Polygraph... Ever taken one?

[bryanmc]

Ive seen in just about every tournament organization's rules that folks can be required to take a polygraph, voice stress analysis or some other form of "truth verification" test. I seem to remember some organization (don't remember which one) even having a "polygraph fee" in among all the other fees associated with entering. I've been fishing bass tournaments since 1980 and have never been asked to take one nor am I aware of anyone ever being required to take one. I'm sure some folks have, but just how many? Is it a reality or mostly an empty threat?

[Mark Hiser]

The original $100.00 per pound tournament put on by the Cottonwood Bass Team had a polygraph test administered at their tournaments, 1 for the Winning team and 1 for Big Bass.

It was administered on at least a couple occasions that I am aware of.

I was told I would have to have one once, then in the end the TD/Owner decided it wasn't needed.

I think they are a reality, and wish more Org's would follow thru with it, not at TOC's or year end events, but during the year, no announcement, just a delay in the awards.

They do take some time to administer.
Mark

[offduty]

Yeah I took one once and can tell you they are almost worthless. if you can stay calm you can fool em. Thats how I became a security guard in 82.

Rich

[Marty]

I use to take them when I was working in the “Nuclear Weapons Field” and they don’t stand on their own. There has to be other methods combined with polygraph to determine ones guilt. Also there are different types (levels) of polygraphs.

I believe the originations that list them in their rules, listed them as a deterrent.

[ASD]

I have taken many over the past 20 years for work. And it's all about who is taking the test and who is giveing it an how the ? are asked !!!!!! If you are a COOL headed person it'a hard to tell in you are not telling the truth if you are hiper and or a nervice nelly it's hard to tell if you are telling the truth. I have been givin the "same test" by diffrent people and had way diffrent out comes. So my .02 is they should not b used in turnnys unless the turnny ORG is ready to court and spend lots of $$

[New Texan]

I lived and fished tourneys in San Diego/So Cal for over 20 years and never once heard of anybody taking one. And there have been some suspicious characters over the years as well as some confirmed cheaters that cost me personally in the thousands (and I'm pretty poor).

I've now lived in Texas just over 5 years and have taken one twice. They are administered here in probably over 80% of the tourneys (anything above a club level). Even if they are mostly only a deterrent its better than nothing. It makes me more careful about life jackets, culling, etc., knowing I may have to take one. I don't think I could beat one. They should be sprung out of the blue once in a while to at least try and flush out any thieves.

If anyone can cheat AND beat a lie detector they truly are a sorry excuse for a person.

[JJCJR]

Go to the Joe Delia interview on Rod and Reel radio a few months ago.

http://www.rodandreelradio.com/archives.html

It can be the real deal in the right hands.

[longshot]

"It can be the real deal in the right hands.[/quote]"

There lies the problem Do you feel it is fair to put someones tourament life on the line by having a false reading on a test??? I really really think that it is a very bad idea to administer a test that is not 100%..........The risk to someones fishing future is just to important.

It is a really sucky deal that we seem to be dwelling on a recent bad seed. There is and always will be cheaters. I think the best way to find them and catch em is red handed and that is hard to do BUT just in the Hart case and others before him there were red flags all over the place. Tournament orgs need to do there homework to watch out for its customers by looking at the guys always finishing at the top, put eyes on those guys.
I also hate to think that we are paying for a test that never gets admitted. Just one more way we HAVE to pay for something that we get nothing in return for. Maybe they should take that money and pay a W.S. to follow someone.
Longshot

[bryanmc]

Well, my intent in starting this thread was to see if the orgs were actually using the very thing they have in their rules to "prevent" cheating. I wasn't looking for a referendum on whether they can be beat, or whether they're admissible or if you had to take one for your job, just whether tournament organizations were using them.

As far as the WS idea, please remember that Mike Hart did the deed with three different AAA anglers within 10 feet of him. Think you'd have a better chance of seeing something from 30 or 40 yards?

[flipit]

Bryan touched on the problem. The orgs that charge for it and dont administer are thieves. Im pretty sure that the one I fished years ago never did do a test. They just charged $5 per team per tournament, seems pretty lucrative to me.

[Cody Meyer]

I have taken 2. Both @ the FLW Forrest Wood Cup. It's good to know that they do inforce it with FLW.
Cody

[bryanmc]

Thanks Cody. Even with a co-angler or cameraman on all the competition days they still administer a polygraph. It's refreshing to see that one of the biggest tournament organizations in the country isn't afraid to test.

[Lynne]

National Bass West just administered a lie detector test to the first place team of our 2010 Havasu Classic. They past with flying colors.

Lynne Peterson

[bryanmc]

Good job Lynne...
I think a lot of people that might consider cheating would think twice about it if a poly or vsa was a real possibility. Do you (the team in question) really want to hang your hat on a test being inaccurate when both team members fail? I sure as hell wouldn't.

[rmbumpus]

I have taken two. Passed them both. I have a Law Enforcement background. I was a homicide detective and a Special Agent in the Justice Department pre and post 9-11. I worked undercover narcotics. I had numerous suspects swear up and down they were not guilty. I am amazed how many people spill their guts before the examiner turns the machine on. That's called a confession. That is admissible in court. Most lean forward in the seat. Start crying. When the nose starts running you know you got them. My partner and I used to ask each other, as we exited the interview room "did ya get snot?" Meaning did you get the confession. You can fake the tears but never the snot. Snot is a truth detector. Most suspects went to jail feeling better about themselves after unloading the big lie. Further if its a spontaneous statement it can be taken outside of Miranda. A good true polygraph examiner, that is worth his salt, is a student of the study of body language. It's not just the machine. It's the room, examiner, the time and place. A good polygraph examiner can be compared to a car salesman. They can tell if your going to buy a car when you walk on the lot. A good polygraph examiner can tell if you are going to lie before he hooks you up.

[Cooch]

Bryan,

I have been subjected to 4 in tournaments over the years. The first time was a Top Six team tournament up at ClearLake, when the Contra Costa Bass club took 2nd in our first run at that tournament. The second time was the very next year, when we took second again, in the same tournament. The third time was in the final Top Six right here on the Delta, when the NCBF team actually won the event. In all three of these, I was the team Captain and suposedly was the random selected team member! LOL The forth time was a Pro-Am right here on the Delta where I took a 2nd place, I don't recall which org it was, coulda been 100%, WON or the original AC Pro-am, these were all back in the 90s.

The questions asked were split 50/50 between tournament fishing rules and personal related issues. Each one was quite intimidating and weird. Each time I just answered every question truthfully, got thru it, thanked them for their efforts and moved on. I have fished many tournaments over the years where the polygraph test was administered. Used ta tick me off having to wait for my check before I could git the hell out of Dodge and start heading on my way home.

[Terry Smith]

Wish I could actually WIN A tournament so I could HEHHEHEHHE

[Mark Hiser]

I have a question for you Bryan, given your background in law enforcement, have you any experience with either the Voice Stress or Poly??? If so what are your opinions???
Mark

[Spookin'Em43]

I watched an episode of Penn and Teller BULL$#!^ and they showed how you can beat a polygraph by clenching the muscles in your @$$ Kinda beyond the point, just thought it was kinda funny, and interesting.

[rmbumpus]

Poly Vs. Voice stress. Both I have taken were the old style poly. The new voice stress I have never taken. I know for a while and maybe still the CHP used the voice stress for their applicants as part of their hiring process. From what I gathered in the 7 years I was a cop, it really depended on the examiner's training, thus if they were trained in the voice stress it was better and if there were trained on the old style poly those examiners believed in that. I personally don't think they work. I had an arsonist pass a voice stress I could have sworn was guilty. I will go to the grave knowing he burned his own parents property. Polys are a tool used for interrogation to get folks with normal conscience to spill their guts before they turn the thing on. A true psycho will pass every time because they have no emotion. Also Narcissist pass them all the time due to the fact they are self centered ego maniacs who believe they could have invented the machine given the time. All that stuff about putting a tack in your shoe is urban legend. Its about timing that is why they ask you a set of base line questions they already know the answers to. Then they say "did you take your fish out of a submerged cage"? Then you go huh and delay with an answer. That is when I would enter the room and try to get the body language to change to a leaning forward head held low and start to minimize the crime and sell to suspect they would fell a lot better and could start out new today if they got the monkey off their back. It ain't like on TV. If you handle them like Sipowicz they ask for a lawyer every time. What bass fishing needs is a good "stop loss investigator" who actually has some skills. It's the study of human nature, behavior and body language. The eyes and head posture, leaning back with arms folded. There are whole books written on what people do with their eyes when they lie and also there are books on how a liar answers questions. In my opinion if bass fishing is relying on polygraphs to police their tournaments these organizations will let a lot of cheaters slip through.