Non-Boater Post!

[RougeBass]

I just read a post that kinda bothers me so I'm just venting here. I just read a post that indicated there is tackle or other belonings being "Stolen" by Non-boaters. And that "Chipping in a little for gas" is something that has to be asked and debated. I fished as a Non-boater for a few years in the Federation which I'm sure what this post was referring to. I know ALOT of guys who fish as Non-boaters for various reason and I do not know one "Thief". I'm sure things could get mixed up on a boat or a boater give a bait to a Non-boater to use and they forget to return it. But acutally out right stealing? If that is the case the boater should contact the TD and TD should contact the non-boater.

As far as Non-boater not paying thier share I sure hear alot about it but never see it. As a non-boater I feel I have gotten the shaft at times also. I got asked one time for $50 we only travled a mile and i got to fish my water for about 5 min.

I guess what I'm really venting about is there are always post on here about how horrible non-boater are. When non-boaters have alot horror stories also. Some of the best sticks i know are non-boaters and top knotch guys and it just really biothered me to read that.

Someone else has ready posted that there are always going to be a few bad apples no matter hwere you go or what you do you'll run into them somewhere along the line.

Sorry for venting but its just my oppion.

[Mark Langner]

That comment I made was in the context of occasional bad things happening that I wish had not happened. The lake and the time the things happened I know first hand of, and are unimportant. Yes, the 99.99999 persent of non boaters wouldn't even think about nabbing things. Heck, my partner has forgotten to give me things back...it happens. It's just unfortunate that there are a few that make things less than the "we're all fisherman isn't life good" feeling.

What I was referring to in the gas thing meant to include your experience (boater being unreasonable on gas money). Seems that topic comes up on the forum so often I mostly quit reading em. When I started fishing (non boater by the way) tournies...nobody ever told me I was supposed to chip in...I just did cuz I thought it was right...which I think largely most people do.

The comments weren't an attack on non boaters...heck, I'll be a non boater in Stren this year...it was a few examples of some of the icky things that happen sometimes that take away from my fishing experiences.... I really feel allot of these things boil down to common sense, fairness, and caring for one another..that is all. (Boaters and Non Boaters). Was meant more as a lament on things.....not an attack on any one or group.

[gunnie2]

I too have seen a lot of various posts over the years doggin on non-boaters. But I see very few non-boaters telling their side of the miserable experiences they have encountered fishing with these "pros". While I don't reside in California I have had the opportunity to fish with many of you who frequent this board.

While the overall experience has been great I have encountered a few boaters or "pros" that treat co-anglers/non-boaters like the boat b*tch. I missed the cut in the Delta Everstart event because my "pro" wouldn't let me fish "his" fish even though he was in 150th place after day 1 .

I've also been told not to cast in this spot or on that bed because he "might" need that fish later on. Then has the nerve to ask me for gas money. I will admit, I wasn't going to give this guy one cent for fuel. I didn't drive 10-12hrs and spend a week pre-fishing so I could be told where I could or couldn't cast. I even drew a guy who had never been to Lake Mead before until the first day of the tournament. I've drew guys who smell like they just left the bar.

I promise you this if you show your co-anglers some respect and treat them like your team partner instead of your 6 year old they will do anything for you, ie; checking on your fish from time to time to make sure they aren't dying, telling you your 15K motor is about to hit some rocks, telling you that you just drove past that 6lb bed fish that you have spent the last hour looking for [instead of casting & catching it], hurrying w/the net, give them a chance they might even show you a bait or technique that helps you win 40K.

I accept the fact that you are going to draw the good with the bad, but, If you draw more than your fair share of ignorant co-anglers perhaps the problem isn't them.

[rickyshabazz]

For two straight years I fished as a non-boater in three different circuits before I graduated over to the boater, “pro,â€

[rickyshabazz]

The vast majority of non-boaters and pros are good people and great anglers. However, like any other event, their are a few people who are hardcore at any cost to the future of the sport.

[JT-Madera]

I am going the other way this year....I have fished as a Pro in all the major circuits for the last ten years...The last few months I have had some severe health problems involving my legs and heart.. I was advised by my doctor to "not" stand on the front of my boat allday, until I can rebuild my strength...So I decided to go as a co-angler this year on the Stren Circuit...

One of my concerns is how will I deal with the Pro's I am drawn with...I fished WONBASS as a Am many years ago and really drew some great "sticks" and stinkers...That is what made me decide to go Pro, "the Stinkers" I fished the original BASS Invitationals out west and fished the federation for a couple of years...This means that I learned how to fish and "catch fish from the back of the boat", no matter how much good a Pro thinks he can backseat me..
I was taught that lesson in the Invitatonals... There are some real "Stinkers" in that circuit who would spend most of their half-day on the front of the boat working to make sure you didn't catch any of "their" fish...

My question on this post is this "Rickey"....First I respect your posts and responses to this forum..However, I believe you said that Pro's you fished with had asked you not to fish in certain areas or to try and catch any of "their" fish.. If anyone asked me to not catch their fish or not make a cast to a certain area, my next question would be where they left the check to cover my entry fee and expenses... I think it will proably cost me around $800 to fish each tournament and a one pound fish could make the differnce between breakeven or not...Besides, I believe I will be fishing against other co-anglers not the Pro I'm drawn with...

I would never try and "pick the Pro's pocket" or try and hurt his fish, but this is not a shared weight format...However, I am going to be perfishing the tournaments and spending my time and money to fish so the fish I catch will be earned by me...not given to me by my Pro...My goal each day will be to catch a limit after that if I am just hurting my Pro's spot then I would proably just backoff, if he was a ok guy....and not a "stinker"...

I would really like to hear your and anyother persons response to my opinions...I am always interested in hearing the other side and maybe even change my own...Resistence to change is a deadend street...

Thanx for reading this rambling post....

JT-Madera

[Mark Langner]

I will be fishing at least one of the Stren events in 2006. One of the things a close friend told me that separated the Stren events from the B.A.S.S. open events is that in the Stren event, while you still have the rules that divide the front half and back half of the boat between boater and non boater, the boater cannot position the boat in such a way as to disadvantage the non boater. This is pretty key I think.

[rickyshabazz]

My response is that communication is always the key to each person having the best day possible. If I am fishing a certain way I will give enough info and opportunities to my non-boater so that they can adjust to fishing around me.

This is extremely important when fishing a sight-fishing tournament because a lot of non-boaters tend to freak out when they know that a boater is fishing for a fish that they both can see. The reality is that there are always fish that are cruising or pre-spawn and the non-boater should focus on fishing for those fish. I may even ask a non-boater to get the net ready if I know that a fish is about to eat. I would return the favor in a similar situation and have very often not fished while my non-boater worked a fish that I knew would bite very quick. I would and have never asked someone to do something that I wouldn't do for them in return.

In terms of asking a non-boater not to cast at a bed or sight fish, here is "my" view: If I invested the time, effort and resources during practice to locate sight fish and beds then "I" expect to return to catch those fish. At the same time if I have time and my non-boater has located beds with fish on them I would not fish his fish as well. It becomes a tough conversation and decision and that's why the Stren Series has rules against back seating non-boaters and against the non-boater having any say so in fishing location or tactics.

Talking about being back seated is very subjective and I would argue that I have never back seated any of my non-boaters in any of the tournaments that I have fished. On the other hand I have site fished and suggested to my non-boaters ways that they could catch fish around me while I bed fished. Some have listened and caught fish and others have not and didn't. The bottom line is that I would never ask or tell a non-boater not to fish, that is against the rules, but I do have every right to ask that I be allowed to catch the fish that I located in practice and to fish for them the way that I intend to catch them, which may very well often mean asking that the backseater not cast in the front of the boat, over my line or within an inch behind where my lure just landed.

I have found that non-boaters who are boat owners are very often trying to match me cast for cast and that usually only hurts both of us when two lures are landing inches away from one another. Especially on clear water lakes like Mead, Havasu or when site (bed) fishing.

If you want to have say so on how or where you fish then that is what the front of the boat is for. The bottom line is to just go fishing and let the cards lay where they may. I travel with three non-boaters who often say they were back seated and at the end of the tournament they cash a check or make a good check, and I always try to keep them focused on the other non-boaters that they are fishing against and not the pros.

In other words stuff happens and you live to fight another day. If you ever feel that you were miss treated then you should first-let the person know and secondly go straight to the TD and file a protest.

I think far too many guys focus on the negative and not the positive fact that fishing should be fun. If you are worried about getting backseated then you are already setting yourself up for failure. How about looking at the fact that you will have an opportunity to fish with and against the best that the West has to offer. This is far worth the entry fee or the fact that some non-boaters are always going to say that they were backseated.

[rickyshabazz]

Here is my quick answer:

Worry about the things that you can control and ignore the things that you can't.

You cannot control who you draw, what kind of boat or equipment that they have, what kind of fish they're on, or how they are fishing. Period.

All you can do is try your hardest and keep it wet and let the cards land where they may. Everything else is just stress and uncontrollable. We all can't draw Gary Dobyns or Aaron Martins every tournament which means that we have to make the best out of every experieince. Period.

[vinnybass]

Let me relate two experiences I had in a two-day Pro-Am last year on Mead. The first day Pro tells me he doesn't know the lake very well & hasn't pre-fished much (I live in Vegas) so I say no sweat I have some fish & we head out. I take him to a spot first thing & I get a two pounder. Now this T is during bedding & every cove had bedding fish in there somewhere. So we run into cove after cove & head straight to the back where we find the one fish that was all the way in the back (we passed over others on the way which we spooked). Now here's the part that gets me, he gets five & they're all about the same size (2-2&1/4) so I figure it's gonna be my turn to get a couple. Instead he fishes the rest of the day the same way & gets six more of the same type of fish that don't help him while I try to get bit on the fish we just ran over & get nothing. So I say "how 'bout giving me a shot at a couple of those, 'cuz I have one fish". He says to me " well you can never tell when one of these is gonna be a three pounder." DUDE, you're looking right at them they're the same as every other one you've caught.

Second day Pro says to me "all the fish I'm on are about the same size so we'll go & I'll get five then we'll get you five." Which is exactly what happened. Here is a guy who I felt understood how things work. The irony is if day one guy would have allowed me a shot at even one of those fish that he burned I would have been fishing day 3 & 4.

The thing is this day 1 guy didn't do squat on day 2 & he might have if he didn't burn all those fish. If he would've said to me I'm gonna save these for tomorrow I would've shut up, but instead he just kept fishing for fish that weren't gonna help him but would've helped me.

Sorry for the long post, but I've never told this story & I haven't let it affect how I view anyone else who ponies up the front-seat money, I just think this guy handled it badly & I was bugged 'cuz it cost me.

[JT-Madera]

The one thing I really like about this forum is that, Most time we can voice our feelings and not get hammered...I appreciate it...you have given me another way to look at this...

Thanx Vinnybass, I am sure you feel better just being able to vent about your first day "Pro" That guy will proably never go anywhere in tournaments, unless he wakes up...besides word gets around and it will come back to haunt him someday...I am sure your friends know who it is and their friends, etc...it all goes around....

thanx
JT-Madera

[RougeBass]

Well I just did a bit of research on myself I have fished about 113 draw format tournaments as a non-boater and out of those 113 I can honestly say I have had 4 not soo good experiences with the boater. Out of those 4 there we 2 I can honestly say if I ever drew them again I would walk away and loose my entry fees beofre I got on their boat again. And the only reason I say that is because they were both federation tournaments and I was not given my oppertunity to for my half of the day.

But over all 4 out of 113 that I can figure and darn good odds that the next boater I draw will be a great guy.

And I do hope some day to draw Rickyshabazz I really like drawing boaters who are straight up front about what they will be fishing.

[bassinbillmc]

I read this post and thought that I would add my thoughts. I have been fishing as an: "Am," "Semi-Pro," "AAA" and "Non-Boater" for a number of years.

Over that time I have had only a "few" negtive experiences. One of the first ones had to do with trying to park the truck and trailer on the side of dirt hill at Shasta when the water was very low (that was the first time I had ever done that). Add that to the fact that the pro had recently been arrested for a DUI and I am a police officer you can guess how things went. However, "we" did catch five bass that day and I made sure to give him "gas money" (includes splitting launch fee, oil, etc. as I have done at every tournament I have entered). That catch allowed me to get a "Gary Dobyn's Rippin Rod" for being just out of the money (I still have that "heavy pole").

Another one was at Clear Lake when I drew an out-of-state pro. All he wanted to do was follow other pros (Martens, Dobyns, etc.) around. Luckily my eyes were "bad" and I could not tell who was who. He was not open to suggestions and we did not weigh a fish that day.

The good days and memories far outweigh the bad ones. Some of those are:

Catching my first ever "flip" fish during a Delta pro-am. I did not even have a flip stick. Ed Grover (super nice guy) loaned me his, took me to a spot where there was wood and after about five minutes I got one that went about 3 lbs. Now I have four flippin' sticks.

Fishing with Gary Dobyns four diffrent times - enough said.

Signing up with Kent Brown one year was great. Doing a "360" in his Ranger was an "E" ticket ride that I will never forget. Kent has done a lot to help numerous people and is a great ambassador for fishing.

Catching 22 bass on the final day of the US open in 1999. I ended up weighing in four of our five. I moved from 77th to 11th and the pro I was with went from fifth to third. What a blast!

Playing "net boy" for Bill Townsend at the Shasta Pro-Am when he caught those back-to-back sevens (one was a spot - WOW).

Most recently catching my personal best, an 8.69, at the WON Delta this year. Quite a thrill catching that on a buzz bait. Thanks Alex D.

To use the Mastercard phrase, I would call these experiences "priceless."

Bill