Braid on spinning reels

[Rbass519]

I have been experimenting with braid and a fluorocarbon leader. The uni to uni seems to be ok. My question is... Is it normal to have to tie a whole new leader when you snag up? When I snag up and have to break off my uni to uni breaks before my palomar to my hook breaks. Is that just the way it goes? I'm confident all of my knots are good.

[cib11b]

Yes it is. Those knots suck imo. I use a very small swivel that goes through the eyes very easily and tie a polomar.

[GregD]

I've been using the braid to flouro leader combo on my spinning rods for a while. I also had the problem with the uni/uni knot breaking before the knot at my lure when I hung up.

I was about ready to quit using the braid/flouro combo when I saw a post on this site recomending the albright knot. I've been tying that one ever since and now I rarely break off at the leader.

[BuckSnort]

I have had better luck lately with the blood knot ....seems stronger to me than the double uni ..

[Leon Pugh]

I have never broken a all bright knot. Tip: get a couple of those metel spring loaded paper clips to use as extra hands to help tie the allbright perfectly. Depending on what I am doing I sometimes will use a 30 ft leader. I can use one leader all weekend.

[BIG L]

The albright is the way to go, takes time tie but it never breaks at the knot. If you want to do some experimenting look at animated knots by grog. It has a break done of a lot of knots step by step.

[Robert F]

Fact is until you guys quit arguing over which obscure connection knot to use and change to the swivel you will still be plagued with one of the biggest problems. Line twist.

Braid lasts a long time. When I was using straight Flouro I needed another job just to cover my line expenses. One tournament and the next practice would be the lifespan of a spool fill. The swivel keeps the inevitable line twist away from the braid. And yes it too happens to braid. Get the tiny Spro swivels and tie two palomars. Very strong and you do not use as much Flouro. I use about 5 foot leaders and keep the swivel outside the tip. The advantage of the tiny swivel is not to get it through the tip. It is to keep the connection neutrally buoyant.

[Rbass519]

Thanks for all of the input.

[Leon Pugh]

I can't seem to get the swivel to pass through my rod guides
Line twist has never been problem for me, put it on the reel the proper way and it does not twist. Also you have to pay attention to how you rig your baits on the hook to make sure they are not spinning on retrieve.

[Robert F]

Without getting in to too much detail there are certain techniques that you can not prevent from twisting your line. Besides the fact that when I fish as a Co-angler I can have a spinning reel in my hand for as many hours in a week as some will in a year.

[Rbass519]

Animated knots by grog is a really helpful sight. Thank you.

[BuckSnort]

Fact is until you guys quit arguing over which obscure connection knot to use and change to the swivel you will still be plagued with one of the biggest problems. Line twist.

Braid lasts a long time. When I was using straight Flouro I needed another job just to cover my line expenses. One tournament and the next practice would be the lifespan of a spool fill. The swivel keeps the inevitable line twist away from the braid. And yes it too happens to braid. Get the tiny Spro swivels and tie two palomars. Very strong and you do not use as much Flouro. I use about 5 foot leaders and keep the swivel outside the tip. The advantage of the tiny swivel is not to get it through the tip. It is to keep the connection neutrally buoyant.

I tried the small swivel.. I didnt like the sound it made going through the guides while casting... I then tried a shorter leader and kept the swivel out of the guides like you said...I had a hard time casting and it was no where close to accurate...I ended up going back to a direct tie with my leaders...Twist is there but very manageable...

[brambo0311]

If you have to run braid with a flouroleader power pro ace is the best system. It's the hollow core stuff. I pre tie a bunch of flouro leaders and put a loop in the hollow braid by threading it back into itself. I use a loop to loop connection and no knots, you can't feel it though the guides and it connection is near 100% strength so if you break off, it's at the hook.

Just so we are clear, I just run straight flouro now. Those leaders take about 40 min to pre tie each. Just isn't worth the time.

[Rbass519]

10-4 Brambo. Thanks.

[Andrew Jackson]

I read an article in the WON Bass supplement from Rich Tauber about this same subject a few months ago. I implemented the braid and fluorocarbon set up and use the same line to line knot I use when attaching mono to mono (forgot the damn name of it) and it has not broken at the connection once. I watched some of those how to videos and some people spend alot of time tying that combo together. Different strokes for different folks I guess. But I am amazed at the difference in "feeling" stuff on the bottom and those subtle pick-ups.

[GKramer]

This is no criticism, but in my interview with Brent Ehrler (who uses no swivel) he says once he got the double Uni down--and he practiced until he could do it virtually blind-folded so he could be quick and sure, even in the wind--he never broke the uni. His belief, if that knot breaks, it's human error. Despite that testimony, I still tie a Seaguar because it's way faster. However, I admit, I rarely use heavier than 12-pound braid.

As for the "twist"--way more psychological than physical to me. Heck, the leader doesn't twist. But you can always do the Midwest finesse deal. Unwrap to another spool (or soda bottle) and then to a second one, and then spool the line back on the original reel. In other words, just swap ends. Those guys never seem to throw line away and they fish multiple days a week late spring to the end of fall.

Best thing, just do what you like. The fish really don't care.

[Andrew Jackson]

That's who Tauber "taught the old dog a new trick"

[Rbass519]

GKramer- What prompted my question is...I know, without a doubt, when I get a snag somethin's gotta give. I just started playing with this braid to fluoro. I'm confident my knots are good. I say I'm confident because since I switched I have landed a 6lb spot and several 4-4.5 pound spots. (my leader is 5lb sunline).
I even snapped a hook in half on a snag yesterday before my line would break! That's what let me know the knots were tied right.
What I Do not Know is...(That's why the question) Is there something I could tie that's STRONGER/BETTER than the double uni? So my leader would break at the palomar instead of the braid.
I really apprecite this conversation. This is a tremendous help.

[Rbass519]

GKramer-Do you know what knot Brent ties to the hook?

[GKramer]

Double-Uni.

[GKramer]

RBass: Do you tie an 8-5 or 8-6? Eight wraps on the braid loop and 5 or 6 on the fluoro. I'm not saying your knot is bad, I'm just passing on an opinion. However, some fluoros are tougher than others, that may be a factor.

I use that "mono to flouro" Seaguar for speed and most of the time, it breaks at the hook, not the splice. But depending on the fishing method, the splice may be catching more abuse than the hook knot, and abrasion could contribute to the failures.

And while I'm a saltwater wimp, I've landed 76-pound tuna on the Seaguar knot, and my bellybutton was pinned to the rail. But some guys don't like it in freshwater because it sometimes catches on the guides if you don't trim the tags well, especially as you go up in pound test.

[Rbass519]

Ok, Thank you. I was doing six wraps on each side. What I meant was, if he (Brent) tied on a darter head, Which knot did he use? Was it a palomar?

[GKramer]

I'll ask him. But any of the "90 percent" knots like Palomar, SD jam knot, heck, double chicken foot, would all put the same stress on the splice. If I can catch him today, I'll post in this thread.

[PapaJohn454]

I have been using the Albright knot to tie Flouro leader to braid and have never had any trouble with it.

http://www.animatedknots.com/albright/index.php

[PapaJohn454]

I have been using the Albright knot to tie Flouro leader to braid and have never had any trouble with it.

http://www.animatedknots.com/albright/index.php

Here is what they say about it:

More details about the The Albright Knot

The Albright Knot
Uses: The Albright Knot is a versatile knot that has a wide range of uses. It is only moderately easy to tie but it is suitable for joining different types of fishing line, e.g., Monofilament to Braided, or Braided to Wire.

It is also useful when joining monofilaments with markedly different diameters. It is commonly used to join the fly line to the backing line but can be used whenever you wish to join two fishing lines together.

Tying it: The initial loop is made in the larger line. It is important to wind the loops neatly round this loop. It helps to hold the loops under your fingers as you wind the line on.

Advantages: The Albright is well suited to slide readily through the guides when a fish pulls out enough line to reach your backing. Some anglers coat the knot with a rubber based cement to make it even smoother and more secure.

[Chris N]

I love the double uni- I fish 8 lb. powerpro on my spinning reels and tie either 6 pound mono or 5 lb. flouro leaders for the most part, the double uni has never let me down. With the thin 8 lb. braid, I've had great luck with 6-6, still a tiny knot that won't slip. Leader always breaks first, usually a little wear from casting around cover and stuff. Lots of times the Palomar will break if the double line on the hook eye are crossed, tough to see with thin diameter lines. I only tie the Palomar on a drop shot, but the single uni works good for that too.

[obsessed fisherman]

Double uni works for me. Three loops only each side. Make sure to wet the knot, or even better use a little chap stick/lip balm before pulling knot tight.

[Rbass519]

Wow! That Albright knot is a booger to tie! I tried about ten times. I think Mr. Albright is an octopus! Lol

[aercuddy]

Without touching your floro or mono, try a drop of superglue on your braid with the uni to uni, as long as your drag is set properly don't think your gonna get spooled, confidence goes a long way in a knot.

[GKramer]

Hey RBass: Brent uses a Palomar. A more correct quote from him is, "I've never broken a fish off at the double uni." Occasionally, in a snag, the splice breaks. He feels the cause may be the fluoro cutting the braid. And of course, he added, "The splice is never as strong as any line without a splice."

gk

www.kramergonefishing.com

[Rbass519]

Thank you for all of your help.

[ugly stick]

Look at the Blood knot or Alberto knot. Not the albright. Ive had the albright slip many times. The ALBERTO knot is a modified albright. The alberto is pretty much indestructible. almost all my rods are spooled with braid with some kind of leader and ive NEVER had those 2 knots fail. i trust them 100%. On the alberto ill add a bit of super glue to the knot. No need to just a confidence thing. Im VERY impressed with these knots. Give these a try and ill think youll be happy.

Heres how i tie the blood knot
http://tacticalbassin.com/133/

ALBERTO knot
http://www.stripersonline.com/Pages/Art ... knot.shtml

[Rbass519]

Thank you.