JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL

[Marty]

A basic concept that shows the truth of the problem!

There are two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both are a family of four - two parents, two children, and live in California.

Joe Legal works in construction - has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose Illegal also works in construction - has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 per hour and in cash "under the table".
Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal makes $25.00 per hour and works 40 hours a week = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal take home pay is $31,231.00.
Jose Illegal makes $15.00 per hour and also works 40 hours a week = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes.
Jose Illegal take home pay is $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now is left with $24,031.00.
Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has the original amount of $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now is left with $18,031.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.
Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline; etc.
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays and Sundays or gets a part time job after work just to make ends meet.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire protection/services, but Joe paid for them where as Jose did not pay.
Do you get it, now?

If you voted for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens then you are part of the problem!
When someone tells you there is no America dream you can honestly tell them they are wrong, you just need to be an Illegal to get it.

[angler2020]

The taxes and math are wrong.

[swank]

so your saying make them all legal...

[Vince E]

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire protection/services, but Joe paid for them where as Jose did not pay.
Do you get it, now?

A great example of why we should privatize all of those services and stop letting govt steal our money and redistribute it.
What we would save in all forms of taxes would allow us to pay into something like a homeowners association that could cover those services. Jose doesn't pay Jose doesn't get.
When employers are no longer saddled with the costs govt imposes to hire employees Jose isn't going to look any better than Joe to them. They will hire who is most qualified.

Then we could stop hating Mexicans for the crime of seeking to improve their lives.

[StockOption]

They can all become legal by following established laws for obtaining American citizenship.

Duh.

Only stupid liberals think the rule of law needs to be selectively applied. Idiots.

[Marty]

The taxes and math are wrong.

Then correct them AO – show us your version of what is correct!

[Marty]

So Scott – where did I say that – your ignorance is starting to show each time you post or reply to a post.

[swank]

one of the biggest differences between republicans and democrats is the ability to decipher sarcasm or humor...

[angler2020]

Joe Legal's taxable income is in the low 30's. Joe legal isn't going to pay 20,000.00 in taxes off of 30 k. Give me a break. So the rest of the Math is wrong after that point. Maybe you should have done the math first before you posted this non sense.

[Marty]

In my hurry to make a point I screwed the pooch on the math, don’t worry it is not the first mistake or will it be my last! But A0 did you get the point of the post?

Scott, you have used the terms “sarcasm and humorâ€

[swank]

i just live in the real world (another division between liberals and conservatives -- liberals address the world as it actually is, not some fantasy of how it should be.) nobody wants "illegal aliens" to have the same rights unless they go thru the proper steps to becoming a u.s. cititzen. But i'm sure you think a big wall and some minutemen could solve the problem.

[StockOption]

LOL

Too funny.

I guess in your "real world" money really does grow on trees?

LOL



I think your post would have made sense if you had said "I watch the Real World".

Please.

[Vince E]

I take it you both support Illegal Immigration, is it to help the poor Mexican or to enslave them with democrats handouts?

I can't fault anyone for trying to improve their lot and it is natural to flee impoverished lands in search of opportunity.
I don't condone breaking laws to do it and I sure don't condone making it that much more attractive to them by offering up free goodies at our expense but a lot of people I know are on a hell bent crusade of hate against these people and that isn't good for anyone. I suspect if the immigration issue went away they would find another outlet for that hate.

All of that said, I believe that barriers to entry in opportunity, in all of forms, are the reason for poverty in the first place. In a world where anyone with an entrepreneurial spirit faced only natural barriers to undertaking a profitable venture the vast opportunities created by repeated multiplicity of that process would render the whole immigration issue moot.

Hating these people is hacking at the branches of the problem while ignoring the root.

[Vince E]

liberals address the world as it actually is, not some fantasy of how it should be.

You have got to be joking. Liberals are to most Utopian minded of the bunch, promoting ideas that can only lead to mass suffering and hardship based on an outright wrong assumption that there exists in this world any human, much less a huge group of them, that won't place his own interests first. The conservatives suffer the same affliction in a different flavor.

[Rod Martin]

*NM*

[Vince E]

As things currently stand:


I'm against govt providing an attractive nuisance to out of control immigration, thus greatly increasing it, by making it so easy for them to abuse our welfare (immoral forced redistribution) system and allowing children born here to automatically be citizens.

I'm against employers deliberately looking the other way when presented a fake SS# or hiring under the table to take advantage of rock bottom wages, thus greatly increasing illegal immigration.

I'm against desperate people being loaded into trucks and trunks in 100+ temps, many dieing, because they are drawn here by the above conditions.

I'm against the sense of hate people can have for another group of people that is fueled by these conditions.


The way things should be:

No welfare system and citizenship is earned later = no attractive nuisance.

No SSI or other burdens on the employer = all employment is effectively under the table. There is no "table". No longer a factor in hiring.

The entire system of barriers to either entering careers or starting enterprises is scrapped (that one is complicated and would be painful for those in protected careers earning above the true value of their services but it could be done) = American products competitive in the world economy again, other counties adjust, everyone's standard of living worldwide raises as capital builds and immigration for the purpose of escaping poverty is greatly reduced. No more reason to hate these people. No reason for immigration laws either when people are more likely to stay in the home they love.
In order for that to be accomplished a complete deconstruction of govt as we know it would be necessary. It is the legalized crime that they bring into existence that is directly responsibly for a whole host of artificial scarcities that favor some at the cost of others and create the desperation poor Americans feel. The other govts of the world do much the same "service" to their people.

If your in one of those protected careers (I am, contractor) you might not like this idea but over time it would make everyone better off. If doctors and drug companies weren't so high on that list we wouldn't be having a health care debate. We wouldn't even have the buzzword "health care". We would just call it going to the doctor.


Or I suppose we could just build a wall around the country to keep us in, er, I mean them out.

I am very much against a totalitarian state and every point of paranoia that we succumb to just adds to the power of that growing state.

[Marty]

I know are on a hell bent crusade of hate against these people and that isn't good for anyone.

Who said anything about hating? Not one person said anything about hating on the above posts! And what do you mean “these peopleâ€

[Vince E]

My apologies senor

I'm not saying your one of the haters but what you posted is the same stuff the haters I know are constantly talking (and emailing) about.

I agree with what you said above.

[Rod Martin]

*NM*

[Marty]

"UCLA and the Times report what we all know: Illegal aliens are exploited.

UCLA and the Times have an answer: more watchdogs, more laws, more costs and more illegal aliens.

I have a simpler answer--enforce our immigration laws.

The illegal aliens CHOOSE to be exploited. They voluntarily sneaked into our country, they voluntarily steal ID's or use phony ID's, they voluntarily take jobs from Americans.

"The surveyed population is representative of about 17% of all workers in Los Angeles County, or almost 750,000 people, the study said. More than half of the participants (56.4%) were undocumented immigrants -- a fact that created a vulnerability exploited by employers, the study said. The great majority, almost 75%, were Latino. Almost 60% said they had less than a high school education."

Yes, the business that hired these folks need to be punished--but illegal aliens set themselves up to be exploited and academia and the fringe media refuses to note that fact."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... rint.story

[Vince E]

I have to agree with Marty's post but I have to add a qualifying statement.

If we compare immigration to the financial collapse we can see that "doing something" in a panic is often the wrong answer.
We should have done nothing except address the underlying problems. People who actually understand the underlying problems should do their best to tell everyone they can get to listen what those problems are. What we did was the opposite. Prop up the status quo, continue obfuscating the root of the problems and then lay blame on the wrong people.

Any rush to address immigration beyond enforcing what we already have is apt to be running the same kind of plays with the same results.

The roots of both problems are the same. Our financial system and those who manipulate it for their own ends. Any rash action just plays into their hands. Just ask those guys at Goldman Sachs.



On an interesting side note I saw a video describing how the world is under a slow takeover of Islam based of the fertility rates of different countries. They breed more than we do and its a key element in why they are taking over EU states.
In America, Christianity is being supported in this "battle" in no small part by our friends from the south bringing their beliefs with them as they sneak in.