To all tournament org's.....

[Scott Shambre]

Although I sent this to ABA HQ, what do you guys think of this concept for TOC qualification requirements for a circuit?????

Cutting the TOC field to around 100-125 boats and to make the qualification standard higher can be done in one of two ways. The first way this can be done would be to set the number of teams that qualify from a region to 15 teams instead of 30 that fished 5-of-6 events in that region.

The other way is to do something that would make ABA different from every other organization. First, set the qualifying point total for a region for the season at 500 points using 6 events, this would include the Travelers region. This would encourage teams to show up to all events in their region if they wanted to qualify for the TOC thru that region. The second part is that every team that fished and did NOT qualify for the TOC, and is within 50 points of the 500 point cutoff, would be eligible for Options only Wildcard Tournament held one month prior to the TOC on a neutral body of water. There would be no entry fee (regular mandatory ABA fees apply) for this event, only options would be available and the Top-25 would advance to the TOC.

Lastly, if you support the northern regions, you fish the northern TOC, if you fish the southern regions you fish the southern TOC. None of the TOC money from the southern TOC gets put towards the northern TOC, so the southern teams are getting a free ride on the teams that supported the northern regions. If you want to fish a TOC out of your region, support one of the circuits within the region that is hosting the TOC you want to fish.

What say you guys????

[World Boat Outlet, Inc.]

So Scott,

what if you qualify 3 different times in 3 different regions in the South?

You shouldn't be able to fish all 3 TOC's per A.B.A.'s rules?

[Scott Shambre]

By the rule as it is written now, you are correct Woodrow....

If you fish 3 different regions down south you could have fished the Columbia in the Northwest, Mead in the South and the Clear Lk. date.

[JustFishn]

Scott
Did you send a letter to Anglers Choice also about not allowing other regions to fish any other toc outside there region? I believe they have very similar rules. Or are you just sending it to circuits you fish?

Maybe I'm mistaken but I never saw anyone complaining when the McAbee's kicked everyones butt up at clear lake every year. Plus a number of other folks that fished another region.

Hope all is well! Still missing your circuit

Justin Nelson

[Scott Shambre]

Justin, A/C has the same rules, but the number of teams that qual thru each region is set at a level that you have to earn your way in. Also, A/C has the "Wildcard" tournament that I spoke of. Look at the region one TOC that is right here in NorCal, they had less than 100 boats to their TOC. That is, IMHO, the correct number of boats that should compete in a TOC out of 10 circuits within the region.

A/C has the right idea

Also Justin, the McAbee's qualify thru the Isabella circuit which is in the Northern region

[2ndsuks]

A/C has the same rules, but the number of teams that qual thru each region is set at a level that you have to earn your way in.
A/C has the right idea

+1

[Rick G]

Those are fine ideas but the big sponcers want big exposure to their product, thus the more the better. Sorry to burst the bubble, but those are the facts. Rick G.

[Scott Shambre]

If that is true Rick, how can the sponsors be happy with the regular season boat numbers? The sponsors pay for SEASON exposure, not just the TOC. Take a look at the Future Pro Tour up here, Vince has 150 boat fields all year long and his qualification standard is set as such that only 80 teams from two seperate regions qualified to get to the TOC. That is the right formula for qualifying for any TOC, kepp your season boat numbers up and in the end those that EARNED their way there will come out on top.

The fact that the money that was drawn from each tournament entry for the southern TOC stayed at that TOC for the 130'ish teams that competed. None of that money came north to Clear Lk., so the southern anglers got a free ride on the support that the northern teams gave to ABA.

If I want to fish a TOC down south, I will come down there and support those regions with my business, I should not be allowed to just jump in that TOC.

These are NOT new concepts, this is what was/is being said up here about ABA. I have supported ABA for the past 3 yrs. because they are the ONLY org. to put a circuit on Folsom Lk. I will continue to support ABA, but simple changes could make a good org. great.

[Rick G]

Well, I have not gone on their website to count the regions, but I think ABA just has more regions than everyone else. Also it is a long known fact that the North guys dont travel and the south guys do. The guys down here just LIKE GOING to Clear Lake. And for a long time the only reason A/C had any turnout down here was because the fishoff was at Clear Lake. My guess is if it was not for Vern Price pumpin the A/C south TOC at Havasu, it would have had even less of a turnout. Listen, if you want to solve the Team Bass issues and make things FAIR for all, The North qualifiers should have a South fishoff and visaversa. That solves the "Local Advantage" issue, but still the best guys will still win IMHO. Does ABA need to post their standings faster, yes and Craig said he would fix that, but other than that their Championships are the best in the West. Rick G.

[Scott Shambre]

If they're willing to travel, have them jump the Grapevine and do it to be able to fish a northern TOC. Otherwise the money the southern regions contribute to the SOUTHERN TOC needs to come north with the number of teams that come from there.

All I am saying is that teams NEED to support the region they want to fish the TOC in...you want Clear Lk., come north to Isabella and support Ed & Jean Cordell in that circuit.

[RMANZO]

it seems everyone( at least guys who haven't figured out you dont fish against the angler, you fish against the fish) is afraid of the "zip code" fisherman.... w/out going into the past too far, the last "2" aba toc's @ clear lake were won by a team from down south, and a team from the motherlode... and as far as the #'s @ our toc, those extra teams that made it are usually teams that are new to tourneys, or even a team that had a bad season... usually you took their money all year long, and @ the toc it just adds more money to the pot... those beginner teams that regulary wouldnt qualify in the top "20" need to experience a toc... that is how our sport grows...at clear lake if there are a 100 teams or 200 teams, there will still be someone fishing u'r spot... boats are always bunched up in areas...there are no secrets out there.... i know of a couple teams from my aba motherlode that started fishing this past season... after one season they were uncertain about doing it again this season... they fished all 6 events and qualified for the toc.... after they went there, they caught a limit each day, they were totally pumped up about this next season... there were times these guys didnt catch a limit on their "home water"... these guys were part of the "BIGGEST" fishing event they have ever experienced.... one of them is even going out to buy a "new ranger" that is how we grow.... dont be afraid of these extra 50-75 boats... they probably even worked "harder than you to get there"

[DL]

Those are fine ideas but the big sponcers want big exposure to their product, thus the more the better. Sorry to burst the bubble, but those are the facts. Rick G.

+1

When most regions are starving for boats, I dont think limiting the field to make it more prestigious is going to attract sponsor dollars. Scott, in a vaccum your idea is good, but I dont think it plays well in todays tournament and $$ environment. When WON Bass was pulling 80-100 teams at its regular season events, the qualifying seemed more difficult, but now that the fields are reduced, it appears that its easier to qualify. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think most orgs have left their qualifying criteria the same, even with the lower tournouts over the past 5 seasons. While making it more difficult to qualify, you do attract the better teams, but I think it hurts the organization in the long run when the big sponsor only sees 60 boats at the TOC, instead of 120...

[JustFishn]

Scott
I agree thats a lot of the boats to be fishing a Toc. And I also agree that it seems to be that they make it pretty easy to be able to fish the toc.

You spoke of Future pro. You are correct Vince averages a lot of boats but look at how many don't fish all of his events. I think this year he had 45 boats fish all 7 events and around 68 to 70 fished 6 of his events. So 45 boats supported his whole season and yet he still took 45 or more from the northern region. Its still better then 200 boats. And Vince puts on one hell of a Toc!

I know in A/C if I qualify to fish the toc. I can fish any Toc that they put on as long as its not considered a HOME lake. If everyone from the south or anywhere in the country came up here to fish our Toc it would be packed.

[Scott Shambre]

Using all the logic that has been shown here, i will make an apples and apples comparison.

ABA Oroville and Anglers Choice Oroville

ABA averaged 16 boats per event in a 6 event schedule and in the end 11 went to the TOC. Out of the 11 qualifiers, 8 teams fished all 6 events and 3 fished only 5. Basically, everyone that showed up to a minimum of 5 events went to the TOC.

Anglers Choice averaged 36 boats over a 7 event schedule qualifying 18 to the TOC. Twenty-one of the top-24 teams fished all 7 events, 3 teams fished 6 and 2 teams fished 5. All told there were 27 teams eligible and only 18 of them were granted spots to their TOC. The rest of the teams had to go to a Wild Card tournament to get to the TOC. In a circuit that held it's boat numbers up and showed great sponsor support, they only took 18 of the eligible 27 teams that supported them throughout the year.

The A/C Oroville circuit was one of the most competitive circuits in all of California and as it should be, getting to the TOC thru that region was tough as only 100 points seperated 1st thru 17th place in the standings.

This is in no way to say one is better than the other, but for a "Pro Team" circuit, it should not be easy to qualify for a TOC, show up points are just that show up points and no automatic credit for the TOC

[Murph]

Scott, I agree, it should be a Challenge to get to the TOC. The qualification standards could be a little more rigid

While you are doing the research on AC, maybe you could shed some light on how the 5th place finishing team at the Havasu TOC qualified for that event.

[Scott Shambre]

That don't fly either Mike, just look into the Pro's that show up on the the ABA leader boards and you cannot tell me that ABA doesn't hold "Pro" team events.

Goodwin, Kerr, Siemantel, Linder, Dobyns, Barrack, Thomas, McAbee, Bennett, Kb, Rush, Grover, Iovino, Donoho.....

These are just ones that come to mind without researching it.

ABA does run Pro team events on the same level as every other organization out there.

[Terry Smith]

That don't fly either Mike, just look into the Pro's that show up on the the ABA leader boards and you cannot tell me that ABA doesn't hold "Pro" team events.

Goodwin, Kerr, Siemantel, Linder, Dobyns, Barrack, Thomas, McAbee, Bennett, Kb, Rush, Grover, Iovino, Donoho.....

These are just ones that come to mind without researching it.

ABA does run Pro team events on the same level as every other organization out there.

You forgot to put me on there!!!!!! I'm A PRO!!!!!!!!! bag carier
I'd have to agree way to easy to qualify in the ABA. Maybe do A North and South TOC that they have to pay for like A normal event. Then take the the top 40 teams from both North and South and may the best team take home the new boat. Future Pro Tour does do A GREAT job at makeing fair to both Northern and Central devisions.