To all the moral authorities in here.

[2ndsuks]

If you haven’t broken a rule during a tournament, lets hear from you.

[Brian Linehan]

[quote]

Not I said the Lord.

[mark poulson]

"Let he among you who is free of sin...."

[Rich hamilton]

co

[crawdaddy]

Once. But I really had to take a dump and it was easier to get out of the boat and squat on the levee then trying to grapple with the Opti. If I had been reported I would have forfeited the weight.

[Brian]

They are only cheating if they get caught, which is what it sounds like happened in a tourney a few weeks ago............

[Andy Giannini]

Do you mean intentionally?

One time, I had six fish up in the nose of a front Ranger livewell.

Did not count right, due to the green Bass saving stuff in the water.

Weighed five. Heard a thump in the boat, DQed myself.

I would say, its different if you knowingly broke a rule trying to gain advantage, vs. just screwing up and violating one.

.02 A.G.

[mark poulson]

I think the main difference between infractions is intent.
I had a judge tell me there can be no crime without intent.
If you accidentally kill someone, you're responsible for manslaughter, but not murder.
So every time "cheating" raises it's ugly head, we need to consider intent.

[Leon Pugh]

Tell that to the judge if you get a red light ticket.

[Greg_Cornish]

GIVE ME A ROCK!

[Toad]

If the speed limit is 65 on most lakes then No I have never broken the rules!

[fishinman]

I'm suppose to not relieve myself during a tournament, where in the world is that in any rule book. Indecent exposure I believe is a misdemeanor or a felony depending upon the circumstances and the state you dump off the back of your opti. So i guess this means you can't leave your boat under any circumstances ?

[sTony]

I think it's a reasonable expectation from all participants that there's no one cheating in tournaments, Mike. If 'everyone' is indeed breaking rules, I suppose I shouldn't enter a tournament again.

I've never knowingly broken any rule, never been protested in any way. Yeah, I'd say I've never broken a rule in a tournament. And I have the same expectations of the rest of the field.

Shouldn't we all have that expectation?

sTony

[Toad]

Hmmmmmmmmmm!

[Leon Pugh]

I will bet you have Tony! Key word (knowingly) We all do at some point, we just may not be aware of it.

[sTony]

I guess I don't understand your point and I think this thread is joke. No, you can't assume that just because I've fished tournaments that at some point I've broken a rule. And the casual attitude about the entire subject really stinks and doesn't bode well for our local tournament industry if it is truly how most pros feel.

There's a lot of guys that can make the same claim I can. They take the sport seriously and know that without rules there just isn't a competition at all. You can't pick and choose which rules apply to you and which don't. That's as big a joke as the idiot anglers pushing it.

The only thing I've learned for sure from this thread is that some folks shouldn't be allowed to compete until they can wrap their brains around what rules are for and what honor is about.

sTony

[DaLa]

....I have a friend that used to tee up his golf ball in the Fairway and still claim a better score than I........

never did understand his thinking on that.

D

[Robert F]

I guess I don't understand your point and I think this thread is joke. No, you can't assume that just because I've fished tournaments that at some point I've broken a rule. And the casual attitude about the entire subject really stinks and doesn't bode well for our local tournament industry if it is truly how most pros feel.

There's a lot of guys that can make the same claim I can. They take the sport seriously and know that without rules there just isn't a competition at all. You can't pick and choose which rules apply to you and which don't. That's as big a joke as the idiot anglers pushing it.

The only thing I've learned for sure from this thread is that some folks shouldn't be allowed to compete until they can wrap their brains around what rules are for and what honor is about.

sTony

The good thing is the majority of REAL professionals do have the morals to DQ themselves when a rules violation dictate that occur. Many Tour anglers DQed themselves last year for rules violations. Luckily I have never been in that position and hope never to. I believe most fish with integrity but some make a mistake.

I remember last year Cody Meyer accidentally ran across a cove, looked down and saw he was not wearing his vest. He immediately contacted Bill Taylor. Bill made him dump his limit (two-thirds through the day) and go back fishing. Luckily he went back out and caught 'em better over the last part of the day.

A rules violation is a mistake but not immoral. What you do about the mistake separates the cheater with no morals from the guy like Cody who faces up to his mistake and moves on down the road. I would like to think I fish like Cody. Just can't catch 'em like he does.

[Brian Linehan]

You are right Robert.

[Phil]

I will admit, I have broken the 5 MPH no wake zone rules a time or two. That would be it.

[Leon Pugh]

Please do not get offended I do not mean this as criticism to anyone. Just think for a moment and ask your self, have I ever done 6 mph in a 5, have I all ways (no exceptions had my life jacket and kill switch on even when driving the boat onto the trailer, have I always dropped to 5 mph when within 200 ft of a dock. Some times we all do things without thinking about them and no ones perfect. My point is that a D.Q. is just to harsh for some rules violations (I.E. mistakes). Many of these rules state (subject to D.Q. does not mean it could not be a lessor penalty. The way it is now is about the same as any law broken means you get the death penalty! Many of these broken rules are not cheating and should have a penalty, just not a D.Q. I do not want my competitor eliminated in that way. When I beat them, I want it to be because I had a good day fishing. I could not bring myself to file a complaint over the trivial stuff. Six fish in the live well. Idling the big engine with no life vest is trivial. I try to follow the rules at all times, but to say I have never broken one would be wrong. Not even Jesus was without sin!

[Pearl Swimbaits]

I will admit, I have broken the 5 MPH no wake zone rules a time or two. That would be it.

I would bet all have........and if yer gonna follow it to honor we speak of
5.1 is over 5.........

.......just gets you back to the begining.... intent....advantage....big deal
no big deal.....who knows???

my two cents much like golf...which i am a high school coach for golf, fishing and its rules are ancient and out dated...and ambiguous at best.

....needs an overhaul, and not everything needs to be the DEATH PENALTY....its just fishing

[Andy Giannini]

I think the funny thing about these type of threads or questions, is how people try to rationalize doing the wrong thing.

I mean the whole thread kicks off with the assumption that all tournament anglers have violated the rules at some point, and therefore all of them are cheaters?

Soooo, is it ok to cheat now? Is that where the string is headed, because "Everybody does it."?

That's pretty lame.

[stickbait]

I think the funny thing about these type of threads or questions, is how people try to rationalize doing the wrong thing.

I mean the whole thread kicks off with the assumption that all tournament anglers have violated the rules at some point, and therefore all of them are cheaters?

Soooo, is it ok to cheat now? Is that where the string is headed, because "Everybody does it."?

That's pretty lame.

Andy... what bothers me is so many anglers, mostly rookies in the sport will come across with the understanding that a rule violation is cheating.. and it is NOT !!

Intent is the key word...

Of couse it is not ok to cheat neither is a rule violation.. both carry the same outcome a DQ... but in my eyes if you CHEAT..and are proved to be a cheater you should be run out of the sport.. period!

If you break a rule ie.. life vest, late, 6 mph in a 5 zone ect ect.. oh well ...your just a dumb *** and get Dqed and move on.. no harm done, other than to your pocket book and some embarrassment that comes along with it..

Though I don't fish alot of tournament anymore the ones I have I lately I see more unsportmen like conduct than anything .. and to me that's real bad .. right there!

[Brian]

that a rule violation is cheating.. and it is NOT !!

!

At least someone gets it..............

[bryanmc]

Andy... what bothers me is so many anglers, mostly rookies in the sport will come across with the understanding that a rule violation is cheating.. and it is NOT

I agree completely.....

[Leon Pugh]

Years ago when Newby ran a good circuit in the TOC. I caught a 9lb first thing in the morning, in netting the fish my partner stretched a little to much and fell in. Rule was that you can not get out of the boat for any reason! I told Larry about it as well as every angler at the awards. Not one person considered that a rule violation. Common sense used to be common! Another rule to think about is when are we at the greatest risk, idling with the big motor or standing on the trolling motor, wind blowin, rockin all over the place and water temp is 40 deg. And how about hand throttles, allowing them totally blows me away. The rules need some work guys.

[Andy Giannini]

And that's what I wrote in my initial response,

"Intentionally?"

I screwed up, and counted wrong in a livewell, I did not try to weigh in six.



I do enjoy ethics questions.

A.G.

[stickbait]

[quote="Robert F
[/quote]
I remember last year Cody Meyer accidentally ran across a cove, looked down and saw he was not wearing his vest. He immediately contacted Bill Taylor. Bill made him dump his limit (two-thirds through the day) and go back fishing. Luckily he went back out and caught 'em better over the last part of the day.

:[/quote]

Whoa.. I never heard or read of a rule like this ..... I sure would like to read it somewhere??

So if I ran across the cove and did not have my jacket on and did not have any fish either .. It would not count as a violation.. I think not..

[Steve Reed]

If we are gonna go by the "a rule is a rule" saying, then next time you catch a bass outside of the mouth on a crankbait in a tournament go ahead and throw it back... and anyone who has kept one should have been dq'ed...

[Robert F]

[quote="Robert F
quote]
I remember last year Cody Meyer accidentally ran across a cove, looked down and saw he was not wearing his vest. He immediately contacted Bill Taylor. Bill made him dump his limit (two-thirds through the day) and go back fishing. Luckily he went back out and caught 'em better over the last part of the day.

:quote]

Whoa.. I never heard or read of a rule like this ..... I sure would like to read it somewhere??

So if I ran across the cove and did not have my jacket on and did not have any fish either .. It would not count as a violation.. I think not..

Here's Cody's blog from Loudon/Tellico
Practice:

This tournament was interesting because there are two lakes you have the option of fishing. One is Ft. Loudon and the other is Tellico. They are connected by a short canal and can both be fished in the same day. They do fish a bit different but generally they look similar.

My practice was pretty crappy. I ran a lot but only ended up catching 6 keepers in 3 days leaving me scratching my head for what I was going to do.I could catch a lot of short fish and I knew I was going to have to grind it out and try and catch 5 keepers a day somehow. Another thing I took note of is how pressure can affect the lake. Daily there are hundreds of recreational boats on the water and as the tournament pressure doesn't help the fishing.

Tournament day 1:

I was boat number 5 out and ready to go out and find 5 keepers. By 12 I had 2 fish when disaster struck. After I caught my second keeper I put the fish in the livewell and took my guidewear off as it got really warm. I decided to make a move and somehow I forgot to put my life vest on. I realized my mistake and called the TD. I went back to the weighin emptied my livewell and was allowed to go back out and fish. I was a bit discouraged having to start all over again at 1pm. I ran 5 minutes down the lake and caught 5 keepers all sight fishing using a weight less senko. One just happened to be a big smallmouth. My weight ended up 9-10 leaving me in 46th place.

Maybe he's a liar too. Not every rules violation is a DQ

[stickbait]

[quote="Robert F
quote]
I remember last year Cody Meyer accidentally ran across a cove, looked down and saw he was not wearing his vest. He immediately contacted Bill Taylor. Bill made him dump his limit (two-thirds through the day) and go back fishing. Luckily he went back out and caught 'em better over the last part of the day.

:quote]

Whoa.. I never heard or read of a rule like this ..... I sure would like to read it somewhere??

So if I ran across the cove and did not have my jacket on and did not have any fish either .. It would not count as a violation.. I think not..

Here's Cody's blog from Loudon/Tellico
Practice:

This tournament was interesting because there are two lakes you have the option of fishing. One is Ft. Loudon and the other is Tellico. They are connected by a short canal and can both be fished in the same day. They do fish a bit different but generally they look similar.

My practice was pretty crappy. I ran a lot but only ended up catching 6 keepers in 3 days leaving me scratching my head for what I was going to do.I could catch a lot of short fish and I knew I was going to have to grind it out and try and catch 5 keepers a day somehow. Another thing I took note of is how pressure can affect the lake. Daily there are hundreds of recreational boats on the water and as the tournament pressure doesn't help the fishing.

Tournament day 1:

I was boat number 5 out and ready to go out and find 5 keepers. By 12 I had 2 fish when disaster struck. After I caught my second keeper I put the fish in the livewell and took my guidewear off as it got really warm. I decided to make a move and somehow I forgot to put my life vest on. I realized my mistake and called the TD. I went back to the weighin emptied my livewell and was allowed to go back out and fish. I was a bit discouraged having to start all over again at 1pm. I ran 5 minutes down the lake and caught 5 keepers all sight fishing using a weight less senko. One just happened to be a big smallmouth. My weight ended up 9-10 leaving me in 46th place.

Maybe he's a liar too. Not every rules violation is a DQ

I'm not sure Robert..I'm not calling anyone a liar...I'll look up the rules

I found it... it was the right call

These rules will remain unchanged during 2010. Interpretation of these rules will be left exclusively to the tournament director. Decisions of the tournament director are final in all matters and are not subject to appeal. Each competitor agrees to report any rule violation to the tournament director immediately upon discovery of the violation. Failure to report violations may be cause for disqualification. The violation of a tournament rule may result in weight loss (late penalty, dead-fish penalty and short-fish penalty), the loss of weight up to a particular time in the tournament day (eligible for a restart), loss of weight for the entire day, disqualification for the entire tournament or, in an extreme circumstance, ineligibility to participate in future FLW Outdoors events. Protests must be made in writing within 30 minutes of the check-in time of the final flight of each tournament day.

[Marty]

Not even Jesus was without sin!

I total disagree!

As for the rules in tournaments I often wonder how that rule came about. Why is that rule so important and why is it more important that the next one. From the start of the event to the finish there is a rule – why? If the rule was so important it would seem most origination would word and enforce them the same. Don’t take me wrong – there needs to be rules but some are not worth the paper they are printed on.

Take the length of a fish, State law states 12 inches. But some originations have 12 and half inches while some make it 13 inches. Why? Could it be because the origination does not want to deal with an illegal fish under 12 inches – that is against the law and the origination does not want to deal with DFG?

Take the kill switch – most originations state you have to have a working kill switch but they don’t check it, except the FLW. If the rule is there why not check? More then likely it was put there for insurances reasons. If that is the case, check it and if it is not remove it.

Why have safety lights when most of the times we take off at safe light. If you go early than safe light they tell you after your first stop you can remove it. But what if it is still dark after your first stop? Again this was more then likely for insurance reasons.

Why the restriction on the length of a rod, if some one wants to use a 10 or 20 foot rod so what? I believe this rule was put in because the anglers want to control other fisherman that could use it as where they could not. So they cried until the rule was put in. I like to see a rule where no one can fish in deep water – why because I can’t.

How about the no trolling rule – why? If someone wants to troll to get their fish, so be it. Maybe the other anglers don’t know how to troll. Now we are arguing because some one used their TM.

Now the 5 MPH rule! Well you can’t talk about that without talking about the “No Wakeâ€

[2ndsuks]

I guess I don't understand your point and I think this thread is joke.

The only thing I've learned for sure from this thread is that some folks shouldn't be allowed to compete until they can wrap their brains around what rules are for and what honor is about.

sTony

Well it's obvious that some people on here do understand Tony and I'm sorry Cooch thinks it's dumb and you think it's a joke. Cooch was smart enough not to post on it though

My reason for starting this thread was to point out to all the
stone throwers that they and many other tournament anglers may have broke a rule at sometime or another. They don't DQ themselves because they don't consider it cheating.
It may be a small infraction like not displaying our fishing license when it was the law (guilty here, how about you) or smoking pot during a tournament ( never done that, how about you)
Anglers knew they were breaking the rules and the law yet they never turned themselves in, with the exception of Cody.


Stickbait got it right, so many anglers think that a rule violation is cheating.. and it is NOT !!

Even though some of us may have broke a rule, it does not make us cheaters.

[Greg_Cornish]

Andy... what bothers me is so many anglers, mostly rookies in the sport will come across with the understanding that a rule violation is cheating.. and it is NOT !!

Unless you knowingly violate a rule that gives you an unfair advantage and disregard it and try to get by with it.

[TYLUREcustombaits]

I can honestly say that while competing, neither my dad (my partner) or I have ever cheated or broken any rule at any time.
I am certainly not claiming myself as "holier than thou", but I would never sour the sport that I have loved since I was a child.
In my opinion cheaters are the same as thieves and both make me sick.
It is also my opinion that this state (California) and the other 49 states in this country do not prosecute cheaters/thieves as they should.
I can't tell you how many times I witness our competion either speeding, coming in late, or weighing in dead fish with zero penalties.
Sorry if I am coming off as complaining, but it bothers me.
Remember that breaking the rules IS cheating.
Yet, however much this does bother me, I try my best to not let it stop me from enjoying friendly competition in our local tourneys.
I LOVE this sport and always will.
Sorry again for venting,
Tyler

[Leon Pugh]

Marty we only disagree on one point and I think that is good. Just like all the rules that show the different points of view we all have. Some feel all rule violations are cheating some do not. I will not argue the one we don't agree on I can tell how strongly you feel about it and I respect that. I hope I did not offend you. I did not mean to do that. I have read the bible and just interpret it a little different than you. That statement was not meant in a derogatory way.

[rxfish]

Well you could look at it like this. If I violated a rule did it actually effect the outcome of the tournament for me. Taking a crap behind a rock up in a canyon somewhere because I got food poisoning is not changing anything for me or my competition in the end, and yes I've done that. Running over 5 miles an hour in the 5's, yep, done that too, but it changed nothing. Idling across a cove with the life vest on but not the kill switch, yep, done that too, and been with many pros that have done the same, but it changed nothing in the end.

[mark poulson]

If you did it by accident, and realized it afterward, tell the TD, and let him make the call.

[stickbait]

I can't tell you how many times I witness our competion either speeding, coming in late, or weighing in dead fish with zero penalties.
Tyler

Did you file a protest... ???? you know it is your responsibility to do so.. if not shame on you...

[WackySenko]

The closest I came was when I first started balck bass fishing and fished my second Redman in the Delta. At that point I was learning both bass fishing and the Delta, as a result I always let the boater have the front of the boat and select the waters to fish the whole day. At the end of the day we bagged the fish from my livewell. I thought that I was one fish short and I figured that I just lost count (very excited to fish tournaments and ride in a Ranger). As we bagged the boaters fish we found that he had 6 fish, his five and the one that I was missing. I had mistakenly put it in his livewell.
I have always, to my knowledge, fished a tournament and not broken any rules.

[WackySenko]

Opps. I know that somebody is going to nail me on 'balck bass' when it should have been black bass. SORRY

[stickbait]

The closest I came was when I first started balck bass fishing and fished my second Redman in the Delta. At that point I was learning both bass fishing and the Delta, as a result I always let the boater have the front of the boat and select the waters to fish the whole day. At the end of the day we bagged the fish from my livewell. I thought that I was one fish short and I figured that I just lost count (very excited to fish tournaments and ride in a Ranger). As we bagged the boaters fish we found that he had 6 fish, his five and the one that I was missing. I had mistakenly put it in his livewell.
I have always, to my knowledge, fished a tournament and not broken any rules.

I had something like that happen to me .. long long ago (draw tournaments) I fished with dave glibee we had limits and were fishing to cull.. I looked in my well and had 6 fish .. looked in his he had 4 .. hum...?? he either put one in my side or one slipped over the top of the plastice divider that was in the live well at that time..

Anyway we stopped fishing sat down and talked about it.. we agreed he would take the smallest one in my side as it seemed the right thing to do.. ...gentlemens agreement and went back to fishing never thought anymore about it.... maybe we both cheated

I bet him by a few oz that day...