Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
Exactly, it is not the responsiblitly of the anglers to fill the events with other anglers that's the FLW's reponsibiltiy. Remember, this isn't a team event. so why should you have to sign up with another angler? All that is necessary is to make sure there are and even number of front seater and back seaters. This can be accomplished fairly by taking the guys (or gals) from the pre- registartion list in the order that they signed up.
First come first serve, pretty simple.....
First come first serve, pretty simple.....
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
big rye you should do some research about poaching it goes both ways. If you look up the end of the year points after about 60 anglers it's all poachers picking events in there home waters. There are 231 anglers that fished this year. Anyway all i was saying is if they started over here maybe more of these guys would fish the entire season if they got a good start to the points. No i do not fish these as I was hoping to be able to start out with the strens this year but as you know they were canceled.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
I think some of you are missing the point. If they allow a co to get in at the last minute by getting another pro to sign up it probably gains another 15-20 entries from the local bumpkins. If you can get those newbies to sign up and donate it keeps the trail alive until the economy recovers and most of us here in AZ can't fish so we are easy pickin's for you big leaguers. Without this plan you would have had 80 boats which is embarrassing for FLW. In this economy I wouldn't whine too much about how you are entitled to be in the tourney just because you could afford to fork over some dough and sign up for a season. You will end up losing those extra boats and you still won't get in.
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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
California is so full of cry babies. Stop crying and get over it. What isn't fair is how many tournaments are in your cry babies back yard. Just a bunch of wannabes complaining.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
What's embarrassing is the turnout from the ARIZONA guys. Eighty boats or Ninety-seven boats, both are a far cry (get it)Ringer wrote:I think some of you are missing the point. Without this plan you would have had 80 boats which is embarrassing for FLW

If the field was filled by those Arizona boaters the 4 tournament guys would have got in. They do not take more than 150 on the waiting list. When there are 150 on the waiting list they will not allow an angler outside the 150 to jump in on the priority.
I understand the Arizona guys being pissed off at these "poacher" pot-shots. They are un-called for. We need Arizona guys to play and make this thing fill up. I think there were quite a few Arizona 4 tournament anglers. It is my personal opinion there are more Shasta "poachers" that won't leave their home lake than anywhere in the west. Nobody calling them out.
You can not blame anybody but Arizona and FLW for the size of that field. FLW changed the Cup qualification to only take the top ten. Why anybody would drive 15 to 20 hours from Northern California to fish a local edge lake when they have no shot at the Cup berth is beyond me. If FLW kept the Cup qualification "carrot" larger like past years there would have been more Cali boaters fishing for the Cup. Many guys were out after the first tournament because they didn't feel they could climb back to finish in the top ten year-end. That's OK, FLW had a plan. Arizona will fill the field.
Arizona sold FLW a bill of goods on their participation and you guys didn't show. I have e-mails from Arizona officials telling me they had this thing handled. The local participation was going to be huge and I better get my deposit in too or I would miss the biggest show of the year.
I credit the Arizona officials for their enthusiasm. Just need to figure out why they couldn't produce the numbers they expected in the desert. Next year we are coming back. Are we going to have the same failure for stop number two like we did for stop number four?
I only live a few hours away. Definitely not the 15 to 20 hour distance that you guys want the Nor. Cal. guys to drive and I am considering not coming out. Posts and threads calling the Cali. guys whiners make me think Arizona is not a friendly place to bring my boat and truck.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
Robert-ignore the poaching deal. We just like to fight and are less civilized than you guys. I was not at all surprised we couldn't fill the tournament. We are just a small state and don't really have that many competitive anglers. We are also broke. I had to sell my boat two years ago so I could keep my business open. It is starting to recover so I will buy again next year sometime. We used to draw 150 boats for an MBC tournament but not in this economy. I was glad they got 97 boats this year. Anyway it seems like those who did fish had a decent time and I hope the FLW does it again when things are better. If I am in good shape next year I will contribute $3000 to your retirement fund. 

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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
I've been involved in this sport since 1972, so I've seen it grow from $75 entry fees and a few plaques handed out at the ramp to a nationally televised, big money sport. so I feel qualified to jump in. It's just as far from Roosevelt to Shasta as it is from Shasta to Roosevelt. I was disappointed I didn't see more boaters fishing all four than I did. If guys would put up their money and fish, we wouldn't have any co-anglers left behind. Next year will be a series of lesser events because the west coast anglers didn't step up. FLW will be back because they want to give the future top anglers from the west a chance to succeed just like Brent Ehrler, Justin Lucas, Michael Bennett, et al. I'm an over-the-hill angler that doesn't have much chance against the young guns that fish full time, but I will continue to support FLW as long as I can because of the great opportunity offered to those that dream of making it big. Guys that step up and switch from co-angler to boater get nothing but respect from me. That's a big step and a big commitment that will do more to give everyone a chance at "the bigs" than any amount of whining. I truly do respect anyone that will support FLW rather than snipe from the sidelines. I you fish all four and want to offer some suggestions to FLW directly, by all means go right ahead. If you never fish their events, then in my opinion, you have no right to criticize or try to destroy the sport that some of us love so dearly. Whining about FLW on westernbass.com does no good for the sport, the anglers or FLW. If you can't make a positive contribution to "my" sport, keep your piehole shut. Makes no difference to me whether your a "pro", a "boater", a "co" or a sidlelines whiner. I'm out.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
I know there are a lot of civilized guys in Arizona. Probably more that can spell the word in Arizona than California as well.Ringer wrote:Robert-ignore the poaching deal. We just like to fight and are less civilized than you guys.


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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
what about the travel prefish two weeks away from family for the az fisherman that would have to do the same thing if they did take the tourney from here and move it to shasta or where ever in ca I got a solution how bout just boycott az all together
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
WOW Paul I like it. Actually nice finish at roose
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
You're comparing apples to oranges. I wouldn't go as far as calling the turnout at Roosevelt an "embarrassment" when the Cali Delta event pulled 117 boats.Robert F wrote: What's embarrassing is the turnout from the ARIZONA guys. Eighty boats or Ninety-seven boats, both are a far cry (get it)from the full field we heard Arizona would produce.
I'm sure they're are quite a few guys that didn't show up at Rosey because they have no shot at the FWC/AOY.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
So did everyone complaining about this sign up for all four events prior to the Dec 31st deadline?
I jacked myself for the same reason and missed Stren championship. My fault. I didn't sign up for all events prior to the deadline. I got in all the events except the last one at Clear Lake. I only needed to catch one fish to go to the Championship.
I tried to see how I did at Shasta before I signed up for all the events. I did well and signed up for the final three events after Shasta. My Bad
I tried everything to get in to the last event. I sold 42 Ranger Boats that year. My buddy emailed Erwin Jacobs (then owner of Ranger and FLW)and complained for me. Erwin called me at lunch one day at work and said he would see what he could do. Guess what I didn't get in.
I was in the trenches making Erwin money I'm a Ranger owner I should have gotten in. Negative, rules are rules.
I jacked myself for the same reason and missed Stren championship. My fault. I didn't sign up for all events prior to the deadline. I got in all the events except the last one at Clear Lake. I only needed to catch one fish to go to the Championship.
I tried to see how I did at Shasta before I signed up for all the events. I did well and signed up for the final three events after Shasta. My Bad
I tried everything to get in to the last event. I sold 42 Ranger Boats that year. My buddy emailed Erwin Jacobs (then owner of Ranger and FLW)and complained for me. Erwin called me at lunch one day at work and said he would see what he could do. Guess what I didn't get in.
I was in the trenches making Erwin money I'm a Ranger owner I should have gotten in. Negative, rules are rules.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
619, It's obvious you didn't read the tread or the BassFan article.
check it out..
check it out..
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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
If the boys from California ran FLW all of the tournament checks would be in IOU's instead. It is so typical that people from Cali think they are entitled to everything.
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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
I wonder if it would work if FLW had a rule for when there are not enough Pros something along the following line.
One week or so prior to the entry deadline date, CoAnglers on the wait list are put on a list in the order that they signedup. One list has Cos with boats and one list has Cos without boats. Cos are then called to see if they want to fish in a manner similar to the old Redman Tournaments. Boat owner pilots the boat all day but each get the trolling motor for half the day. Both are fishing on the Co side of the tournament for points and cash. This might be a way to have more guys in the tournament and maybe have some guys stepup to the Pro side the following year.
One week or so prior to the entry deadline date, CoAnglers on the wait list are put on a list in the order that they signedup. One list has Cos with boats and one list has Cos without boats. Cos are then called to see if they want to fish in a manner similar to the old Redman Tournaments. Boat owner pilots the boat all day but each get the trolling motor for half the day. Both are fishing on the Co side of the tournament for points and cash. This might be a way to have more guys in the tournament and maybe have some guys stepup to the Pro side the following year.
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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
Horrible idea for multiple reasons. I'd say 90 percent of the game as a FLW Co angler is dealing with poor to non existent angles for casting and retrieving baits because of boat angles. Next, your fishing behind a guy that might be a vacuum or just plain doesn't necessarily want you to catch fish because he's only got so much water for himself over 3 or 4 days. If this was a rule I'd very much want to take my boat and fish from the front even for a couple of hours. Best fix would have been go with the original interpretation of the sign up rules that Hoover went over with all of us at Shasta.WackySenko wrote:I wonder if it would work if FLW had a rule for when there are not enough Pros something along the following line.
One week or so prior to the entry deadline date, CoAnglers on the wait list are put on a list in the order that they signedup. One list has Cos with boats and one list has Cos without boats. Cos are then called to see if they want to fish in a manner similar to the old Redman Tournaments. Boat owner pilots the boat all day but each get the trolling motor for half the day. Both are fishing on the Co side of the tournament for points and cash. This might be a way to have more guys in the tournament and maybe have some guys stepup to the Pro side the following year.
Guy Williams
You know it's going to hell when the best rapper out there is white and the best golfer is black.
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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
Here was another rule change of sort. After my "your in, your in, your out your finally in" debacle. At that time I put my deposits down for the rest of the year. I was told that I would be in. Then I got a call from Chris Hoover and was told I would be confirmed IF I was able to get someone or someone's to sign up with me for the remainder of the season(3 tournaments). BUT I had to do this by Feb 22 or I would remain on a waiting list. Well by Feb 21st I was not able to get anyone to confirm for all 3 tournaments so I withdrew my deposits. It was only after that when they changed it to bring in a pro and your in. By that time most of the time I need off was already taken by other people in my shop. So once again FLW was changing up in mid stream.
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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
The point that Guy makes about the Pro's bringing the money and the TV crews is true, however, the Co's that are signing up in advance for the whole season are the guys that are one day going to be a Pro and FLW not letting them compete is only going to cause those Co's to look elsewhere for the fishing tournaments. By signing up and paying their deposit for the season they are doing so with the hope their gonna make it into the cup and if FLW is preventing them from doing so by not allowing them into a tournament they paid in advance for, they are burning their own bridge. Roy and some of these other guys have been paying their fees and fishing FLW for years. They should have priority over the 40 some odd co-anglers that signed up at the last minute in AZ. FLW needs to put rules in place that they are going to adhere to... you mean to tell me that AZ pro's that signed up, wouldn't have fished if FLW told them thier Co's would have to go on a waiting list because the Co's that had already signed up had first priority?? doubt it....they still woulda fished!
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
You really expect a bunch of locals here to call you and make sure they aren't taking your place as a co? If the FLW rules allow them to talk their buddy into fishing pro then that is what will happen. You can bet there would have been fewer boats fishing it if you didn't have local guys signing up with their buddies. This is a small state and we filled more spots than your state and you can bet we don't have more than 20-30 people who are even competitive.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
I'm not sure if you realize it, but you just pointed out every reason why the last event of the years SHOULD NOT be held in AZ.
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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
So if I'm following the point you're trying to make, if I were one of the Co Anglers that didn't get in after paying at the beginning of the season, I would be even more pissed.
You're saying that the AZ guys are not competitive and just signed up for the "hell of it", which means the Co-Anglers that were in the running to qualify for the cup didn't get to fish in AZ because some guys thought it would be fun to fish an FLW tourni?? Aren't there smaller tournaments that they could have fished that day so the Co-Anglers that were actually trying to accomplish something could have fished and possibly qualified for the FWC?
I think people are missing the point that some people do this to win and to make it to the FWC ....they pay their money up front, not because they have a money tree in their backyard, but because they believe they can win and when they are passed over because FLW decided to change the rules mid way through, the money they paid to fish the other tournaments in the series is wasted.
This isn't a California vs Arizona issue...I have nothing against AZ, it is an FLW issue and the Co-Anglers that paid up front and had a real opportunity to qualify for the FWC are the ones that lose!!
You're saying that the AZ guys are not competitive and just signed up for the "hell of it", which means the Co-Anglers that were in the running to qualify for the cup didn't get to fish in AZ because some guys thought it would be fun to fish an FLW tourni?? Aren't there smaller tournaments that they could have fished that day so the Co-Anglers that were actually trying to accomplish something could have fished and possibly qualified for the FWC?
I think people are missing the point that some people do this to win and to make it to the FWC ....they pay their money up front, not because they have a money tree in their backyard, but because they believe they can win and when they are passed over because FLW decided to change the rules mid way through, the money they paid to fish the other tournaments in the series is wasted.
This isn't a California vs Arizona issue...I have nothing against AZ, it is an FLW issue and the Co-Anglers that paid up front and had a real opportunity to qualify for the FWC are the ones that lose!!
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
I guess a bowling shirt is a big deal in California but you can bet plenty of the people fishing from here did it because they were told we should support FLW and our local businesses and they were fishing for the experience and not thinking they were taking home first place. You really think if your state pulls 150 anglers that they all are serious contenders for FLW? Of course we can fish plenty of local circuits just like you do but why wouldn't the average Joe want to try to beat the pros if he had the extra cash laying around? After reading all this whiney bitching I could care less if FLW ever comes here again and they can make it the California Godlike Elite Bowling Shirt Open. Enjoy your fame.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
Ringer, your reasoning skills are "So" sophisticated that you should apply for an upper management position with the FLW. Base on the letter posted in the BAssFan article, you'll fit right in.
Just remember, when you apply your resume states that you have your GED, you may become the CEO......
Just remember, when you apply your resume states that you have your GED, you may become the CEO......

Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
I am not taking sides here so please do not get all pissed at me.
This question is for the 2 that did not fish due to the lack of Pros signing up?
would you have fished if the 31 Co's that brought PRO's with them never showed up?
so what I am trying to figure out from you guys is this if the field had stayed at 67 or what ever the # was before the "change in the rules" would you have fished?
I see it like this, FLW's job it to fill the field as best as they can! I do understand your fustration in the situation and missing the cup that sucks and I would hate to be in your shoes.
for all the others making opinions about the rules from postes on the WEB if you dont like the rules call FLW or email them they will take the time to talk to you and try and help you understand.
I emailed FLW yesterday and got a email reply this morning from Dave Washburn who I called and he went thru the rules about priority sign ups, and I even asked him some situational questions which he answered. He was very honest and did not try and blow smoke up my butt.
I have not fish the FLW events and Have alway thought it would be cool to be a co and try and learn from the Pro's.
If the two are willing to talk to me please pm me your # and the best time to call so I can ask you some questions.
Thanks and please like I said I am not taking any sides here. Not saying AZ is a buch of "blanks" or CAli is better or FLW is right or wrong I am trying to gain info to make my decision on the situation.
Thanks
Duff
This question is for the 2 that did not fish due to the lack of Pros signing up?
would you have fished if the 31 Co's that brought PRO's with them never showed up?
so what I am trying to figure out from you guys is this if the field had stayed at 67 or what ever the # was before the "change in the rules" would you have fished?
I see it like this, FLW's job it to fill the field as best as they can! I do understand your fustration in the situation and missing the cup that sucks and I would hate to be in your shoes.
for all the others making opinions about the rules from postes on the WEB if you dont like the rules call FLW or email them they will take the time to talk to you and try and help you understand.
I emailed FLW yesterday and got a email reply this morning from Dave Washburn who I called and he went thru the rules about priority sign ups, and I even asked him some situational questions which he answered. He was very honest and did not try and blow smoke up my butt.
I have not fish the FLW events and Have alway thought it would be cool to be a co and try and learn from the Pro's.
If the two are willing to talk to me please pm me your # and the best time to call so I can ask you some questions.
Thanks and please like I said I am not taking any sides here. Not saying AZ is a buch of "blanks" or CAli is better or FLW is right or wrong I am trying to gain info to make my decision on the situation.
Thanks
Duff
Last edited by duff75 on Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
I was a CEO for thirty years so I understand completely. Not everyone thinks they are KVD. Some people just enjoy the sport and don't really think they are responsible for re-writing FLW rules. You don't like it then complain to someone who cares.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
Let’s just assume you were a CEO for thirty years. Then you should be the first to understand that you don't change the rules in the middle of the game, especially when it has a negative affect on your repeat customers that support your business. That's just not good business and it will eventually show at the bottom line.
It sounds to me like you've gotten quite emotional about this.
Business isn't emotional, it’s about making the proper strategic decisions to sustain and grow that particular business. The FLW has made a strategic move that has blown up in their face and it will eventually show in its bottom line. That's just business. But since you were a CEO for thirty years you already understand that, right?
It sounds to me like you've gotten quite emotional about this.
Business isn't emotional, it’s about making the proper strategic decisions to sustain and grow that particular business. The FLW has made a strategic move that has blown up in their face and it will eventually show in its bottom line. That's just business. But since you were a CEO for thirty years you already understand that, right?
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
You have mistaken emotional for not caring. As you stated it is a business problem with FLW and should never have included all the BS about Arizona poachers. If they allow them to sign up the way they did then that is what will happen. Hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
Not really a valid question as the Co's did not bring the pro's. I am sure most if not all of the pro's would have signed up without a CO.duff75 wrote: would you have fished if the 31 Co's that brought PRO's with them never showed up?
Duff
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
*NM*
Last edited by aw on Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Subject: Did FLW F*** some Co-Angler at Roosevelt event?
[quote="Ringer"]You have mistaken emotional for not caring. As you stated it is a business problem with FLW and should never have included all the BS about Arizona poachers. If they allow them to sign up the way they did then that is what will happen. Hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.[/quote]
Now you're talkin... I agree, maybe the poacher reference was out of line. But I think it was caused by the frustration that was felt by some of the guys that were keep out of the event.
I think the FLW needs to concider rehiring Chris Jones or at least hire him as a consultant. That guy is a class act and knows how to run a program. This kind of fiasco never was an issue when he was in charge of the west.
Now you're talkin... I agree, maybe the poacher reference was out of line. But I think it was caused by the frustration that was felt by some of the guys that were keep out of the event.
I think the FLW needs to concider rehiring Chris Jones or at least hire him as a consultant. That guy is a class act and knows how to run a program. This kind of fiasco never was an issue when he was in charge of the west.
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