heard a rumor from the AC pro/am delta tourney?

[fish_food]

So Jeff, when you and Mark walked back after you weighed your fish...I asked how many you guys weighed. Shortly thereafter Mark left, and I confronted you about the 6th bass, and gave you the opportunity to DQ yourself before I filed a protest for rule violation.

Did you already DQ yourself before you got back to the boat? You didn't mention anything at the time about self DQ. In fact, you didn't say much at all.

Just asking for clarity.

Long,

I was told you got in our boat? We had 6 fish. We DQ'd ourselves. I didn't say much to you because I didn't owe you an explanation and you were rude as hell to me. We did the right thing so just let it go already let's move on keep fishing. I bet this wont be the last time someone has 6 fish in their boat.

This is get'n good. I love a good catfight--you two lovebirds should get a room!

[fun4fish]

something smells very fishy

[Levy]

Yes very fishy.

Long I commend you for getting on here and stating the facts as you know them.

So the gorilla in the room is asking, what if Long had not witnessed what he did?????

Did the weighmaster/MC announce when the fish were being weighed that Mark was DQ'ed and the weight's would not count??

[bassaholic58]

sorry to hear you got so excited about your catch and flat out WIN before the way in ! I have done it and so does everybody else you get so fired up and ??? **** it justs HAPPENDS !! a extra fish from the fish GODS but the fact is you were DQ'D the second you put the 6 fish in the same live well or not a RULE is a RULE like a LAW is a LAW ! What would have HAPPEND if DFG would have stopped you and during there safty check and fish inspection found a 6th fish violation and issued you a ticket! (Believe me they DO and WILL just go to lake mead I got one!) so the fact is IT IS A DQ ABLE AND CITEABLE OFFENSE ANYWAY YOU LOOK AT IT!!! you just missed out on the ticket part$$$$ LOL Anyway it's just my 2cents

[bigbass111]

Bill Hutcheson,

What........

I did read the posts, you must not have...

Your first post stated that Mark D'qd himself and there was no issue. In fact he apperantly d'qd himself and just weighed his fish for fun, correct.

Then, correct me if I am wrong but didn't BILL COOK then post saying he D'qd him, call me if you have question's.

So who really d'qd him, the staff like you say or him like you say???? Did he in fact truly dq himself before bagging his fish or what...

Yes, alot of people mess up and bring 6 fish in and it will still happen time to time. But its how its handled that everyone wants to know. I see 3 differant stories and other anglers claiming a possible clean up by the staff..

Just the facts man, thats it.

[2ndsuks]

FACT--they had 6 fish

FACT--They took 5 fish to the scales to see what weight they would have had

FACT--They admitted they had 6 fish in the well, turning themselves in

FACT--The TD made the call as a DQ

What coverup//You are trying to make something out of nothing..

mac

+1

No accusations, just trying to clarify some rumors .

Ya like a woman in a hair salon.

Bottom line is, rules are rules, Mark had six in the well and DQed himself for it.
When Long witnessed the six fish he also did the right thing, end of story!

[DAN]

Well, having known Jeff since he was in High School I can say this, If for some reason the pro had not DQ'd them he would of. This is a young man who love and respects the sport.

Jeff is one of those guys that wouldn't sleep at night. Ya they made a mistake, however it was handled they DQ'd themselves. this is not something he would of let go, even though it met giving up a lead going into day 3. Some of the best anglers in the world make mistakes..... I agree with mac...

[bryanmc]

It's all water under the bridge now, but Mark probably shouldn't have taken any fish to the scales if he was going to DQ himself. I know if it was me, I'd just tell the guy next to me "watch this" as I dropped them over the side one by one.

Sure would have saved a whole bunch of "who did what" second guessing...

[bigbass111]

FACT--they had 6 fish

FACT--They took 5 fish to the scales to see what weight they would have had

FACT--They admitted they had 6 fish in the well, turning themselves in

FACT--The TD made the call as a DQ

What coverup//You are trying to make something out of nothing..

mac




Sounds good to me....Straight forward

The fish being weighed in put me off course...I would have never weighed in...I really would not have wanted to know what my weight was.

[Andrew Jackson]

Has happened to me as well, a couple of times. One time I weighed my fish and let it be. That stayed with me for a long, long time. Then again on the Delta in a Stren event. Had a real nice bag 19lbs, for me, weighed em and then told them about the infraction.
Personally I think it is one dumb *** rule. You can't weigh the damn thing in so what is it hurting. Actually I have broke that rule more times now that I think about it. I won't throw dead fish over the boat so I keep them. Waste of our resource.

[bassbooger]

Why would an angler weigh in 5 fish knowing there was a sixth in the well and then DQ himself? What would be the point weighing in? Such actions give reason to suspicion and question motive.

[Mark Hiser]

I knew you wouldn't be able to stay out of it.

Mark

[Andrew Jackson]

The same reason Mark did. If it was a small weight probably would not have weighed it. What motives are yours to beat this dead horse, detective booger?

[fish_food]

Why would an angler weigh in 5 fish knowing there was a sixth in the well and then DQ himself? What would be the point weighing in? Such actions give reason to suspicion and question motive.

If he outright owns the organization, does he really need to give a reason? He should have just changed the bag to a six fish limit right on the spot...

[ash]

sorry to hear you got so excited about your catch and flat out WIN before the way in ! I have done it and so does everybody else you get so fired up and ??? **** it justs HAPPENDS !! a extra fish from the fish GODS but the fact is you were DQ'D the second you put the 6 fish in the same live well or not a RULE is a RULE like a LAW is a LAW ! What would have HAPPEND if DFG would have stopped you and during there safty check and fish inspection found a 6th fish violation and issued you a ticket! (Believe me they DO and WILL just go to lake mead I got one!) so the fact is IT IS A DQ ABLE AND CITEABLE OFFENSE ANYWAY YOU LOOK AT IT!!! you just missed out on the ticket part$$$$ LOL Anyway it's just my 2cents

DFG bag limit for two license holders is 10 fish, no ticket no fine for a 6 fish possession with two licensed anglers. (this is why the Hook and WON can have a 7 fish limit for two anglers.

so the whole citable argument is a mute point

[Leon Pugh]

I would be willing to bet that during a tournament season every angler does something comparable in some way that if we nit picked it would be SUBJECT TO D.Q. Maybe 6 mph in a five. Life jacket off before the boat is on the trailer? The rules say SUBJECT TO D.Q. This should not have been a D.Q in my eyes, there was no advantage to the angler. I would rather see a penalty or fines for for things that do not give the angler an advantage. Works in other sports.

[Mike]

I'm surprised this thread is even still here. He does own this site too!

[Schneider Fishing]

I can't believe this thread is still going on.

[pitchin1]

The man had the biggest bag of the three day event. He wanted them weighed and DQ'd himself.. Verified by the directors and the AM.

Haters? No doubt about it... People with agendas? No doubt about it...

It's obvious to anyone with an IQ higher than a ground squirrel.

[Long Nguyen]

Long,

I was told you got in our boat? We had 6 fish. We DQ'd ourselves. I didn't say much to you because I didn't owe you an explanation and you were rude as hell to me. We did the right thing so just let it go already let's move on keep fishing. I bet this wont be the last time someone has 6 fish in their boat.

Jeff, believe me, I didn't want to be dragged into this public scene. Mark got me involved when he mentioned my name in the original thread. The reality is, what I saw that day and what is being written in this thread are two different things and it bothers the snot out of me. So for those wondering what the "agenda" is, it's the truth of what really happened and the motives of a potential cheating incident.

Yes, I hoped on the boat to verify that there was a 6th fish. I did that with two witnesses and declared to them my actions.

I'm ready to let it go once the truth is straight. I gave you both the chance to clear your name with a self DQ rather than a protest and this is what has transpired since. It's too late to go back. I have a dog in this fight and what I know is the truth.

Sure, you owe me an explanation. Me and the other 106 other anglers that paid our money that day. What's to say my actions and observations didn't prevent a cheating incident for you and Mark? As the last place money finishers, I'm sure the 10th place AM and the 10th place Pro are extremely happy I came forth.

Did you already DQ yourself before you got back to the boat? You didn't mention anything at the time about self DQ. In fact, you didn't say much at all.

Let's put this to bed. You danced around my original question, which I'm questioning when the actual DQ took place.

From my view, it happened at the 2nd trip to the scales. Had it been the 1st trip, not one mention of the HUGE sack weighed in was a DQ...no time on the mic for Mark, a high profile angler fishing his own derby. Not once did Cook use it as a PR moment to prove how everyone abides by the same rules fishing these events. Nothing was brought up because nothing was said. Curious what was written on the weigh slip myself....

From my point of view, I'm sure anyone reading can draw their own conclusions as to what really happened and how my actions (and how I have to defend my correct actions on a public forum) prevented a potential cheating incident.

Enough said.

[pitchin1]

Did you already DQ yourself before you got back to the boat? You didn't mention anything at the time about self DQ. In fact, you didn't say much at all.

You're making pretty bold statements when it's clear you don't know the facts or you wouldn't be asking questions. Those same questions were already answered if you only read.

By the way entering another competitors boat for any reason without permission is the very least unsportsman like conduct. Did you DQ yourself? Do it with the right people the penalty is much higher than that. You should have got an official if you had issues.

[Long Nguyen]

By the way entering another competitors boat for any reason without permission is the very least unsportsman like conduct. Did you DQ yourself? Do it with the right people the penalty is much higher than that. You should have got an official if you had issues.

No, I did not DQ myself. Your point is made and I think it's valid about getting an official. There were two other anglers there, I stated my intentions.

Twist it as you may. I know I did the right thing.

[Levy]

Long, thanks for having the gut's to post the truth!!!

[bassbooger]

The same reason Mark did. If it was a small weight probably would not have weighed it. What motives are yours to beat this dead horse, detective booger?

No motives Mr. Jackson, but you are quick to speculate what he did and what he probably would not have done.

[Andrew Jackson]

Yes, I spec as he told the truth, why wouldn't anyone. And who else is "quick to spec" to the negative side? F it, hang him before trial. Everyone who wasn't there is right and Mark and his co angler both liars. Whatever....................time to go.

[flipit]

Not wanting to get involved in who DQ's who when.(I wasnt there)

But as far as the rule. I seem to recall that in a BASS event this happened. The rule there is the angler has to have the TD cull out the 6th fish, and as a penalty it is the largest fish that is culled out. Interested why local circuits dont use a rule like this instead of a DQ?

[Toad]

Those woh live in glass houses should not throw stones! Check yourself!

[Brian Linehan]

How about them Raiders??? lol

[Toad]

How many guys on here have ever, lets say gone faster than the lake speed limit, or ran into a cove 20 feet passed the buoys before coming off of plane, but yet still weighed their fish at weigh in. Anyone ever do one of these things and come in with 25lbs and DQ themselves.

Like I said previously: Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones!

[Cooch]

I think getting DQed because you forgot an extra fish in the livewell is stupid. There is no way to gain an advantage by this because you would have thrown the smallest fish out anyway.


Why not just make it a penalty instead of disqualification.

It's no more dumb 2nd, than the rules that states you must have yer life vest on and kill switch attached any time the big motor is running. How many times during practice, or a tournament, after yer fishing period is done, you tie up the boat, take yer vest off and go git yer trailer, only to hop in the boat and fail to attach both the kill switch and vest to your body, and you idle yer boat a couple 100 feet to put it on the trailer? The same could be true for grabbing a beer after to you already weighed in, then hop in yer boat to load it on the trailer. How many times do ya see guys sneek out during blast off, and one or both lights are not illuminated? Guys HAVE indeed been DQ'd or assesed accordingly for these, yet it has no bearing on how they caught/catch their fish during tournament hours.

Rules are rules, no matter what we as individuals think of them, we our bound to obey them when we fish in the competative events. If not, we must accept and suffer the consequences of our actions.

I'm surprised this thread is even still here. He does own this site too!

And Mike, the reason this thread is still here, is because of the valuable content it contains and, it has been a very civil discussion. It brings forth issues with tournament rules that some don't understand, it has also brought about some interesting discussion in regards to a situation that took place in that AC event. You have two parties, who believe they know the truth and are simpley stating their positions with out any uncivilized attacks. It has nothing to do with whether Mark Mendez or Tony Stoltz, is or is not the owner of WB.COM, And unless yer a party to the lawyers of the Corporation and have specific knowledge about whether Mark or Tony own WB.COM, your second statement is inaccurate and irrelevent.

So from a Moderators viewpoint, and the guidelines layed out for us to follow, this post remains, and the individual readers can choose to take from it what they feel is of value to themselves.

[DanIsaac]

man I tried to stay out of this one......but a rule is a rule. It is pretty simple, and one may or may not agree with it. Fact remains, break any rule suffer the consequences regardless.

However, that said, I don't think Gary was saying "don't follow it", just rendering his opinion on whether or not is a rule that is needed?

My personal opinion is NO, not until you come in for check-in.

While your fishing I agree throwing fish as far as you can from the boat is extremely counter productive with regards to the resource, especially since we have these 50K+ boats and modern livewells.

Keep the NO CULLING a dead fish, and NO more than 5 at the line.

Once you check in and cross that line with more than 5 though it should be a done deal DQ'd.

My .02

Dan

[Jeff Huth]

Gary,
I'm as suprised as you that the rule change that we worked so hard to change with Mike Kennedy and WON Bass, has been reversed. Look guys, it wasn't rocket science. Won Bass's rule at the time in our Pro/Am Circuit was after you put 5 fish in the boat, and upon catching your 6th fish, you had to stop fishing, Pro and Co, . As Gary stated, we both were guilty of breaking that rule, along with many anglers that we know, so we worked hard to get it changed. It was changed to read (basically)no more than 10, which met DFG's in possession rule, along with no more than 5 inside the check in buoy. This enable the anglers to cull and fish, allowed you to not release on top of a hot school of fish, and it was all legal within DFG rules. I feel, and obviously Gary is in agreement, that it in no way should it be a rules violation, to have onboard, in a shared weight tournament, between 5 and 10 fish as long as you are not within the check in buoy . I feel that Mark did the stand up thing, by disqualifing himself, although I feel the rule is a BAD rule ,it's still a rule. As far as Mark not fishing his own circuit, I think thats B.S., if you think along those lines maybe you should not allow advisory staff to fish, or family of staff to fish, should Tiger Woods be NOT allowed to golf his own benifit tourney ?I feel if he is a paying AC angler, and NOT making dicisions at the event, he should be allowed to fish. Tough break there Mark, at least you didn't go all "Andrews Limit" and weigh 6 ! Sorry mike, had to do it !

[Ricky-S]

You have to love when people say the Truth. Perception is a person's reality it is not THE reality. You can have 10 people see the same thing and get 10 different versions of what happened.

The Truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

This was/is a learning experience.

Things happen in tournaments and not everyone is out to pull a quick one.

[Vern]

I worked for Mark for fiver years, and in all that time the one thing he demanded was that the rules were inforced the same all the time know matter who it was. Last year at the TOC Mark and Myself had to DQ a Anglers Choice Staff Member that DQ took this person out of a check. Mark also demanded that if a director, staff member, or any AC employee fished they paid a full entry. Know one has a problem if they do bad but let them get a check and some one will always cry.
How many of at some time or other has made the mistake that he did? How many of us went to the director and confessed up ? If you did the right thing that he did would you want a post like this about you on Western Bass? I do not think so. So just because it was Mark you all got to jumb in. Just remember the next time you fish a Anglers Choice tourament and get a check or win a boat Who made it possible. Vern

[deltasleeper]

This might help. Did anyone hear them say at the scales that he had already DQ himself, or did anyone hear him say on the way to the scales or on the way back that he DQ himself? I think if a witness besides his staff would help clarify this, it would help get rid of some doubt. Or did anyone besides his staff, witness what happened at the scales? Inquiring minds would like to know.

[Toad]

Why?

[sTony]

This might help. Did anyone hear them say at the scales that he had already DQ himself, or did anyone hear him say on the way to the scales or on the way back that he DQ himself? I think if a witness besides his staff would help clarify this, it would help get rid of some doubt. Or did anyone besides his staff, witness what happened at the scales? Inquiring minds would like to know.

This is what transpired at the scales on Saturday September 11, 2010 at Russo’s Marina on Bethel Island during the USAC Delta ProAm Tournament.

I was working the event as a part of the staff. My job was ‘staff photographer’ for the three days of the tournament, so I was pretty much right in on top of things and as close to the competitors and the MC as one could be.

Mark and his Am came to the scales carrying multiple bags. They weighed in five fish for, what the scales determined to be, over 25 pounds and what I thought Bill Cook said was the heaviest weight of the tournament to that point. Photos were taken; the crowd was uproarious and so on. Both anglers were given weigh slips and went back to the marina where the fish were to be given to the folks from BBAC at the release boat.

Five to ten minutes later Mark returned to the scales. Bill Cook was weighing in a limit with another pro at the time. Mark came around us and approached Bill Hutcheson. He told Bill that he had a sixth fish in his livewell. Bill kind of paused and looked at him and Bill Cook came over and joined them. Both Bill’s looked at Mark and told him that they were disappointed for him but that he knew what they had to do and his weight for the day was then DQ’d.

A couple of minutes later, Long Ngyuen also re-approached the scales, looking for Mark, and was told that Mark Mendez had talked to them and had DQ’d himself.

sTony

[Levy]

This might help. Did anyone hear them say at the scales that he had already DQ himself, or did anyone hear him say on the way to the scales or on the way back that he DQ himself? I think if a witness besides his staff would help clarify this, it would help get rid of some doubt. Or did anyone besides his staff, witness what happened at the scales? Inquiring minds would like to know.

This is what transpired at the scales on Saturday September 11, 2010 at Russo’s Marina on Bethel Island during the USAC Delta ProAm Tournament.

I was working the event as a part of the staff. My job was ‘staff photographer’ for the three days of the tournament, so I was pretty much right in on top of things and as close to the competitors and the MC as one could be.

Mark and his Am came to the scales carrying multiple bags. They weighed in five fish for, what the scales determined to be, over 25 pounds and what I thought Bill Cook said was the heaviest weight of the tournament to that point. Photos were taken; the crowd was uproarious and so on. Both anglers were given weigh slips and went back to the marina where the fish were to be given to the folks from BBAC at the release boat.

Five to ten minutes later Mark returned to the scales. Bill Cook was weighing in a limit with another pro at the time. Mark came around us and approached Bill Hutcheson. He told Bill that he had a sixth fish in his livewell. Bill kind of paused and looked at him and Bill Cook came over and joined them. Both Bill’s looked at Mark and told him that they were disappointed for him but that he knew what they had to do and his weight for the day was then DQ’d.

A couple of minutes later, Long Ngyuen also re-approached the scales, looking for Mark, and was told that Mark Mendez had talked to them and had DQ’d himself.

sTony

Wow, clearly he was hoping to get away with this. Long way to step up and prevent this unethical person from cheating!!! I am sure his only disappointment was getting caught.

Obviously his fishing ethics match his extremly poor business ethics.

[Gary Dobyns]

[quote"]And Mike, the reason this thread is still here, is because of the valuable content it contains
[/quote]

Cooch, you have fu**ing got to be kidding me on this statement

This horse has been ridden into the ground, butchered, ate, and the bones turned to DUST!!

Put everyone out of their misery and kill this bastard

[fun4fish]

Five to ten minutes later Mark returned to the scales. Bill Cook was weighing in a limit with another pro at the time. Mark came around us and approached Bill Hutcheson. He told Bill that he had a sixth fish in his livewell. Bill kind of paused and looked at him and Bill Cook came over and joined them. Both Bill’s looked at Mark and told him that they were disappointed for him but that he knew what they had to do and his weight for the day was then DQ’d.

A couple of minutes later, Long Ngyuen also re-approached the scales, looking for Mark, and was told that Mark Mendez had talked to them and had DQ’d himself.

sTony

I've heard this guy owns half the west coast. Does anyone know what he owns?

[stickbait]

Seems pretty simple to me..


If he honestly did not see the 6th fish in the well...and did not know it was there till Long told him which could have happened.

Lots of big fish, several bags of water .. excitement of a good sack... partner helping bag up stuff...... then it is just a misstake and a DQ is the call to be made ...

If Mark weighted his fish and did not diclose to the weight master at the time of weighting that he had a 6 th fish in the boat and KNEW it was in the boat.. that's a big problem...


Mark and his Am are the only ones that really know what their intent was...

I have know Mark for years... I think it is a honest misstake...

I do saulte Long for standing up and saying something.. no one should be bashed him for speaking up... THANKS LONG you did the right thing !!!!

Anyway you look at it.. it's a rough one to deal with..

The Drama Queens/ Rumor Runners will get alot of mileage of this one..

I was DQed once many years ago for being on the water during off limits.. honest misstake .. did not read the rules.. not something I was happy about .. and it still bothers me..

Note....... Gary .. your rant is dead on brother...

[stickbait]

Five to ten minutes later Mark returned to the scales. Bill Cook was weighing in a limit with another pro at the time. Mark came around us and approached Bill Hutcheson. He told Bill that he had a sixth fish in his livewell. Bill kind of paused and looked at him and Bill Cook came over and joined them. Both Bill’s looked at Mark and told him that they were disappointed for him but that he knew what they had to do and his weight for the day was then DQ’d.

A couple of minutes later, Long Ngyuen also re-approached the scales, looking for Mark, and was told that Mark Mendez had talked to them and had DQ’d himself.

sTony

I've heard this guy owns half the west coast. Does anyone know what he owns?

I guess I have to ask.. what does this have to do with the topic... friggin pot stirers !!

[stickbait]

You have to love when people say the Truth. Perception is a person's reality it is not THE reality. You can have 10 people see the same thing and get 10 different versions of what happened.

The Truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

This was/is a learning experience.

Things happen in tournaments and not everyone is out to pull a quick one.

DAMN.. that is very well said ... thanks .... I hope everyone reads it...

[one fish wonder]

Is this thread really still alive?

[CN]

Two things I find interesting is both the person in question and Tournament Directors have posted. There post's are more to the point and if it did go down with the person in question turning himself in what's the problem? Who else would you tell besides the Director. Did it happen because the other Angler was aware of it....perhaps who knows but this post's intention was to start crap.

I dont think much of the chucking of school fish to catch a bigger one either. And you dont have to be involved with Tournaments to have an opinion on Bass Fishing some of us that choose not to have been doing it for a long time and know what's going on.

Mike Nance

[fun4fish]

Five to ten minutes later Mark returned to the scales. Bill Cook was weighing in a limit with another pro at the time. Mark came around us and approached Bill Hutcheson. He told Bill that he had a sixth fish in his livewell. Bill kind of paused and looked at him and Bill Cook came over and joined them. Both Bill’s looked at Mark and told him that they were disappointed for him but that he knew what they had to do and his weight for the day was then DQ’d.

A couple of minutes later, Long Ngyuen also re-approached the scales, looking for Mark, and was told that Mark Mendez had talked to them and had DQ’d himself.

sTony

I've heard this guy owns half the west coast. Does anyone know what he owns?

I guess I have to ask.. what does this have to do with the topic... friggin pot stirers !!

I'd just like to know where my money isn't going in the future, is that ok??

I value sTony's word over the man in question and that is my choice. Frankly I am VERY surprised at how quiet everyone is being given that they are much more vocal over frivolous "stuff".

[DL]

I just wanted to be the 100th post in this thread....