FLW-Bottom Line

rdearmond · Post by **rdearmond** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:34 pm

FLW has more boaters then co-anglers, that's it . I've seen dozens of co-anglers that should fish on the boater side based on fishing ability but they choose not to, plus some of them bring their own boats to pre-fish anyway. Based on my conversation with FLW, they are trying to place everyone, based owners group, some put the down payment down but aren't sure if thy can make the rest, some looking for refunds because of family emergency. The lady I talked to said it's a nightmare trying to sort everyone out.

Long Nguyen · Post by **Long Nguyen** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:50 pm

Tournament logistics is never easy. From the get go, getting registration, random partner pairing, blast off cards, etc. It's always a guess until the morning of blast off.

I don't miss running tournaments one bit.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:19 am

Ability has nothing to do with it. It comes down to money at the end of the day. Many people like myself fish as a coangler because they like the competition, but are trying to live within their means.

If I have to decide between fishing as a boater (with the added expense for a new boat payment, entry fee & driving costs) or saving to buy a house & fishing as a coangler then the decision is easy for me. I pick door number 2 and fish as a coangler. I don't come from a wealthy family, have sponsors to pay my expenses or a sugar momma to pay for my toys (although I'm working on the sugar momma part here in Scottsdale).

Even though this is an expensive sport there are ways that you can still compete while not worrying about bills, not living paycheck to paycheck & still save money to buy a house. It just requires some life decisions as to what is really important for you at the end of the day. For me if I can at least break even at the end of the year with my entry fees as a coangler, have fun and make a small dent in the overall cost of the sport then I've had a pretty successful year. This way I can afford to play again another day and continue to have a decent work/life balance.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 am

The Guards are supposed to be the top of the heap on EITHER side of the boat. Unfortunately FLW removed the rest of the heap by pulling the Strens. If you think it is easy to fish against Brent Ehrler AND BE COMPETITIVE you"re crazy. Might want to consider guys like JR Wright the smart ones as they fish their level of competition.

You will see very few Co-Anglers that belong fishing the front of the boat in this Series. The problem is you will see A LOT of Co-Anglers in this Series that do not belong fishing against Guard level Co-Anglers like JR.

Fun to watch a bunch of donaters fight to give their money to JR. Sad to watch a bunch of Co-Anglers that should be giving JR a run for his money not able to fish. The bottom line is if you do not belong you should be fishing one of the shared events as that is all we have left.

Steve Reed · Post by **Steve Reed** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 am

I can't disagree with Robert. Its tough to guage both your talent level and commitment level without a lower division series.

I really don't think there is such a thing as guys that should fish from the front of the boat, I think each person should be able to decided and like Vince said for some its not economically feasible to fish as a pro even if one wanted to. This goes back to the strens that were the minor leagues for the big show.

sro114 · Post by **sro114** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:02 am

I'm a little slow on the uptake, but are you saying that there are not enough boaters for all the co's signed up so some of the co's should sign up as boaters?

Just curious because when I spoke to them yesterday they said they had a ton of co's signed up and wouldn't be able to place them all even with a full field.

I'm glad it's them trying to sort this kind of thing out. I'd be going nuts.

ASD · Post by **ASD** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:16 am

Vince Borrego wrote:Ability has nothing to do with it. It comes down to money at the end of the day. Many people like myself fish as a coangler because they like the competition, but are trying to live within their means.

If I have to decide between fishing as a boater (with the added expense for a new boat payment, entry fee & driving costs) or saving to buy a house & fishing as a coangler then the decision is easy for me. I pick door number 2 and fish as a coangler. I don't come from a wealthy family, have sponsors to pay my expenses or a sugar momma to pay for my toys (although I'm working on the sugar momma part here in Scottsdale).

Even though this is an expensive sport there are ways that you can still compete while not worrying about bills, not living paycheck to paycheck & still save money to buy a house. It just requires some life decisions as to what is really important for you at the end of the day. For me if I can at least break even at the end of the year with my entry fees as a coangler, have fun and make a small dent in the overall cost of the sport then I've had a pretty successful year. This way I can afford to play again another day and continue to have a decent work/life balance.

+ 1

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:49 am

When I started fishing as a co-angler/AAA many years ago one of the first pros that I drew told me the only difference between a Pro/Co is the guy stupid enough to pay more money and the guy smart enough to pay less.

The word on the street is that JR isn't even fishing the Series and that he is going back to fish the Tour with Cody.

Final note is that scared money don't make no money. My wife always reminds me that it costs to be the boss.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:52 am

Robert F wrote:The Guards are supposed to be the top of the heap on EITHER side of the boat. Unfortunately FLW removed the rest of the heap by pulling the Strens. If you think it is easy to fish against Brent Ehrler AND BE COMPETITIVE you"re crazy. Might want to consider guys like JR Wright the smart ones as they fish their level of competition.

You will see very few Co-Anglers that belong fishing the front of the boat in this Series. The problem is you will see A LOT of Co-Anglers in this Series that do not belong fishing against Guard level Co-Anglers like JR.

Fun to watch a bunch of donaters fight to give their money to JR. Sad to watch a bunch of Co-Anglers that should be giving JR a run for his money not able to fish. The bottom line is if you do not belong you should be fishing one of the shared events as that is all we have left.

Robert,

You have it wrong. The other coanglers aren't donating their money to JR. They're donating they're money to me. Everyone else if fishing for second place this year!

Now I just have to figure out how I'm going to sell 3 of the 4 boats they're giving away. Anyone want to pre-order one from me.

If you don't have the mental attitude that you're going to win this event before it even starts, then you're already beat. Are you fishing the Series this year?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:00 am

Ricky-S wrote:Final note is that scared money don't make no money. My wife always reminds me that it costs to be the boss.

I like that quote. I'll have to start using that.

"Like A Boss"
http://www.hulu.com/watch/73454/saturda ... uncensored

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:24 pm

Vince Borrego wrote: Robert,

You have it wrong. The other coanglers aren't donating their money to JR. They're donating they're money to me. Everyone else if fishing for second place this year! Now I just have to figure out how I'm going to sell 3 of the 4 boats they're giving away. Anyone want to pre-order one from me.

If you don't have the mental attitude that you're going to win this event before it even starts, then you're already beat. Are you fishing the Series this year?

JR was just my example because I tried for years to beat him and had little success

I will pre-order that Shasta boat. I am selling mine (may be done right now) I want buy buy a boat for my kid. 10 grand ok?

I am not fishing the Series this year for the reasons I stated months ago. JR is there. I talked to him today. He is confirmed. I hope you beat him so I get that 10 grand boat.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:13 pm

Robert F wrote: JR was just my example because I tried for years to beat him and had little success I will pre-order that Shasta boat. I am selling mine (may be done right now) I want buy buy a boat for my kid. 10 grand ok? I am not fishing the Series this year for the reasons I stated months ago. JR is there. I talked to him today. He is confirmed. I hope you beat him so I get that 10 grand boat.

$12,500 and I'll throw in a t-shirt that says 'I beat JR' to sweeten the deal.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:18 pm

$11,500 and I will give you the shirt.

I'm going after him at the FW Cup.

cleb19 · Post by **cleb19** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Good Luck lol!!!

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:57 pm

cleb19 wrote:Good Luck lol!!!

I know but I can dream.

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:01 pm

Who is JR?? I can guess, but who..

And If your worried about fishing against names then you should stick to clubs...Fish the Fish

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:07 pm

He IS a fish Justin

Ib5g · Post by **Ib5g** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:10 pm

One thing to remember Shasta is Shasta

jwick22 · Post by **jwick22** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:08 pm

No Respect ROBERT!

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:36 pm

I say John Wick wins the thing if he throws my worm

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:24 pm

Hey Robert F, you must be a great angler. To say some of the guy's fishing the event should not be either at the Pro level or the Co-angler level in the Guards is bold. I personally think you are not even at the elite team level on your home waters but that's just me. Don't compare your failures of tournament angling to anyone else because compared to many you are mediocre
Guy Williams.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:05 am

Guy read it again. I said that the Co's that fish the Guards are not on the level of Brent Ehrler. He is ranked number two in the world. Do you see any Co's on that list? I also said many of the Co's fishing the Guards would not be there if the Strens still existed. I stand by my statements.

I may not be an Elite Team fisherman as I fished with pre-teens for partners but I do have some experience fishing FLW events from both sides of the boat. I have a pretty good idea where I stack up against both ends of next year's field. It is good to see you stepping up. Hope you have a successful year. It is a lot of fun.

JT-Madera · Post by **JT-Madera** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:31 am

And then out of the darkness came the Hammer, the wise of the wiser, the best of the best. the anglers angler..to smash Robert F. in the mouth and start the smash mouth personal attack that was uncalled for, but common on this web site...

Then Guy I will say it................."there are anglers fishing the National Guard in both the Pro and Co-Angler fields who don't belong there by virtue of their personal ability..but for a good wife who understands a guy has to do what a guy has to do..or no wife and a lot of extra cash because of no wife.... if there was another choice for these anglers they would not be in the NG..or they just like to donate and get a couple of days expensive guide service.."

To do a personal attack of Robert F. is uncalled for...I don't know him or you but it was unnecessary..
I guess being the CEO of Team Dead Money gives you the right to be disrespectful because you have "maybe" won a couple of bucks in tournaments..... big deal.. it didn't teach you anything about being a good human being..
For some reason "some" anglers think they walk on water and can say pretty much what they want on this web site..well you are wrong..
He is entitled to his opinion.. why has this web site decended to personal attacks as just a everyday thing..
If you disagree with what he says, thats okay..the personal attack to make your point is just wrong on so many levels...

JT

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:52 am

Thank JT. I know I have a opinion

but I too realize it is EVERY persons right to an opinion. Guy included. I think Guy just read some of the words wrong. Guy may also not understand that some of the banter in this thread was between people I know unlike him who I have never met, let alone fished with or against for that matter.

scottsweet · Post by **scottsweet** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:44 am

You know what I find amazing is the flaming of people, including me, by the very same sources ALL the time. It is like they get their jollies off of flaming others and telling everyone their opinion and everyone else is WRONG.

It is ok to have an opinion of course, but there are ways to express it without putting others down. As some have said, this board has become a place to flame others and unfortunately not do its true intention: create friendships, share ideas and get/give information to help others.

My personal opinion, this is a free country with the opportunity to do the things we love. We should all be thankful we have that freedom. Of course that includes the good with the bad, but the old saying goes, do one to others as you would like done to you.

As for FLW and the tournament situation, I have fished the Guard and Stren. I have won tournaments and I know the level of competition from the basic team Pro/Am all the way to the Guard. The Guard is the hardest and most competitive circuit we have in the west right now. There are lots of changes going on for us. For now, the field of choices and levels of competition have changed. The good news is we have choices and NO ONE is twisting anyone's arm to fish any one circuit. So why the flaming?? To what end? Just be thankful and appreciative you have the choice when so many don't!

There is a great saying...."change is inevitable, growth is optional." Perhaps you flamers ought to think hard about this for your 2010 resolution. What makes a great angler are the choices they make on the water, what makes a great person is the growth they achieve by learning from their choices!

Scott

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:07 am

I suppose some of the bashing in the thread raises some pretty compelling questions or maybe just thought provoking.

Do you have to dominate on each level before progressing to the next?

Who's to say when any angler should move from the back seat to the pointy end of the boat besides themselves?

What would the industry be without 'donators', I hate the word, ready to test themselves and build up the cash awards at the same time, just with their presence in the field? Who replaces them if they aren't there? Are there enough 'top level' guys to fill all the fields without the dead money guys entering also?

Does an angler have to experience success with a partner before taking the leap to fishing tournaments on their own?

Just food for thought and/or debate.

sTony

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:27 am

Robert F wrote:The Guards are supposed to be the top of the heap on EITHER side of the boat. Unfortunately FLW removed the rest of the heap by pulling the Strens. If you think it is easy to fish against Brent Ehrler AND BE COMPETITIVE you"re crazy. Might want to consider guys like JR Wright the smart ones as they fish their level of competition.

You will see very few Co-Anglers that belong fishing the front of the boat in this Series. The problem is you will see A LOT of Co-Anglers in this Series that do not belong fishing against Guard level Co-Anglers like JR.

Fun to watch a bunch of donaters fight to give their money to JR. Sad to watch a bunch of Co-Anglers that should be giving JR a run for his money not able to fish. The bottom line is if you do not belong you should be fishing one of the shared events as that is all we have left.

"JR was just my example because I tried for years to beat him and had little success Laughing I will pre-order that Shasta boat. I am selling mine (may be done right now) I want buy buy a boat for my kid. 10 grand ok? Laughing I am not fishing the Series this year for the reasons I stated months ago. JR is there. I talked to him today. He is confirmed. I hope you beat him so I get that 10 grand boat."

I got what wrong? Bottom line is some got in and others did not. The back of the boat is about learning and having fun. Some are going to be better than others but the others have a fighting chance at every event. Not one guy in the back of the boat is out of the tournament before it starts, they all have the same chances of winning or doing well. I say you just disrespected a bunch of us that got in this event/series. I call it the way I see it!! Always have and always will.
Guy Williams

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:51 am

sTony wrote:I suppose some of the bashing in the thread raises some pretty compelling questions or maybe just thought provoking.

Do you have to dominate on each level before progressing to the next?

Who's to say when any angler should move from the back seat to the pointy end of the boat besides themselves?

What would the industry be without 'donators', I hate the word, ready to test themselves and build up the cash awards at the same time, just with their presence in the field? Who replaces them if they aren't there? Are there enough 'top level' guys to fill all the fields without the dead money guys entering also?

Does an angler have to experience success with a partner before taking the leap to fishing tournaments on their own?

Just food for thought and/or debate.

sTony

Good questions Tony. These are general statements. Many of them relating to my opinion of my personal abilities as any. I do not think I am ready to fish as a boater against Guard level competition. Simple as that. Everybody should make that decision on their own. Do you have to dominate before moving up? I say no. Especially when you put it in the context of team fishing versus individual weight. Should you have some base experience before moving to a Guard level event. Hell yeah!!!!!

Speaking from experience as somebody that didn't have a clue what I was getting in to when the first Guard tournament was held at Havasu 3 years ago. Now after fishing 12 of them plus an East/West fishoff I think I am a much better Co-angler. And yes there are tricks of the trade. I stole some from Justin Lucas.

Looking back I should have fished the Strens before I fished the Guards.

Another thing I have seen are guys on the front that should have saved their money for a nice TV to watch the show on Sunday. I have fished with guys that didn't practice one day for the tournament. I have even fished with boaters that have never fished in ANY competition. Those guys should really not be out there. It is not our responsibility to "make" enough players to match the tournament organization's expectation of field size. It is their responsibility to provide a product that matches the market.

On the other side who says that these guys HAVE to move up? I think if you PERSONALLY want to challenge yourself great. If it is about making money you might want to get a job as there is no such thing as Professional Bass fishing.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:09 am

Guy Williams wrote: I got what wrong? Bottom line is some got in and others did not. The back of the boat is about learning and having fun. Some are going to be better than others but the others have a fighting chance at every event. Not one guy in the back of the boat is out of the tournament before it starts, they all have the same chances of winning or doing well. I say you just disrespected a bunch of us that got in this event/series. I call it the way I see it!! Always have and always will.
Guy Williams

Guy, There are 250 Co-anglers signed up for this event? That means at least 100 guys will not get in. I have been PMed by numerous guys that have fished many FLW events that are on the outside looking in. If the Strens still existed there would not be this large of a group trying to fish the only individual weight series on the West Coast. There are many that belong in this event that are not going to fish. There are many in the tournament because there are no Strens to fish. As many will find out and drop off before Mead Strens and Guard are two different levels. If you took it as a personal attack I am sorry. As far as the JR comment highlight, not sure of your point. I have a ton of respect for a guy that is a great Co-angler and a personal friend. We joke back and forth alot. Couple of times this week on the phone. When we are on the water we still want to beat each other. That's the way individual weight works.

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:50 am

I didn't take it as a personal attack but a general attack on those that got in. Sure, lots of guys want to fish. Don't say because one guy didn't get in because of the situation the pool of anglers that did make it in is now lessened. Maybe the guy that got in is better, time will tell. I know you have a ton of respect for JR (so do I and I never met him) but because you didn't do as well as you would have liked does not mean the next guy won't challenge him. This is not about me VS you Robert. It's about the (149?) other Co-anglers you disrespected with your statement "The problem is you will see A LOT of Co-Anglers in this Series that do not belong fishing against Guard level Co-Anglers like JR". . I'm just saying that it was a bad statement because you, me and everyone else does not know who will do well and who won't. That's why we all play the game.
Guy Williams

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:56 am

sTony wrote: What would the industry be without 'donators', I hate the word, ready to test themselves

..............Anyone know how I can get a TeamDeadMoney Shirt to match my LL Hat's ??

leachman90 · Post by **leachman90** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:13 am

I will be fishing my 7th event at Shasta. And I don't think I once ever thought I was fishing against Justin,Pat or any of the other guys. Yes it is true I have not lived up to my own exspectations yet but that not because of those guys.I have had many chances to have good finishes but just haven't sealed the deal. I want those guys to fish and when I win my 1st tournament I want to beat the best. 2yrs ago at Mead I dropped 7 fish on day one most right at the boat. A lot of co's didn't even catch 7 fish let alone lose that many in one day. My point is that I have been beating myself with lack of execution more than getting beat by my fellow anglers. As far as respect, the guys I mentioned deserve all the credit they get. As as far as Justin, he has done nothing but treat me with respect and kindness.GB..Jim

Fast 492 · Post by **Fast 492** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:29 am

FLW called me yasterday because the field is full on the co-angler side and are in need of boaters??

scottsweet · Post by **scottsweet** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:13 pm

sTony wrote:I suppose some of the bashing in the thread raises some pretty compelling questions or maybe just thought provoking.

Do you have to dominate on each level before progressing to the next?

I say no because it is incredibly hard to do and I would almost say nearly impossible on a consistent basis. Even Brent doesn't dominate all the time. To me, one of beauties of sport.

Who's to say when any angler should move from the back seat to the pointy end of the boat besides themselves?

I agree that a boater needs to decide for themselves; however, there should be some level of "qualifying" of some sort. Like Robert has mentioned, I too have fished with boaters who didn't practice or put in the time. Further, I have fished with lots of guys who simply have lots of money and figured they mind as well pay up to fish - they were going fishing for the weekend anyways.

It seems logical that if you are going to put up $700-4000, you ought to know what is going on or why bother throwing the money away. There are situations where a boater simply had some personal things that prevented them from practicing at a single event, however most "pros" do practice to maximize their chance to win.

In my mind, "qualifying" means you have spent time fishing in a certain number of competitive events, of a similar level of competition, as a non-boater to allow one to understand the ropes. One's skill level as a boater to catch fish is something that takes so much time and practice, that competing as a boater falls in to learning how to be a "pro." Boaters didn't become pro's overnight so to speak. Some boaters will never be able to compete at the top 30 level, but they sure are qualified pros.

What would the industry be without 'donators', I hate the word, ready to test themselves and build up the cash awards at the same time, just with their presence in the field? Who replaces them if they aren't there? Are there enough 'top level' guys to fill all the fields without the dead money guys entering also?

I don't think there are enough top level guys to fill a field with the top 30 level type pros. Our sport is simply not big enough. We aren't the PGA tour . I would suggest that all top 30 level pros have been donators in many events. Again, that is the beauty of our sport. Practice does make better, but in our sport, it does not make perfect like in most sports. Even KVD chokes and it isn't because of skills of how to fish or reading the water, or picking the right spot, or whatever.

Does an angler have to experience success with a partner before taking the leap to fishing tournaments on their own?

I think this is an interesting question. I think team fishing is very different than doing things on your own. Those who have fished teams have had many situations where one guy is wacking them and the other can't get bit...for whatever reason. Your decision making processes are different in that situation than if you were fishing on your own. In a team, if one is wacking them and the other isn't you stay and fish. If you are on your own and you aren't wacking them and the other guy on the boat is, you may move on.

Just food for thought and/or debate.

sTony

Tony, these are good questions for sure. I personally haven't moved to the front of the boat in a larger tournament because I don't have the time to put in the practice that I think is warranted for a chance to win. My job and finances don't permit it. I live 100s of miles away from the competition lakes and the logistics makes it very hard. Also, as a coangler, I think the boater has a responsibility to practice to some level and I just can't do it enough right now. Unless you live close to the competition waters and know it really well, a weekend before the tournament is simply not enough. Anglers who do well do so for a reason and it isn't luck!

clayton meyer · Post by **clayton meyer** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:21 am

I don't know if there is a right time by definition. It has to be when you feel you should, but you might not be able until you have everything, (time, money, security and support) The support of your family.

Those guys with no bills put everything on hold and everything on the line to fish these tournaments. Some make it some don't. Some of us get lucky and find a job that allows us to fish. Fewer still get a sponsorship that helps.

I moved up way before I should have and didn't make very much money, spent a fortune. Looking back I should have approached it differently, but I would never give back what I learned on my own. I travled with Rojas and fished with I think it is Mark Kyle.. does that sound right? It was experiences in those two boats that changed how I fished. One bait, one rod. I am not saying fish only a jig. I am saying when you find out what they are eating... give it to them. Why break out the old scuppernong that is stuck to the bottom of your box when they are eating a spinnerbait. ( don't bring up that you need to experiment... we already did)

there is so much that goes on in your head that needs to be addressed, a comfort level that needs to be obtained, confidence that needs to be earned. You can be confident without reason, there isn't anything wrong with it. Related to fishing if you aren't confident because of what you have done in previous tournaments it becomes a different story. even just measuring yourself each year by year end standings or as I did it "who I beat". I would end up in 100th place( I averaged about 90th :) ) and would look at who I beat. Seeing great anglers below me helped me understand how much of a gamble fishing is and how you could fall from so high a position even when the bite was WFO. So when I don't do well my confidence isn't too rattled, it's just part of the game.

I have had some great co anglers in my boat, people that I have learned from.. lessons I will never forget. The lesson seems to always be so basic... fishing fast and not getting bit, slow down etc.

If someone doesn't move up and take a front seat and they make the bar higher, don't worry about it. You only have to improve on yourself and your own bar, eventually everything will fall into place

jfross · Post by **jfross** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:40 am

great read guys, good thinking material for next year and the future of this sport. It does come down to one prime factor, money, money, money, no matter how good you are. Jross

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:22 am

jfross wrote:great read guys, good thinking material for next year and the future of this sport. It does come down to one prime factor, money, money, money, no matter how good you are. Jross

GREAT POINT jross. Too many people for too long have just said, "It's only two-grand, four-grand, whatever. It is two-grand of YOUR money and people would be all pissed off if somebody stole it from them or they paid two-grand too much for a boat. Why should they just donate it to the guys they know are going to win? Not saying everybody that loses is stupid. Just think too many are only sold the winning side. Two-thirds of the field will walk away with nothing.

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:56 am

1st off.........JT.. you said..

To do a personal attack of Robert F. is uncalled for...I don't know him or you but it was unnecessary..
I guess being the CEO of Team Dead Money gives you the right to be disrespectful because you have "maybe" won a couple of bucks in tournaments..... big deal.. it didn't teach you anything about being a good human being..
For some reason "some" anglers think they walk on water and can say pretty much what they want on this web site..well you are wrong..
He is entitled to his opinion.. why has this web site decended to personal attacks as just a everyday thing..
If you disagree with what he says, thats okay..the personal attack to make your point is just wrong on so many levels...

Isnt Robert F dishing out his own personal attack on EVERY Co angler in the field that he doesnt think should be there? I think so..
Roberts "opinion" was flat out disrespectful and Offensive to every Co that paid their money to fish Shasta.
JT its disgusting how bad you contradict yourself in your post... I cant possibly fathom how you could have read Roberts post and not seen the very things you accused Guy of.
Roberts post was very offensive to EVERY CO-ANGLER in the field not named JR. Hell it was offensive to me and Im not even in the tournament.

Robert F....For you to label a Co Angler as a "Donator" is Arrogant, thoughtless and disrespectful..PERIOD!!!
Damn dude, if you are such a good angler to where you actually have the audacity to label a Co Angler a "Donator" then maybe you should man up and fish from the front of the boat. The arrogance you portray in your posts in this thread make me sick. And then to have someone (JT) be so blind to your words and actually condone them makes me even sicker.

Robert... you think that having more money then another guy makes you a better angler. You are WRONG!!
There are ALOT of guys out there, ESPECIALLY, in So Cal that are Top Level anglers, FAR BETTER THAN YOU, that will never get the chance to compete at a higher level because of money restraints.
Robert you said..
"The problem is you will see A LOT of Co-Anglers in this Series that do not belong fishing against Guard level Co-Anglers like JR. "

So basically because the entry is less expensive now you think it will bring in lesser talent?? Thats lame!!! Because you think that, its safe to say that because YOU fished the National Guard series as a co you think that you are a better angler then the guys that fished the Strens as a Co??? That too is lame..

Its this simple, you had the money to pay for the higher entry fees in the Guard series then alot of the guys that fished the Strens...It had NOTHING to do with "Skill level".. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!! Because if you think that you are a better angler then Guy Williams because you fished the Guard series when the entries were higher and hes only fishing them now that they entries are cheaper...YOU ARE SADLY mistaken.
You having the dough to kick down for the higher entry fees is the reason you fished the Guard series...NOT SKILL.
If the Guard entries for Co Anglers would have been less expensive in 2009 then your 7th,18th, 53rd and 72nd place finishes would have looked more like 40th, 80th, last and last place. Because I assure you that there are ALOT of CoAnglers out there with ALOT more skill then you but that dont have as much money to spend on entries...

Robert, you speak without regard for other peoples feelings but yet you want those very people to "respect" your opinion...

How you can be such an elitest is beyond me..ESPECIALLY with such mediocre results.
Thats enough already...

Delta Dan... As far as the Team Dead Money shirts, PM me or Guy and we will get you one... And that goes for G-man too... But we want a LL hat too.

Pete

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:06 am

Wow, you guys are too much..........

Drop it already....

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:33 am

Fishing as a Stren event CO ANGLER is not a stepping stone to fishing the National Guard Co Angler series...
Fishing as a CO ANGLER is the stepping stone to fishing as a PRO..

Robert you said.. " Looking back I should have fished the Strens before I fished the Guards."
Using that logic, maybe you should have fished the WON events as a CoAngler because they were cheaper in price then the Strens???
And if that is the case, then Murph Mcbride should have Fished the Stren Co Angler side and then the National Guard Co Angler side after he did well as a WON CoAngler instead of making the jump to the National Guard PRO side..??? Thats rediculous!!
Fishing as a Co Angler in whichever series is the stepping stone to the PRO ranks, not the stepping stone to the next Co angler series with higher entries..

Pete

619 · Post by **619** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:46 am

Stren is history. Okay! the Stren series is HISTORY. So what! Fish something else. Who cares about how good so and so is. Get out there, find some fish and compete. Rip on the fish not the tournament organization.

Support what you can afford or your schedule allows.

Clayton glad to see you back. Hope to join you and the rest of the 619 crew in the future. We had some fun packing into those cabins at the Delta. Good Times...

Art

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:10 pm

TEAMDEADMONEY wrote: Roberts post was very offensive to EVERY CO-ANGLER in the field not named JR. Hell it was offensive to me and Im not even in the tournament.
JR Wright was just an example as he IS a dominant Co-Angler
Robert F....For you to label a Co Angler as a "Donator" is Arrogant, thoughtless and disrespectful..PERIOD!!!
Better start with your moniker as "Dead Money" or Donater are standard gambling terms for the remainder of the field (two-thirds in this case) who will not cash.
Damn dude, if you are such a good angler to where you actually have the audacity to label a Co Angler a "Donator" then maybe you should man up and fish from the front of the boat. The arrogance you portray in your posts in this thread make me sick. And then to have someone (JT) be so blind to your words and actually condone them makes me even sicker.
May I suggest you consider the fact that Guy, THEN you are doing what you accuse me of doing wrong? It is only OK for you two to not only degrade somebody's place in a tournament, you choose to single me out? Nice form. At least I didn't pin my point on one person's name. MAYBE that is the difference that JT is referencing? BTW I have fished the front. That is why I will not be at Shasta.

Robert... you think that having more money then another guy makes you a better angler. You are WRONG!!
Your words not mine. You might be surprised how little money I have right now. I think that I have fished tournaments that I believe I can get my money (plus expenses) back.
There are ALOT of guys out there, ESPECIALLY, in So Cal that are Top Level anglers, FAR BETTER THAN YOU, that will never get the chance to compete at a higher level because of money restraints.
Robert you said..
"The problem is you will see A LOT of Co-Anglers in this Series that do not belong fishing against Guard level Co-Anglers like JR. "

So basically because the entry is less expensive now you think it will bring in lesser talent?? Thats lame!!! Because you think that, its safe to say that because YOU fished the National Guard series as a co you think that you are a better angler then the guys that fished the Strens as a Co??? That too is lame.
I do think the Guard level Co's are better than the Stren level players. It will show this year as guys that have experience will be on top again. Not saying everybody that has not fished them sucks. Just saying there is a reason why guys like Justin Lucas had the record he did. He is good.

Its this simple, you had the money to pay for the higher entry fees in the Guard series then alot of the guys that fished the Strens...It had NOTHING to do with "Skill level".. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!! Because if you think that you are a better angler then Guy Williams because you fished the Guard series when the entries were higher and hes only fishing them now that they entries are cheaper...YOU ARE SADLY mistaken.
Guy Williams said he is better than me, You have said he is better than me so it must be true. I do not care. I NEVER said I was better than him. Guess that's the difference between "Team Dead Money" and me.
You having the dough to kick down for the higher entry fees is the reason you fished the Guard series...NOT SKILL.
If the Guard entries for Co Anglers would have been less expensive in 2009 then your 7th,18th, 53rd and 72nd place finishes would have looked more like 40th, 80th, last and last place. Because I assure you that there are ALOT of CoAnglers out there with ALOT more skill then you but that dont have as much money to spend on entries... Maybe so, Maybe not. Actually that 7th should have been a first IMO. If you do not think you can win you should not be there right? My first year in the Guards I did not think I could win. Year two and three I did.

Robert, you speak without regard for other peoples feelings but yet you want those very people to "respect" your opinion... How you can be such an elitest is beyond me..ESPECIALLY with such mediocre results. With NO RESULTS OR EXPERIENCE you and your team partner sure do feel you have the right to the same opinion. Why should I be left below you and Guy?
Thats enough already...
Maybe but I am sure you and Guy will have a lot to say about my comments. I wish Guy and ALL the Co-Anglers luck at Shasta.
Pete

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:19 pm

What the hell is "Team Dead Money", is it a company of some sort? Or is it just a couple of guys tagging bathrooms at the local lakes

Whatever the case, I didn't really feel Robert was bashing Co's but just giving his own thought on "Co" competition. As a "Team Dead Money" crew, you guys should take the high road on this and drop it..

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:37 pm

Bigbass111.. Team Dead Money is simply Team Dead Money apparel.. Its just an apparel (Mainly shirts)company that Guy and I have as a hobby. Its not "a couple guys tagging bathrooms at local lakes."

Art...thank you, well said!!!

I wont even begin to comment on Roberts spindoctoring of my questions... its all hogwash as far as Im concerned.. he has shown some ugly true colors...but I guess thats just my opinion..

Good Luck to EVERYBODY fishing the Shasta event as a Co-Angler...and that includes JR, Guy and everybody else who dropped the cheese to get out there and compete... Have fun, stay warm, catch some good ones and let the cards fall where they may!!

Pete

leachman90 · Post by **leachman90** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:50 pm

clayton meyer · Post by **clayton meyer** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:58 pm

Art

The cabins were really nice.

I am going to have fun next week and the next one I don't even have to leave home. I really don't know why people don't like mead. I see it in other posts about poor fishing. we always looked forward to coming here once a year for Won Bass... why is it any different. The fishing is way better than when we started and it is still the biggest lake around.

I'll try to stop by next time I am in town

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:30 pm

or isn't the success of any Co-angler dependant on the Pro they get paired with and where the Pro takes them in the FLW format? If your not on the fish and nowhere around them no matter how good a Co you are your still in dead water. So maybe the good Co's just get great pairing's more than others? Interesting topic. Rick G.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:50 pm

Rick G wrote:or isn't the success of any Co-angler dependant on the Pro they get paired with and where the Pro takes them in the FLW format? If your not on the fish and nowhere around them no matter how good a Co you are your still in dead water. So maybe the good Co's just get great pairing's more than others? Interesting topic. Rick G.

How do you know you're in "dead water"? Just because you're pro isn't catching them doesn't mean you're SOL. That's what separates a good Co angler from the rest of the field. Knowing how to catch fish given any circumstances & keeping your mind focused on the goal. Even if you're pro is sight fishing for 1 fish you still have plenty of water to cast to. You just have to look for opportunities to execute given the circumstances you're presented with. Adapt and overcome.

Tournament fishing is 90% mental, 10% physical. To me the term "dead water" only applies to when you've given up. For a good coangler dead water only applies once you've crossed the finish line and ready to weigh in for the day.

I think everyone remembers when Justin Lucas landed that 10lb+ toad during the FLW Delta event right in front of Russo's on the last cast of the day. That sort of mental focus is what's needed to win -- making sure your first cast and last cast of the day is made with the same level of intensity, focus & determination. In the end the tournament really comes down to how well you execute 5 casts throughout the entire day. In some tournaments even less.

That's what makes this sport exciting for both the front and the back of the boat. 5 casts, 5 fish, 5 bites. Let the weigh master be the final judge.

leachman90 · Post by **leachman90** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:58 pm

But Vince would you agree at all that most co angler winners seem to have had either 1 or 2 great draws(top 10 guys) during a tournament? It does seems that way to me. I do believe having knowlegable draws is always a benefit.

CN · Post by CN » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:02 pm

Rick G wrote:or isn't the success of any Co-angler dependant on the Pro they get paired with and where the Pro takes them in the FLW format? If your not on the fish and nowhere around them no matter how good a Co you are your still in dead water. So maybe the good Co's just get great pairing's more than others? Interesting topic. Rick G.

Then why have them?

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