This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

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lunker punker
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by lunker punker »

FinesseKid wrote:
lunker punker wrote:
Thank God you will never have my children in your classroom.

Your loss, my biology kids have some of the highest STR Test scores in the COUNTY and have for the past four years.

So I am a lousy teacher because I spoke my mind and used the word: "bologna"?

You are pathetic.


I stated my opinion about voting yes, then, later, I changed my mind after I read the bill more closely. You obviously didnt see that post yet chose to open your mouth anyway.

Like many parents I see.
I fail to see what my " loss" is. Reacting in such an obnoxious manner does not reflect upon you in a good light. I am glad your students test high. You will never teach mine. Trust me, my kids teachers are more than satisfactory. They know how to intelligently discuss thier opinions or beliefs in a tactful manner.
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CATCHEMCARO
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by CATCHEMCARO »

Great topic Gary. My parents worked hard to buy there little house 38 years ago and they paid it off. They are retired and on a fixed income. Prop 13 is great for them. I didn't know anything about prop 25 until you brought it to my attention Gary. Thanks, I will spread the word and vote NO.

I have always felt that our officials are like the Wolf guarding the Hen house.

Rich
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fun4fish
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by fun4fish »

Andy Lippert wrote:Granted this legislation is 2000 pages thick, but I ask what can you all suggest be done to move forward? Do you realize how many of your tax dollars are going to politicians that are running in place??

If you think taxes are not eventually going up in a state that is closing down fire depts and closing schools your coffee just isn't strong enough.
So we should all just vote yes because taxes are going to go up eventually, anyway?? What a joke! That's what's wrong with you liberals, you all think that instead of cutting waste, cutting spending, and trimming our budget, you think that we should just tax the American people more in order to cover our shortfalls. It's complete BS! Your liberal post is the EXACT reason why we all need to vote "No" on Prop 25. People that think like you are why this state (the fifth largest economy in the WORLD) is virtually bankrupt. This state has been run by a democratic majority since 1970 in both the Assembly and State Senate, and where we are today should be a case study as to why liberal policy is BAD. It's no surprise that states like Texas who have been led by republicans forever, have budget surplusses while California sits on billions of dollars of debt, while we pay some of this highest taxes in America. OPEN YOUR EYES![/quote]





You must have missed the question I posed :roll: Please enlighten me when your ready. Btw I am an independent realist that votes for the issue not the party.

LOL and when do you think California became the 5th largest economy in the world in the 50's and 60's?? We are bankrupt because the housing and tech bubble popped.

Question for you, what party was the president from that handed over a surplus to the president that has spent over a trillion on two wars and is from the state with one of the biggest numbers of defense contracts??

Believe me I do NOT like paying taxes! However it is clear that this state is made up of BOTH the left and the right. Do I agree with paying state workers a healthy retirement package and not monitoring those on entitlement programs? hell no! But if you zoom out of the picture and look at how BOTH parties work in DC you see a traffic jam. This needs to stop so we can dare I say make progress.
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by FinesseKid »

Andy Lippert wrote:
lunker punker wrote:
FinesseKid wrote:To be bluntly honest, I will be voting YES!!!!

I am a high school biology teacher and I pay THOUSANDS more in property taxes than my next door neighbor. We live in exactly the same floor plan on exactly the same lot size.

However, he is under prop 13 while I AM NOT.

TOTALLY UNFAIR AND TOTAL bologna.

I hope they overturn it and force them to pay what I am paying. It will definitely secure my meager paycheck as an educator.
Is this what you teach to OUR children in your classroom? Is this the way you would like to teach them : How to respond to a political thread on a fishing website? :roll: Three degrees? I am not convinced after reading this. Do yourself and OUR children a favor and refer to your "three degrees" before you make a total TROLL of yourself on the internet for everybody to see. Thank God you will never have my children in your classroom.


Having feelings and opinions is GOOD :D . Just friendly advice: Dont use "I am a teacher" and "bologna" in the same post and notify others you have three degrees. :shock:

California has the best fishing hands down. i love the scenery. It sucks trying to make a living here. Texas looks better and better every day to me. I'm with Gary and the rest in voting no on this. The only answers this state has is to take more and spend more. The irresponsable get rewarded and we just work harder for less compensation. Why work when you can rely on the government? Because they want you to rely on them. I will keep my freedom and rely on myself.


:shock: :lol: +1
Andy, your post has been noted and deemed absolutely worthless. Thank you for your input

FAIL
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FinesseKid
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by FinesseKid »

lunker punker wrote:
FinesseKid wrote:
lunker punker wrote:
Thank God you will never have my children in your classroom.

Your loss, my biology kids have some of the highest STR Test scores in the COUNTY and have for the past four years.

So I am a lousy teacher because I spoke my mind and used the word: "bologna"?

You are pathetic.


I stated my opinion about voting yes, then, later, I changed my mind after I read the bill more closely. You obviously didnt see that post yet chose to open your mouth anyway.

Like many parents I see.
I fail to see what my " loss" is. Reacting in such an obnoxious manner does not reflect upon you in a good light. I am glad your students test high. You will never teach mine. Trust me, my kids teachers are more than satisfactory. They know how to intelligently discuss thier opinions or beliefs in a tactful manner.
You confronting the wrong person. I had no beef with ANY of you, only the individual who got personal with an attack on my qualifications and job.

I was simply defending myself...YOU chose to jump in against me...hence, you will bear the brunt of me as well.

You should be addressing the statement by the fool who started this mess. NOT me.
"I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

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Robert F
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Re: CA vs. AZ

Post by Robert F »

FinesseKid wrote:
bassdaddy wrote:I've been a teacher/coach more than half my life. I have met some educated idiots in that time, but I don't know any teachers who have three degrees and still have to work a summer job and I have never met a science teacher who is actually as tough as this guy talks.
I sincerely hope he is just some guy running his mouth because otherwise he's making people in my profession look bad and he's doing it in a pathetic fashion.
Tree Plumbtree
Man, every idiot has an opinion...including you. Never met a tough science teacher? Step up then and Ill shake your hand. I was simply responding to a personal attack. Obviously you overlooked it. So I will be more than happy to handle you too.

Pathetic? Take a look in the mirror.

I doubt youre a teacher or a coach. You simply have no clue as to the income of educators in CA.

If you dont like what I say....dont respond. I will vigorously respond to ANY personal attack. If you dont like my opinion...fine, but dont attack me or my profession and you will be fine.
Though I do not agree with your view on the subject, I do agree that you have the right to state your opinion any way you feel appropriate. None of these people attacking you will ever walk in your shoes. Unfortunately politics can be a volatile subject and that is why it belongs in it's own forum.........with guns and knives. :lol:
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bassindon69
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Re: CA vs. AZ

Post by bassindon69 »

I see we are all getting along. :wink:
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Rich reeser
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Re: CA vs. AZ

Post by Rich reeser »

all I have to say is hell no on 25
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Brian D.
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Brian D. »

Where is Hippie when you need a thread derailed.
:? :lol:
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by FinesseKid »

Whats really sad is that this is a informational website for bass fishing. Here is a hot thread on politics with tons of views and posts.

There is another thread by some poor boob who needs some help on fishing the Delta for the first time in a few months and he has recieved NO replies at all.

Welcome to WesternBass
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Tin Can
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Tin Can »

What's the difference between Gary Dobyns and Greg Cornish?

If Greg started this thread it would already be in forum it belongs in. Now move this crap where it belongs, the political forum!!
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offduty
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Re: CA vs. AZ

Post by offduty »

bassindon69 wrote:I see we are all getting along. :wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Dynastyworms
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Dynastyworms »

kane-o wrote:I know for a fact that the pensions for cal-pers retirees will break california's buget in a few years. im TOTALLY on board with pensions for union workers, but for state employees, weather its police or fire, c.h.p., d.m.v., cal trans, the list is endless, these employees work 20 years and can retire and get 90% of their highest year of earning's in pension for the rest of their lives.
Kano,
I am one of those "pension guys". I agree with you when it comes to pensions for employees who don't pay into it. But you need to remember who your including. I am listed in your argueement of jobs that will bankrupt the state. I pay 100% in to my pension! You sound just like the orange county register who states the orange county sheriffs department will bankrupt the county. Read between the lines. Who works for this paper? County of orange board member Jon moorelock, the one who collects a large county paid pension and is fighting to sue the sheriffs department over there pension who like me pay into it. The state has many problems we need to stop giving freebees to people who don't contribute
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K.C.K.
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by K.C.K. »

This Guy has 4 degrees hmmmm !!! maybe he should be teaching our kids..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMgyi57s ... r_embedded#!
Sorry Finessekid I just could not resist just kidding. :D :D :D
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Later K.C.
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by FinesseKid »

K.C.K. wrote:This Guy has 4 degrees hmmmm !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMgyi57s ... r_embedded#!
Sorry Finessekid I just could not resist just kidding. :D :D :D
Hey I can take the kidding it doesnt bother me.

The personal attacks I simply wont tolerate.

I would prefer just to keep it light hearted. Some just cant do that.

So I can quote that ancient zen proverb which so eloquently states: "DON'T START NONE......WON'T BE NONE"

Ahhhh so refreshing. :-)
"I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

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CN
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by CN »

Then dont post this crap in the fishing forum.
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Gary Dobyns
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Gary Dobyns »

We continue to let idiots run this state, there will be no need for a fishing forum. Many guys are barely getting by now and many aren't that good. Has anyone noticed we've been losing anglers to other states? A lot of them. There is a reason for it. This state sucks and props like #25 will make it WORSE!! I don't give a shi* where or how we make people aware of these things.

If we don't do something this Nov, our fishing sport will get worse. As far as i'm concerned anyway, anyhow, anywhere, we can get people educated is fine with me.

I am a fisherman and these are the sites I visit. I want to do my job as an AMERICAN that cares about this state and country. Some have said they did not know of Prop 25, others did not get past property tax part. This post has helped the cause already. They will talk with their buddies and hopefully we get a good turn out of pissed people at the polls and start to make a difference.
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JustinD
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by JustinD »

Leave please.......Less spot stealers dotting my areas in "da south". :twisted:
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Phil Burgess
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Phil Burgess »

OOOH OOOH OOOOH ME..... I HAVE MY HAND RAISED.........BREAK OUT THE I.O.U'S......... GOTTA LOVE CALI.........
ILL RIDE TO HELL AND BACK WITH YOU BOYS!!!!!!!!!!
fun4fish
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by fun4fish »

Gary Dobyns wrote:We continue to let idiots run this state, there will be no need for a fishing forum. Many guys are barely getting by now and many aren't that good. Has anyone noticed we've been losing anglers to other states? A lot of them. There is a reason for it. This state sucks and props like #25 will make it WORSE!! I don't give a shi* where or how we make people aware of these things.

If we don't do something this Nov, our fishing sport will get worse. As far as i'm concerned anyway, anyhow, anywhere, we can get people educated is fine with me.

I am a fisherman and these are the sites I visit. I want to do my job as an AMERICAN that cares about this state and country. Some have said they did not know of Prop 25, others did not get past property tax part. This post has helped the cause already. They will talk with their buddies and hopefully we get a good turn out of pissed people at the polls and start to make a difference.
You're missing the point. There are two parties that are tying up the system and they will continue to do so if there isn't legislation to change this.

"Prop. 25 is a simple budget reform that breaks legislative gridlock by allowing a simple majority of legislators to approve the budget—just like in 47 other states. Meanwhile, Prop. 25 preserves the ²/³ vote required to raise taxes.
Late budgets cost taxpayers millions of dollars, hurt schools and services, damage California’s credit rating and give special treatment to interest groups at the expense of ordinary citizens."
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Kelly Ripa
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Kelly Ripa »

I guess I missed the point....and the millions of wasted money caused by a late budget is exactly whose fault? Legislative gridlock so They didn't pass a budget? And my money got wasted.... Then they are outta here! Vote all the incumbents out so the next guy(gal) has to start from scratch on getting their kick backs. Jump'n Jesus if I did my job as poorly as the my duly elected jerkwad I'd of been out on my ear years ago. As a Calif. native I gotta say no on #25. I'm not Tea party ....I make them look like wussie's...... :lol:
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Levy
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Levy »

JustinD wrote:Leave please.......Less spot stealers dotting my areas in "da south". :twisted:
Exactly right!!!
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Brian D.
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Brian D. »

Tin Can wrote:What's the difference between Gary Dobyns and Greg Cornish?

If Greg started this thread it would already be in forum it belongs in. Now move this crap where it belongs, the political forum!!
+100 -- or at least put a bikini picture in the thread.
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Tin Can
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Tin Can »

Brian D. wrote:
Tin Can wrote:What's the difference between Gary Dobyns and Greg Cornish?

If Greg started this thread it would already be in forum it belongs in. Now move this crap where it belongs, the political forum!!
+100 -- or at least put a bikini picture in the thread.
Rules are for us little people. :twisted:
fun4fish
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by fun4fish »

Kelly Ripa wrote:I guess I missed the point....and the millions of wasted money caused by a late budget is exactly whose fault? Legislative gridlock so They didn't pass a budget? And my money got wasted.... Then they are outta here! Vote all the incumbents out so the next guy(gal) has to start from scratch on getting their kick backs. Jump'n Jesus if I did my job as poorly as the my duly elected jerkwad I'd of been out on my ear years ago. As a Calif. native I gotta say no on #25. I'm not Tea party ....I make them look like wussie's...... :lol:
I never said it's anyone's fault however it is a situation we all have to "deal" with. I'm all for voting out the incumbent, but we still need to get legislation through. Have you seen the news? The state of "our" schools,fire,and police depts??

The current system has failed, there's a reason a 1/3 of the country is in the middle with no representation!

All this partisan bickering has blinded people from reading the fine print.
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StockOption
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by StockOption »

If Prop 25 were in effect now we most likely would have seen our legislature approve and pass a budget with more than a $10B shortfall. Yeah that would be OUTSTANDING and significant progress.

And you are wrong Prop 25 is NOT just about simple budget reform by allowing passage of the state budget with a simple majority. Dead wrong.

Proposition 25 Includes Deceptive Wording. Proposition 25's proponents claim that they do not intend to change the vote threshold for taxes, and the title and summary of the initiative prepared by the state states that the initiative retains a two-thirds vote for taxes. However, these statements are not substantiated by the initiative's language.

As written, Proposition 25 allows budget bills and budget trailer bills to be passed by a bare majority vote, by amending Article IV of the Constitution to include section 12(e), which reads: "Notwithstanding any other provision of law or this Constitution, the budget bill and other bills providing for appropriations related to the budget bill may be passed in each house by roll call vote entered in the journal, a majority of the membership concurring…" The "notwithstanding" language trumps other provisions of the California Constitution if a tax provision is included in a bill "providing for appropriations related to the budget bill" – in other words, a major tax increase could be included in a budget-related bill, and could be approved on a bare majority vote. Historically, many major tax increases have been approved as part of budget deals.

Also, Section 12(e) that would be added by Proposition 25 specifically states that "nothing in this subdivision shall affect the vote requirement for appropriations for the public schools…" A court might interpret this to mean that because appropriations for public schools are exempted from the initiative, other provisions, such as Proposition 13, are intentionally trumped by the majority-vote threshold. In any event, the Legislature likely would push the envelope and interpret the language broadly, to the detriment of taxpayers, and costly litigation would be inevitable.


http://www.no25yes26.com/wp-content/upl ... ysisPW.pdf
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offduty
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by offduty »

FinesseKid wrote:
K.C.K. wrote:This Guy has 4 degrees hmmmm !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMgyi57s ... r_embedded#!
Sorry Finessekid I just could not resist just kidding. :D :D :D
Hey I can take the kidding it doesnt bother me.

The personal attacks I simply wont tolerate.

I would prefer just to keep it light hearted. Some just cant do that.

So I can quote that ancient zen proverb which so eloquently states: "DON'T START NONE......WON'T BE NONE"

Hey I saw that episode of Swamp People to, wasn't that the first one?
Ahhhh so refreshing. :-)
fun4fish
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by fun4fish »

StockOption wrote:If Prop 25 were in effect now we most likely would have seen our legislature approve and pass a budget with more than a $10B shortfall. Yeah that would be OUTSTANDING and significant progress.

And you are wrong Prop 25 is NOT just about simple budget reform by allowing passage of the state budget with a simple majority. Dead wrong.

Proposition 25 Includes Deceptive Wording. Proposition 25's proponents claim that they do not intend to change the vote threshold for taxes, and the title and summary of the initiative prepared by the state states that the initiative retains a two-thirds vote for taxes. However, these statements are not substantiated by the initiative's language.

As written, Proposition 25 allows budget bills and budget trailer bills to be passed by a bare majority vote, by amending Article IV of the Constitution to include section 12(e), which reads: "Notwithstanding any other provision of law or this Constitution, the budget bill and other bills providing for appropriations related to the budget bill may be passed in each house by roll call vote entered in the journal, a majority of the membership concurring…" The "notwithstanding" language trumps other provisions of the California Constitution if a tax provision is included in a bill "providing for appropriations related to the budget bill" – in other words, a major tax increase could be included in a budget-related bill, and could be approved on a bare majority vote. Historically, many major tax increases have been approved as part of budget deals.

Also, Section 12(e) that would be added by Proposition 25 specifically states that "nothing in this subdivision shall affect the vote requirement for appropriations for the public schools…" A court might interpret this to mean that because appropriations for public schools are exempted from the initiative, other provisions, such as Proposition 13, are intentionally trumped by the majority-vote threshold. In any event, the Legislature likely would push the envelope and interpret the language broadly, to the detriment of taxpayers, and costly litigation would be inevitable.


http://www.no25yes26.com/wp-content/upl ... ysisPW.pdf
more than likely? :roll:



This morning, a judge removed a sentence from the title of Prop 25 that says it won't affect the supermajority vote for a tax hike, calling that sentence "misleading."
http://blogs.kqed.org/capitalnotes/2010 ... reference/
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Ringer »

Government pensions, $4 billion a year to support illegals and businesses running from the state. Bottom line is California and NY have been bailed out for the last time and after the election the states will all have to cut spending and increase taxes. If our state can pass an 18% sales tax increase for three years to help balance the budget then why should we kick in to help a state that continues with the credit cards like there is no depression? One tax or another until you start cutting the spending. Gloomy future with your leadership.
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I agree with FinesseKid...

Post by Murph »

If we are neighbors and live in the "exact same homes" built in the same year, by the same builder...Why aren't my taxes EXACTLY the same as my neighbors???? Fair and Equal??? Californias' Prop 13 is unfair. You can put a "cap" on the tax dollars to save skyrocketing taxes....but make them EQUAL for everyone. Why should someone pay less for the "exact" property (because he didn't barter a better price or buy it 50 years ago?) ? Sorry, I just don't understand your system. I am an Assessor in Nevada and we have some goofball Lady running for Senator that LOVES your prop 13 and I hope she doesn't get elected. I told Murph, I am retiring if she wins :twisted: . Maybe we can move to Texas???? I wouldn't mind being retired. Hmmm. More time for fishing. Lol. Melanie McBride "Lincoln County Assessor" and Taxpayer (Nevada) :twisted:
It might be lonely at the Top, but it's a bitch, at the Bottom !
CN
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by CN »

Not backing anyone but I think there is no other way to fix our problem here other than run California like a Business. Were in debt and how else could you deal with this situation. Does it help when I pick up my Rod and it says made in China Hell no. Does it help when I sign a Freight bill and the guy can only point to a place to sign Hell no.

It just blow's my mind Gary that these people are in charge yet how did they get there. I will tell you.........................lack of participation plain and simple.

There I said it and going to hit the Forebay in the morning Stripers and Largemouth :D
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Otay Michael
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Re: I agree with FinesseKid...

Post by Otay Michael »

Murph wrote:If we are neighbors and live in the "exact same homes" built in the same year, by the same builder...Why aren't my taxes EXACTLY the same as my neighbors???? Fair and Equal??? Californias' Prop 13 is unfair. You can put a "cap" on the tax dollars to save skyrocketing taxes....but make them EQUAL for everyone. Why should someone pay less for the "exact" property (because he didn't barter a better price or buy it 50 years ago?) ? Sorry, I just don't understand your system. I am an Assessor in Nevada and we have some goofball Lady running for Senator that LOVES your prop 13 and I hope she doesn't get elected. I told Murph, I am retiring if she wins :twisted: . Maybe we can move to Texas???? I wouldn't mind being retired. Hmmm. More time for fishing. Lol. Melanie McBride "Lincoln County Assessor" and Taxpayer (Nevada) :twisted:
Do Texas a favor and stay there! :shock:

You sound like a lady I met in Italy once. She was from here, but loved that country. But she could not stand they weren't into yoga, and health food, and homosexuals were looked down on, yada yada yada. She complained about so much there at the same time. She wanted to change it, but the place was into God and family and the folks still walked in the plazas at night and everyone knew each other. Doors are still left unlocked. Funny, she loved the place and yet she wanted to change it.

That country could do without her. Our country would do best to look to the past, we were a great nation. Crooks got the shaft, now the honest folks get it. Some guy in N.Y. got in trouble for shooting into his grass to scare gang members away- what the heck? A Church just got into trouble for ringing their bells, what the heck?

Time for a change, time to respect honest workers again. Time to get that Arizona sheriff a job in Sacramento, as well as their Governor. I don't own a home, but praise God for prop 13, it saves a lot of folks their *** from the government. Like one guy said, because you got shot in the foot, you're going next door and shooting them in the foot to get even? Get a clue libs!!!

Dobyns, thank you for your service... notice no conservatives have asked for this thread to be moved? What's that mean? Notice some guys don't give a darn, head in the brush pile.
Otay Michael

All I need to get into the money would be the four I usually get along with a 20# kicker.

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mark poulson
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Re: I agree with FinesseKid...

Post by mark poulson »

Why does it take 2000 pages to change the vote for the budget to a simple majority?
One line would do.
What else is hidden in all those pages?
And do I trust the people who wrote them?
NO!
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Andy Giannini
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Re: I agree with FinesseKid...

Post by Andy Giannini »

Myth-Govt. pensions are paid by taxpayers.

Fact-Retirement benefits are paid from Cal Pers pension fund, which is a trust fund that can only be used for payment of member benefits and related expenses.

Historically, almost 75 cents of every dollar paid in pensions come from investment returns, not tax dollars.

I contribute 7% of my monthly earnings and my employer also makes a contribution. The amount paid may vary due to different bargaining agreements.

One other thing I have to add, a common self affirmation when someone is complaining is, "I am a TAXPAYER!"

As if employees of public agencies are somehow exempt and don't pay taxes for some reason, let me assure you we pay taxes and get frustrated as well.

What I have noticed over the years, when things are booming people say "You should quit that lame job of yours, and earn some REAL MONEY!"

When things get tight and slow down, the same guys complain about, "That no good govt. bass turd, driving a state truck, big pension, I hate that guy!"

It cycles.

A.G.

(edited for spelling errors.)
"If you can't win, at LEAST catch the Big Fish!"
Robert F
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Re: I agree with FinesseKid...

Post by Robert F »

mark poulson wrote:Why does it take 2000 pages to change the vote for the budget to a simple majority?
One line would do.
What else is hidden in all those pages?
And do I trust the people who wrote them?
NO!
Buttom line Mark, If we vote in a proposition they don't like they will just drag it through court for years until they find a judge that will gut the voter's will.

If it is political suicide to fight they will point to the voters as the responsible party for any issues that come from it.

If the proposition works they will campaign on it stating they were the one who wrote it and saved us from the other side.
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StockOption
Posts: 1900
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by StockOption »

fun4fish wrote:more than likely? :roll:



This morning, a judge removed a sentence from the title of Prop 25 that says it won't affect the supermajority vote for a tax hike, calling that sentence "misleading."
http://blogs.kqed.org/capitalnotes/2010 ... reference/
Awesome.

I hope the judge reviews this section next:

Reduces the vote requirement for passing the budget, and taxes that are part of the budget, from two-thirds of the Legislature to a bare majority. Also restricts the constitutional right of the public to use the referendum process to reject fees, including tax-like "fees."

Clearly Prop 25 is NOT just about passing the state budget with a simple majority. Thanks for helping make that point crystal clear.
Kurt
FinesseKid
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Re: I agree with FinesseKid...

Post by FinesseKid »

Andy Giannini wrote:Myth-Govt. pensions are paid by taxpayers.

Fact-Retirement benefits are paid from Cal Pers pension fund, which is a trust fund that can only be used for payment of member benefits and related expenses.

Historically, almost 75 cents of every dollar paid in pensions come from investment returns, not tax dollars.

I contribute 7% of my monthly earnings and my employer also makes a contribution. The amount paid may vary due to different bargaining agreements.

One other thing I have to add, a common self affirmation when someone is complaining is, "I am a TAXPAYER!"

As if employees of public agencies are somehow exempt and don't pay taxes for some reason, let me assure you we pay taxes and get frustrated as well.

What I have noticed over the years, when things are booming people say "You should quit that lame job of yours, and earn some REAL MONEY!"

When things get tight and slow down, the same guys complain about, "That no good govt. bass turd, driving a state truck, big pension, I hate that guy!"

It cycles.

A.G.

(edited for spelling errors.)
+1
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whatabunchofidiots
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by whatabunchofidiots »

Jeff C. I'm just curious why you would say something to Dobyns about his post being put on the fishing forum not the politics forum.

Not trying to say anything negitive about biteme. He had a good question. I could care less what forum someone post on.
But I didn't see you say anything about biteme post about shooting, should be on the off topic forum. Kinda curious what your motive was.
No disrespect
that voted for our so called leader
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K.C.K.
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The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by K.C.K. »

Calpers Bailout

“You could get return without much risk -- that was the seduction -- and it wasn’t just Calpers that acted on that belief; it was public sector plans around the country,â€
For the Rich there is therapy, for the rest of us there is fishing
Later K.C.
Ringer
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Re: The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by Ringer »

Sorry but there is no way you fully paid for all of your government pensions. Either the fund was stolen by politicians or you are wrong. I read that the unfunded liability for state pensions is astronomical and will bankrupt the state soon. I will look it up but the article had a huge deficit number for pensions in California.
Ringer
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Re: The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by Ringer »

Here is the first article that popped up and it is just for teachers. I think you are in the hole around a trillion dollars with all state pensions. This was Business Week.

"found that California had the largest unfunded teacher pension liability at almost $100 billion"
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K.C.K.
Posts: 27
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Re: The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by K.C.K. »

Do you notice the ??? in my title I was being sarcastic,
Read the article I posted.... gives the whole history.
This state is financially and morally Bankrupt...
For the Rich there is therapy, for the rest of us there is fishing
Later K.C.
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Andy Giannini
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Re: The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by Andy Giannini »

I may have to research more, but the arguement that Cal Pers members do not contribute to their own pension is false.

And if taxpayers contribute to Cal Pers, I would contend that Cal Pers members are also taxpayers contributing to that fund.

I would say that the vast majority of Californians benefit from those who enter public service whether the realize it or recognize it.

The idea that everything is a big public giveaway, sounds like fun but I am not convinced.

And who is to fault? The person who went to work for the state or other local entity looking at the potential pension and acting in their own self best interest? Not any different than the private sector, and unions, or the guy earlier that lost his pension or two.

Cal Pers may go belly up, and that is a risk members take. No different than S.S. but I really don't have an option there, I am paying it even though it may not be there.

So should I bitch at all you bastards collecting SS when I likely won't see dollar one?

And if you want to get into private sector bailouts, lets hit upon GM and big auto makers. Want to talk banks?

Fun topic,

A.G.
Last edited by Andy Giannini on Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If you can't win, at LEAST catch the Big Fish!"
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K.C.K.
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Re: The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by K.C.K. »

calpers can not go bankrupt it has to be funded by law. the taxpayer fits the bill.
The state has to go BK to get a renegotiation in calpers.. by the looks of it it will happen sooner than later hopefully sooner..
For the Rich there is therapy, for the rest of us there is fishing
Later K.C.
Greg_Cornish
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Greg_Cornish »

FinesseKid wrote: I hope they overturn it and force them to pay what I am paying. It will definitely secure my meager paycheck as an educator.
I'm not a teacher, I'm a retired quadriplegic. I would be forced out of mine.

I bought it based on my income and knowing the taxes. Didn't anyone tell you what the taxes would be before you bought it?
"The trouble with quotes on the Internet, is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln
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Andy Giannini
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Re: The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by Andy Giannini »

Then it sounds like a more secure pension plan.

Did you sign up for it, or take a public agency job?

A.G.
"If you can't win, at LEAST catch the Big Fish!"
Greg_Cornish
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Re: This is not directly fishing related but PISSES me off!

Post by Greg_Cornish »

Tin Can wrote:What's the difference between Gary Dobyns and Greg Cornish?
I can fish! :D
"The trouble with quotes on the Internet, is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln
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offduty
Posts: 668
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Re: The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by offduty »

I joined Cal Fire because I wanted to be a firefighter period. It took me 7 years before I got hired full time. After talking to my captain if I want 90% of my pay upon retirement I need to work 33 years. I pay in to my own retirement as does the department. Cool I can get 90% @ 71, got a late start. I think if you are going to judge state pensions you need to look at the agency that is worked for. We do not have the same deal as CHP and different agencies are different. We are taking a pay cut and are paying more in to are pensions.
Andy Giannini wrote:I may have to research more, but the arguement that Cal Pers members do not contribute to their own pension is false.

And if taxpayers contribute to Cal Pers, I would contend that Cal Pers members are also taxpayers contributing to that fund.

I would say that the vast majority of Californians benefit from those who enter public service whether the realize it or recognize it.

The idea that everything is a big public giveaway, sounds like fun but I am not convinced.

And who is to fault? The person who went to work for the state or other local entity looking at the potential pension and acting in their own self best interest? Not any different than the private sector, and unions, or the guy earlier that lost his pension or two.

Cal Pers may go belly up, and that is a risk members take. No different than S.S. but I really don't have an option there, I am paying it even though it may not be there.

So should I bitch at all you bastards collecting SS when I likely won't see dollar one?

And if you want to get into private sector bailouts, lets hit upon GM and big auto makers. Want to talk banks?

Fun topic,

A.G.
FinesseKid
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Re: The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by FinesseKid »

As teachers, we pay into CalSTRS, which is a slightly different program than CalPRS. Also, I have a 403B setup with my accountant which is similar to a seperate 401k but with different tax requirements and flexibility.

Although Im not an expert on either, I do know that I contribute about 700 per month between the two.
"I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

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jcruz
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Re: The taxpayer pay nothing into Cal pers Really????

Post by jcruz »

Proposition 25 Includes Deceptive Wording. Proposition 25's proponents claim that they do not intend to change the vote threshold for taxes, and the title and summary of the initiative prepared by the state states that the initiative retains a two-thirds vote for taxes. However, these statements are not substantiated by the initiative's language.

As written, Proposition 25 allows budget bills and budget trailer bills to be passed by a bare majority vote, by amending Article IV of the Constitution to include section 12(e), which reads: "Notwithstanding any other provision of law or this Constitution, the budget bill and other bills providing for appropriations related to the budget bill may be passed in each house by roll call vote entered in the journal, a majority of the membership concurring…" The "notwithstanding" language trumps other provisions of the California Constitution if a tax provision is included in a bill "providing for appropriations related to the budget bill" – in other words, a major tax increase could be included in a budget-related bill, and could be approved on a bare majority vote. Historically, many major tax increases have been approved as part of budget deals.

Also, Section 12(e) that would be added by Proposition 25 specifically states that "nothing in this subdivision shall affect the vote requirement for appropriations for the public schools…" A court might interpret this to mean that because appropriations for public schools are exempted from the initiative, other provisions, such as Proposition 13, are intentionally trumped by the majority-vote threshold. In any event, the Legislature likely would push the envelope and interpret the language broadly, to the detriment of taxpayers, and costly litigation would be inevitable.

http://www.no25yes26.com/wp-content/upl ... ysisPW.pdf
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