ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

[Levy]

what about looking at a model of what works? check out http://www.basschamps.com ...all you have to do is look at the results of this past season and I think the numbers(turnouts and payback) speak for themselves.

The real difference with Basschamps and our most of our local orgs is that those folks help subsidize the entry's/payouts by working hard and bringing in outside sponsor $$$.

FLW, NBW and Tracy Bass are the only folks I know in california that are doing something similar to bring paybacks to 100% or more.

Face it our local orgs are going to need to get off thier butts and work to get Sponsor $$$ if they hope to have any chance to compete.

[JRS]

Levy, YOU NAILED IT!!!!!!! SO SIMPLE!!!!!!! YET EVERYONE (TDs) WANNA KEEP PASSIN THE BUCK OVER THERE AND DON'T GET ANYTHING DONE FOR THE FISHERMAN............. except maybe some tacos

[RMANZO]

RUTHMAN,, you are ""ALWAYS" complaining about guys able to prefish all week and you cant..you "ALWAYS" say there are always the same winners..."YOU ARE SOOOO WRONG"..... come on now...the fish usually change over night...alot of times people put in a few days prefishing and stinK it up...the tourney comes and they do great...."YOU EITHER HAVE IT OR YOU DONT"....and as far as the "rookie"stuff, i always hear the same names in the top over and over..DONT FORGET, "THE CREAM "ALWAYS" RISES TO THE TOP!!!! also, no one in the motherlode showed up for the other orgs opening events these past 2 weeks because,as stated over and over in this post, "the weak will fade and the strong will keep gaining #'s"!!! if you "REALLY" want to fish a motherlode circuit, come out and fish the aba motherlode this saturday....YES,WE WENT TO 1-IN-3 PAYBACK, BUT IF YOU THINK YOU CAN MAKE THE TOP "3" WE HAVE AN OPTION IN PLACE THAT WILL GIVE THE $$$ BACK TO 1ST-3RD.....SEE YA HERE

[Turkeyman]

I not sure how orgs. breakdown the payout % but if there were 10 boats for an event with a $300 all in and another event that had 75 boats for a $150 dollar all in, who would have the best payout for first?

[Brian Ruthman]

Robert , Im not complaining i just asked some guys i know that fish the rookie leage stuff and i wrote down what they told me . Im fishing Nor-Cal Bass and the CBC i have already made my mind up that is what im going to do this year because of the low entry fee and great payback , plus with the economy there is not much in the way of overtime so i dont want to risk much . Im more concerned with taking care of my family and such .
It doesnt bother me who fishes during the week , nothing i can do about it . I take off work and Pre-Fish sometimes , most years i have extra vacation time left so that is not a problem . I have fished alot of different events and against alot of different teams and Pro's i just like to fish for the fun of it , and have a good time and even though i dont get to fish as much as many guys out there i still feel i can compete . You have called me chicken to fish your events before , that is so far from the truth i have fished against some of the best guys away from my home lakes and won , maybe that was just beginners luck though .
Why are you always trying to piss me off saying im whining ? Your events are ran very good and i always liked fishing the ABA , even before you started running them , you do a great job and go the extra mile ! Have i ever said one bad thing about the ABA ?
When i decide to fish team events we both decide what we want to fish , that is pretty simple . Nor-Cal Bass was the first tourney i had ever fished and i like the people who run it , they are down to earth and are totally for the fishermen , i like that . I like everthing they have to offer because it is all up front before i give them any money , i know what to expect from their past results . Plus they are in my price range for this year , it is not about the large payback to me these days , it is more about having fun with a friend who likes to fish same as me .

[Robert F]

Why are you always trying to piss me off saying im whining ? Your events are ran very good and i always liked fishing the ABA , even before you started running them , you do a great job and go the extra mile ! Have i ever said one bad thing about the ABA ?

The second personal attack by a TD toward a customer in this thread. Maybe more? but I do remember two. Maybe this is why tournament attendance is down. I know of at least one org. that I will never fish because of the TD. Maybe this is why customers pass on the product? Some of you guys need to realize the VALUE of your customers and customer service.

Maybe the "if you don't like it, don't fish it" rings louder than you all realize. I am sure the customers that the TDs piss off take other business with them as well.

[flipit]

Why are you always trying to piss me off saying im whining ? Your events are ran very good and i always liked fishing the ABA , even before you started running them , you do a great job and go the extra mile ! Have i ever said one bad thing about the ABA ?

The second personal attack by a TD toward a customer in this thread. Maybe more? but I do remember two. Maybe this is why tournament attendance is down. I know of at least one org. that I will never fish because of the TD. Maybe this is why customers pass on the product? Some of you guys need to realize the VALUE of your customers and customer service.

Maybe the "if you don't like it, don't fish it" rings louder than you all realize. I am sure the customers that the TDs piss off take other business with them as well.

I really hate to say it, but I agree with Robert.

[Mike]

Why are you always trying to piss me off saying im whining ? Your events are ran very good and i always liked fishing the ABA , even before you started running them , you do a great job and go the extra mile ! Have i ever said one bad thing about the ABA ?

The second personal attack by a TD toward a customer in this thread. Maybe more? but I do remember two. Maybe this is why tournament attendance is down. I know of at least one org. that I will never fish because of the TD. Maybe this is why customers pass on the product? Some of you guys need to realize the VALUE of your customers and customer service.

Maybe the "if you don't like it, don't fish it" rings louder than you all realize. I am sure the customers that the TDs piss off take other business with them as well.

I really hate to say it, but I agree with Robert.

+1 ABA need to put their TD through anger management classes before letting them post on a public forum.

[RMANZO]

[swimbait]

Hey I finally found the reply button on the new forum This could be dangerous...

Cooch - Like you I was kinda over the idea of a 1 in 3 payback. For me it's all selfish right, because the way Nico and I fish we either suck and come in last place or we win. There's not a lot of in between, so who cares what 8th place pays right? I'd imagine you have the same view on things?

But thinking on it more I'm open to giving 1 in 3 payback a chance because if you draw another 15 or 20 guys, the first place payback will probably be the same as it was before. Could be a nice win-win kind of thing where the payback goes deeper but the top stays the same. Just speculating!

Manzo - thanks for all your efforts for the sport. TD's do it for a lot of different reasons and people who fish your stuff know you're all about the sport. I fish and sponsor your circuit because even when we come in last I can drive home feeling like we got a fair shake and had a memorable experience.

Ruthman wants to throw off limits in to the mix. Seems like you are complaining on behalf of your friends who don't come out because they feel like they can't be competitive? What do your buddies make of you - being a fireman with time to fish? Sorry, couldn't resist giving you a bad time Hope you come fish ABA this year. I'm sure you'd take my money more than once. I'm just a wannabe who lives 100 miles away and works a 9 to 5.

Robert F, you're my favorite guy on ncbf. Don't you live in Alabama or something? If you come out here you should fish an ABA Motherlode, the tacos are really good, you just want to get in line early so you don't miss out on the guacamole.

[Brian Ruthman]

Hey Robert is trying so hard to make stuff happen in the Motherload everyone should compliment him on that , he is a good guy and a great fisherman and goes the extra mile for all of us ! We need to realize also he can only do so much for all of us since he is working under the direction of ABA , i know he would be giving all of us everything if he could , heck he cooks for everyone at all his tourneys and that is a great effort .
He is just really passionate about the sport and wants everyone to show up and fish , sometimes he sounds a bit rough on the internet but in person he is not that way at all , he knows i like to tournament fish also so it is probably hard for him to realize i just cant make all the tournaments these days , mostly beacuse of my 4 kids and the cost of raising them when they have all of their activities .
Believe me when i say he is on our side , because he is a fisherman just like you and me , if i was going to fish a higher entry team tournament in my area (Motherload region) his ABA is the one i would be fishing .

[flipit]

Hey Robert is trying so hard to make stuff happen in the Motherload everyone should compliment him on that , he is a good guy and a great fisherman and goes the extra mile for all of us ! We need to realize also he can only do so much for all of us since he is working under the direction of ABA , i know he would be giving all of us everything if he could , heck he cooks for everyone at all his tourneys and that is a great effort .
He is just really passionate about the sport and wants everyone to show up and fish , sometimes he sounds a bit rough on the internet but in person he is not that way at all , he knows i like to tournament fish also so it is probably hard for him to realize i just cant make all the tournaments these days , mostly beacuse of my 4 kids and the cost of raising them when they have all of their activities .
Believe me when i say he is on our side , because he is a fisherman just like you and me , if i was going to fish a higher entry team tournament in my area (Motherload region) his ABA is the one i would be fishing .

Well then I can appreciate that, and if Rob(swimbait) is speaking up for this guy I gotta believe he is ok.Gotta say Ive always wanted to fish motherlode, but Manzo has turned me off. I hate hearing "Im the best" cause guess what, there is always someone better. Perhaps tone it down a bit, and speak only of what you do, not what others dont do. If ya dont have something good to say about someone you are better off ignoring it(your a company rep, act like it).This really goes beyond ABA and in reality it is your own business. I dont wanna hear any BS about you dont get anything, we all know TD's make money, and you should(within reason) if you are really passionate about the sport you(and all TD's) would cut off your cut at reasonable for a days work. Just my 2 cents, as Im looking for where Ill fish next year. I dont want to fish a bunch of circuits, so I take my time looking for a good fit, Im sure Im not the only one. Ill have to talk more to Rob, cause as it stands from your posts over the past year its not a good fit.

[Robert F]

Robert F, you're my favorite guy on ncbf. Don't you live in Alabama or something? If you come out here you should fish an ABA Motherlode, the tacos are really good, you just want to get in line early so you don't miss out on the guacamole.

hahaha. Thanks swimbait. I know there a ton of guys that I am NOT their favorite. You don't have to guess what I think about a subject. That's for sure. I do not live in Alabama, just visit there a lot. I bet if I wanted to move I could get a my expenses paid.

You guys beat me to the props for Manzo. Sounds like he takes his job seriously and I would love to fish one of his events. I have been known to drive a thousand plus miles to fish a Team event. Another great Nor. Cal. TD, Jason Bubier can vouch for that. Once again, props "other" Robert and good luck with your events.

[Brian Ruthman]

Rob , i wish i worked as a fireman i would have a ton of time to Pre-fish , but i design and build firetrucks M-F 7am-5pm .Right now that industry is very slow and we are all lucky to be working . That is why Marxmiller is always giving me crap on here , he works for our competition West Mark , i work for Hi-Tech. Its kind of a funny deal because my uncle works there also with him .
So we kind of rib each other on who builds the best firetrucks and such , i also tell my uncle to let him know i can catch them better just as a joke . I think It is funny that we both like to bass fish and do similar work .

[swimbait]

flipit, you gotta meet Robert in person. The internet doesn't always convey well. I mean, you can't taste the tacos through your web browser you know?

Ruthman, sorry got confused about the fireman thing. I'm probably just jealous I don't live closer to the motherlode lakes. Today, for example, would be a real nice day to be on Don Pedro. Instead I'm manning the keyboard. I bet damn Cooch is sitting on some opening at the Delta right now murdering stripers on big hamsters while I type this.

Robert F, if we were all sitting under the awning of the bathroom at McClure eating tacos after a long day spent catching 13.5 inch spotted bass that weigh .9lbs, we'd be getting on just fine I'm sure. I'd only be grumpy if someone won it with an 11 and a 9 on swimbaits and it wasn't me who got to net them for Nico

Oh yeah, back to the topic of complaining - I would like to propose a 3 fish limit and a $300 option for big bass. If you don't like my ideas, pound sand and drag worms.

[Cooch]

Cooch - Like you I was kinda over the idea of a 1 in 3 payback. For me it's all selfish right, because the way Nico and I fish we either suck and come in last place or we win. There's not a lot of in between, so who cares what 8th place pays right? I'd imagine you have the same view on things?

But thinking on it more I'm open to giving 1 in 3 payback a chance because if you draw another 15 or 20 guys, the first place payback will probably be the same as it was before. Could be a nice win-win kind of thing where the payback goes deeper but the top stays the same. Just speculating!

We're on the same page Rob. Swing for the fence or go back to the dug out and wait for that next at bat. That has always been my approach since I moved up from fishing club events and the old Hook tournaments in the early 90s. If I'm not tryin to win it everytime, mentally, I ain't headed in the right direction, why am I even there? Ya win a few, ya lose more, no one is gonna win em all, that's an accepted fact for me. It's not a formula that works for everyone, but I'm content with it.

As far as the payback thing, to me it's a big "IF". When ya already have something in place, and yer numbers are growing as it is, why mess with the "if' factor. Ya only open another "what if" door, what if yer numbers don't grow? Or, what if yer numbers do grow, and it had nothing to do with the change? Those guys were coming anyhow because they see larger fields, a growing circuit and a TD the anglers are happy with and support, they had no idea the payback changed, much less got drift of the pros & cons.

The brass at ABA made these decision on their own. They polled their TDs, and made the changes. They did not contact and poll their customer base. That in itself, I think was a bad move too. With all that said, my choice to not fish in this season's ABA team Delta Region is purty simple. I do wish Rodger the best, hopefully our debate here this week, has garnered interest and overloaded his field today!