FLW Team deal, not such a good thing afterall

[DL]

Saw this article on Bassfan. Apparently two long time pro's don't think its such a good deal after all. After all the talk about FLW not allowing pro's to show their sponsors that AREN'T FLW sponsor's, I thought this was pretty interesting to read...



When you think about core FLW Tour pros, several names come to mind – David Dudley, Darrell Robertson, Clark Wendlandt, Dave Lefebre. The list goes on. And certainly, somewhere on that list, are the names Craig Powers and Koby Kreiger – both career FLW Tour pros who're widely regarded as unsurpassed in their areas of specialty.

Both are versatile, yes, but Kreiger could easily be called the best sight-fisherman on either tour, and CP's certainly one of the most, if not the most, accurate casters in the sport – deadly with a topwater and crank.

In fact, CP's also a highly coveted hardbait maker and painter who does custom jobs for several top tour pros.

Each has fished for an FLW sponsor team over roughly the past 4 years, but BassFan recently learned stunning news – both have withdrawn from the FLW Tour. But it's not entirely for the reasons one would immediately assume.

Yes, finances are a factor, but both anglers stated the main reason they've withdrawn from the Tour is the way they've been treated this fall by FLW Outdoors officials.

They both realize that by speaking their minds they've likely given up any future opportunity to join an FLW sponsor team, but their resolve is such that the truth, as they see it, must be told.

And in their statements, for the first time, fans can glimpse the shadowy, inner workings of FLW Outdoors team deals. For example, it might come as a surprise that both anglers were prohibited from talking to their corporate sponsor. They're only allowed to talk to the FLW Outdoors official who's in charge of the FLW team deals.

The whole experience has left both pros wondering if they made the right choice many years ago to accept a team deal, and if their career interests would have been better served fishing as independent pros, or with BASS.

Background

Powers and Kreiger are tight on and off they water – they're buddies and running partners who enjoy one of the best-known friendships on tour.

They both came up the hard way – BFLS to Strens to the Tour.

Kreiger's fished nearly 200 FLW events – Powers more than 150.

Kreiger also fished 32 BASS events – Invitationals plus the 2003 Classic – and cashed a check in 19 of them. He's easily been one of the most active fishermen in the sport over the past 15-odd years. (Powers has fished four BASS events.)

Their patience finally paid off about 4 years ago when they both landed FLW team deals with Proctor & Gamble. Kreiger started with Gain, then moved to Prilosec, then last year fished for Iams. Powers started with Bounty, moved to Prilosec, then last year fished for Fabreze.

But starting in August of this year, shortly after the Forrest Wood Cup, their relationships with FLW Outdoors turned cold. That's when significant questions surfaced about the sponsorship future of the league, and one by one sponsors began to cut back or pull out – Walmart, Land O'Lakes, Pure Fishing, BP, Kellogg's.

That of course led to questions about the status of a Proctor & Gamble team, which was already down to roughly half the size it had been a few years prior.

But according to Kreiger and Powers, neither could get as much as a heads-up about their sponsor status for 2010.

Pay First, Then Wait

"Through the years I've supported FLW in every way possible," Powers told BassFan. "There's no way I'd ever have been able to earn $1 million bass fishing if not for them. That's the good part. The bad part is, to this day, they still have yet to call any of us and tell us whether or not we have team deals. Or that they're working on it. We've heard nothing and they've basically hung us out to dry. At the very worst, I think we deserve a courtesy call."

What especially irks Powers is he called to inquire about the status of his P&G sponsorship and got what he felt was a cold reply.

"Last year at this time, every night when I laid down to bed, I was sitting there worrying. I'd already put in my $10,000 deposits. What if I didn't get a team deal? I'd need another $4,000 per tournament. That's all I could think about before bed. So back in August I said I wasn't going to worry about it anymore. What they told us (during fall) was, 'We need to support their trail' and pay our entry fees, then see if we get a team deal.

"Well you know what? I've supported their trail for 13 years," Powers added. "I know ballpark what the sponsors are paying and somebody has made a lot of money off their trail. Congratulations to them, but I'm done bending over backwards to please them. I'm just not doing it anymore."







Photo: BassFan
Koby Kreiger, arguably the premier sight-fisherman in the sport today, is upset – he says a simple heads-up call from FLW Outdoors would have been appreciated.


Kreiger feels much the same way.

"Fishing is my life – it's my career," Kreiger told BassFan. "It's how I pay my bills and support my wife and pay for our house. And when myself and several other guys contact FLW, and basically get blank stares, or an 'I don't know what's going on' type of answer, it's pretty hard to plan your future. We never get any answers, no calls – none of us. FLW could simply call and say, 'Hey, we just want to update you sponsor-wise. It's not looking too good and you may want to search out and see if you can find any sponsors.'

"We don't get any of those phone calls," Kreiger added. "What we get is, 'If you don't have your entry fees paid, you cannot be considered for a sponsorship deal.' That's what we get. And when you can't get any answers to plan your livelihood, it makes you sort of have a sour taste in your stomach."

The Sponsor Team Dilemma

Powers is also a little miffed that he was told by an FLW Outdoors official that he "needed to do a better job of promoting himself," to gain additional sponsors, he said. But of course, as an FLW team member, he's restricted to largely promoting that sponsor, and under the FLW Outdoors logo policy, he can't display non-FLW sponsors when it matters most – on TV days.

He understands too that it was his choice to head down the sponsor-team road, but it's also his choice to remove himself from that stressful road right now and rebuild stability on his own.

Kreiger likewise has had enough of the waiting and worrying. He again referenced the phone conversations he had with FLW officials as an example of the precarious nature of accepting an FLW team deal. At once you've got a deal worth $35,000 or more with paid entry fees, but at the same time, your future lies entirely in the hands of a single league official or two.

"I had another discussion later with another FLW official and told him I was leaning toward not fishing unless they gave me a sponsor deal," Kreiger said. "I was told to call another official to find out what was going on sponsorship-wise. I made that call and the first thing I was told was, if my deposits weren't paid, there's no way they can consider me. And I was told that with the economy and the state of the fishing industry, this was a time I needed to step up and support FLW because they've supported me in the past.

"I told the official that if you go back and check records, I've fished FLW and paid my own way a whole lot longer than FLW has supported or sponsored me, and in my opinion, with the economy being so bad and me being one of the elite anglers on the Tour, maybe it's time they step up and support me more than they've done in the past.

"They didn't like that comment."

Notable

> Neither Kreiger nor Powers know if P&G will return as an FLW Outdoors sponsor in 2010, although late confirmation of a sponsor renewal wouldn't be a surprise. Kreiger got his first deal with Gain in April, and it was a 2-year contract. Last year he didn't get a thumbs-up for Prilosec until mid-January.

> FLW Outdoors team deals are reportedly run through Aaron Hall – an FLW Outdoors employee charged with angler management who has his office at Ranger headquarters in Flippin, Ark.

> Both pros have begun new, private businesses as they draw down their fishing activity. More on that, and more on the inner workings of team deals, in part 2.

When you think about core FLW Tour pros, several names come to mind – David Dudley, Darrell Robertson, Clark Wendlandt, Dave Lefebre. The list goes on. And certainly, somewhere on that list, are the names Craig Powers and Koby Kreiger – both career FLW Tour pros who're widely regarded as unsurpassed in their areas of specialty.

Both are versatile, yes, but Kreiger could easily be called the best sight-fisherman on either tour, and CP's certainly one of the most, if not the most, accurate casters in the sport – deadly with a topwater and crank.

In fact, CP's also a highly coveted hardbait maker and painter who does custom jobs for several top tour pros.

Each has fished for an FLW sponsor team over roughly the past 4 years, but BassFan recently learned stunning news – both have withdrawn from the FLW Tour. But it's not entirely for the reasons one would immediately assume.

Yes, finances are a factor, but both anglers stated the main reason they've withdrawn from the Tour is the way they've been treated this fall by FLW Outdoors officials.

They both realize that by speaking their minds they've likely given up any future opportunity to join an FLW sponsor team, but their resolve is such that the truth, as they see it, must be told.

And in their statements, for the first time, fans can glimpse the shadowy, inner workings of FLW Outdoors team deals. For example, it might come as a surprise that both anglers were prohibited from talking to their corporate sponsor. They're only allowed to talk to the FLW Outdoors official who's in charge of the FLW team deals.

The whole experience has left both pros wondering if they made the right choice many years ago to accept a team deal, and if their career interests would have been better served fishing as independent pros, or with BASS.

Background

Powers and Kreiger are tight on and off they water – they're buddies and running partners who enjoy one of the best-known friendships on tour.

They both came up the hard way – BFLS to Strens to the Tour.

Kreiger's fished nearly 200 FLW events – Powers more than 150.

Kreiger also fished 32 BASS events – Invitationals plus the 2003 Classic – and cashed a check in 19 of them. He's easily been one of the most active fishermen in the sport over the past 15-odd years. (Powers has fished four BASS events.)

Their patience finally paid off about 4 years ago when they both landed FLW team deals with Proctor & Gamble. Kreiger started with Gain, then moved to Prilosec, then last year fished for Iams. Powers started with Bounty, moved to Prilosec, then last year fished for Fabreze.

But starting in August of this year, shortly after the Forrest Wood Cup, their relationships with FLW Outdoors turned cold. That's when significant questions surfaced about the sponsorship future of the league, and one by one sponsors began to cut back or pull out – Walmart, Land O'Lakes, Pure Fishing, BP, Kellogg's.

That of course led to questions about the status of a Proctor & Gamble team, which was already down to roughly half the size it had been a few years prior.

But according to Kreiger and Powers, neither could get as much as a heads-up about their sponsor status for 2010.

Pay First, Then Wait

"Through the years I've supported FLW in every way possible," Powers told BassFan. "There's no way I'd ever have been able to earn $1 million bass fishing if not for them. That's the good part. The bad part is, to this day, they still have yet to call any of us and tell us whether or not we have team deals. Or that they're working on it. We've heard nothing and they've basically hung us out to dry. At the very worst, I think we deserve a courtesy call."

What especially irks Powers is he called to inquire about the status of his P&G sponsorship and got what he felt was a cold reply.

"Last year at this time, every night when I laid down to bed, I was sitting there worrying. I'd already put in my $10,000 deposits. What if I didn't get a team deal? I'd need another $4,000 per tournament. That's all I could think about before bed. So back in August I said I wasn't going to worry about it anymore. What they told us (during fall) was, 'We need to support their trail' and pay our entry fees, then see if we get a team deal.

"Well you know what? I've supported their trail for 13 years," Powers added. "I know ballpark what the sponsors are paying and somebody has made a lot of money off their trail. Congratulations to them, but I'm done bending over backwards to please them. I'm just not doing it anymore."







Photo: BassFan
Koby Kreiger, arguably the premier sight-fisherman in the sport today, is upset – he says a simple heads-up call from FLW Outdoors would have been appreciated.


Kreiger feels much the same way.

"Fishing is my life – it's my career," Kreiger told BassFan. "It's how I pay my bills and support my wife and pay for our house. And when myself and several other guys contact FLW, and basically get blank stares, or an 'I don't know what's going on' type of answer, it's pretty hard to plan your future. We never get any answers, no calls – none of us. FLW could simply call and say, 'Hey, we just want to update you sponsor-wise. It's not looking too good and you may want to search out and see if you can find any sponsors.'

"We don't get any of those phone calls," Kreiger added. "What we get is, 'If you don't have your entry fees paid, you cannot be considered for a sponsorship deal.' That's what we get. And when you can't get any answers to plan your livelihood, it makes you sort of have a sour taste in your stomach."

The Sponsor Team Dilemma

Powers is also a little miffed that he was told by an FLW Outdoors official that he "needed to do a better job of promoting himself," to gain additional sponsors, he said. But of course, as an FLW team member, he's restricted to largely promoting that sponsor, and under the FLW Outdoors logo policy, he can't display non-FLW sponsors when it matters most – on TV days.

He understands too that it was his choice to head down the sponsor-team road, but it's also his choice to remove himself from that stressful road right now and rebuild stability on his own.

Kreiger likewise has had enough of the waiting and worrying. He again referenced the phone conversations he had with FLW officials as an example of the precarious nature of accepting an FLW team deal. At once you've got a deal worth $35,000 or more with paid entry fees, but at the same time, your future lies entirely in the hands of a single league official or two.

"I had another discussion later with another FLW official and told him I was leaning toward not fishing unless they gave me a sponsor deal," Kreiger said. "I was told to call another official to find out what was going on sponsorship-wise. I made that call and the first thing I was told was, if my deposits weren't paid, there's no way they can consider me. And I was told that with the economy and the state of the fishing industry, this was a time I needed to step up and support FLW because they've supported me in the past.

"I told the official that if you go back and check records, I've fished FLW and paid my own way a whole lot longer than FLW has supported or sponsored me, and in my opinion, with the economy being so bad and me being one of the elite anglers on the Tour, maybe it's time they step up and support me more than they've done in the past.

"They didn't like that comment."

Notable

> Neither Kreiger nor Powers know if P&G will return as an FLW Outdoors sponsor in 2010, although late confirmation of a sponsor renewal wouldn't be a surprise. Kreiger got his first deal with Gain in April, and it was a 2-year contract. Last year he didn't get a thumbs-up for Prilosec until mid-January.

> FLW Outdoors team deals are reportedly run through Aaron Hall – an FLW Outdoors employee charged with angler management who has his office at Ranger headquarters in Flippin, Ark.

> Both pros have begun new, private businesses as they draw down their fishing activity. More on that, and more on the inner workings of team deals, in part 2.

http://www.bassfan.com/news_article.asp?id=3488

[bigbass111]

Most of that is nothing new. I know several guys back east that turned down Team deals offered becasue they were not worth it and you had ZERO abilities to talk to your own sponsor. And 75% of those guys make ZERO from the sponsor and only a portion to entry....

[Robert F]

Another bunch of ungratefuls in my eyes. How about the rest of the field that never get an entry fee paid let alone a vehicle and expenses? Team deals are tightening up but they also may come back. These guys expected they had gotten a civil service job and are just now realizing that they are no better than the rest.

Look at how hard some of these guys with deals work. Justin hosts College fishing, Clifford visits Guard facilities, I am sure there are others that do much more. Sounds like FLW told them that they weren't doing a thing to promote their team.

It's a job boys. You just show up and go through the paces with any job, especially a contract job like a sponsor deal, it is over when the contract ends. FLW or not.

[DL]

The part that stood out in my mind was them having to put down their deposits and then wait to find out if they had a deal. This whole thing is beginnig to sound like the small time garage band that is just happy to get a record deal only to find out after they sell 400,000 records that they only get 10% of the profits because they didnt read the fine print...

[Steve Reed]

I wish FLW would just tell the anglers how much these sponsors are paying to be with the company. Its a lot of money and very little is seen by the anglers.

I'm not saying the deals aren't fair because honestly they are pretty good deals for the anglers, but in the end FLW makes a LOT of money off them.

There's enough money that if the PAA could get their act together every guy on the top level would be paid to fish tournaments and make the money from the purses.

You need a pay to play 75%-80% payback minor league system, more publicity in form of: magazine, television, and websites, more spectator events that doesn't necessarily mean a tournament, and a NATIONAL tour.

I think a tour like that could generate 50-65k (before any personal deal sponsor dollars) for each angler and free entry with large purses.

I agree with Robert though. People need to be willing to really work for the company. Like any salaried employee they need to bring something to the table.

[Robert F]

Everybody that fishes the Tour puts down their deposits. Same with the Elite series guys or the Texas Strens. These guys just thought they were more important to the company than the company thought they were. FLW may feel the effect as guys leave and do not fill the fields. Maybe not. There are a lot of people stupid enough to fish year after year in the personal red. Fact is there are very few that will ever make a real living with a fishing rod. Same goes for many desirable jobs.

I was a newspaper photographer for my first career. My last "interviewed" job had over 100 applicants for one job opening that last opened five plus years before. Do you think that job paid anything? When you can find hundreds of people willing to take a job the company has a huge advantage in making the rules.

These guys have desirable jobs. Every entrant in the tournament would take a team deal. Add to that the hundreds that can't even fish because they do not have the money? Huge number of people FLW can pick from. Powers and Kreiger are lucky to get what they got.

Tom Leogrande had a great idea in a discussion him and I had about Tour events. Make the Tour a no entry, qualification series with your performance in the lower events providing the purses. Sponsor money only goes to operation. He is doing a smaller scale thing with the CBC. It may be the new model for a real PROFESSIONAL bass fishing league. No more buying your way in to the bigs like the past. Thing is it will be like any real job. You better be good or you lose your ride.

[bigbass111]

Fact is, most of these guys could probably make more without the Team Deals. But, with FLW you cannot make your own name without the only way possible "FLW Shirt's". If you cannot support your TRUE paying sponsors you believe in, then "The Shirt" is the only way you can make a name for yourself in FLW.

That is the only reason I will not support them. Wearing a shirt to promote the pockets of Irwin never suited me well. The amount of money FLW requires to put together a "Sponsor Team" is crazy. Then the guys FLW recruits for the team get such a small percentage it shows FLW really could care less about the angler. And to back that, they tell you "If you don't like it, someone else will take it" so thats all I needed to hear.

[littlebailey]

Corporate sponsorship is all about red tape! Ive been there and done that and all they want is their name on tv. They dont care i your Tiger Woods or Brett Hite. They want TV time. Now that VS isnt being seen on over 20 millions Boob tubes, thats 20 million eyes that wont see the corporate sponsors. This is all run by tv folks. I see why they are all pullin out. VS was the worst decision they could have made. Comcast has full control of it and wont let Directv people watch it. Thats a lot of eyes not watching.

[bigbass111]

PART 2

Koby Kregier said he's grateful for the opportunities that FLW Outdoors has provided him in the past, but he certainly doesn't think the feeling is mutual. In fact, he feels a deep lack of respect from several of the league's top officials.

He found it hard to characterize his current emotions – whether the feeling is sadness, frustration, disappointment – but did say: "For all the effort and time that I've put into my career, and the other anglers put into their careers, the lack of communication we get from FLW Outdoors is mind-boggling.

"We choose to support them at the professional level, but we're kept in the dark so much and don't know what's going on – it's disappointing when you call there to try to get some direction in your life and you can't even get an answer other than, 'If you don't give us your money, you're not going to be considered for a sponsorship team.' It blows my mind."

Powers paints a picture of limited communication as well, but surprisingly, he said he wasn't even allowed to talk with his sponsors at P&G. That seems to run counter to the first tenet of sponsorship – communicate with your supporters.

"It was strictly forbidden," Powers noted. "A rep from their company (P&G) or an outside company would come in and manage the team. For the first couple years, once a year, we'd have a dinner at P&G headquarters in Rogers, Ark., but it was more like an employee thing. That was it.

"I could say everything's fine and dandy, blah blah blah, but then in the morning when I go to shave, I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror," Powers added. "And I guarantee talking to BassFan like this will blackball me forever, but there's something I definitely want to say. I appreciate everything that Charlie Evans and Bill Taylor have done. Most of the stuff I'm really upset about involves Aaron Hall. He's in Flippin, Ark. Charlie has nothing to do with team deals, but how smart that – the CEO of the company has nothing to do with team deals?"

Other Team Irregularities

It's been argued by many pros that the very existence of league-sponsored anglers at the least suggests the possibility of impropriety.

First is the selection of team members, which is based in part on performance – Powers noted that the P&G team was trimmed back based on Tour points – but just as often on other factors.

What those factors are remain a mystery – both to the public and the pros – but it's no secret that anglers who regularly finish in the bottom 20% of the field are often offered team deals.

As well, several situations over the past few years have raised accusations of preferred treatment for team pros. First their was the Norman incident, then Kentucky Lake this year, when three non-team anglers were DQd or penalized (Mike Hawkes, Sean Hoernke and Jerry Green), while one team angler (Alvin Shaw) was administered at least one, but perhaps several polygraphs and not DQd.

Both Powers and Kreiger confirmed what BassFan has heard in off-the-record comments for several years – that a feeling of unequal treatment under the rules has been growing among the tour pros. And the league's unwillingness to offer detailed explanations of rulings and non-rulings has fueled such speculation.

What Next?

Powers and Kreiger aren't without plans.

Kreiger recently purchased Okeechobee Fishing Headquarters and will operate that business moving forward.

Powers, who owns a few Domino's Pizza franchises, is ramping up to start a new hardbait company. He'll sell his custom-made and painted hardbaits for $15 each.

Craig Powers wonders where his career would be right now if he'd chosen to fish BASS instead of FLW.

"I live, eat and breathe fishing," Kreiger said. "When I made the decision not to fish (the Tour) anymore, I needed a source of income. With purchasing the bait store, I still get to stay in the industry and talk to a lot of the people I know. That's how I plan to make my living – fishing tournaments and running a bait store."

Kreiger will fish the Eastern FLW Series this year – the first event's on Okeechobee – and he'll fish the Bassmaster Northern and Southern Opens. If he can qualify for the Elite Series, he said he'd fish there in 2011.

About his plans, Powers said his first baits will be "little bitty balsa flatsides. I know how to build them right and now I have an opportunity to market them the right way. I've got a good enough reputation that if I design something, build it and put my name on it, that ought to count for something.

"I was trained by Sonny McFarland, who makes the Flat Shad," Powers added. "He's the best homemade crank-builder there is and he taught me a ton about how to build and paint and keep them consistent. So I'm doing everything from start to finish. I'm cutting it out, putting it together, painting it and there'll be no price-gouging. Everywhere you see one, it'll be $14.99."

In terms of fishing, Powers is largely out for this season. He'll stay planted at home in Rockwood, Tenn.

"I think I'll probably cherrypick around on a few tournaments," Powers noted. "I think you'll be able to get into about any tournament you want to. I might fish a few of the Strens (now American Fishing Series), maybe a Series tournament or whatever. I've got a couple of sponsor things going on right now where I might be able to get a couple entry fees paid for. But if it costs me out of my pocket at all to go fish, I'll stay at home."

The bottom line is both pros feel that, after a long journey, they've wound up right back where they were at the very beginning of their Tour campaign more than a decade ago. They're no closer to a stable pro career, and their sponsor portfolios are a shadow of what they might be.

"If I'd have chosen to fish BASS instead of FLW back in 2003, and had as much success, I think I'd have been a whole lot better off right now sponsor- and career-wise, because it seems to me like BASS publicizes their fishermen a whole lot better than FLW," Kreiger said.
Powers noted: "I'd like to know where I'd be right now if I started fishing BASS 10 years ago instead of FLW."

[Robert F]

Kreiger could have bombed out of BASS the first year like many others have before him. Plenty of FLW fishermen do well with their outside sponsors. One good example is Brent Ehrler's LuckyCraft deal. Too many of these guys look at the team deals as pensions. BASS does not help any more than FLW. The only difference is BASS tells you you are not going to get anything from their sponsor packages.

Need proof? Ask anybody who doesn't fish who Skeet Reese and LuckyCraft are. Crickets. Anybody fortunate enough to fish let alone guarantee you do not have to put out your own money should be grateful. Professional bass fishing is not a career unless you are one of maybe 5 guys that have Icon status. I bet the first year Skeet Reese stops fishing he needs to hit up Jimmy for a MonaVie biz.

[bigbass111]

Have you qualified for the Elites and worked with BASS's people Robert???

BASS does try to help every PRO out with full Media disclosure packets, Numbers to all their trail sponsors and guidlines to proper resumes and and Sponsor packages. On top of that, they make you Pro-active by enforcing wraps and self promotion.

Ohh, and all those FLW guys do not get their entries paid. Alot of them get discounts and boat use. Only select guys get there entries paid++...

Fact is, if your going to make a living out of fishing. Having control of your future is better than someone sitting at a desk in Flippin Ark.....

[Robert F]

Don't have to qualify for the Elites to see the number of guys that have passed on the opportunity or flunked out. FLW has the same media packages and help. I have been working on sponsors through their resources. Neither will get you a deal without your own sweat and both are a combination of hard work and luck. Probably why you are not fishing the Elites. All goes back to one of my first comments. This is just an opportunity to play for money. Team deals suck but they are far better than no deal at all.

[bigbass111]

I haven't been fishing much for the past 5 years due to everything going to my wife's Medical School expenses. Now that she's a Doctor in residency I can now START the process over and focus on fishing in the near future. And I can assure you FLW will not be on my radar unless they change their policy on Anglers promoting themselves.

Because no matter what you say about FLW helping you, I dont see it, and know one I know see's it either (unless it benefits FLW too). I would rather fail with myself at the wheel, and I would rather wear my own shirts representing ME. So go ahead and believe in what you think works and I'll focus on my own checks. Because a small discount on entries and USE of a boat wearing someone else's profits dont work with me.

[Robert F]

I sure do not see FLW helping me Justin. I am just saying that anybody that fishes FLW would love to have anything that a team deal provides. Hope you can get out there and tear it up. Just remember it is not a job, it is an activity that you hope does not cost you money.

[bigbass111]

Your right 100%....

[ash]

The part that stood out in my mind was them having to put down their deposits and then wait to find out if they had a deal. This whole thing is beginnig to sound like the small time garage band that is just happy to get a record deal only to find out after they sell 400,000 records that they only get 10% of the profits because they didnt read the fine print...

Bing bing bing we have a winner.....great analogy and see how rich bands are getting these days? Come on in here boy have a cigar, you know your going to go far.... and did we tell you the name of the game boy, its called ride the gravy train....

what if Nascar guys were told pay up to race this year and i'll call you if we find someone who will sponsor you?

Good for these guys to take a stand and ask for a little respect in return....its a tough market but I could never work for someone that said pay me 10g's right now and I'll let you know how much you will have to pay me later to work here.....if its a job its the #$%est contract in town.

[ash]

I sure do not see FLW helping me Justin. I am just saying that anybody that fishes FLW would love to have anything that a team deal provides. Hope you can get out there and tear it up. Just remember it is not a job, it is an activity that you hope does not cost you money.

It's a job boys. You just show up and go through the paces with any job, especially a contract job like a sponsor deal, it is over when the contract ends. FLW or not.

Well which is it a job or an activity. I think the schedule and commitments they have along with their W2 or I9's at the end of the year would clearly show that its a job, not an activity.

[bigbass111]

Blaukat bows out 1/11/2010






Randy Blaukat told BassFan that he will not fish the FLW Tour this year for many of the same reasons that fellow departing veterans Craig Powers and Koby Kreiger have detailed in a two-part BassFan feature published last Friday and today.

[N.A.R]

At the end of the day, these guys are putting their lively hood in the hands of WalMart. Take the money as quickly as you can. But never forget its WALMART!

What I never understood was why Irwin charged Walmart for sponsorship? Are you kidding me? These "shirt" companies couldn't give a ratts arse about fishing, all they wanted was shelf space at Wallyworld. As you can see how quickly they jumped ship without Walmart. So why charge Walmart? I believe Irwin had a GREAT thing going but just let it get out of control.

[Rick G]

And for every Randy B, Craig P and Koby K, who have had their chance at success in the derby game and not done well enough to either make enough to pay their own way with out FLW's help there will be a Justin Lucas or a Stetson Blaylock to take their place. Out with the old and in with the new. Deal with it. This is a young guys game and those guys had their chance. Look at John Murray. Pays his own way to the Elites, BECAUSE HE SAVES HIS WINNINGS TO MAKE SURE HE CAN AFFORD IT AND BACKS IT UP ON THE WATER. No complaints either. Want a KVD deal beat him in the standings like Skeet and Ike have. Rick G.

[Robert F]

I sure do not see FLW helping me Justin. I am just saying that anybody that fishes FLW would love to have anything that a team deal provides. Hope you can get out there and tear it up. Just remember it is not a job, it is an activity that you hope does not cost you money.

It's a job boys. You just show up and go through the paces with any job, especially a contract job like a sponsor deal, it is over when the contract ends. FLW or not.[/quote

Well which is it a job or an activity. I think the schedule and commitments they have along with their W2 or I9's at the end of the year would clearly show that its a job, not an activity.

Team deal is a job. Justin is bootstrapping a BASS gig. It is not a job when you are paying your own way. Two different conversations Ash.

[bigbass111]

Robert,

How can you say Team deals are a job but Independent Sponsors are not. In any sport Sponsors are dealt with the same way with relationships, hard work and promoting. If anything promoting yourself is much more of a job then a Team deal. In fact what kind of job is the team deal anyway?? For one, you can't even speak to your sponsor. Second, if it was really a job all of the anglers on team deals would have an income (which MOST don't). For the most part, a few picture shoots and pro days are all thats needed.

Also you guys mention people like Brent and say look he has Lucky Craft and other paying sponsors. Which is true, but what if he took the BASS route years ago? Would he have bombed out, or would he have MULTIPLE "Lucky Craft title sponsors" and be making SKeet, Ike and KVD monies.
But either way, I think Team and Independent sponsor routes is a Full time job. And money IS there to be made, once you learn how this game works.

P.S. Robert, b/k boats are not the best route to take for investments..... j/k

[Robert F]

P.S. Robert, b/k boats are not the best route to take for investments..... j/k

With ya there Justin.

Yes, if you get sponsors you will be working but it seemed to me that you were doing the BASS thing out of your pocket. Everybody should consider it a business but for most (like me) it is nothing but an activity that you hope to at least get your money back.

Brent is a superstar/ IMO he would make good money as a BASS angler but he may be making more with the deeper paybacks and wins on the FLW trails. Add to it he gets his entries, expenses AND show-up money? Sounds like a good start to the year.

[bigbass111]

Ok, but how do you really know what he makes team wise??? I personally need to see it to believe it. Knowing EX team guys I can tell you ALOT of them fib about what they get.

But, I hope for his sake he does get good money. But knowing how FLW operates most of their guys, I would think to the leaner.

If you look at the payouts there about the same, even more now. You guys always add the contingencies like its payout from FLW, it's not. And it never should have been shown for that matter. If everyone CANNOT win it then it's not purse.
So go find out Skeeter Money, Triton Gold, Toyota money and all other extras and add them to the Elite's purse, what'ya got now. Then add the PERSONAL BONUSES these guys have with THEIR own sponsors and lets see the additionals...I dont see really anyone on FLW able to make much more with other sponsors due to the retarded MANDATORY shirts on film day.

I know I wouldn't sponsor anyone on FLW, who would see my logo.....

Fact is, the only one who knows what their really getting in both leagues is the Angler himself...

[kb]

"out with the old in with the new, it is a young guys game deal with it"

Damn Rick that is tough one to swallow. Try to finance one of those young guys on a $60,000 boat and see how far you get. Now I am sure that you don't tell that 50 year old guy buying that Z521 that same thing when he tells you he is going to fish the Series and try to make it to the tour do you.????????

kb

[JT-Madera]

out with the old in with the new, it is a young guys game deal with it"

Damn Rick that is tough one to swallow. Try to finance one of those young guys on a $60,000 boat and see how far you get. Now I am sure that you don't tell that 50 year old guy buying that Z521 that same thing when he tells you he is going to fish the Series and try to make it to the tour do you.????????

kb
_________________+1

kb if Rick lost all the 50Plus guys who think they are still going to make it fishing bass tournaments he would go broke....it's dream that less then 5% of anglers any age live out, but he still keeps selling boats

JT

[Rick G]

the question is not about who can afford to go. It is about why these guys lose their deals. FLW has always been looking for a certain demographic for their team guys. Younger, up and comers are what they like. Those other guys had their chance. Do I agree they have a right to be bitter? Sure. But my guess is the youth movement and performance are what they are looking for. This is a time of "What have you done for me lately". Just my .02. Rick G.

[bigbass111]

Thats True Rick, but the problem here is the sly way FLW treats them. This has nothing to do with up and comimg guys.

FLW simply would NOT tell them what was going on...They wanted these guys to pay and just hope they keep the team deal. Thats really screwed up if you ask me. If FLW was going to replace these guys like you think, why wouldn't FLW say hey sorry guys but your out. But they didn't do that did they!!! They said PAY NOW and support us and we will see if we're going to help you...

I think (My .02 cents) FLW is screwed. They don't even know whats teams are even going to be formed. But they want their money thats for sure. And if they did know the teams were staying as sponsors then why not tell them your ok or your out....

I am glad that zero of my money has gone to them. The few BFL's I fished in FL were last minute come and we'll pay your entry to fill the field.

[mike goodwin]

KB- I'm with you on this one. Hell with us guys that drank
their water since their start out west that are 50 plus and
pushed their product to EVERYONE we came into contact
with. I DID.
Couple years ago I spent about 5K for my wife and I to go
to the FLW Championship to work on a deal with them.
When I got home Aaron Hall told me I needed to BUY a
Evinrude engine whether or not they gave me a team deal.

Rick- as you know I stayed loyal to you and MERCURY.

Take all of us guys now 45-70 out of the picture and they
have NUT"N

My .02........MG

[bigbass111]

your money is too old..And what have you BOUGHT from them lately....

[TomL]

I know too much inside information to get in the mix here on the team deals... wouldn't want to say too much about some of their deals... but, I will say this.

First tour to offer free entries at the top level to ALL the anglers to have qualified to get there will OWN Bass Fishing and the rest will vanish quickly. It is doable - FLW has the hard part done (huge $$ in sponsors) but, can't see past their wallets. BASS doesn't have any incentive to do it - since they already have the lions share of the most popular anglers. My money is on the PAA - no offense to their president - but, if they would lose the angler at the top and get someone with business experience they could do it.

Imagine fishing with 100 - 150 guys for free for the same paybacks. Now guys have a real shot at making a living fishing. Some sponsor dollars (20-30k) some winninngs 30-50k for a year and they are making a decent living.... a great living in some areas of the country. I be there aren't 50 bass pro's making 100,000 a year righ now. This would put 100 guys in that category and it is doable. Hell FLW could do it tomorrow.

Think about it - if the FLW Tour was free - but, you had to qualify through the previous FLW Tour season or the Stren or FLW Series - they would be full everywhere. Guys would fish knowing that if they qualify it would mean they would have a very solid chance at making a living fishing or at least not going broke!

[Robert F]

First tour to offer free entries at the top level to ALL the anglers to have qualified to get there will OWN Bass Fishing and the rest will vanish quickly. It is doable - FLW has the hard part done (huge $$ in sponsors) but, can't see past their wallets. BASS doesn't have any incentive to do it - since they already have the lions share of the most popular anglers. My money is on the PAA - no offense to their president - but, if they would lose the angler at the top and get someone with business experience they could do it.

Imagine fishing with 100 - 150 guys for free for the same paybacks. Now guys have a real shot at making a living fishing. Some sponsor dollars (20-30k) some winninngs 30-50k for a year and they are making a decent living.... a great living in some areas of the country. I be there aren't 50 bass pro's making 100,000 a year righ now. This would put 100 guys in that category and it is doable. Hell FLW could do it tomorrow.

Think about it - if the FLW Tour was free - but, you had to qualify through the previous FLW Tour season or the Stren or FLW Series - they would be full everywhere. Guys would fish knowing that if they qualify it would mean they would have a very solid chance at making a living fishing or at least not going broke!

You have said it before and I believe your plan to be the way bass fishing would become a profession. Hopefully CBC is the springboard to that model taking over bass fishing. In the meantime I (as well as many others) received an email today stating anglers are now receiving a discounted rate for a booth at the Tour fun zone to promote non-FLW sponsors. I am looking at a full Tour schedule this year. There's a new slant to the game.

[TomL]

Discounted rate to promote their sponsors?

That is a crock of #%#% to say the least. They want some poor angler trying to make a buck to open a booth in the tent - which I doubt gets a ton of people and they are going to charge the a couple hundred bucks to do it? Wow!!!! Looks like another $$$ making thing for FLW. Why not give it to them? Oh wait, 75 million isn't enough - lets get $200 more from each angler.

I have nothing against FLW - but, they make enough to do something for the anglers. Not a few anglers that they give peanuts to for wearing a Tide shirt etc... but, all the anglers. After all if they didn't have the anglers they wouldn't be getting that $75 million.

CBC is not a stepping stone for what I mentioned in my last post, its just a cool tournament format for a state. Unfortunately, regionally and state wide the plan in my previous post really can't work ... it would have to be a national tour with national $$$ behind it in sponsorships. FLW has the sponsorship system down pat.

Kudos to FLW for getting the sponsorship dollars they get (which is what I stated above... at least for 2008 and 2009). Now take that money and take the sport over. Do you think KVD and Skeet and Ike are going to sit idly by and watch the FLW pros fish for free while they page $50K in entries? You get the top 100-150 guys in the country and more sponsor dollars will roll in - the magazine sells more subscriptions - the lower level events FILL and it snowballs into what they really want - more $$.

[Steve Reed]

Tom is right on. When you find out how much FLW made these last 3 or 4 years the 30k team deals are a joke.

If a circuit could get what FLW had last year, then all the anglers could make 50k minimum and free entries with a team deal like that and still fish for the 1mil a tourney and 2mil cup.

Lets see...

150 anglers x 50k = 7.5mil (Bp's involvement last year)
6 tournies paying out 1 million each + 2million dollar FLW Cup= 8 million (Roughly NG's Involvement last year)

The you have a 7-10 million dollar walmart deal, 7-10million Chevy deal, 5 million pure fishing, 20 1.5 million deals (from walmart)....

17.5 million in magazine and membership fees

makes sense.

[Robert F]

Yeah, 145 bucks from the angler/sponsor but it is a vehicle to get outside vendors a shot at the FLW media circus. I think a sponsor package is sellable. I will find out pretty quick. The Tour is the only place a Co-angler can get a worthwhile return on the time involved in fishing an FLW event this year. If that extra 145 bucks is enough to show value to a sponsor who cares what the other guys get or don't get. I want to play the game but do not NEED to do it. I will never have a team deal. As Rick pointed out, they are not for old guys.

[CN]

Well do you really think your going to get a new audiance watching Tommy Biffle keep to many fish or Ike well acting like Ike?

Only us die hards know what Tommy went through. I watched a show this weekend on TV where they were fishing for Anlger of the year on this and I did want to see Ike and Skeet and KVD.

What is cool is Ike acts like an idiot but can fish. Skeet well he is into himself but can fish. KVD,well who else do we know by initials.

Now remember I grew up watching Curt Gowdy and Jerry McGinas (sp) reel backwards and the above is just an opinion.