Pro-Ams and comped entries

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:22 am

Rick G wrote:Nope, Andrew not really kidding at all. Maybe if every team that wants to fish an exclusive circuit knew what it takes to run an event they would respect the org's and the TD's better. Some of these regions have 2-4 staff teams on top of the AOY teams. Why not have a draw at each meeting in the morning to see who the staff team that day is? And dont tell me that it takes that much training to hand out bags or weigh fish or flip a hotdog. Give the days staff team a bonus if they do well. Everyone should pay IMHO except the AOY team as they have earned it. Rick G.

I wasnâ€™t going to post in this thread butâ€¦â€¦â€¦

Rick, you bumped your HEAD!

Would you bring in new employeeâ€™s every day to work at your business? Hell no you wouldnâ€™t. Granted that staffing a tourney isnâ€™t rocket science but would you want new people learning the job every time out? I donâ€™t think so. Or brinigng in relatives, yea rightâ€¦â€¦.

Hell last year, myself and my team partner were the year before AOYâ€™s and we were staff. So anyone fishing the ABA delta got a two for one. And we are the ONLY staff. We could have let another team be staff but we like doing it so we did. Maybe that was even selfish, but it is what it is.

And when was the last time you worked for free? Are you giving away free stuff at the store? If so let me know, I might have to take a road trip........

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:01 am

I guess we just have different opinions of what "Work" is. I think its a blast to be givin your buddies a hard time while you weigh the fish, or bs'n next to the BBQ. Its all fun for me as I know 99% of the guys that fish down here, so if a TD ever asked, I would be more than happy to help. Rick G.

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:22 am

BTW Rick, when you do the BBQ for NBW next year remember that you have to weigh in at least 30 min early or 45 min if you are in the second flight. As AOY this year maybe we want to fish for the full tournament next year and not lose at least 3 and a half hours for the year or up to 5 + hours. Yeah, plus staying till everything is cleaned and put away. Maybe do some stuff in the morning too. If you don't have one I could give you an apron so the grease don't ruin your tournament shirts.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:26 am

Guy Williams wrote:BTW Rick, when you do the BBQ for NBW next year remember that you have to weigh in at least 30 min early or 45 min if you are in the second flight. As AOY this year maybe we want to fish for the full tournament next year and not lose at least 3 and a half hours for the year or up to 5 + hours. Yeah, plus staying till everything is cleaned and put away. Maybe do some stuff in the morning too. If you don't have one I could give you an apron so the grease don't ruin your tournament shirts.

Yea, I forgot about that, We finally started to get bit on Sat at around 2pm but had to leave to be in 30min early to get ready for weigh in, just like every other tourney. I didnt complain about that............

RipnRog · Post by **RipnRog** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:46 am

there are many ways to look at the comped entries.

I have had the same staff for 3 years and we ran a 52 boat tournament this past weekend and we were done with weith in at 3:50. and we usually have everyone paid and on there way home by 4:15. If I ran a different staff everytime this would not be possible.

As for family coming and working for free well. that would be a lot to ask for especially since I run 12 tournaments per year.

I could just see us doing this and then when things run like crap everyone complains.

I did run my tournament with only one staff boat that got comped as I am very lucky to have a great group of friends that help with check in and all it costs me is a couple of burritos and a thank you..

I think that most everyone would rather have an event run smooth and quick VS a few dollars and I mean a few when your spread it out.

Rodger

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:10 am

Brian Linehan wrote:I guess another way to look at it is that this is a business we're running, not a bass club. I know those lines get blurred every now and then.

Being that this is a business, I need to have people I can count on to run the smoothest event possible. In addition, if I have to train new teams every month, that would be a nightmare.

Look at it this way, would any of you business owners tell your clients that they need to volunteer their time and work for your company for the day? No, you wouldn't!

Always up for Hawaii though Rick! You know that! lol

Good points. To have new people staffing the tournament every month could lower the quality of the event. These businesses need to compete with other organizations and the staff that runs the event can make or break a trail.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:42 am

Guy Williams wrote:BTW Rick, when you do the BBQ for NBW next year remember that you have to weigh in at least 30 min early or 45 min if you are in the second flight. As AOY this year maybe we want to fish for the full tournament next year and not lose at least 3 and a half hours for the year or up to 5 + hours. Yeah, plus staying till everything is cleaned and put away. Maybe do some stuff in the morning too. If you don't have one I could give you an apron so the grease don't ruin your tournament shirts.

As AOY this year Guy, it sure does not look like it hurt your chances. I have no problem cooking as I do most of it at the FINS seminars. Maybe I will put in for that job next year and get the good grease karma! This is not brain surgury folks. Last events that I ran, Tournament of Champions and the Club Championships had sometimes 340 boats at the TOC and 100 or so at the Club Championships and 4-5 people did the whole thing without the aid of computers. ABA ran the TOC weigh-ins with 4 people. But things are different these days and the expectations of the fishermen are much higher is as far as time goes, but I never really heard any complaints. 99% of the teams fishing these local regions are veterans and know exactly what to do at a weigh-in. Rick G.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:00 pm

Pipe down Rick. lol

Rod Wynn · Post by **Rod Wynn** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:05 pm

Rick G wrote:the comped entrys and Staff team deal is way out of control IMHO

Between AOY teams and staff teams they can take a grand out of any event. Rick G.

I agree...

Andrew Jackson · Post by **Andrew Jackson** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:23 pm

So in Rick's world, and with a few others (and I am not bashing anyone's out of wack opinion) you will show up 2 hours prior to take off to assist with boat check (names, phone numbers, vessel and trailer numbers in Nevada), breakdown and put away tables, chairs, etc from morning entries. Then come in 1/2 an hour prior to first flight check-in readying for weigh-in. Then afterwards break down everything from sound system, water troughs to banners and stow in trailer and when in Havasu all the food stuff and bbq. So we get an hour less fishing time and WORK 3 to 4 hours as well. Yeah that should all be done for gratis. . . Of course this jibberish is just spewing from my out of wack head

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:02 pm

Now I know why some animals eat their young. Hahaha!

callwakeup · Post by **callwakeup** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:51 pm

i dont think anyone has an issue with comped entries, heck comp only your good buddies for all i care... just have the org pony of the money. I wouldnt expect anyone to work for free, but i also wouldnt expect another customer to pay directly for my employee either. The org should make the "pot hole"

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:52 pm

I'm glad you like to BBQ Rick. Brian Linehan might have an opening for the night series. Just show up at Last Chance at 3pm and start cooking. Then come in after 5 1/2 hours of fishing and see where you end up for the tourney day. I'd like to see it!!!! I hope I get first boat in the last flight so I can have 6 1/4 hours because I always seem to find something late in the day that's working. Then I'll be home by the time you hit the freeway.

BTW, I want the old days of being a staff boat where the staff get's to leave to fish first; before the AOY which used to be first boat out after the staff boats. Then the rest of the field went by draw number. Hey Rick, I'm sure you took that benifit before as AOY.

Guy Williams

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:18 pm

Guys...
I know everyone appreciates what the staff teams do, and I nkow that the AOY teams should have their entries paid. I don't see anyone disputing that. The crux of the matter is that the organization should PAY the entry for the AOY and staff, not dismiss it.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:18 pm

I have a question Guy. Do you feel that if you got to go out first as a "staff" team before even the first picked boat goes out , but had to pay an entry like all the rest of the teams is fair compensation for before and after "staff" duties? Just a question, no more or less. And if the night derby meetings are going to be at Last Chance, then Dan better be cookin, but if Mr. Linehan needs a chef than I am his guy and I will pay like the rest of the field should. Rick G.

Andrew Jackson · Post by **Andrew Jackson** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:27 pm

...and I do concur that the monies not paid in by the "comp'd" teams should be included in the tournament. Even if a "comp'd" team wins a some placement $$$ their missing out too....

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:33 pm

Rick G wrote:I have a question Guy. Do you feel that if you got to go out first as a "staff" team before even the first picked boat goes out , but had to pay an entry like all the rest of the teams is fair compensation for before and after "staff" duties? Just a question, no more or less. And if the night derby meetings are going to be at Last Chance, then Dan better be cookin, but if Mr. Linehan needs a chef than I am his guy and I will pay like the rest of the field should. Rick G.

No, I'd rather be comped. I like the sure thing. Also, that way some people won't say I hole jumped someone just because I'm on the staff and could get the spot before them. I'd rather go out on my number entered and get to the same spot and let the cry babys cry. Every answer has a question Rick. Let's say an said org pay's the helping comped teams entrys but in order to substain their earnings they now pay 90% of the entrys instead of 100%. What good does that do? Nothing!!!

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:33 pm

Guy Williams wrote: Let's say an said org pay's the helping comped teams entrys but in order to substain their earnings they now pay 90% of the entrys instead of 100%. What good does that do? Nothing!!!

Some of these orgs that comp their staffs only pay 70%? Pretty sure only one gives 100 percent. On top of that they were the ones that set the BBQ bar. It's a business. If you need and can get away with it in the competitive market, power to ya. It is still good to get it out in the open. Many people have heard for all these years that the reason we only get 70 percent return is to pay the costs of staff, etc. Now you find out the whole time they were free-wheeling your derby too.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:36 pm

So, Guy its your opinion that all the rest of the teams should pay 100% of your winnings, so the Org can maintain a 100% payback schedule, even though you have paid nothing? My real question is if everyone had to pay, what is fair compensation for the "Staff" teams?
1-go out first?
2-automatic qualification to the toc?
3-extra bonus in the case you get a check?
4-they can win only the options?
5-nothing just keep it the same?

My feeling is we all know how to do the job and we all are kinda a big family and every once in a while its your turn to do the dishes. Rick G.

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:30 pm

5

1,3 are ridiculous......

Tony

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:26 pm

Rick G wrote:So, Guy its your opinion that all the rest of the teams should pay 100% of your winnings, so the Org can maintain a 100% payback schedule, even though you have paid nothing? My real question is if everyone had to pay, what is fair compensation for the "Staff" teams?
1-go out first?
2-automatic qualification to the toc?
3-extra bonus in the case you get a check?
4-they can win only the options?
5-nothing just keep it the same?

My feeling is we all know how to do the job and we all are kinda a big family and every once in a while its your turn to do the dishes. Rick G.

Sounds like you don't think the staff isn't worth much Rick. It's nothing new with the team events. I've been fishing team events since 1995 and been a staff boat the last two years. I'd say #5 but would rather it go back to what it was in years past. Comped and out first. So, if the staff boat is such a great deal Rick why have you never been a staff boat? Why the big push to change things now, you feeling left out?
Guy Williams

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:04 pm

No Guy, I just feel that gettin paid basically $35.00 an hour for a couple hours of work and then getting a share of everyone else's hard earned money for doing something we all should chip in to do just does not seen right to me. Sorry. Just my opinion. Especially any more than 1 staff boat is all that would ever be needed for any local events around here with the boats they draw. Bigger payouts at the TOC's are what I would like to see from all the team org's. Cant put on the weight if your givin away the pie. Rick G.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:10 pm

Rick G wrote: Bigger payouts at the TOC's are what I would like to see from all the team org's. .

TOC's are overrated IMHO! Unless it is a Rookie tourny I think many would agree. I would rather see the TOC money paid out at the tourney's instead.

Besides that, the damn TOC's are always during hunting season........

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:14 pm

Drama killed the DVL star, drama killed the DVL star, in my mind and in my car, we can't rewind this sh*t has gone too far. lol

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:15 pm

Brian Linehan wrote:Drama killed the DVL star, drama killed the DVL star, in my mind and in my car, we can't rewind this sh*t has gone too far. lol

Could be the WB quote of the century. Very funny! Rick G.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:42 pm

[/img]<a href="http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/wc ... -funny.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/wc ... -funny.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:01 am

Hey Rick why don't you take all this BS and start it at the ORG you push the failing in the south org ABA. wait they don't have BBQ's they don't pay back 100%. and they draw less then 20 boats so work should be easy for you. Ill tell you what I make alot more than 35 bucks an hour. so im under paid at these events. Maybe we should start a union for these orgs. and for boat dealers too. cause I bet some of your guys that work for you like vaseline every once in awhile rick

fishforfun · Post by **fishforfun** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:11 pm

I was present at the award ceremony at the Lake Mead WON team tournament. THe first thing the director said was ( We had 20 boats and 16 paid entrys)
What is up with that one angler of the year which WON does not make up for and three staff boats. Who needs three staffr boats for a twenty boat tournament. I know that AC pays the entry fees for the AOY that won entry fees at their TOC.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:20 pm

How do you know another AOY team from another region wasn't using their free certificates. This actually does happen.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:38 pm

I actually get 2 AOY's all of the time.

Andrew Jackson · Post by **Andrew Jackson** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:34 am

There are only two "staff boats". And neither of us placed, however we did win some options $. And you noticed he told everyone about the paid entries and how much the total purse was. Per John there were two "staff boats", one AOY and the free entry he gave away at the Mead event. Did you fish the tourney or were one of them beer drinkin' hobo's lurking in the back by the winner???

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:52 pm

I have an idea Andrew... How about they actually PAY you guys and then you PAY your entry? Maybe AOY teams should be PAYED the amount equal to however many entries they win.

I have some friends who were AOY for 100% Bass the year before Bob decided to end the teams. Know what they got for AOY? JACK SCHMIDT!

Andrew Jackson · Post by **Andrew Jackson** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:19 pm

Or actually get rid of all help for the tourney directors so they have to do EVERYTHING. See how that goes and watch the bitchers bitch about that. Then maybe they would be thankful for a comp'd entry or two. Peoples will ALWAYS find something to bitch about even if they've got it good.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:32 pm

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:25 pm

[img][img]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/wc ... t-lg-1.jpg[/img][/img]

BassketCase · Post by **BassketCase** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:48 pm

sTony wrote:Just my opinion, but I think it's okay for Orgs to use forums as promotional vehicles without strings attached. There's no expectation on our part that they respond to each and every question here. Some will and some surely won't, and that's not incriminating on their part. More being cautious and for some it's now there policy not to respond to such posts publicly. All the more reason to approach them off-forum first.sTony

sTony,
I have heard that some of the other org directors have been banned from this site. If this is true, wouldn't your "expectations" pretty much determined by your own actions?

Andrew Jackson · Post by **Andrew Jackson** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:16 am

Idiots, absolute idiots. This is why people with half a brain don't post nor visit this site. F'n smart asses....

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:50 am

Kevin stop it your hurting peoples feelings. Man that 1 is gross

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:04 pm

Funny part is that soooooomany people read this stuff but will never post. There are lots of lurkers. Don't get too riled up Andrew. It's all in fun. It really is.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:01 pm

BassketCase wrote:
sTony wrote:Just my opinion, but I think it's okay for Orgs to use forums as promotional vehicles without strings attached. There's no expectation on our part that they respond to each and every question here. Some will and some surely won't, and that's not incriminating on their part. More being cautious and for some it's now there policy not to respond to such posts publicly. All the more reason to approach them off-forum first.sTony
sTony,
I have heard that some of the other org directors have been banned from this site. If this is true, wouldn't your "expectations" pretty much determined by your own actions?

"Some of the other org directors." No, just one.

sTony

KPalmer · Post by **KPalmer** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:10 pm

This has been an interesting discussion to say the least....I can definitely see it from both sides. Like most of you I have fished pretty much every circuit out there for years and paid my dues with entry fees and options... This is the first year I have worked as a staff member and I gotta tell you, I was naive with how much work the staff teams actually do...If you think it's just about getting there a little earlier in the mornings to check live wells...you are as naive as I was. The truth of the matter is, it's a helluva lot of work to make a tournament flow smoothly....the other thing is, you cut your fishing day short also, because you come in way early to set up scales, BBQ, coolers, check in boat, etc...Then stay late to tear everything back down afterwards. I truly believe we have missed a couple checks this season because of it...So there is definitely a cost to the work being done...I doubt you would have many volunteers for doing all this without some kind of comp... And it took several tournaments to figure out the routine of when and how everything is done..switching people each tourney could happen, but I promise you it won't go smoothly.

That being said, It's also been a great experience and have enjoyed being part of (in my opinion) the best team circuit in the west and without a doubt the highest paybacks. They're doing somethin right.

so next time you feel jaded out of winnings, while your standing in line to get your fresh BBQ burger, wiped out tired from a long day of fishing...remember that same person who cooked your burger was also at check-in at 4:00am that morning and will be there tearing down well after you are on your way home.

Oh, btw I can only remember one tourney this season in our region that any of the comp teams won any $$$...and I believe it was a big fish option..which of course didn't take away from anyone's winnings...

Justin...good to have you back out here.

Kent Palmer (self proclaimed best burger flipper in the west)

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:49 pm

KPalmer wrote:This has been an interesting discussion to say the least....I can definitely see it from both sides. Like most of you I have fished pretty much every circuit out there for years and paid my dues with entry fees and options... This is the first year I have worked as a staff member and I gotta tell you, I was naive with how much work the staff teams actually do...If you think it's just about getting there a little earlier in the mornings to check live wells...you are as naive as I was. The truth of the matter is, it's a helluva lot of work to make a tournament flow smoothly....the other thing is, you cut your fishing day short also, because you come in way early to set up scales, BBQ, coolers, check in boat, etc...Then stay late to tear everything back down afterwards. I truly believe we have missed a couple checks this season because of it...So there is definitely a cost to the work being done...I doubt you would have many volunteers for doing all this without some kind of comp... And it took several tournaments to figure out the routine of when and how everything is done..switching people each tourney could happen, but I promise you it won't go smoothly.

That being said, It's also been a great experience and have enjoyed being part of (in my opinion) the best team circuit in the west and without a doubt the highest paybacks. They're doing somethin right.

so next time you feel jaded out of winnings, while your standing in line to get your fresh BBQ burger, wiped out tired from a long day of fishing...remember that same person who cooked your burger was also at check-in at 4:00am that morning and will be there tearing down well after you are on your way home.

Oh, btw I can only remember one tourney this season in our region that any of the comp teams won any $$$...and I believe it was a big fish option..which of course didn't take away from anyone's winnings...

Justin...good to have you back out here.

Kent Palmer (self proclaimed best burger flipper in the west)

I think I felt a little tear well up. Maybe you could come in just a little sooner and wash a few of our trucks that also do not get checks?

KPalmer · Post by **KPalmer** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:16 pm

Haha...Robert, I can always count on you.....Here is the kleenex, I already got my hug. Come out and fish the river and I'll make sure you get some secret sauce on your cheeseburger...lol

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:22 pm

I don't fish anymore Kent. I just talk crap. Still might come out for the car wash. I'll pass on the burger since the secret is out on the sauce.

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