Question for Tourney Orgs/TDs

[Brian D.]

In light of the recent DFG meet and greet, a question/observation came to mind, whereas I'm surprised that there isn't some sort of certification process to become a tourney director. Not that I'm all for a bureaucracy, but it might be a good thing to have an introductory course or sorts to educate at TDs on DFG rules, permits, fish care guidelines, management, quagga education, weigh-in techniques, and the like. We've seen it time, and time again, where one TD leaves an org then is replaced with someone who has little to no training. Not to say that being a TD requires a PHD, but if things are not done right, bad things (e.g: dead fish, DFG & lake violations, etc) happen which ultimately leaves a black eye for the anglers and the ALL tournament circuits.

Anyway, I think it would behoove all orgs to police themselves somehow not only to keep their business tight, but to keep the resource going strong. Handing a guy a clip board and a scale and wishing them good luck isn't enough in my book. Thoughts?

[mark poulson]

Agreed.
We've all seen how lousy/crooked TDs can ruin a circut, and inept TDs piss everyone off.
If the overarching organizations had to take responsibility for their TDs' preformances, anglers wouldn't feel like they were always at the mercy of the winds of chance.

[Brian Linehan]

So are you volunteering or what?

Not to steal the thread, but I want to see ur a$$ at DVL in 2 weeks for the ironman!

Cya Bri!

[jletsinger]

There is a certification process, and its another unwritten rule in the world of bass fishing. Its called respect from the amount of trophies that the director has on the wall. Most tournament directors have paid there dues, are very passionate about the sport, and have been around along time deserving a lot of respect. A certification process would be a slap in the face. You want to tell Randy Pringle or Cooch they need to get certified, come on. These gentleman, like others have been fishing probably longer than you and I have been alive. Show some respect. You need to do some research on the TD, before you fish there curcuit. I can assure you that most are very qualified and know what they are doing. We don't need bigger government to protect us from ourselves like barrack and pelosi believe. Believe it or not, there are still people out there who have common sense. Who would the govt. hire to certify the tournament directors? Probably the people who are running the tournaments or their advisory committees.

[Fast 492]

+++++ 11111

[Fast 492]

One of the biggest problems that I have seen is that fisherman in general are like crack addicts, it doesn't matter who/how or where they get their addiction (to fishing) satisfied it just a matter of getting it. If fisherman just quit fishing a circuit and complained to the Organization about a specific directors habits, then the Org's would defineatley do something about it. As long as you keep fishing, then why would they change anything, they are still getting there money and you are still fishing for money.... If you stop fishing then they would be forced to make changes to the circuit that is not performing to expectations. Most fisherman fish anything that comes to there neighborhood and sit back and criticize the way an event is run to their friends, instead of offering advice to the Organization or the Director himself. I always ask people to give me feed back on my whole operation, good or bad. I can't fix something that I don't know is broke. As for dead fish, 99% of fish die because the anglers do not take proper care of them in the first place, it usually has nothing to do with the directors, we are not doctors, you can't bring us fish on the verge of death and ask us to perform a miracle and make them swim away. Offer up some help next time you see something that doesn't appear right.
Jason Bubier Director, Goldcity trail...

[Brian D.]

So are you volunteering or what?

Not to steal the thread, but I want to see ur a$$ at DVL in 2 weeks for the ironman!

LOL.. negative amigo.

See my what>!! Hey now! LOL. Sorry... Im planing a Havasu or Vegas run that weekend. Well at least thats the plan.

---------------------------

jletsinger - I think you missed the intent of my question. It was merely directed towards NEW directors. Creating a simple training course isn't that difficult. It could be self-paced and done online, then again it could be done at the Jamboree. If an org wants permits then they can take a class or take training materials back to their offices and make sure each of their directors take the course. No pass or fail grade. Orgs would be ultimately responsible to make sure their TDs are kept abreast.

Again, its just a thought.

Its NOT an insult to the seasoned guys either. They may be great guys who win lots of derbies, however that doesn't mean they know all of the latest DFG regulations that apply to hosting derbies or the latest info of quagga or fish care techniques.

Without govt intervention this could be a good opportunity to unite as anglers and give our best (collective) effort to show the DFG and lake management that we care about our resources and are willing to police ourselves.

Again, its an idea and loosely thought out. This is definitely something that we/tourney orgs can do ourselves with some guidance from the DFG. No big brother paranoia needed.

Egos aside, its about respect to our lakes and environment.

[GKramer]

You mean they're not trained? Give me back my clipboard! Actually, I'm a little surprised; but it will probably take a crisis to change anything. Always does.

gk

www.kramergonerfishing.com

[Mike Giusti]

If you guys want my staff and I will be willing to help train the new or existing TD's. We can advise on what the problems we've seen and how to avoid most issues.

[Brian Linehan]

Hey Mike-

I think it would be an excellent idea if you, Quinn, or anyone else on your staff to show up at the Ironaman event I'm running on July 31 to show the guys how to needle and explain that needling is not a winter only technique. I've seen a few fish die this year because the guys didn't needle the fish and when I asked if they needled, they said no. It's so easy and I don't care what time of year it is, if the fish is on it's side and struggling, needle it!

Anyways, we start our derby at noon so if someone wanted to do a mini seminar during our rules meeting around 11:00, I think it would be really beneficial.

What do you think? Maybe even a live display!

Thanks Mike!
Brian

[BassinBama]

A certification process would be difficult, however, if you are fishing a particular circuit/region and know that they are looking at a particular person and feel that person is not qualified then contact the front office of that org. However, keep in mind this is not the time to bring the guy/gal down because of your personal past issues with this person.

Now with this being said, yes I agree whole heartedly that it would be beneficial for TD's, weigh-masters, etc. of not only team tourney org's, but club guys also to maybe go through some training with your local DFG, biologist, dam keepers, etc. Like Mike stated this would serve notice of issues and ways to prevent them from future occurence. Also, as anglers it is in our best interest to assist the org's by all means possible to prevent mistakes or to ensure we do not re-live the past.

Also, if you do not fish a circuit and hear of "rumors" please contact the TD or org to express your concerns. But ask this, if I am not fishing is this my business, do I have the proper information and can I give suggestions that would help not worsen. In other words, DO NOT rely on 2nd hand information and continue to draw negativity to the situation.

We are our own keepers and should "police" each other.


Rich "Bama" Welch

[hippie]

DAY for T.D.and thats tourny director not touch D--K

[Marty]

I’m no TD and I don’t think I will ever be. In either case I have to be careful how I say this – I don’t want to get in the monkey barrel for having an opinion.

With all of the Anglers wanting 100% pay back and the Org’s wanting a cut of that too (I’m assuming this), the TD don’t make shlt for doing a good or bad job (in most cases I only have seen good jobs). Now you want him or her to go get a certification to go and get hollered at. In my opinion it is the Org’s responsibility to only put out the best TD they have or go out and recruit some of the better TD from other Org’s (wait that has happen). If an Org’s wants to put out a bad TD that does not know what they are doing – it is their business and they will suffer for it. Now who controls the Org’s? That happens to be me and you by choosing which ones to fish. Dose that happen? How many time you seen team events with only 15 to 20 boats? How long do you think they will last?

When I sign up for a tournament the TD is the last thing I think about. Most of them do it because they love the sport, it can’t be for the money. The way I see it, if you want to control the number of fish dieing or teach the Angler to pop a fish boost the penalty for a dead fish – it is part of being a tournament angler. I mean ¼ pound for a dead fish? How about the dead fish and the next biggest one – you will have angler taking care of their fish – they will lean to give mouth to mouth! (O they will bitch but they will do it). If you want the Org’s to know latest DFG regulations, all you have to do is take a permit away from an Org that does not follow the regulation – that will put the other Org’s right in line – As “Men’s Warehouseâ€

[Brian D.]

Thanks for your assistance Mike.

Ultimately I put the onus on the orgs to make sure that their staff is properly trained and well versed in fish care, DFG/Lake regulations, etc. No longer is it good enough to merely know how to handle a clipboard and microphone.

Having trained TD's is a good thing. Whenever a derby is held, there is a multitude of bad things that could happen. Training will eliminate a good portion of those "bad things". After the fact is not okay in my book especially when it affects all of us fisherman.

[DL]

Thanks for your assistance Mike.

Ultimately I put the onus on the orgs to make sure that their staff is properly trained and well versed in fish care, DFG/Lake regulations, etc. No longer is it good enough to merely know how to handle a clipboard and microphone.

Having trained TD's is a good thing. Whenever a derby is held, there is a multitude of bad things that could happen. Training will eliminate a good portion of those "bad things". After the fact is not okay in my book especially when it affects all of us fisherman.

Training TD's on fish care will do nothing unless the Anglers do on the water what they are supposed to. By the time the fish get to the scales in a local team event, their fate is already sealed. Anglers taxi bloated fish all over the lake because they either don't know how to needle fish, or don't give two shyts whether they do it or not. Yes fish die, but the next time a team is DQ'd because they brought in a limit of floaters will be the first. I have worked for three organizations since 2005 and two of them were team tournament orgs. Every event I have ever worked, there were fish brought in that had obviously needed to be needled hours before they were brought to the scales. Yes, having qualified directors is necessary, but it starts on the water with the anglers. I have listened to TD's talk until they are blue in the face regarding needling and fish care....and we still have guys bringing bloated and mishandled fish to the scales.

[Mike Giusti]

Hey Brian,

I will see what I can work out with having some at your meeting. I don't think we will be able to actually have fish to needle but we can explain it and maybe do some sort of demo. The best way for angler to learn is to go the release boat and help your staff needle after the weigh-in. They will be surprised how many fish actually need to be needled at this time of year. I will let you know what I work out.

[Mike Giusti]

If the organization don't want to have joint meetings I am willing to meet with them individually, if this helps. I am thinking maybe before the start of next season.

[Lynne]

Mike,

Let's see if we can all do it together....It'll be more fun and also I do believe that we will all learn more since there will be more of us to ask questions.

What would be best for you Mike? I am sure that we all can work out a great date for all.

Lynne

[2ndsuks]

Well said DL


Brian made some good points but I think most of them they need to be directed to the anglers themselves not the directors.

The fact is, some directors are better than others and that's the way it will always be, let the consumer sort um out.

I know I'm going to get some flack from this but this is the way I see it.

Other than the rookie leagues, if you fish tournaments and consider yourself a tournament angler then you better be willing to take the responsibilities that come with it.

Every angler should know the DFG rules and regulations that may effect their fishing.
Every angler should know how to manage and care for their own fish.
Every angler needs to educate themselves on Quagga Mussels and their effect on our fisheries.

My point is, every angler needs to take personal responsibility, lets not push blame on some one else.

Get educated and prepared if you call yourself a tournament angler.

We live in the biggest nanny state as it is , lets not add to it.

[Fast 492]

+1 , 2ndsucks hit the nail on the head and DL was spot on.

[Mike Giusti]

I think we can adjust to whatever works best for all of you. We can schedule to meet almost any day and at anytime. Maybe early September before all the championships start. Just let us know what you work out.

[Brian D.]

I'm with you guys here. Regardless of TD training, personal responsibility should be paramount. Being a TD can be a very tough job sometimes and no matter how prepared and good the TD is, people will still bring in short, dead, or floating fish in bags with little or no water. But when situations like this come up will all TDs know what do? Some yes, and many no. And, when the public/press sees mismanagement, then thats when we all get the proverbial "black eye". Orgs should make sure their TDs have a certain level of competency and training to adequately to their job hosting derbies.

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Case in point. Note: this is not to single out any org or to open old wounds. This came up in a simple search. Infractions, violations, and mishaps due to poor training are more common than we realize.
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DFG pulls two ABA tournament permits
By Terry Knight -- Record-Bee Outdoors Columnist
Article Last Updated:10/13/2006 06:32:52 AM PDT
The Department of Fish and Game (DFG) is cracking down on bass tournaments held on Clear Lake and American Bass Association (ABA) will be the first to experience the consequences.
According the DFG game warden Lynette Shimek, ABA will have its permits to hold two bass tournaments on Clear Lake revoked for 2006. The tournaments were team events and scheduled for Nov. 19 and Dec. 17.

Shimek said the reason for pulling ABA's permits was because of an incident during a night tournament held on Aug. 26. According to Shimek, the following morning 59 dead bass were found floating at Library Park in Lakeport, which was the tournament's weigh-in site. It is believed that warm water holding too little oxygen caused the die-off.

"There were a number of serious violations that occurred during the tournament which resulted in the die-offs," said Shimek. "Included was the release of the fish at the Fifth Street Ramp instead of a mile offshore as required."

According to Shimek, ABA will be allowed to run tournaments on Clear Lake in 2007 but only under several restrictions. For starters, ABA must use a different tournament director and a release boat.

ABA had scheduled an all-Clear Lake tournament circuit for the 2006-07 season.

That circuit will still go on, however, the first two scheduled tournaments in the circuit (Nov. 19, Dec. 17) will be canceled. The new tournament director will be Ed Clark, the owner of Tackle-It tackle shop in Lakeport.
Shimek said the DFG game wardens will be closely monitoring all bass tournaments held on the lake next year to make sure they abide by the regulations spelled out in their tournament permits.

"We want to work with the tournament organizations and fishermen to make sure their tournaments are successful while at the same time protecting the fish. It's vital that the bass be taken care of during the weigh-in procedures so the survival rate stays high. We won't tolerate sloppy weigh-ins," said Shimek.

It should be noted that in past years ABA has done a good job during its tournaments. In fact, ABA donated a special release boat to the local bass club to be used during bass club tournaments.

A number of bass fishermen say the action by DFG is long overdue. There are approximately six tournament organizations operating tournaments on the lake, plus a number of specialty tournaments. While most of the organizations do a good job protecting the fish, there have beem some terrible weigh-ins conducted.