[drew]

I think its a good idea to remove any spots, stripers or squaw fish that are caught at Margarita. I don't think the spots will be successful at Margi for the same reason the SMB could not sustain a population there. Its a shallow lake that is more ideal for LMB.

[bassrman]

You are right on Drew!the lake was planted with smallies,way back,they did not take too the lakes structure & composition (shallow & weedy),the last smallie I caught was in the mid 90s,the stripers are gone too!lets hope that the spots dont like it either!...

[vinny]

DFG should remove size restrictions and limits on spotted bass and make it mandatory to take all spots caught. Margarita is another LMB fishery ruined.

[vinny]

*NM*

[GKramer]

Spotted bass are all over the Southeast (weedy, shallow, brushy, off color, etc). If you've caught three yourself, I would guess, they're in there. If that number jumps up in the next 24 months, you could surmise they have been established and probably got a running start when the lake was low a few times over the last whatever number of years since they spawn deeper.

Or you are one highly accurate fisherman able to cherry pick spots out of an entire largemouth population....

www.kramergonefishing.com

[Oldschool]

Spotted bass trash fish? Carp are trash fish, not spots. If the smallies didn't get established, then the spots, more than likely, will not over run the largemouth population.
Tom

[biteme]

Spotted bass trash fish? Carp are trash fish, not spots. If the smallies didn't get established, then the spots, more than likely, will not over run the largemouth population.
Tom

Tell that to the guys that fish Oroville. Back in the day it was nothing to catch a 5lb large mouth.

[Delaney]

How much does the water level fluctuate at Margarita. If water is drawn down rapidly in spring, this lake will be a P.O.S. in about 12-15 years. It is beyond me that this spotted bass stocking continues to happen. The biggest mystery to me is why when spots are intoduced to a lake smallmouth bass essentially dissappear in this time frame. They are made "extinct".....at least in that lake. It probably might not be a bad idea to get the Sierra Club or some other environmental org. involved in this "extinction, or maybe even P.E.T.A. Apparently nobody else cares.

[Delaney]

I hope nobody took my comment re the Sierra Club or P.E.T.A. seriously, as this was meant to be a joke to draw attention to the true fact that nobody cares about this.

[Oldschool]

Like LMB, spots come in 2 strains; northern (Kentucky) and river (Alabama), the Alabama spots grow about 2X the size Kentucky's.
Lake Perris had Alabama spots until the LMB over ran them, so it can work both ways. If the lake is river fed and has a population of off shore baitfish, the spots may take over.
We have smallies in Castiac and Casitas, it's a matter of time before someone plants spots, the DFG isn't the problem.
Tom

[CN]

Probably the same knuckleheads who put them in San Antonio.

[Oldschool]

Probably the same knuckleheads who put them in San Antonio.

Antone was a lake that had lots 5 lbr's...before the stripers were planted. Naci has whites to go along with everything else. Kind hard to blame spots for changes at those fisheries.
How is Pine Falt after the spots arrived? other than the WR spot.
Tom

[Delaney]

If I recall the fish in Lake Perris were killed off about 20 years ago because of spoted bass over population. Then it was restocked with Floridas. I don't think largemouths had anything to do with it.

[bassrman]

the reason I think I got the 3 spots the last 2 trips to Margi,is the bite has been real tough for LMB,I was throwing a 8th oz. darthead worm on 6lb test! great spot bait!...I should be throwing a 12" swimbait! But! with no trout plants,that bite isnt happening! (thats another story!).......

[GKramer]

Actually, the demise of Perris spotted bass was strictly replacement of the easy-to-catch spotted bass with the illegally introduced hybrid Floridas, which with the DFG planted Florida bluegill, out-competed the Alabama spots. Specifically, the spots fell especially hard for both live waterdogs and mudsuckers--both legal at the time. And catch and release was not entrenched enough to sustain the spots.

It did not happen overnight, but over a few years everything was changed.

Footnote: When roughly 340 spotted bass were planted into San Vicente back in the late 1970's, the city's creel census was able to account for every one of those planted fish over a couple seasons.

[bassinDerek]

whats wrong with spotted bass? isnt a fish a fish

[Triton Mike]

Like LMB, spots come in 2 strains; northern (Kentucky) and river (Alabama), the Alabama spots grow about 2X the size Kentucky's.
Lake Perris had Alabama spots until the LMB over ran them, so it can work both ways. If the lake is river fed and has a population of off shore baitfish, the spots may take over.
We have smallies in Castiac and Casitas, it's a matter of time before someone plants spots, the DFG isn't the problem.
Tom

and

Spotted bass trash fish? Carp are trash fish, not spots. If the smallies didn't get established, then the spots, more than likely, will not over run the largemouth population.
Tom

Tom, You don't think Spots will take over a Largemouth lake??? Here in Georgia I will give you 3 examples. West Point. Back in the hey day it was notorious for 30lb sacks of heads. Now it's 60% Spotted Bass and growing. Lake Lanier used to be a Largemouth lake. Now 90% spotted Bass. Lake Allatoona my home lake used to be a decent largemouth lake now 90% spotted Bass.

Alabama Spots vs Kentucky and the Alabama spots are twice the size????? How you figure? GA spot lake record is 8lbs and change (ky spots). Alabama Record is just short of 9lbs.. Not even close to twice the size. Smith does grow them big but Smith can't hold a candle to numbers of 4lb + spots in Lanier.

Mike

[Marc]

George is right about the spots in Perris. The bucket biologists brought in the Florida Strain largemouths, and coupled with the meat fisherman the spots didn't survive. This was the ruin of a special fishery; one memorable day there I had a 5 spotted bass limit weighing 28 pounds and 14 ounces, all on Bagley Shad Crankbaits.

I also have caught some really nice largemouths out of Santa Margarita, and would hate to see that lake taken over by spots. Haven't fished it for years since I moved to Washington, but there used to be some huge crappie in Margarita, also!

ciao,
Marc

[Oldschool]

Mike, I'm not an expert on spotted bass. My first experience with spots was back in the 50's at Lake Millerton with Kentucy bass, as they were called back then. Millerton was loaded with 1 lb. spots.
Nacimiento and Lake Shasta were my next experiences in the late 60's, also Kentucy spots and those bass were at best 2 lbs.
At Naci the spotted bass population disappeared during the 80's and the smallmouth came back, now the spots have come back. The fact that spots and smallies mix could be a problem.
Dave Nollar gave me a heads up on the Alabama spotted bass at Perris back in the early 80's and those spots were averaging 4 lbs; twice as big as the Kenturcy's.
Spotted records don't reflect the strain, like largemouth, spots are spots, however the Alabama is a different specie (fine scaled) and widely distributed and like the FLMB grow bigger.
If the lake has a river system, the spots like smallmouth, do very well. In CA we don't have a native fresh water bass specie, they are all transplants.
Tom

[fish_food]

...like largemouth, spots are spots, however the Alabama is a different specie (fine scaled) and widely distributed and like the FLMB grow bigger.

Actually, the varieties of spots are of the *same* species, they're just different strains. A strain is just that: it's a sub-species.

[some guy]

I actually caught a spot out of perris in 1988 when i was 7 that weighed 6.23. I scribbled a short story and Mr. Kramer was kind enough to print it. It was my first time in WON. My dad still has the article and about 30 others.. .

I miss the days of a full Perris and busting spotties everywhere. When i was a little grom I use to destroy that place on a pop r and a reaper. Ahh the good ole days.

[Oldschool]

...like largemouth, spots are spots, however the Alabama is a different specie (fine scaled) and widely distributed and like the FLMB grow bigger.

Actually, the varieties of spots are of the *same* species, they're just different strains. A strain is just that: it's a sub-species.

Correct, should have typed strain, what was I thinking! The point I was trying to make is the difference between NSB and ASB is very similar to the difference between NLMB and FLMB. Most everyone understands that FLMB grow larger.
The big issue however goes unanswered, will spots dominate a lake with LMB population? it didn't in Perris.
Tom

[vinny]

Old School wrote:
Mike, I'm not an expert on spotted bass. My first experience with spots was back in the 50's at Lake Millerton with Kentucy bass, as they were called back then. Millerton was loaded with 1 lb. spots.

Tom - There were no spotted bass in Millerton in the 50's. They were planted by DFG with fish they had taken from Lake Perris in the late 70's.

DFG ruined a quality LMB fishery. Fishermen moved them to Pine Flat and another great LMB fishery was ruined.

[vinny]

Old School wrote:
Mike, I'm not an expert on spotted bass. My first experience with spots was back in the 50's at Lake Millerton with Kentucy bass, as they were called back then. Millerton was loaded with 1 lb. spots.

Tom - There were no spotted bass in Millerton in the 50's. They were planted by DFG with fish they had taken from Lake Perris in the late 70's.

DFG ruined a quality LMB fishery. Fishermen moved them to Pine Flat and another great LMB fishery was ruined.

[brambo0311]

Some lakes the best thing that ever happened was spotted bass. Lakes like Folsom you can catch smallies, largemouth and spots without moveing the boat sometimes.

I wonder what makes them take over in some areas and not in others. The delta has them up river, and they don't seem to be hurting my smallmouth I catch up here on the river. And just a 1/4 mile from those I catch good largemouth.

[CN]

Probably the same knuckleheads who put them in San Antonio.

Antone was a lake that had lots 5 lbr's...before the stripers were planted. Naci has whites to go along with everything else. Kind hard to blame spots for changes at those fisheries.
How is Pine Falt after the spots arrived? other than the WR spot.
Tom

Tom I have been fishing both Nacimiento and San Antonio since the early 70's. I do agree that the Stripers ruined San Antonio but I remember Naci as a great Smallmouth fishery and a decent Largemouth fishery White bass or not and I sure dont remember catching spot's before the 80's. I have to disagree I think they have ruined Nacimiento but that's just my take on it.

Take care Mike

[Oldschool]

Old School wrote:
Mike, I'm not an expert on spotted bass. My first experience with spots was back in the 50's at Lake Millerton with Kentucy bass, as they were called back then. Millerton was loaded with 1 lb. spots.

Tom - There were no spotted bass in Millerton in the 50's. They were planted by DFG with fish they had taken from Lake Perris in the late 70's.

DFG ruined a quality LMB fishery. Fishermen moved them to Pine Flat and another great LMB fishery was ruined.

Actually the 1st northern strain of spotted bass the DFG stocked was in Friant, San Joaquin river in 1936. That section of the San Joaquin river was damed in 1944, Friant Dam, to create lake Millerton. To the best of my knowledge the DFG didn't remove any of the Alabama spots from lake Perris, they were displaced by Florida strain LMB and fishing pressure.
Tom

[Delaney]

Re Folsom.....O.K. maybe there still is a balance of the bass species population. What is important is when were they introduced as it takes several years for this imbalance to take place. I would bet that they haven't been there very long. I'm curious if anybody knows, please post.

[Oldschool]

Probably the same knuckleheads who put them in San Antonio.

Antone was a lake that had lots 5 lbr's...before the stripers were planted. Naci has whites to go along with everything else. Kind hard to blame spots for changes at those fisheries.
How is Pine Falt after the spots arrived? other than the WR spot.
Tom

Tom I have been fishing both Nacimiento and San Antonio since the early 70's. I do agree that the Stripers ruined San Antonio but I remember Naci as a great Smallmouth fishery and a decent Largemouth fishery White bass or not and I sure dont remember catching spot's before the 80's. I have to disagree I think they have ruined Nacimiento but that's just my take on it.

Take care Mike

San Antone in the 70's was a jig fishermans paradise, loved that lake back then.
The spots in Naci were skinny and everywhere back in the late 60's, early 70's. We didn't catch any for years, until the late 80's or earlt 90's. Naci never was good for big bass for me, it was a good numbers lake. Every once in awhile you could catch a good fish at Naci, but Antone was the better lake. We didn't fish Margrita much, it was a good spinnerbait lake at times, preferred Lopez.
Hope everything turns out OK up there, I'm stuck at Casitas these days, due to the quagga mussel issue.
Tom

[fish_food]

Old School wrote:
Mike, I'm not an expert on spotted bass. My first experience with spots was back in the 50's at Lake Millerton with Kentucy bass, as they were called back then. Millerton was loaded with 1 lb. spots.

Tom - There were no spotted bass in Millerton in the 50's. They were planted by DFG with fish they had taken from Lake Perris in the late 70's.

DFG ruined a quality LMB fishery. Fishermen moved them to Pine Flat and another great LMB fishery was ruined.

Actually the 1st northern strain of spotted bass the DFG stocked was in Friant, San Joaquin river in 1936. That section of the San Joaquin river was damed in 1944, Friant Dam, to create lake Millerton. To the best of my knowledge the DFG didn't remove any of the Alabama spots from lake Perris, they were displaced by Florida strain LMB and fishing pressure.
Tom

An interesting history on the introduction of spots into CA (DFG Bulletin 178, pages 168-171): History And Status of Introduced Fishes In California, 1871 – 1996


ALABAMA SPOTTED BASS
Micropterus punctulatus henshalli
On 6 April 1973, the California Fish and Game Commission authorized the introduction of Alabama spotted bass as part of an "experimental" management program to improve fishing in California reservoirs. The decision was based primarily on the rapid growth and longevity attained by this subspecies in certain oligotrophic impoundments in Alabama (Brown et al. 1977). Aasen and Henry (1981) added that the choice was also dictated by the desire to secure a species of black bass that could spawn successfully in California reservoirs during periods of fluctuating water levels, and could maintain a sizeable population where organic habitat had deteriorated, leaving a predominantly barren or rocky substratum.

The first attempt by the California Department of Fish and Game to introduce the Alabama spotted bass failed, however, when part of the shipment from Alabama died before even leaving that state. It was to have been part of a trade with Alabama for Florida largemouth bass reared in California (San Francisco Chronicle, 27 October 1973, p. 43).

The next attempt was successful. About 130 adult Alabama spotted bass were collected from Lewis Smith Lake in Alabama and flown to Ontario, California, on 25 January 1974. Following inspection for diseases and parasites and fin marking, 94 individuals about 25 cm in length and weighing up to 0.9 kg were released into Perris Lake, Riverside County.[111] The remaining bass (aside from six preserved in formalin) were transferred to the State's Central Valleys Hatchery near Sacramento.

Reproduction of the Alabama spotted bass in Perris Lake was first confirmed in July 1974. A few were taken by anglers in 1974 and 1975, and by 1976 it was considered that there was an abundance of large ones in the 809-ha reservoir. One of the largest taken was believed to have the fastest growth for the species recorded to date (Brown et al. 1977).

Reproduction of the bass held at Central Valleys Hatchery furnished fish for a second introduction into Perris Lake in August 1974. In late 1974, between 2000 and 3000 Alabama spotted bass fingerlings from this Hatchery were planted in Millerton Lake, and in early 1975 this plant was supplemented with 150 adults from Perris Lake. Another 300 adults and subadults collected from Perris Lake in March and April 1977 were released in San Vicente Reservoir, San Diego County. Both the Millerton Lake and San Vicente populations are successfully established, and at Millerton Lake the Alabama bass has created an attractive black bass fishery where only a small one existed previously, despite the presence of both the largemouth and smallmouth bass (Fish and von Geldern 1983).

Studies by Aasen and Henry (1981) at Perris Lake indicated that the criteria they mentioned for success were generally met: "... Alabama spotted bass displayed a tendency to spawn deeper and in more open or barren substrate, a definite advantage in some California reservoirs."

Shapovalov et al. (1981) noted that additional Alabama spotted bass from Perris Lake had since been stocked in other reservoirs in California: e.g. New Hogan Reservoir, Calaveras County; Lake Isabella, Kern County; and Lake Oroville, Butte County. In addition to these waters, populations of Alabama spotted bass are currently prospering in Camanche Lake, Calaveras and San Joaquin counties; Folsom Lake, El Dorado, Placer, and Sacramento counties; McClure Lake, Mariposa County; Millerton Lake, Fresno and Madera counties; Pine Flat Reservoir, Fresno County; and Shasta Lake, Shasta County.

----------------------

NORTHERN SPOTTED BASS
Micropterus punctulatus punctulatus (Rafinesque)
The early shipments of fish from the eastern United States introduced into California came by train, subject to long delays, changes of different waters en route, varying temperatures, and poor aeration. The trips were hard on the fish and hard on the fish culturists.[110]

But in 1933, a quick dash by airplane sufficed to bring in several hundred young northern spotted bass from Ohio (J.O.S. 1935; Brown 1939; unpublished records of the California Division of Fish and Game). Leitritz (1970) said that 904 spotted bass fry were received at Friant from Ohio on 10 June 1934, but this was probably a printer's error for 1933, since we have no other records of this import. The importation under the name of Kentucky bass was arranged with the help of T.H. Langlois, then Chief of the Bureau of Fish Propagation of Ohio. The reasons for this importation are unknown to us. Possibly, the importation was made because the spotted bass was supposed to prefer a habitat intermediate to that of the largemouth bass and smallmouth bass which were already present in California. Furthermore, Viosca (1931) had written a glowing account of this species from the angling standpoint; it had a reputation in the South of being a superb fighter on light tackle.

The scientific name of this black bass when imported was Micropterus pseudaplites, having been described by Hubbs in 1927 as a new species. It was not until later that he discovered that Rafinesque's description had priority and that a number of subspecies were named. The form introduced, now known as the northern spotted bass, is indigenous to the eastern United States, especially the Ohio River.

The spotted bass was first held at the Experimental Bass Hatchery at Friant, and later brought to the Central Valleys Hatchery at Elk Grove. No plants of it were made from the Friant Hatchery, although some spotted bass may have escaped into the San Joaquin River during 1936. If so, this was their first "plant" in California's natural waters. We know that 39,870 were reported as on hand on 31 January 1937 (CC 1937b). The first intentional plant was made in 1937 in the Tuolumne River. Brown (1939) said that they had been planted in the San Joaquin, Tuolumne, Cosumnes, and Kern rivers. The report of plants in the Kern seems to have been false.

official planting records (unpublished) of the California Division of Fish and Game show the first plant of the northern spotted bass to have been in the Tuolumne River in 1937 (4314 fish), followed during the 1938–41 period by more plants in the Tuolumne River and also in the Cosumnes River; Butte County; Amador County; and Lauer Reservoir, Modoc County. In 1941 it was planted in several California reservoirs containing no other fish in order to build up a supply for the future. Little can be determined of its success. Its close resemblance to the other black basses makes it difficult to evaluate its success or spread as reported by sportsmen.

Our last published reports of established populations were those in the Cosumnes River, El Dorado and Sacramento counties; Merle Collins Lake, Yuba County; Lake Oroville and the Feather River below it (California 1981). The genetic purity of some of these stocks is believed questionable and hybridization with previously established smallmouth bass populations may have occurred (Brown et al. 1977). At the present time, the only pure northern spotted bass populations are found in the lowermost reaches of the Cosumnes and Mokelumne rivers (State biologist D.P. Lee, 6 May 1994 pers. comm.). Broodstocks of this subspecies have not been maintained in California's hatchery system. This is one of the reasons why the introduction of the subspecies henshalli or Alabama spotted bass was authorized.

[Oldschool]

Good information regarding the Alabama spots. Information on the DFG stocking of northern spotted bass or Kentucky strain is hard to find.
http://www.fishbio.com/fisheries-biolog ... -bass.html
The above link mentions the early 1936-1937 spotted bass introduction at Friant.
The strain introduced into Margrita would need to be examed by a biologist. Regardless of the strain, fisherman shouldn't be stocking them.
Tom

[fish_food]

Good information regarding the Alabama spots. Information on the DFG stocking of northern spotted bass or Kentucky strain is hard to find.
http://www.fishbio.com/fisheries-biolog ... -bass.html
The above link mentions the early 1936-1937 spotted bass introduction at Friant.
The strain introduced into Margrita would need to be examed by a biologist. Regardless of the strain, fisherman shouldn't be stocking them.
Tom

I found the 1930s Northern spot info you cited--it's in that DFG bulletin I linked to above (page 169). I'll edit my post above to relfect that...

[Oldschool]

Way back in the late 50's our family would take water skiing vacations at CA lakes from Shasta to the Colorado river. The 1st spotted bass I caught at Millerton looked like a skinny smallmouth with connected dorsal fin and colored like a largemouth, we had no idea what kind of bass it was. The marina operater told me it was a Kentucky bass and the lake was full of them back then.
I don't know of any SoCal lakes that have a spotted bass population, could still be a few in Perris today?
Low water conditions seems to highlight fishery problems when the bass have less room to establish natural territory. Hopefully when the rain returns and lakes reach full pool, the spotted bass issues will resolve itself.
Tom