This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

[Gary Dobyns]

I hope you guys are as fed up with our politicians as I am. If this passes each one of us will lose a LOT of dollars that will have to come from somewhere. Probably our FISHING ACCOUNTS!!

Please read and vote this Nov.



VERY IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US TO VOTE NO ON PROP 25

This would be another serious blow to the housing market![AB:] and your home

Another important reason to get everyone out to the POLL

All we need at this point in CA is for property taxes to rise. This is a very real possibility if prop 25 passes.


Pay Attention Now. Easy To Understand.

Hey all you CA voters...please be alert to what Prop 25 can do to endanger Prop 13.

Real Estate - Prop. 13 OVERTURNED

To one and all…rest assured if Prop. 25 passes in the upcoming Nov. 2nd election the subject headline above will follow just days later!

Prop. 25 will reduce the required Sacramento politician’s vote to make changes to California law from the two-thirds vote requirement currently to a simple-majority.
This means the California congress will have the votes to negate Prop. 13 in order to raise more funds for the financial quagmire the State of California is in.


Given this GUARANTIED FACT we ALL need to warn ALL of our friends, neighbors, associates, and yes even our enemies, to:

VOTE "NO" ON PROP. 25 on NOV. 2ND

As we all know there are few things in life that are “guaranteed.â€

[Robert F]

Gary, I am out here at my house on Guntersville. Decent little place that would sell for about 250K in California. My annual property taxes are $77 bucks

Taxes in Cali would be about 3 grand. We just went to the City Hall to get 12 dollar resident fishing licenses. Looked at the boat registration. Going to be 28 bucks a year but there is no personal property tax bill after that. My boat reg and taxes in Cali, about 300 bucks a year. Launch ramp, free. Roads nice. Everything works. Nobody whining from the state or the city.

Looking at a house in Havasu. Taxes there are about point 77 percent of the assessed value of the home. They are putting sewer in to every home that wants to hook up for 1500 to 2 grand per home. Down in San Diego we pay over 10 grand for a sewer hook-up. My buddy from Arizona bought my F250 that was going to cost me over 300 bucks to re-up the registration. It cost him 40 bucks to transfer and register the truck for the year.

Why California has a problem paying their bills with more money than these other states collect is beyond me. I do know that something needs to be done.

[TWinger]

It is because we give it all away to whom ever for free. When those getting it for free out number those who are paying, the result is not rocket science.

I have also noticed a large increase in the number of Arizona license plates on the road in california now. Any one else notice it? We are going to be the sanctuary state.

We are going to be in real trouble here soon if things do not change. I for one cannot wait until November. If I am disappointed in the results. It will be time to move elsewhere and let this fall into the ocean.

[FinesseKid]

To be bluntly honest, I will be voting YES!!!!

I am a high school biology teacher and I pay THOUSANDS more in property taxes than my next door neighbor. We live in exactly the same floor plan on exactly the same lot size.

However, he is under prop 13 while I AM NOT.

TOTALLY UNFAIR AND TOTAL bologna.

I hope they overturn it and force them to pay what I am paying. It will definitely secure my meager paycheck as an educator.

[TWinger]

I understand your point of view, but you are under the same rule as your neighbor. The difference is, he or she has been there for a long time and have not sold, refinanced or taken out a loan on the property to cause the re-evaluation of the tax base by prop 13 you are under. For the older people who have stayed in there homes and have not done any changes they have benefitted from prop 13. For them it is great. It does seem to be not equal taxation under the law, but that is how it was written.

[Gary Dobyns]

[quote="FinesseKid"]To be bluntly honest, I will be voting YES!!!!

I am a high school biology teacher and I pay THOUSANDS more in property taxes than my next door neighbor. We live in exactly the same floor plan on exactly the same lot size.

However, he is under prop 13 while I AM NOT.

TOTALLY UNFAIR AND TOTAL bologna.

I hope they overturn it and force them to pay what I am paying. It will definitely secure my meager paycheck as an educator.[/quote]

Just so you know I am buying another house today. I will be paying updated taxes, BUT we if are STUPID enough to give them this, there will be no end to raising our property taxes. Yours will be raised again and again. They will further destroy our housing market. Your thought process is FLAWED!!

[TWinger]

I would have to agree with Gary on this. We know what it is going into it with prop13, but we would have little control over the continued increases they could apply if it is not in black and white like prop13 is now.

Nothing should be left open-ended with the government

[Gary Dobyns]

Glad to hear it Robert. Good for you.

This state is SCREWED UP and they want to make it worse. This state also has some of the dumbest SOB's I have ever seen.

I have spent a lot of time lately in Texas. I am BLOWN AWAY at how far a dollar goes there compared to CA. I live in Yuba City which is far cheaper than almost away where in this state and compared to TX it's CRAZY.

[Marty]

Let me give a little more perspective on Proposition 25 that will be voted on this November. California’s both houses of the Legislature are currently controlled by Democrats (who have by history records have voted for higher taxes). If Prop 25 passes, not only Proposition 13 is in danger but everything else that requires two-thirds vote because Prop 25 will reduce the vote down to a simple majority.

It is all about the balance of power in Sacramento – The Legislature against the People. To control our State Government, we the people have the two-thirds vote in our State Constitution. Now the spend and tax group want to remove that protection for they can spend even more.

Sure they are going to come and tell you that the two-thirds vote is stopping them from getting a budgets – A budget that spends more that is taken in from revenues, A budget that borrows from our kids, and a budget that rewards the non-producers.

As Gary said Vote No on Proposition 25.

[TWinger]

Well Said Marty

[ripb8ts]

California

The Governor of California is jogging with his dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out, bites the Governor and attacks his dog.
1. The Governor starts to intervene, but reflects upon the movie "Bambi" and then realizes he should stop; the coyote is only doing what is natural.

2. He calls animal control. Animal Control captures coyote and bills the State $200 testing it for diseases and $500 for relocating it.

3. He calls a veterinarian. The vet collects the dead dog and bills the
State $200 testing it for diseases.

4. The Governor goes to hospital and spends $3,500 getting checked for diseases from the coyote and on getting his bite wound bandaged.

5. The running trail gets shut down for 6 months while Fish & Game conducts a $100,000 survey to make sure the area is free of dangerous animals.

6. The Governor spends $50,000 in state funds implementing a "coyote
awareness" program for residents of the area.

7. The State Legislature spends $2 million to study how to better treat
rabies and how to permanently eradicate the disease throughout the world.

8. The Governor's security agent is fired for not somehow stopping the attack and for letting the Governor attempt to intervene.

9. Additional cost to State of California : $75,000 to hire and train a new security agent with additional special training re: the nature of coyotes.

10. PETA protests the coyote's relocation and files suit against the State.

Arizona :
The Governor of Arizona is jogging with her dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out and attacks.

1. The Governor shoots the coyote with her State-issued pistol and keeps jogging. The Governor has spent $0.50 on a .45 ACP hollow point cartridge.

2. The Buzzards eat the dead coyote.

[Wally]

FinesseKid, Are you SERIOUS? If someone shot you in the foot, would you go out and shoot someone else in the foot just to make you feel better?

Most people under prop 13 are retired and live on a fixed income. What in the hell difference does it make to you what taxes they pay?

I can't believe you said what you did. I built my house 35 years ago and have been paying taxes on it for 35 years. I have payed my share of taxes. How long have you been paying property taxes?

[Robert F]

California

The Governor of California is jogging with his dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out, bites the Governor and attacks his dog.
1. The Governor starts to intervene, but reflects upon the movie "Bambi" and then realizes he should stop; the coyote is only doing what is natural.

2. He calls animal control. Animal Control captures coyote and bills the State $200 testing it for diseases and $500 for relocating it.

3. He calls a veterinarian. The vet collects the dead dog and bills the
State $200 testing it for diseases.

4. The Governor goes to hospital and spends $3,500 getting checked for diseases from the coyote and on getting his bite wound bandaged.

5. The running trail gets shut down for 6 months while Fish & Game conducts a $100,000 survey to make sure the area is free of dangerous animals.

6. The Governor spends $50,000 in state funds implementing a "coyote
awareness" program for residents of the area.

7. The State Legislature spends $2 million to study how to better treat
rabies and how to permanently eradicate the disease throughout the world.

8. The Governor's security agent is fired for not somehow stopping the attack and for letting the Governor attempt to intervene.

9. Additional cost to State of California : $75,000 to hire and train a new security agent with additional special training re: the nature of coyotes.

10. PETA protests the coyote's relocation and files suit against the State.

Arizona :
The Governor of Arizona is jogging with her dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out and attacks.

1. The Governor shoots the coyote with her State-issued pistol and keeps jogging. The Governor has spent $0.50 on a .45 ACP hollow point cartridge.

2. The Buzzards eat the dead coyote.

Like it

I asked somebody out there in Alabama what they thought about a 25 dollar fee to launch a boat. Their answer was somebody would get shot.

Things do need to change but the change that needs to occur is plugging the leak. Being upset that you pay more taxes than your neighbor is not the answer.

The reason prop 13 came in to existence was to curb rampant tax increases. If you think raising your neighbor's property taxes will hire another teacher or stop before hitting your doorstep you are in for a huge disappointment.

[J.Rios]

The dollar goes further pretty much anywhere except Cali.

Finessekid- perhaps if you don't like your wages you should get a different job.Of course then you would lose your summer Vacation and maybe have to break a sweat.

I live in the same house I grew up in.My family has now been there for forty years.It was built in the late thirties ,and has seen better days. It used to be about half a mile out of town , and was a nice quiet place to live. It is now in the center of town. Complete with the daily sirens of emergency vehicles, and log jam of soccer mom's picking their kids up from the middle school that is now across the street.
When I purchased the home from my parents we did a family transfer thus enabling me to utilize prop 13 . I really didn't intend to upgrade the home since it works as is ,and would start changing values as modifications came.It also is the right distance from the Delta and work.

Now tools like yourself would throw me to the wolves by allowing 13 to be gutted! The value because of acreage size would screw up the taxes so friggin bad! I would probably not be able to keep it.
Yeah I really think you need different employment , or a new neighbor so his taxes will look like yours and you can feel better about yerself!!!
Now

[FinesseKid]

I spoke out of frustration so let me clarify my statements:

I do think Prop 13 should be repealed. Absolutely and whole heartedly. However, I understand that people who have it value it and dont want to lose it. BUT, from someone who never had a chance to get Prop 13, OF COURSE I think its unfair.

However, I agree with Gary about future tax increases. That could be disastrous to the responsible homeowner suffering in this economy....like myself.

So, in retrospect, the bill does NOT sound very appealing.

[Jeff C.]

First, this doesn't belong on the fishing page, it should be moved to politics.

Second, I haven't studied the proposition carefully, but if it turns out to do what it seems to do I will vote YES.

Why shouldn't the budget be passed on a simple majority vote?
With the law the way it is now, a small minority of politicians currently have the power to hold the state hostage every year when it comes time to pass a budget. The budget should be passed with a simple majority.

[FinesseKid]

The dollar goes further pretty much anywhere except Cali.

Finessekid- perhaps if you don't like your wages you should get a different job.Of course then you would lose your summer Vacation and maybe have to break a sweat.

I live in the same house I grew up in.My family has now been there for forty years.It was built in the late thirties ,and has seen better days. It used to be about half a mile out of town , and was a nice quiet place to live. It is now in the center of town. Complete with the daily sirens of emergency vehicles, and log jam of soccer mom's picking their kids up from the middle school that is now across the street.
When I purchased the home from my parents we did a family transfer thus enabling me to utilize prop 13 . I really didn't intend to upgrade the home since it works as is ,and would start changing values as modifications came.It also is the right distance from the Delta and work.

Now tools like yourself would throw me to the wolves by allowing 13 to be gutted! The value because of acreage size would screw up the taxes so friggin bad! I would probably not be able to keep it.
Yeah I really think you need different employment , or a new neighbor so his taxes will look like yours and you can feel better about yerself!!!
Now

In response to your idiotic response:

First, I am happy with my wages...so far, but I have already suffered a 7% cut in pay and I dont want it cut further.

Second, how dare you claim that my job is not rigorous. Break a sweat? I have 3 degrees and I also carry a second job in the summer to make ends meet. Vacation? Ya right, not for most teachers who fill the time working elsewhere.

Third, not only will I outfish you anyday, but I would enjoy watching you Come into my classroom and teach high school biology. Ya, bring it on.... and Ill watch you run for the hills in 10 minutes. So get off with your ignorant attitude. You think you can do what I do? Get a life punk ***. Pull your head out of the sand and get yourself an education. Only on the internet would you dare attack me personally like that.

Face to face you would keep your trap shut tight. Try me and see. See you at the next NBW.

have a nice day.

[Jrfish]

Where have you been hiding out down here in Texas Gary? I am a recent transplant to Dallas and yes, the dollar goes farther. For example I paid 2.35 a gallon this morning.
Ironically for this topic property taxes are about the only downside. That and the tornados we had yesterday. In Texas you pay no state income tax only federal, but they are also talking about raising property taxes next year. The upshot is you can buy waterfront on Lake Fork for under $250,000, ya know, if your into to that sort of thing.

[Whoopbass]

First, this doesn't belong on the fishing page, it should be moved to politics.

Second, I haven't studied the proposition carefully, but if it turns out to do what it seems to do I will vote YES.

Why shouldn't the budget be passed on a simple majority vote?
With the law the way it is now, a small minority of politicians currently have the power to hold the state hostage every year when it comes time to pass a budget. The budget should be passed with a simple majority.

Because the majority of Politicians are Democrats. Nothing else needs to be said.

Finessekid......SHUT UP. You sound more like a burger flipper then a teacher with 3 degrees.

[eagle123777]

as was said before...it is not just about prop 13 that will just open the door for a state assembly loaded with liberal idiots that think putting our money in any open hand is just fine.....why cause it creates votes for the demo liberal left and keeps them in SAC and DC why do u think they passed healthcare 30 million new votes...and if u think they did it cause they care about their health then its time uput the ole head back in the sand.....

[896J]

Does any other state have a property tax system with something like prop 13 that caps the increase in the taxable value of a house? I'm not an economist and I've never lived outside of California. I would like to know what tax scheme works best overall to provide good schools and such, because I'm thinking my daughter will have to go to private school in a couple of years when she starts school... things have got pretty bad lately to the point where $600/mo, that's not tax deductible, may need to be part of my budget

[kane-o]

wow, there is sooooo many good points here, YES WE NEED TO DEFEAT PROP 25, not only for property tax issues, but EVERY legislative bill would ONLY REQUIRE A MAJORITY VOTE.... therefore anything they wanted to pass they could AND WILL... yes we are the highest taxed state in the country, and the state is MAKING MONEY hands over fists, from every department. i know for a fact that the pensions for cal-pers retirees will break california's buget in a few years. im TOTALLY on board with pensions for union workers, but for state employees, weather its police or fire, c.h.p., d.m.v., cal trans, the list is endless, these employees work 20 years and can retire and get 90% of their highest year of earning's in pension for the rest of their lives. how can the state survive paying these kinds of pensions ? i worked in the glaziers and glassworkers union for 1975 to 1997, here in the l.a. area. i paid into my pension double for 12 years so i could retire at 55 with FULL monitary award, which was to be $2400. a month before taxes. well the pension fund defaulted and went to the " pension benefit guaranty corporation " which IS THE FEDERAL GOVERMENT taking control of defaulted pensions, and awarding the remaining money to the recieptients... some of the guys who retired 5 years ago got the FULL $2400.... i went to apply at 55 and my pension amount WAS $1154 ?? im like W.T.F., i found out the plan is only 10% funded i got 3 of my checks for the $1154.... then in january of 2010 my pension WAS REDUCED TO $650 A MONTH... I SEE $485. A MONTH FOR 22 YEARS OF UNION WORKING.... then i went to work for united airlines for 12 years and LOST MORE THAN I MADE.... and they DUMPED 6 BILLION dollars of pension, to THE P.B.G.C. .... so my UNITED AIRLINES PENSION IS $32. A MONTH.... and it will go to $450 if i draw it at 65 years of age.... so im getting less then $900.a month if i make it to 65... FOR 34 YEARS OF WORKING... so yes im kinda angry about some the high pensions, since i was raped of mine.... i also lost ALL MY STOCK at united airlines.... if prop 25 passes were going to be financally done we both have health issues, and are just barely saving our home now ! and our home value went from $779,000 to $540,00.. but were still paying the high property taxes.... this state is a mess, and is only going to get worse

[drew]

Don't we all benefit from Prop 13, including recent home buyers and renters. Prop 13 limits how much your tax rate can be increased.

[FinesseKid]

Finessekid......SHUT UP. You sound more like a burger flipper then a teacher with 3 degrees.

Spoken like a true clown. LOL

[FinesseKid]

California

The Governor of California is jogging with his dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out, bites the Governor and attacks his dog.
1. The Governor starts to intervene, but reflects upon the movie "Bambi" and then realizes he should stop; the coyote is only doing what is natural.

2. He calls animal control. Animal Control captures coyote and bills the State $200 testing it for diseases and $500 for relocating it.

3. He calls a veterinarian. The vet collects the dead dog and bills the
State $200 testing it for diseases.

4. The Governor goes to hospital and spends $3,500 getting checked for diseases from the coyote and on getting his bite wound bandaged.

5. The running trail gets shut down for 6 months while Fish & Game conducts a $100,000 survey to make sure the area is free of dangerous animals.

6. The Governor spends $50,000 in state funds implementing a "coyote
awareness" program for residents of the area.

7. The State Legislature spends $2 million to study how to better treat
rabies and how to permanently eradicate the disease throughout the world.

8. The Governor's security agent is fired for not somehow stopping the attack and for letting the Governor attempt to intervene.

9. Additional cost to State of California : $75,000 to hire and train a new security agent with additional special training re: the nature of coyotes.

10. PETA protests the coyote's relocation and files suit against the State.

Arizona :
The Governor of Arizona is jogging with her dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out and attacks.

1. The Governor shoots the coyote with her State-issued pistol and keeps jogging. The Governor has spent $0.50 on a .45 ACP hollow point cartridge.

2. The Buzzards eat the dead coyote.

This is HILARIOUS! And so true that it's scary.

[offduty]

Well I work for Cal Fire and can tell you nobody gets 90% at 20 years. Its 90% @ 30 years. and thats being reduced for new hires. I work 72 hr shifts thats 3 days away from home a week for a total of 12 out of 28 days. I have to work overtime to make ends meet as does almost everyone else in the department. I need 3 days O.T. to make ends meet as I am a topped out firefighter that makes $14.00 an hr.

The pension is still pretty darn good but most departments make a lot more than I do for a top step firefighter so the pension somewhat makes up for low hourly pay, if you make it to retirement without cancer. When I started it was a part time job 4-5 months in the summer for minimum wage. More than once I had to roll change to get back to work for the 5 hour drive. I remember taking home less than $2000.00 a month and as a seasonal I worked 4 days a week. We got paid minimum wage for the first 8 hours of the day and half of minimum wage for the next 11 hours, we did not get paid for the next 5 hours. How is it possible that a state agency can pay half of minimum wage with the Fair Labor Standards Act? They did it for years.

Being a seasonal employee was what it took to land this job and I never went on unemployment in the off season. I took every fire service related course I could and worked another job. I did this for 5 years and spent another 2 on an ambulance before being hired full time.

If you have a family it places a lot of stress on them when you work 3-4 days a week for 72 to 96 hours straight. Thats not to mention getting stuck on duty during California's heavy fire behavior for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. I challenge anyone to work as a wildland firefighter it is some of the most arduous work out there. It gets well over 100 deg and your eating smoke while sweating your *** off. Most of the time its dragging hose up a steep hill, just brutal at times. By the way a buddy of mine worked as a seasonal for 15 years before getting picked up full time. I really feel for your pension being destroyed, it just plain pisses me off too but your info on state fire pensions is not right. If I retire as a Firefighter at 30 years I will get about what your glaziers pension should have been.

Rich

[jcruz]

Proposition 25 if passed would allow for a simple majority of legislators to approve the state budget. Currently, a proposed State Budget requires 2/3rd in both houses and the Governor's signature.

Proposition 25 PRESERVES the requirement that a supermajority vote is required to RAISE taxes. The people who wrote this measure knew that it would be DOA if they included lowering the tax threshold to a simple majority. Raising taxes is in this economy is "political suicide" for any politician to even talk about.

Sacramento politicians can raise taxes now with a simple majority, by simply calling them a fee -- but we will save explaining that for another day.

Proposition 13 is a Constitutional Amendment, approved by voters in 1978, and CANNOT be repealed unless a measure to "roll it back" is put before and APPROVED by a majority of California voters.

Its upsetting to sit here and read people rant and full out bash others who have a difference of opinion, when those BASHING don't have a clue what they are talking about. For the record, I oppose Prop 25, but for reasons that have nothing to do with Prop 13.

[kane-o]

off-duty, im sorry if i was not correct on your pension plan, i do know that they very from city to city, look at the the city of bell, their city manager is going to get over 1.3 million per year for only 8 years working there... i know its all under scruntity right now, but thats just an example of different pension plans... i do thank you for your hard work as a wildland firefighter, my neighbor is a retired l.a.f.d. i live in a high fire danger area, do brush clearance, so i do appreciate the kind of work you do. i was not trying to bash anyone, just pointing out PART OF THE REASON CALIFORNIA IS BROKE

[obsessed fisherman]

Ladies and/or Gentlemen
There is only one answer to whether or not it should be easier for the Government, be it Federal, State, or Local, to raise taxes. It is always NO!

[Robert F]

I do think Prop 13 should be repealed. Absolutely and whole heartedly. However, I understand that people who have it value it and dont want to lose it. BUT, from someone who never had a chance to get Prop 13, OF COURSE I think its unfair.

However, I agree with Gary about future tax increases. That could be disastrous to the responsible homeowner suffering in this economy....like myself.

So, in retrospect, the bill does NOT sound very appealing.

As a new homeowner you ARE benefiting from Prop 13. The next year that property values rise your taxes will only incur a fixed minimal increase. Without prop 13 your taxes could increase any amount the assessor deems reasonable.

Prop. 13 was about stabilizing property tax increases. The number of homes that do not change hands every 5 to 10 years in this state is very low. It is good to have this discussion as very soon there will be twisted ads touting the benefits of this proposition. Look and listen to both sides and vote wisely.

[gabuelhaj]

As a new homeowner you ARE benefiting from Prop 13. The next year that property values rise your taxes will only incur a fixed minimal increase. Without prop 13 your taxes could increase any amount the assessor deems reasonable.

This is what sucks about prop 13. When the home values decreased, the minimal taxes kept increasing, automatically! You had to prove to the tax board what the new home value is by comps in the area and they still increased the tax on an "slightly" artificially inflated value although somewhat lower than the original increased value.

Looks like there are more "new" homeowners (voters for prop 25) than there are "grandfathered" older homeowners (voters against prop 25) so they are playing the numbers game at this point.

Now, if they got rid of all the illegal aliens and their subsidized government monetary compensations (our tax and social security dollars), I just might consider voting for prop 25. This should free up a few trillion dollars for them to spend as they please! Either way it's a tax write off so no biggy.

Good luck!

[offduty]

off-duty, im sorry if i was not correct on your pension plan, i do know that they very from city to city, look at the the city of bell, their city manager is going to get over 1.3 million per year for only 8 years working there... i know its all under scruntity right now, but thats just an example of different pension plans... i do thank you for your hard work as a wildland firefighter, my neighbor is a retired l.a.f.d. i live in a high fire danger area, do brush clearance, so i do appreciate the kind of work you do. i was not trying to bash anyone, just pointing out PART OF THE REASON CALIFORNIA IS BROKE

No worries Bro. When I saw the first post in this thread I thought OH SNAP ITS ON LIKE DONKEY KONG. Bet we can get 3 pages to it if it does not go to the political forum soon

Just playin
Rich

[Robert F]

Looks like there are more "new" homeowners (voters for prop 25) than there are "grandfathered" older homeowners (voters against prop 25) so they are playing the numbers game at this point.

Biggest problem Glenn is EVERYBODY gets to vote on this. Not just property owners. Why would a person living in an apartment care if the home owner's taxes increase?

[chf8500]

I could not agree with you more on this issue, there are, a few sane people left in California. Anyone in their right mind would certainly have reservations about letting the already over educated, over paid, over perked, underworked and for the last few years it seems highly corrupted, politicians have an opportunity to undue what has been a relief for many home owners that purchased prior to prop 13. I like many others that are getting to our retirement age that still live in this, what was once the best state one could live in, are having a great difficulty seeing eye to eye with some of the younger generation that feels every one should be a clone of the ones that are successfull, my advice to them is get with the program, work for it and quit bellyaching, in the years that were prosperous that is exactly how we managed to get ahead. Prop 13 was put in place so the state could make a dollar when the economy was growing and it did. What has our state politicians done with the windfalls they have passed, SQUANDER is my best assesment and it will continue to do so as long as the voters, or lack therof let them. Rant over

[drew]

If I owned a rental property I would try to pass on any increase in my overhead. If taxes increase so does the rent.

Why would a person living in an apartment care if the home owner's taxes increase?

[Gary Dobyns]

Very well said 8500. I did not even know there was a political forum. Important stuff hits here and is read. This is important to all of us. One poster here already is seeing the bigger picture and his vote will show it. We keep taking the $$ hits we have been and our sport will die. No one will have the money to play.


[quote="chf8500"]I could not agree with you more on this issue, there are, a few sane people left in California. Anyone in their right mind would certainly have reservations about letting the already over educated, over paid, over perked, underworked and for the last few years it seems highly corrupted, politicians have an opportunity to undue what has been a relief for many home owners that purchased prior to prop 13. I like many others that are getting to our retirement age that still live in this, what was once the best state one could live in, are having a great difficulty seeing eye to eye with some of the younger generation that feels every one should be a clone of the ones that are successfull, my advice to them is get with the program, work for it and quit bellyaching, in the years that were prosperous that is exactly how we managed to get ahead. Prop 13 was put in place so the state could make a dollar when the economy was growing and it did. What has our state politicians done with the windfalls they have passed, SQUANDER is my best assesment and it will continue to do so as long as the voters, or lack therof let them. Rant over[/quote]

[whatabunchofidiots]

Finesseboy wrote

Get a life punk ***. Pull your head out of the sand and get yourself an education. Only on the internet would you dare attack me personally like that.

Face to face you would keep your trap shut tight. Try me and see. See you at the next NBW.

I hope you never teach my kids. Probably call them out if they offended you. No wonder our kids are turning out to be violent. Great example pal. BULLY

[bassdaddy]

I've been a teacher/coach more than half my life. I have met some educated idiots in that time, but I don't know any teachers who have three degrees and still have to work a summer job and I have never met a science teacher who is actually as tough as this guy talks.
I sincerely hope he is just some guy running his mouth because otherwise he's making people in my profession look bad and he's doing it in a pathetic fashion.
Tree Plumbtree

[StockOption]

Definitely NO on 25. Without question.

Proposition 25 increases the likelihood of state tax increases – and makes it less likely that the Legislature will carefully evaluate programs for waste and inefficiency – by reducing the vote requirement for passing the state budget and tax increases that are part of the budget. The initiative also effectively eliminates voters' right to use the referendum process to stop taxes that are disguised as "fees" and other bad legislation.

http://www.no25yes26.com/wp-content/upl ... ysisPW.pdf

[lunker punker]

California

The Governor of California is jogging with his dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out, bites the Governor and attacks his dog.
1. The Governor starts to intervene, but reflects upon the movie "Bambi" and then realizes he should stop; the coyote is only doing what is natural.

2. He calls animal control. Animal Control captures coyote and bills the State $200 testing it for diseases and $500 for relocating it.

3. He calls a veterinarian. The vet collects the dead dog and bills the
State $200 testing it for diseases.

4. The Governor goes to hospital and spends $3,500 getting checked for diseases from the coyote and on getting his bite wound bandaged.

5. The running trail gets shut down for 6 months while Fish & Game conducts a $100,000 survey to make sure the area is free of dangerous animals.

6. The Governor spends $50,000 in state funds implementing a "coyote
awareness" program for residents of the area.

7. The State Legislature spends $2 million to study how to better treat
rabies and how to permanently eradicate the disease throughout the world.

8. The Governor's security agent is fired for not somehow stopping the attack and for letting the Governor attempt to intervene.

9. Additional cost to State of California : $75,000 to hire and train a new security agent with additional special training re: the nature of coyotes.

10. PETA protests the coyote's relocation and files suit against the State.

Arizona :
The Governor of Arizona is jogging with her dog along a nature trail. A coyote jumps out and attacks.

1. The Governor shoots the coyote with her State-issued pistol and keeps jogging. The Governor has spent $0.50 on a .45 ACP hollow point cartridge.

2. The Buzzards eat the dead coyote.

Thats PERFECT

[lunker punker]

To be bluntly honest, I will be voting YES!!!!

I am a high school biology teacher and I pay THOUSANDS more in property taxes than my next door neighbor. We live in exactly the same floor plan on exactly the same lot size.

However, he is under prop 13 while I AM NOT.

TOTALLY UNFAIR AND TOTAL bologna.

I hope they overturn it and force them to pay what I am paying. It will definitely secure my meager paycheck as an educator.

Is this what you teach to OUR children in your classroom? Is this the way you would like to teach them : How to respond to a political thread on a fishing website? Three degrees? I am not convinced after reading this. Do yourself and OUR children a favor and refer to your "three degrees" before you make a total TROLL of yourself on the internet for everybody to see. Thank God you will never have my children in your classroom.


Having feelings and opinions is GOOD . Just friendly advice: Dont use "I am a teacher" and "bologna" in the same post and notify others you have three degrees.

California has the best fishing hands down. i love the scenery. It sucks trying to make a living here. Texas looks better and better every day to me. I'm with Gary and the rest in voting no on this. The only answers this state has is to take more and spend more. The irresponsable get rewarded and we just work harder for less compensation. Why work when you can rely on the government? Because they want you to rely on them. I will keep my freedom and rely on myself.

[rmbumpus]

When I was 16 years old I worked in a gas station. I made $2.00 an hour. I really needed a raise. So I asked for $3.00 and hour and 5 more hours a week. This is what my boss said, "well I guess you are not going to be working here anymore because you are not earning the $2.00 an hour I am paying you now".

Why should we give our state gov. more money when they don't know how to manage the money they are getting now?

I am grateful for learning that lesson. Changed my outlook and work ethic.

[mark poulson]

I voted for Prop 13. way back when.
I know Howard Jarvis really represented appartment and commercial property owners, but residential homeowners got the same protection.
It came about because the Legislature was too gutless to stand up and say we need to raise the general taxes, so they just kept raising property taxes to pay for everything.
And they're still doing it.
Look how they got around the intent of the law, which was to let people be able to afford to stay in their homes, by screwing new home buyers.
They will never change.
If the legislature had raised sales taxes by 1/2 a percent then, we wouldn't be in the fix we're in today.
The old saying, "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure" really holds true here. Once they figured out how to get around accountablity for their lousy financial governance, the State politicians went nuts, taking money from everything else to fund stuff that really needed new revenue sources, i.e. taxes.
When the state was flush, back when we had steel and auto and heavy manufacturing, we could afford it.
But we don't have those jobs anymore.
We have cleaner air, a good thing, but now we have lower paying jobs, and less of them, a bad thing.
I think Prop 13 should not be a part of any effort to reduce the 2/3 majority requirement for new taxes, or raising taxes.
And I think we need a new Prop 13 to roll back the crazy property taxes homeowners buying now have to pay, just like we did back then.

[FinesseKid]

I've been a teacher/coach more than half my life. I have met some educated idiots in that time, but I don't know any teachers who have three degrees and still have to work a summer job and I have never met a science teacher who is actually as tough as this guy talks.
I sincerely hope he is just some guy running his mouth because otherwise he's making people in my profession look bad and he's doing it in a pathetic fashion.
Tree Plumbtree

Man, every idiot has an opinion...including you. Never met a tough science teacher? Step up then and Ill shake your hand. I was simply responding to a personal attack. Obviously you overlooked it. So I will be more than happy to handle you too.

Pathetic? Take a look in the mirror.

I doubt youre a teacher or a coach. You simply have no clue as to the income of educators in CA.

If you dont like what I say....dont respond. I will vigorously respond to ANY personal attack. If you dont like my opinion...fine, but dont attack me or my profession and you will be fine.

[fun4fish]

"Prop. 25 is a simple budget reform that breaks legislative gridlock by allowing a simple majority of legislators to approve the budget—just like in 47 other states. Meanwhile, Prop. 25 preserves the ²/³ vote required to raise taxes.

Late budgets cost taxpayers millions of dollars, hurt schools and services, damage California’s credit rating and give special treatment to interest groups at the expense of ordinary citizens. Under the current system, no one is held accountable. This will change under Prop. 25—a common sense reform that:
——Holds legislators accountable when they don’t do their jobs. For every day the budget is late, legislators are docked a day’s pay plus expenses. Importantly, they can’t pay themselves back when the budget is finally passed.
——Changes the vote requirement needed for budget approval, so a majority of legislators can pass the budget, instead of allowing a small minority of legislators to hold it captive.
——Preserves the constitutional requirement that ²/³ of the Legislature must approve new or higher taxes.
When last year’s budget was late, California issued 450,000 IOUs to small businesses, state workers and others who do business with the state, costing taxpayers over $8 million in interest payments alone.
Under the current system, a small group of legislators can hold the budget hostage, with the “ransomâ€

[FinesseKid]

Thank God you will never have my children in your classroom.

Your loss, my biology kids have some of the highest STR Test scores in the COUNTY and have for the past four years.

So I am a lousy teacher because I spoke my mind and used the word: "bologna"?

You are pathetic.

I stated my opinion about voting yes, then, later, I changed my mind after I read the bill more closely. You obviously didnt see that post yet chose to open your mouth anyway.

Like many parents I see.

[FinesseKid]

I voted for Prop 13. way back when.
I know Howard Jarvis really represented appartment and commercial property owners, but residential homeowners got the same protection.
It came about because the Legislature was too gutless to stand up and say we need to raise the general taxes, so they just kept raising property taxes to pay for everything.
And they're still doing it.
Look how they got around the intent of the law, which was to let people be able to afford to stay in their homes, by screwing new home buyers.
They will never change.
If the legislature had raised sales taxes by 1/2 a percent then, we wouldn't be in the fix we're in today.
The old saying, "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure" really holds true here. Once they figured out how to get around accountablity for their lousy financial governance, the State politicians went nuts, taking money from everything else to fund stuff that really needed new revenue sources, i.e. taxes.
When the state was flush, back when we had steel and auto and heavy manufacturing, we could afford it.
But we don't have those jobs anymore.
We have cleaner air, a good thing, but now we have lower paying jobs, and less of them, a bad thing.
I think Prop 13 should not be a part of any effort to reduce the 2/3 majority requirement for new taxes, or raising taxes.
And I think we need a new Prop 13 to roll back the crazy property taxes homeowners buying now have to pay, just like we did back then.

I think Howard Jarvis was visionary and his views on taxation and his help in the design and introduction of Prop 13 were great for their time.

Unfortunately the economic climate has changed. The way public programs are funded is flawed. Perhaps thats why this new bill was introduced.

[Andy Lippert]

To be bluntly honest, I will be voting YES!!!!

I am a high school biology teacher and I pay THOUSANDS more in property taxes than my next door neighbor. We live in exactly the same floor plan on exactly the same lot size.

However, he is under prop 13 while I AM NOT.

TOTALLY UNFAIR AND TOTAL bologna.

I hope they overturn it and force them to pay what I am paying. It will definitely secure my meager paycheck as an educator.

Is this what you teach to OUR children in your classroom? Is this the way you would like to teach them : How to respond to a political thread on a fishing website? Three degrees? I am not convinced after reading this. Do yourself and OUR children a favor and refer to your "three degrees" before you make a total TROLL of yourself on the internet for everybody to see. Thank God you will never have my children in your classroom.


Having feelings and opinions is GOOD . Just friendly advice: Dont use "I am a teacher" and "bologna" in the same post and notify others you have three degrees.

California has the best fishing hands down. i love the scenery. It sucks trying to make a living here. Texas looks better and better every day to me. I'm with Gary and the rest in voting no on this. The only answers this state has is to take more and spend more. The irresponsable get rewarded and we just work harder for less compensation. Why work when you can rely on the government? Because they want you to rely on them. I will keep my freedom and rely on myself.

+1

[Andy Lippert]

[quote="fun4fish"]"Prop. 25 is a simple budget reform that breaks legislative gridlock by allowing a simple majority of legislators to approve the budget—just like in 47 other states. Meanwhile, Prop. 25 preserves the ²/³ vote required to raise taxes.

Late budgets cost taxpayers millions of dollars, hurt schools and services, damage California’s credit rating and give special treatment to interest groups at the expense of ordinary citizens. Under the current system, no one is held accountable. This will change under Prop. 25—a common sense reform that:
——Holds legislators accountable when they don’t do their jobs. For every day the budget is late, legislators are docked a day’s pay plus expenses. Importantly, they can’t pay themselves back when the budget is finally passed.
——Changes the vote requirement needed for budget approval, so a majority of legislators can pass the budget, instead of allowing a small minority of legislators to hold it captive.
——Preserves the constitutional requirement that ²/³ of the Legislature must approve new or higher taxes.
When last year’s budget was late, California issued 450,000 IOUs to small businesses, state workers and others who do business with the state, costing taxpayers over $8 million in interest payments alone.
Under the current system, a small group of legislators can hold the budget hostage, with the “ransomâ€

[mark poulson]

[quote="fun4fish"]"Prop. 25 is a simple budget reform that breaks legislative gridlock by allowing a simple majority of legislators to approve the budget—just like in 47 other states. Meanwhile, Prop. 25 preserves the ²/³ vote required to raise taxes.

Late budgets cost taxpayers millions of dollars, hurt schools and services, damage California’s credit rating and give special treatment to interest groups at the expense of ordinary citizens. Under the current system, no one is held accountable. This will change under Prop. 25—a common sense reform that:
——Holds legislators accountable when they don’t do their jobs. For every day the budget is late, legislators are docked a day’s pay plus expenses. Importantly, they can’t pay themselves back when the budget is finally passed.
——Changes the vote requirement needed for budget approval, so a majority of legislators can pass the budget, instead of allowing a small minority of legislators to hold it captive.
——Preserves the constitutional requirement that ²/³ of the Legislature must approve new or higher taxes.
When last year’s budget was late, California issued 450,000 IOUs to small businesses, state workers and others who do business with the state, costing taxpayers over $8 million in interest payments alone.
Under the current system, a small group of legislators can hold the budget hostage, with the “ransomâ€