AM's Please read....................

[RougeBass]

I fish the Pro/Am's from the back deck. And I have fished probably over 100 draw tournaments for the years and I wanted to bring up somethings that has that I have seen and heard this year that has been bothering me. First of all please offer your boater something for gas/oil. I know of 2 guys this year alone that didn't offer the boater ANY money for 2 days. That just isn't right. Second thing is limit what you take on to your boaters boat. I saw a guy with 16 rods (2 rod carriers with 8 rods each) 3 bags and a motorcycle helemt. That is way too much stuff. Third is i saw a 2010 Ranger with a hole burned in the seat by a non-boater cigerett. Not cool!

All I'm trying to say here is be respectful! Talk to your Pro before the tournament ask him what he would like you to bring and what you doing that day. Not all Pro will have an empty compartment for you to store your stuff. I take one bag and 4 rods. I have never had a problem. Ask your Pro at the end of the end what is your share of the gas. Its only fair. I know some people will arguee the AM's have expences to but that day you are fishing with that Pro you are using his boat his gas so be respectful and help out. And help out even if you had a bad day and didn't enjoy fishing with him its only fair. Last thing and I'll shut up is just respect the boat weather its a 2010 or a 1986. Clean up after your self try no to walk on the seats, and be extra careful.

If anyone needs any advice there are a ton of guys on here who can help out. Or feel free to PM me.

[Bill Hutcheson]

Great Advice -

You only get one reputation in this life and believe me, anglers talk, so you want them to speak highly of thier experiences with you in thier boat. The above is sage advice for any amatuer angler.

[Long Nguyen]

Second thing is limit what you take on to your boaters boat. I saw a guy with 16 rods (2 rod carriers with 8 rods each) 3 bags and a motorcycle helemt. That is way too much stuff.

I'll agree with everything else you said, especially about paying for gas/oil.

But I'll disagree with you about how much gear to bring. Obviously, if a guy is going to bring three bags, he didn't communicate with his boater the night before.

However if bringing whatever amount of gear makes someone fish better and can contribute to a shared weight, I say more power to him. I personally have brought up to 12 rods as a non boater for a team event and did fine. Having a Bac-Rac helps. For a Pro-Am, I've brought 9.

[GKramer]

Not that I'm the sole authority on the matter, but I have been covering pro fishing--in the boat--since the 1970's. Any pro who has 10 rods on the deck during the tournament--frankly, has no idea what's going on.

I remember something Rick Clunn said back in the days when he was the dominant player and the draws were all boat-to-boat: "The guy I worry about is the one with two rods and a little lunch sack of tackle. That's the guy who knows what's going on."

As has been already stated, if pro and co communicate, anything more than five rods on the back deck is a model of inefficiency. And I have a stop-watch that will prove it.

gk
www.kramergonefishing.com

[robertthornton]

I haven’t fished alot of pro ams, but the ones I have fished from the back have been a mixed bag. I don’t mind if the pro I am put with dose not catch them, If he is out there to win and things just don’t work out so be it, that’s fishing. On the other hand I have been stuck with so-called pros that have spent no time pre fishing, and are just out there to have fun. They can have fun on there dollar, not mine. Some so-called pros have big businesses and lots of money for new Rangers and Loomis rods, let Joe Fisherman pay for his fun. 90% of guys I think $30 to $40 is fair. Just how I roll.

[Gary Dobyns]

Start your stop watch GKramer. Most pro's will have more than 5 rods on the deck. If you would of said 7 or 8, I'd of went along with you. Many times we know that 3 or 4 rods will see 90% of the action, but most guys will have another 3 or 4 laying there for a particular situation. Sooooo basically as far as usage you are right, but as far as facts, you are wrong.

Great post.

I try to talk with my partners and always have rods in the box and tackle for them. My standard line is, "bring what you want, but you don't need anything unless you got some hot, strange bait. Then you better have enough for me too ". I tell them to bring some LUCK with them and we are going fishin'.

[Spookin'Em43]

Awesome post! Even as a college student on a budget, I always offer gas money and to wipe down the boat at the end of the day. I cant walk away without at least offering something, even if they say no the first time, I make sure to ask again later on. Builds a great reputation and respect.

And cigarette burn in the seat!? thats horrible, shows absolutely no respect.

[GKramer]

Think you might have got mixed up about which deck I was talking about--but I don't think were too far off on this matter, Mr. D.

[Caudawg]

Not that I'm the sole authority on the matter, but I have been covering pro fishing--in the boat--since the 1970's. Any pro who has 10 rods on the deck during the tournament--frankly, has no idea what's going on.

I remember something Rick Clunn said back in the days when he was the dominant player and the draws were all boat-to-boat: "The guy I worry about is the one with two rods and a little lunch sack of tackle. That's the guy who knows what's going on."

As has been already stated, if pro and co communicate, anything more than five rods on the back deck is a model of inefficiency. And I have a stop-watch that will prove it.

gk
www.kramergonefishing.com

You are right on the money in my opinion, George. I have always tried to pare down my tackle as much as possible whether I am on the pointy end or in the back seat.

I break less rods that way.
There are fewer things that can catch in the net when landing a bass.
There are less distractions when fighting a fish.
There is less time spent untangling...and more time spent fishing.
etc

It's all about efficiency and maximizing every minute spent making casts. Sometimes...it's tough to have just a couple rods on the deck because you may not be on a solid pattern and are making changes constantly...junk fishing...and it makes sense to have the rods you may need on the deck because digging around your rod locker can be a time waster too.

Communication is the key. But It's always tricky though, because you don't want everyone to know what lure you are throwing the night before. AAA's often have friends/roommates they share info with so you need to be careful how much is shared...especially if you have a lure that's still a bit of a secret. I sure miss those days!

[kb]

That is some great advice for co-anglers and pro's too. I am sure with that attitude your partners want to draw you at every tournament. Now since when do the outdoor writers know how many rods we need....they carry three and four cameras, take hundreds of pictures and run one in an article........now how does that work with Kramer's stopwatch??????

kb

[Mitch]

WOW !! THis subject goes around evey year. I've fished both ends and fished as Pro for many years. I've had some great back seats that I would welcome on my boat in a second, and there have been some that I don't even want to see in the parking lot. I had a guy even tell me he had to go to the ATM to get some money and would be right back. That was 7 yrs ago, guess that ATM is a long way away. AND we were on fish AND he used my baits all day AND he CASHED A CHECK !!!! Nice, huh ? AM's have the decency and respect for your Pro. Most have been around the block and know what their doing and have invested a lot of time and money. Yeah, some are the "just for looks" Pro, but even so, you got a day on the lake that you didn't supply the boat and fuel for. If you can't afford $ 30-40 a day for your pro, then you should not be in the tournament. AND if you smoke, be very respectful of his equipment. A burn hole in the seat is totaly unexceptable. As I always told my co's ------the smoking area is just aft of the big motor !! Good luck and good fishing

[Brian D.]

the smoking area is just aft of the big motor !

+1

Being a former smoker, it can be tough not smoking when the bite is slow. Totally understand. I tell my guys if they need to smoke they should be seated, not fishing, and hang their hand over the side of the boat.

[FinesseKid]

I fish with Rod Wynn from time to time and I am so grateful that I take him to lunch at the Colonels' Buffet as a matter of rule. And thats just during the PREFISH! LOL

I always offer to chip in for gas and help wipe down the boat at the end of the day. I figure that if I didnt cash a check, I did bank lots of knowledge so its win-win either way.

[Long Nguyen]

Any pro who has 10 rods on the deck during the tournament--frankly, has no idea what's going on.

I gotta laugh at that comment George. At the most recent Pro Am held on the Delta, Sean Stafford had 15 rods on his deck of his Triton.

I stated laughing when I saw how many were there..I had to count em. Turns out he was on a bed fishing pattern so he needed a variety of baits to entice bites.

[texas john]

I to agree with 90% of your post. I do disagree with a few points. I too fish from the front and from the back. When Im on the front of my boat prefishing I try to have no more than 7 rods out at a time because of stepping on them or whatever. During Tournemants I only pull out the ones that I am going to use the most.

From the backseat I usually bring 6-8. In a team event it is crucial that both guys are fishing as much as possible. So when we are on a good plastic bit, I bring two plastic rods so if I break off I have a back-up and dont have to retie everytime. Some situations dictate 4 rod, but I have yet to be on a bite that I had so much confidence in that I limited my self to 4 rods. I let my CO bring as much stuff as they want so long as when its time to go they are ready, and when we are fishing, they are catching them too.

[leachman90]

Start your stop watch GKramer. Most pro's will have more than 5 rods on the deck. If you would of said 7 or 8, I'd of went along with you. Many times we know that 3 or 4 rods will see 90% of the action, but most guys will have another 3 or 4 laying there for a particular situation. Sooooo basically as far as usage you are right, but as far as facts, you are wrong.

Great post.

I try to talk with my partners and always have rods in the box and tackle for them. My standard line is, "bring what you want, but you don't need anything unless you got some hot, strange bait. Then you better have enough for me too ". I tell them to bring some LUCK with them and we are going fishin'.

What the heck Gary? You mean to tell me you bring gear including rods for your partners? Hell, I thought you were going to throw me out of the boat when I stuck that 5lb smallie behind you. Now that doesn't sound much like the guy in this thread?



As for the rest of this thread, what brought all this up? As a non-boater I believe you can bring as much gear as you feel you can handle and keep organized. AND as long as it NEVER keeps the pro from doing what he needs to do.. I also think what MOST IMPORTANT things you can do for your "pro" is to wear a suspender type of pfd and to never take it off. This way you are always ready to go when he is. IF you keep your boater happy it will make for a much better day. Well that is unless you stick some "pigs" then they tend to get a little quite and moody some times.
GB...Jim

[philip garcia]

The best thing is bring what you can handle. When I fished on the back I was the sandwich bag and three rods guy. I just hated clutter. Then there are the ones who bring twelve rods and a duffle bag. My good friend and sometimes team partner is one of those guys. His name is Roy Desmangles and he is one of the best co-anglers out west. Roy can manage all of his rods and tackle on the water with out any problem. You just have to find an equal middle ground that works for you. Ask questions with your pro on any grey areas you have.

[RougeBass]

Intresting comments. Maybe a backsesater who takes 8 to 12 rods can share some tips on how they manage that many rods with getting them tangled with each other or even broken. With 4 rods I still seem to get a few tangles. As far as re-tieing if I break off it doesn't take me long at all because I don't have to dig for anything. I have 2 hard boxes in my bag and 3 small bags with plastics I take to the boat. I know where everything is and how to get to it quick. I can probably re-tie fatser that fighting with my rods. I think this is a key reason for a good talk with your pro prior. I know what to have in my bag and what to leave on the dock. If we get out on the water and the Pro starts to trash fish and we stumble onto something 99.9% of the time the Pro will get you what you need. I have had Pro's in the past hand me a rod and bait and say here throw this.

Bottom line for this post was one thing Talk to your Pro and be respectful. Even if you had a bad day!

[swordfish]

No Boater, five rods, 7 max..and one tackle bag you are not finding patterns you are pickin up scraps or matching the pattern, just tryin' to survive. Try making a long run with 10 rods in rough water and you might end with a jerk bait and trebles in your shirt sleeve...

[Long Nguyen]

Maybe a backsesater who takes 8 to 12 rods can share some tips on how they manage that many rods with getting them tangled with each other or even broken.

http://bac-rac.com/ is a good place to start. I can leave 8 rods on this rack with confidence. Usually, the two or three that I'll use most often that day will be on the running rack right next to me...like if we're flipping all day I'll leave the reaction stuff on the rack.

So far I've used it in 2 Pro Ams and a few team events. They work on most boats except Skeeters and older Champs. They held 8 rods securely on a run in some wind from Russo's out to the San Joaquin. The only downside I've seen is if you go super tight into the tules or fishing around docks.

Tackle Tour did a nice write up on it, which led me eventually to purchase one site unseen. http://www.tackletour.com/reviewbacrac.html

Whereas the Bac-Rac won't work on Skeeters and older Champs (due to the battery compartment lid extending the entire length of the transom, split in two like the Skeeter, or taking up 1/2 the back deck like our Champ 181) this alternative option looks like it would work. Seen on the Ultimate Match Fishing http://www.team2kfishing.com/rodcaddy/

[texas john]

No Boater, five rods, 7 max..and one tackle bag you are not finding patterns you are pickin up scraps or matching the pattern, just tryin' to survive. Try making a long run with 10 rods in rough water and you might end with a jerk bait and trebles in your shirt sleeve...

Not all back seaters are picking up scraps. Sometimes, not often, but sometimes the backseaters are the reason the team wins....And how do you carry enough hooks, weights, crankbaits, jigs, swimbaits, dropshot gear, spinnerbaits, buzzbaits, spooks, lunker punkers, brush hogs, ribbon tails, senkos, robos.............In one bag???

Just trying to make my point. Maybe in the winter you can go out with 4 rods but not in the summer.

[RougeBass]

And how do you carry enough hooks, weights, crankbaits, jigs, swimbaits, dropshot gear, spinnerbaits, buzzbaits, spooks, lunker punkers, brush hogs, ribbon tails, senkos, robos.............In one bag???

That is an easy question, most of the time I don't have all that stuff in my bag at the same time. That is why talking to your boater is Key. I bring a ton of stuff with me to each event almost everything you mentioned and them some, but after my talk with my Pro I know what I need to have in my bag and have ready for the next day the rest stays on the dock. If my Pro for the day says he has nothing going on and we will be trash fishing I still just bring my baits I have confindence in and I know tend to work and that time of the year.

And let me say one more thing. The reason i'm so scaled back a while back I fished a federation on the delta. I drew a guy who had a 16 foot Aluminmum tracker. Super nice guy and knew the delta but it was a horrible situation as a backseater. But like I keep saying talking to your Pro is key. Pat Wilson aka, Backdeckpro thought me alot about fishing from the back deck and one thing he stressed about how much gear to bring was talk to your Pro.

[Guy Kelley]

I fished club and 100 % Pro/Ams for years and figured it out early what boating manners were important to my pro early on, by talking to the pro.

1. Six rods max, the rest just get in the way.

2. med size tackel bag with stuff that i am going to use on top ready to use. the extras in the bottom of the bag for in case of use.

3. small snack and plenty of water in your own cooler, the pro dose not supply you with lunch or its not a pic-nic either.

4. Be ready to move locations quickly, when the pro says last cast he is ready to go NOW !!!!!!

5. Be quiet, No one likes a chatter mouth !

6.Adjust to his fishing speed, but do your own thing to contribute to the limit.

7. In a two day, never, ever talk about what you did the day before to another pro.

8. Always offer to wipe down boat at end of day.

9. If you smoke ( I do)
Never in the seat, always wait until you are on the back of the boat and always ask the pro if he minds if you do before you leave the dock.

10. If he offers you a bait to use and you loose it, replace it. or at least ask.

11. Never Ask How Much ? What do you expect a freebie ?

you hand him $40.00 or more, (never less) at the end of the day, if he says thanks but no thanks or gives you some back, that is his business. If you are looking for a freebe or you stiff him or her I can promise you that the pros memorie is long and they do talk to one another and your reputation will soon be mud.

12. Same way with gas for the truck, if you ride along to say Clear Lake and back and you hand him $10.00 you just insulted him and he will smile and think you are a cheep son of a gun looking for a cheep ride.

13. Plan on spending at least $40.00 per day with pro for a day on the water, more like $60.00 if you ride along in his truck.

If ya want a cheep ride for a day on the water with a pro, using his boat, his baits, his water, his truck, his food and time so you can just play. Do yourself and others a favor and stay home.

[calfisher71]

Very true good point, Last year thanks to a sponsor i fished as a pro for the first time , I fished 3 events. I did not get gas money more than once from my co-angler

I did not block my co-anglers out, we caught limits every time.
i lended gear to them when needed.

All the years I fished on someone elses boat for a day I at Least give them $40.00 .

Look how high gas is!
Oil mixture is $25 to $35 a gallon?
Boat payment
Insurance
towing to the event
pre fish days to help put your co-angler into fish too!

I did not get mad, but it's not right!

If i draw those guys again how will I feel?

Keep in mind many co-anglers go to these events to learn form there pro's.

these pros have spent years on the water and thousands of dollars to gain knowledge.

At least budget your self to help each pro you draw.

I forgot to get cash is a lame excuse!
[/b]

[Kevin Evans - Kap]

Lots of good points here. If you fish as an AM you better be prepared to offer 40 bucks each day, Period. Call it part of the fee as is should be mandatory in your head. Not to offer anything is just not cool. Communicate with your pro at the pairings to get an idea of what to bring and I'm sure if you ask how many rods to bring he will let you know his opinion. Some say it dont matter, bring em all and some say 5 or so. So just be prepared for anything and do as much homework as you can before hand to try and eliminate any non essential baloney on and off the water.
Its what we call th 6 P's...
Piss Poor Planning Prevents Proper Performance.
What ever the deal just remember to go fishing and have fun.
My 02 cents worth.

Kap

[keithcant]

I have fished BOTH ends of the boat...............I realized long ago ........at the back I AM A GUEST.

My entry and FAIR payment of gas and oil is far from purchasing a possessory interest in that boat and venture on the water.

When you have 8--10---MY GOSH 15 rods on the non boater side they are getting in the way whether you want to believe it or not.

The guy in the front is avoiding you from getting injured or your rods lost-broke or tied in a knot. I DON"T CARE WHAT ROD CARRIER YOU ARE USING.

The boat is a platform to fish and work a fish in. Equipment is in the way unless you have it in a compartment. If a boater doesn't make one or two compartments available then he isn't helping himself either.

I think it is absolutely safe to say--NO BOATER in a tournament ever said/thought: 'Boy I'm glad my partner had those three bags of equipment (those 10 rods)...or we never would have caught 'em like we did today.

If the 'guest' argues he needs more than 6 rods-some tackle and a single equipment bag you are fooling yourself and trying to convince the non-believers. OF COURSE one piece of equipment makes the point moot--go BUY a boat and try on the other shoe.

[keithcant]

*NM*