Won Bass Pro-Am payouts?

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:25 pm

trying to see who won how much money at Havasu. Am I looking in the wrong place? With 99 boats how far down did it pay? Rick G.

B Becker · Post by **B Becker** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:15 pm

They paid down to 20 places. Don't quote me on numbers, but it went up like every 5 spots, so 20-15 got $350, 14-11 got $600, and 10-6 got $1000 and then I lost track. Again, I don't have the exacts, but it was something like that.

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:43 pm

looks like with entry fees and expenses, it is tough to break even at 11th thru 20thplace thats scary if true..I support WON no dis intended need bigger tournouts?

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:16 pm

I should have looked to WONs site before posting, 98 boats, nice job Folkestad and all top finishers a special thumbs up to Dave Gleibe...

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:43 pm

swordfish wrote:looks like with entry fees and expenses, it is tough to break even at 11th thru 20thplace thats scary if true..I support WON no dis intended need bigger tournouts?

Lower entry equals lower payback. Look at FLW NG. Hard to cover your expenses but less of a loss when you miss a check.

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:01 pm

I am not endorsing FLW-NG But..they had 140 boats at Shasta and paid $4869.00 to 47th place on a 2k entry...Granted some were 2k plus expenses in the hole, 93 of them but that was some money to be made.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:18 pm

Granted you could make money if you cashed in EVERY National Guard event but if you miss a check in just one you will not get your entry and expenses back this year. WON is going to provide a softer landing but it is going to cost you 30 cents on your dollar. Always been that way. Folkestad will have a hard time going negative this year in WON.

2ndsuks · Post by **2ndsuks** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:09 am

Rick G wrote:trying to see who won how much money at Havasu. Am I looking in the wrong place? Rick G.

A lot of guys are still looking for the Delta payouts.
For some reason, WON Bass does not want to post them for everyone to see.

TAP25 · Post by **TAP25** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:47 am

Where does it show the payout for Havasu? Delta? I can only find Finishes on there web site. I don't understand what the big deal is to show payout

ckraft · Post by **ckraft** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:58 am

all i want to know is what is the percent paid back on the pro side.

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:02 am

They paid 1 for 5.

Mike took home somewhere around 8k. Second was around 3-4k, third just under and so on. I took 9th and took home around 1200. The Classic looks to be a nice payout for the one's that qualify. I think thats were alot of the extra money is going.

Overall they ran a good tournament, some things were slow and out of their control but for what it was I give them a thumbs up.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:43 am

bigbass111 wrote:I took 9th and took home around 1200. The Classic looks to be a nice payout for the one's that qualify. I think thats were alot of the extra money is going.

Good job Justin

callwakeup · Post by **callwakeup** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:16 am

POV from a AAA... Fun Tourny with great fishing! Man those smallies pull hard. WON Staff was profesional.

One thing that chaps my hyde - Pros that drop out after day 1 because of a bad day without even so much of a call to WON mngt or their AAA is crap.. they should be banned for life... or at least a year

Now if they pulled out due to an emergency then im sorry for jummping to conclusions, but come on - at least make a call to the WON staff.

all and all though - great tourney, and wow did that wind blow!

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:29 am

You are RIGHT 100%....

Any so called PRO that jumps ship without notice should be banned for a some period of time (or forever). It is a shame that anyone would do that when other people are relying on them.

It made it so hard on the guys running the event. They should post the names of the guys that bailed. If they want to be poor sports and back out because of a bad day fishing then let us know.

I just don't like seeing WON suffer from other anglers choices. It made the staff look like they were unorganized even though they WERE NOT.

I am looking forward to Mohave, even though I have never been there..

Thanks Robert..

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:31 am

For inquiring minds:

The payback for the event should be pretty easy to determine as a 99 boat field is approximately 2/3rds of a full field. As such, you can take the full field numbers and divide the payback by .6667% to come up with the approximate payback.

As a former WON BASS director and director for Anglers Choice, it is my job to do comparisons of the competition. As such, based upon the payback that WON BASS printed out at the beginning of the season for a full field of 150 anglers, and using the exact percentages assigned to each place and dollar amounts based upon the number of entries, the payback should have looked something like this for 99 boats. This of course represents the straight payback and does not include options

Pro ($28,380 - 81.90% payback)
1st $6,600
2nd $3,960
3rd $2,640
4th $1,980
5th $1,650
6th $1,320
7th $990
8-10th $660
11-15th $528
15-20th $462

An extra $2,310 should have been rolled into the above numbers to account for places 21-30 that were not paid out due to the size of the field. Total Pro money should have been $28,380 for a 81.90% payback. This of course would not account for comped entries or discounted entries. Due to the random inclusion of the additional $2,310, the per place payback numbers shown above will vary slightly.

Am ($7,755 - 78.33% payback)
1st $1,320
2nd $990
3rd $660
4th $495
5th $330
6-10th $264
11-20th $198
An extra $660 should have been rolled into the above numbers to account for places 21-30 that were not paid out due to the size of the field. Total AAA payback should have been $7,755 for a 77.33% payback. This of course would not account for comped entries or discounted entries. Due to the random inclusion of the additional $660, the per place payback numbers shown above will vary slightly.

As to why WON BASS is choosing to keep its paybacks a secret is up for you all to decide individually. All I can tell you is to look for Anglerâ€™s Choice Pro-Am circuit with its fully transparent paybacks to come south in 2011.

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:40 am

Close, I beleive my 9th place check was $800 and my Pro Option was around $400.

It is what it is, and I'm fine with the current structure. They also have a classic to pay for.

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:46 am

All I can tell you is to look for Anglerâ€™s Choice Pro-Am circuit with its fully transparent paybacks to come south in 2011.

Come on Bill make that FALL of 2010

Some of us can't wait

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:56 am

O.K.

Fine.

Whatever.

I can't take it anymore.

I will cave to peer pressure.

Fall of 2010 it is!!!!!

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:37 pm

Thank you sir

Look forward to a full season with you guys

Bill Cook · Post by **Bill Cook** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:41 pm

Wait til you see the schedule

We can't wait either!

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:38 pm

Hey, if you already have the schedule then show it.

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:23 pm

We do have a tenative schedule that we are working on within our organization, however, all dates are tenative until after mid July when all organizations meet to set schedules and pull permits for the 2011 season. As such, anything posted at this point regarding schedules is highly subject to change.

Just know that Anglers Choice will have a Southern Pro-Am season starting next fall.

Long Nguyen · Post by **Long Nguyen** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:43 pm

Thread Hijack!!!

Hutch, start your own post about AC South pro ams!

(BTW, see you at Shasta

)

This is about WON's payout, not AC!!

Back to Rick's original question...where are WON's posted payouts?

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:51 pm

Easy now, I won't bet $500 to win $500 I'd rather put down 500 on one deal of blackjack, no expenses, 2k at Shasta FLW NG was worth the $4800. plus payback, ....anglers need to unite and strenghten the fields for better paybacks WON ,WCB, AC, anglers unite decide and up the fields, bigger fields equal paybacks..

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:28 am

swordfish wrote:Easy now, I won't bet $500 to win $500 I'd rather put down 500 on one deal of blackjack, no expenses, 2k at Shasta FLW NG was worth the $4800. plus payback, ....anglers need to unite and strenghten the fields for better paybacks WON ,WCB, AC, anglers unite decide and up the fields, bigger fields equal paybacks..

Anyone who fished tournaments with the idea of making money is kidding themselves.
All these organizations are businesses, first and foremost, and are in it to make a profit. Not good or bad, just the truth.
If you don't have sponsors, you're losing money, period.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:35 am

mark poulson wrote:
swordfish wrote:Easy now, I won't bet $500 to win $500 I'd rather put down 500 on one deal of blackjack, no expenses, 2k at Shasta FLW NG was worth the $4800. plus payback, ....anglers need to unite and strenghten the fields for better paybacks WON ,WCB, AC, anglers unite decide and up the fields, bigger fields equal paybacks..
Anyone who fished tournaments with the idea of making money is kidding themselves.
All these organizations are businesses, first and foremost, and are in it to make a profit. Not good or bad, just the truth.
If you don't have sponsors, you're losing money, period.

You are correct Mark BUT if you are guaranteed to lose over a season as even Brent Ehrler will not win all 4 this year, why do it?

Most of these Pro/Ams require a big commitment from our strained family budgets. I think that WON went the right way and FLW went the wrong way. If you are an average fisherman you will not get your money back with FLW this year. At least one top twenty in WON will cover your year's entry. FLW will need you to hit three out of 4 checks to cover as the longer event and non-regional format raises the expenses considerably. That said, I have looked at all of these as at least revenue neutral activities. Especially the Tour will require a sponsor to go anywhere.

Noluk · Post by **Noluk** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:37 am

Let's get one basic math fact down first. Bigger fields, while they may equal bigger payouts for the top folks, mean LOTS more folks donated and lost money. Our fields have dropped because folks who used to be able to pay to play and try to get better cannot do that anymore. Traveling team circuits suffer the same problem. Travel increases expenses etc. Want bigger fields and better paydays.. then we need to start new lines of thinking.
Maybe something like a Wonbass/AC joint event. Same lake same day, same weight from the same 5 fish. Join with 1 or both orginizations for that day. Less tournaments on a lake, lower travel expenses, less fish pressure and the folks can decide which orgs they pay. Not saying that is perfect but let's break out of doing the same old thing that isn't working. Everyone wants to fish a tournament that costs 100 dollars to enter and guarantees 10k first and 500 to every entrant with a 200% payback but dat will never happen. I don't want to hijack this thread but maybe we should start a new thread to put ideas out there about what anglers really want from a tournament org. Both the ones who regularly cash checks and the ones who donate.

Jim V. · Post by **Jim V.** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:38 am

They publish it in their "newspaper". The Delta was in there a while ago. Havasu has not been published yet. If it's free on the Web maybe they think you won't buy the paper?

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:31 am

If they can print the standings, the points and the weights, why not the winnings? That is all I wanted to know. It should be on the same page on their site like all the other org's. Seems like no big deal to me. Not trying to start "A" vs "B". Rick G.

Jim V. · Post by **Jim V.** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:18 am

I'm with you - if the rest is up there, why not the pay-outs? I think that before the free-flow of info on the net - you had to buy their paper to get the results. Maybe they are still stuck in that mode. I sent them an e-mail & Rich replied & said they would put something up.

I don't think they have quite made the leap into the 21st century yet.

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:54 am

Have you seen there tournament director. I don't know the man but everything hes doing seems old school and by the looks of him he aint getten younger

Fast 492 · Post by **Fast 492** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:56 am

OOPS!!!!!

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:01 am

Fast 492 wrote:I don't buy the leap to the 21st century, they are the only Pro/Am circuit that is on TV.... It should be posted, no questions asked.....

'

won bass has a tv show?

Long Nguyen · Post by **Long Nguyen** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:44 am

Fast 492 wrote:I don't buy the leap to the 21st century, they are the only Pro/Am circuit that is on TV.... It should be posted, no questions asked.....

I think you're mixing WON with WCB Jason. Larry has partnered with Justin Wolf to televise the WCB events.

Fast 492 · Post by **Fast 492** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:10 pm

OOPS, readin to many different posts

Bev Payne · Post by **Bev Payne** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:32 pm

Age has nothing to do with WON Bass Director. If these other directors had the where with all that Harvey has and knowledge about tournaments. He knows more about how to do things for the anglers than anyone. Bev

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:39 pm

Bev Payne wrote: Age has nothing to do with WON Bass Director. If these other directors had the where with all that Harvey has and knowledge about tournaments. He knows more about how to do things for the anglers than anyone. Bev

just wondering how making the toc's combined and then giving away a pair of motors and also scheduling the team toc on top of the a.b.a. toc in the best interest of the anglers?

there used to be a:

north toc with a boat/motor for 1st place

south toc with a boat/motor for 1st place

now there is a combined toc with all the regions in the mother load region where they are giving away a pair of outboards.

So the TOC's went from 2 boats/motors to a pair of outboards for the entire group of won regions. That is if they decide to make it now that they will be forced to choose between aba and won.

So the teams from vegas or havasu will be driving to northern california with 1 day of pre fish allowed.

How is ANY of this in the best interest of the anglers?

Harvey can send out emails all week long, im sure he has the capabilities to post on here as well. Heck Bob does.

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:53 pm

Right age has nothing to do with being a great tournament director, but if you look at everything that has been going on he has no clue of todays fishing. Things have changed since he's been in the game.
Now there are multiple organizations so you
need to know which orgs you can compete against. theres the issue with quagga now so are dv guys going to be able to fish a tourny at havasu and then turn around and fish dv the same week. theres lakes with motor restrictions so is this going to hurt your circuit. So many things to take into consideration does WONs TD think about all this I sometimes wonder.
Thers this thing called jobs are hard to come by also so not getting out the tourny dates messes people up too. Some people have a window in the beginning of the year to put in there vacation dates. Now all of a sudden the toc date appears a little late for people that only have windows in jan. feb to put in there vacation dates.
Im sorry age has nothing to do with being a tourny director. But being up ewith the fishing community does.
No one is ever going to be 100% happy.
anothere thing is Won embarrased with there payouts is that why there not posting them .
Ill tell you what TD's job is probably one of the toughest, but if WON wants to survive they'll get hip to today, cause if AC is going to charge the weekend warrior circuits and looks like there on there way . Looks like WON is going to have there hands full cause I know alot of us SOuth guys want a weekend warrior pro am circuit down here in the south with a decent pay out

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER · Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:00 am

for those still looking.....this is the Delta payouts for the top 10 that have been on the WON website since Feb 12 at the top of the Delta story blog:

Sean Stafford, Fairfield, 39.05, $5,500
Robert Lee, Angels Camp, 38.07, $3200
Jim LaRosa, Tracy, 34.31, $2000
Dick Watson, Alta Loma, 33.40, $1200
Phil Burgess, Verman, 33.19, $2750
Ricky Shabazz, Rialto, 31.01, $1000
Ken Phillips, Antioch, 29.61, $1000
Mark Crutcher, Lakeport, 27.79, $1000
Edward J. Schneider, Jr., 27.64, $1,000
Paul Bailey, Willits, 26.44, $1000

Additional Big Fish Payouts
Guy Sternat, Dublin, 14.60-pound largemouth won $1000 for Day Two big fish and $10,000 for breaking WON BASS Delta Pro-Am record
Dave Gliebe, Stockton, 7.98, Day One $500
Mike Folkestad, Orange, 6.58, Day One $300
Gary Robbins, Burbank, 8.42, Day Two $300

Top 10 AAA
Frank Harris, Sacramento, 34.12, $800
Andy Manahl, Mesa AZ, 32.50, $1,100
Jay Riggs, Rosamond, 32.13, $850
Ron Smith, 32.98, $350
Greg Rozycki, Berkeley, 31.70, $300
Toua Yang, Sacramento, 29.36, $300
Chris Ricci, Bend OR, 28.08, $300
Terry Stark, Sacramento, 27.41. $300
Brad Everett, Bakersfield, 26.81, $300
John Bitting, Westminster, 25.49, $300

FYI they paid down 13 places with 59 boats....

I have no beef in stirring the payout pot but I compared the WON Delta payouts to the WCB Clear lake payouts since they had the same size field and the same $350 entry fee.... and with the exception of a Harley (which is cool) the WON seemed a little better compared place to place and $ for $.....WON also paid down a little further too..... just my observation

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:15 pm

[quote="Robert F I think that WON went the right way and FLW went the wrong way. If you are an average fisherman you will not get your money back with FLW this year. At least one top twenty in WON will cover your year's entry. .[/quote]

Roberto?
At least one top twenty in WON will cover your year's entry? Not a snowballs chance in you know where.....

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:39 pm

N.A.R wrote: Roberto?
At least one top twenty in WON will cover your year's entry? Not a snowballs chance in you know where.....

Haha, Your right Tony. What was I thinking? Top ten? Just not at the US Open.

jsoregon · Post by **jsoregon** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:37 pm

bigbass111 wrote:You are RIGHT 100%....
Any so called PRO that jumps ship without notice should be banned for a some period of time (or forever). It is a shame that anyone would do that when other people are relying on them.
..

Totally agree. For the record Cassidy & I talked before I left Havasu due to motor issues which ended our day early. I pulled my boat out before 8am & John was helpful & we communicated all day. I actually was able to relaunch later & try to salvage the day due to John sending me to a sponsoring service guy so calling can be helpful. In my case I had bigger issues which didn't get fixed but you get the point.

Guys need to call...that's just not right if they dont.

But....at the end of the day the last thing a trnmnt organizations wants to do is ban boaters when they struggle to fill the fields.

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:17 am

But....at the end of the day the last thing a trnmnt organizations wants to do is ban boaters when they struggle to fill the fields.[/quote]

I agree with this, however, if there were no mechanical problems or personal emergencies and they decided not to show on day 2
they should be at the bottom of the list when it comes to AAA pairing in future tournaments.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:30 am

davejk wrote:But....at the end of the day the last thing a trnmnt organizations wants to do is ban boaters when they struggle to fill the fields.

I agree with this, however, if there were no mechanical problems or personal emergencies and they decided not to show on day 2
they should be at the bottom of the list when it comes to AAA pairing in future tournaments.[/quote]

If you don't hold people accountable for irresponsible action, they'll just keep on doing it.