Can you cull a dead fish?

[kissmybass]

OK so I am sure this has been discussed on this board before but I would like to know what you all know. I have had this discussion with many anglers and each one has a different answer which leads me to believe it is a grey area. I have been fortunate to not have had a fish die on my watch but I know it does happen. I did some research in F&G and this is what I found...

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/fish/Administrati ... ulling.asp

***FISH CULLING DURING BLACK BASS TOURNAMENTS
Section 1.17. of Title 14, California Code of Regulations, Natural Resources, Bag and Possession Limit, provides that no more than one daily bag limit of each kind of fish, amphibian, reptile, mollusk or crustacean named in these regulations may be taken or possessed by any one person unless otherwise authorized; regardless of whether they are fresh, frozen, or otherwise preserved.

Additionally, Section 1.80. of Title 14, California Code of Regulations, Natural Resources, defines "Take" as to hunt, pursue, catch, capture or kill fish, amphibians, reptiles, mollusks, crustaceans or invertebrates or attempting to do so.

California Sport Fishing Regulations provide that anglers may take up to five bass per day when fishing; and fishing contest permit regulations provide that "insofar as possible; all fish shall be returned to the water alive and in good condition".

Section 230 of Title 14 contains new regulations adopted by the Fish and Game Commission which became effective September 22, 2005.

<b>Section 230 (1)states: "No provisions of these regulations exempt any participant in a contest from the sport fishing regulations, except that the department may, for permitted contests, authorize an exemption to:

A) Regulations which impose an increased minimum size limit larger than 12 inches, a slot size limit, or a reduced bag limit less than five fish for Type A contests, and; B) Daily bag and possession limits for all permitted black bass contests, insofar that once the daily bag and possession limit has been reached by an individual angler, that same angler may continue to fish under the condition that each additional fish caught must immediately be returned to the water alive and in good condition, or be used to replace a fish being maintained alive and in good condition from the participant's livewell or other suitable holding facility."</b>

Note that Section 230 (B) applies to all permitted black bass contests while Section 230 (A) applies only to Type A ('Event') contest permits for which the exemption has been authorized.

Information regarding Zero (0) bag limits

Section 7.00. of Title 14, California Code of Regulations, Natural Resources District General Regulations; provides that in waters where the bag limit for trout or salmon is zero, fish for which the bag limit is zero must be released unharmed, and should not be removed from the water.***
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I take this (the highlighted portion) to mean that once you have reached your limit (say 5) at that point, you cannot throw back a fish not "alive and in good condition" but until you reach your limit, you are only required to"insofar as possible; all fish shall be returned to the water alive and in good condition"?

Anyone else want to take a stab at it?

[sker13]

No!

[ash]

No, you can not cull dead fish, it breaks the laws and the rules of unsportsman like conduct. I have been and I am sure that others have been in the situation where that rat that died in the morning just kills your overall weight.

[kissmybass]

OK I say no as well but I am trying to find the exact rule that says that, not just going on hearsay. This rule was the best I could find on the matter from Fish and Game but it also does not directly say NO.

[Tin Can]

Look up wanton waste in the DFG regs. Basically you can't kill a fish and not take it. Who would feel good about "releasing" a dead fish?

[Mark Hiser]

I think you will find the law you are looking for under "Wanton Waste".

Mark Hiser

[jimmyG]

I don't eat bass, "let em go, let em grow." When I accidentally do kill one, I give it to the meat fishermen in the little aluminum boats.

Would this be allowed in a tournament?

[pablohoni]

What if the dead fish is under the minimum length?

[kissmybass]

I would not think anyone would feel good about it however, what if your in a tournament and your dead fish is teeny. That is where I think the problem arises and whatnot. I fished with a pro @ a CA tourney once who swore it was perfectly legal to throw a dead fish. Luckily we didnt have any die during the day but I was pretty sure he was wrong.

[kissmybass]

Well if fish was under the minimum length wouldn't you just throw him back immediately and he wouldn't really have the opportunity to die in your livewell? I suppose he could die while unhooking him...

[stickbait]

Interesting question.. Lots of good questions and what ifs posted...

I always thought it was written in stone with in the tournament orgs rules.. so I went and looked.. DFG rules are kind of confussing as always..some wording ??....(insofar as possible) all fish shall be returned to the water alive and in good condition..

In my eyes and some tournament ruling if the fish is stone dead... you would be breaking the law if you culled.. but if he was wiggling some.. where do you draw the line here ???

So I think.. just in a sportsmens stand point alone.. YOU CAN NOT CULL A DEAD FISH...

From DFG site

Additionally, Section 1.80. of Title 14, California Code of Regulations,

California Sport Fishing Regulations provide that anglers may take up to five bass per day when fishing; and fishing contest permit regulations provide that "insofar as possible; all fish shall be returned to the water alive and in good condition".


Section 230 (1)states: "No provisions of these regulations exempt any participant in a contest from the sport fishing regulations, except that the department may, for permitted contests, authorize an exemption to:

(A) , insofar that once the daily bag and possession limit has been reached by an individual angler, that same angler may continue to fish under the condition that each additional fish caught must immediately be returned to the water alive and in good condition, or be used to replace a fish being maintained alive and in good condition from the participant's livewell or other suitable holding facility."

From Won bass site

19. Culling – (Replacing a live caught bass with a larger live caught bass) is permitted during the fishing day. At no time during tournament hours may contestants fish while possessing more than the WON BASS 5 fish tournament limit. The exception to this would of course be the catch, measurement, and release of a 6th fish caught with 5 in the livewell. Recent Title 14 rulings by the California DFG will allow WON BASS tournament anglers in California to continue to fish with 5 bass in the live well. However, for the purposes of the tournament, no more than 5 bass may be in the live well at any time. No measuring, releasing, or culling of any bass is permitted by contestants inside the designated host marina boundaries at any time.

From A/C site

16) CULLING FISH: It is the responsibility of each Pro/Am to keep no more than a maximum of five (5) fish in a live well. If more than five fish are present in the live well during the event you will be subject to disqualification. No culling is allowed in the host marina. No culling of dead fish is allowed.


From FPT site

24. Fish Size/Culling: Fish will be measured flat, mouth open on a Wil-E-Go belly board or a Bass-Board on the belly (dish) side, with a 13 inch minimum size. No measuring or culling inside of 5 mph buoys or the area between the check-in point and the weigh-in site will be permitted. Infractions will result in disqualification. It is YOUR responsbility to declare to the weighmaster that you want to weigh a big fish BEFORE they are weighed and recorded. You will not be asked if you want to weigh a big fish by the weighmaster. Once your fish are weighed, and recorded, you will not be allowed to weigh your big fish.

From American Bass site

11) LIVEFISH - Contestants shall makeevery effort to keep all fish alive through the use of a properly aeratedlivewell. American Bass stronglyrecommends the use of chemical additives in livewells. .20 lbs will be deducted from the totalweight for each dead fish presented for weigh-in. Night tournaments, “specialâ€

[lobinaloca]

If the fish is legal, NO! You can't just kill a fish and say" I have a better one" and let the dead fish go to waste. You killed it, live with the results.

[clearlakeoutdoors]

no its not legal. But I know of two times FLW directors were called and they were told to go ahead long as you dont get caught.There was even a protest once that FLW ignored. FLW needs to change their rules!
DAVE

[davet.]

I know for fact that if a fish is belly up, but gills still move every once in a while and a dead fish will hurt bag and the bite is good enough to replace the dieing fish, I've seen these fish slip overboard a few times.

[norththird]

"each additional fish caught must immediately be returned to the water alive and in good condition, or be used to replace a fish being maintained alive and in good condition from the participant's livewell or other suitable holding facility."

"alive and in good condition" says it all. I dont see any grey area here.

[Marty]

Let me tell you a no shlt story!

I have been listening to the posters on this topic for a long time and I picked up some of the same attitude (when a fish is bead). Well those attitudes embarrass the shlt out of me. I was fishing as a back seat in FLW event and the Pro culled a fish that I though was dead (listening to what I read on topic like this). You know belly up and twitching its fins in its last breath of life. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t lose no sleep over a dead fish, in fact I have cause a few to lose their life in providing fare for the table.

Well the Pro culled the fish (twitching its last breath of life) and the fish floated away. I watch it float until I could not see it no more! I was upset not about a dead fish but how could this Pro put me in this position. You see I believe as a back seat I have the responsibly to make sure my Pro does not break the rules and to keep if fair for all of the other Pros as the Pros do with the back seats. Now I had to bring this to the attention of the TD at weight-in.

I told the Pro what I was going to do and he said the fish was alive when he culled it (one thing about the Pro, the Pro is a great guy and I would fish with him again). When to weigh-in and I made my protest and the TD pulled us both aside and asked us questions. He started with the Pro and the Pro said it was still alive, the fish was still moving. Then the TD asked me just one question – did I see the fish move at all? I said it was twitching its last breath of life and the fish was dead and just the nerves were making the fish move and that I seen the fish float away, not swim away. The TD said he was going to rule with the Pro and I said I have to take it higher and he called the Corp office and I talked to the man. The ruling did not change.

The rules are written vague and until those rules change and state a fish that can’t swim away on its own power then the fish is dead. Until then the fish is alive!

[davet.]

Marty, I was wondering if that had any bad consequenses for you?
Seems like people might hold a grudge against ya, and the whispering about ya begins amongst the pros.

[jimmy87]

the rule as I know it

if the fish is breathing it can be culled