GOP Blocks One-Year Unemployment Extension, Wants Spending-C

[fun4fish]

Typical GOP obstructionist chess play for their Bush tax incentives. Meanwhile there are probably what 30 million or more unemployed? should be a fun holiday for many.


Posted: 30 Nov 2010 09:44 AM PST

On Tuesday afternoon, Democrats called on the Senate to pass the Unemployment Insurance Stabilization Act under the expedited unanimous consent procedure. As expected, Sen. Scott Brown [R, MA], acting on behalf of all Republicans, objected and will force a full-fledged debate on the issue that will likely last several weeks and be rolled together with unrelated tax issues. Federal unemployment benefits expire today for millions of long-term unemployed workers.

The bill Democrats tried to pass today would extend federal unemployment benefits until January 3, 2012. Because its costs (approx. $54 billion) are not offset, there was never much of a chance that the Republicans would allow the bill to go through so easily. Republicans have repeatedly said they want to pay for unemployment benefits with corresponding spending cuts (something that’s never been done) before they’ll vote for it, and because the Democrats don’t have a filibuster-proof majority they have a god deal of leverage for enforcing their position.

Immediately after objecting to unanimous consent, Sen. Brown turned the table and called for unanimous-consent passage of a one-year unemployment extension that is fully paid for by rescinding unspent non-security appropriations. Democrats objected.

The most likely scenario at this point is that the unemployment extension will be added to a bill to extend the expiring Bush tax cuts. Obama said today that unemployment benefits were mentioned in a bipartisan meeting on the tax cuts. Sen. Max Baucus [D, MT], who proposed the one-year extension bill that was rejected today, will lead the Democrats in the tax cut negotiations.

[Ringer]

Typical lefty. Think the taxpayers can support everyone forever? If tax revenues are down by half and the government keeps spending unlimited amounts do you think you will be taken care of in the future? I doubt it will last much longer. I got a call from a friend in Oregon yesterday. I was talking about how unemployment need to be cut off at 26 weeks. He said his friend was getting it and had just sold his business for $2 million. He said he was going to do the same and fire himself from his one man corporation then close it down and apply. He is worth well over $2 million. I had a woman come into my business last week in a new BMW 500 series. She dropped off a resume and when I told her we were not hiring she laughed and said she just was picking up business cards to stay on unemployment and was not really looking for a job. People pay in a pittance to unemployment yet they are whining about deserving it for years. Many have no desire to work and most don't think they should give up the second car or the house or the internet and cell phones. I support it for the truly needy but they need to means test to prevent abuse.

[fun4fish]

Typical lefty. Think the taxpayers can support everyone forever? If tax revenues are down by half and the government keeps spending unlimited amounts do you think you will be taken care of in the future? I doubt it will last much longer.

So people on the right will pass it if they can get their tax breaks?

I got a call from a friend in Oregon yesterday. I was talking about how unemployment need to be cut off at 26 weeks. He said his friend was getting it and had just sold his business for $2 million. He said he was going to do the same and fire himself from his one man corporation then close it down and apply. He is worth well over $2 million. I had a woman come into my business last week in a new BMW 500 series. She dropped off a resume and when I told her we were not hiring she laughed and said she just was picking up business cards to stay on unemployment and was not really looking for a job. People pay in a pittance to unemployment yet they are whining about deserving it for years. Many have no desire to work and most don't think they should give up the second car or the house or the internet and cell phones. I support it for the truly needy but they need to means test to prevent abuse.

26 weeks in this day and age? So you know Bush extended UE benefits when the unemployment rate was at 4-5%. We are probably closer to 3x that realistically with the way the numbers are tallied (not counting UE claimants that expire or get caught up in the extension loop hole).

Yes, unfortunately there needs to be stricter regulation on UE benefits, but should the "truly needy" be penalized?

[Ringer]

No POTUS in history extended unemployment for this long. If they would do means testing and give the extension to only those with no assets I would back it. How many people do you think are loving the weekly checks and are not even trying to get a job? If they can make over $2000 a month for zero work they will not work. If the spouse has a decent job the other one does not deserve long term benefits. It is a safety net and is being abused on a grand scale. It is disgusting to me that Americans are so willing to scam the system for every nickel they can get. If they are truly needy that is a different story. I bet half of them would flip burgers if it was needed to put food on the table. My buddy paid in $7500 in unemployment taxes for himself in the last ten years yet he can get 99 weeks or $55000 with $2 million in the bank. Not right IMO.

[Ringer]

Bush extended unemployment for an additional 13 weeks. These clowns want to make it over 2 years. No way can the country recover spending that amount of money. Might work if you are willing to accept the Chinese flag flying over the capitol.

[Skeeterman]

I said it before and i'll say it again.Stop the unemployment checks and see what happens.F4F did not believe me before that these people are taking advantage.

[Ringer]

Maybe a few riots? Wonder why unemployment rates stay high? Maybe business doesn't feel they should pay to keep people on it forever. People always think they paid into unemployment insurance when in fact I pay 100% of the hit for all of my employees just like every other biz in America. If I have a claim my rates jump up for all my other employees.If I decide to not hire to avoid liability can you blame me? I am hoping congress refuses to do any more extensions. Let the cards fall and get this mess over.

[fun4fish]

No POTUS in history extended unemployment for this long. If they would do means testing and give the extension to only those with no assets I would back it. How many people do you think are loving the weekly checks and are not even trying to get a job? If they can make over $2000 a month for zero work they will not work. If the spouse has a decent job the other one does not deserve long term benefits. It is a safety net and is being abused on a grand scale. It is disgusting to me that Americans are so willing to scam the system for every nickel they can get. If they are truly needy that is a different story. I bet half of them would flip burgers if it was needed to put food on the table. My buddy paid in $7500 in unemployment taxes for himself in the last ten years yet he can get 99 weeks or $55000 with $2 million in the bank. Not right IMO.

No potus has faced this kind of situation.

Are you saying its right to barter with the Bush tax cuts for UE benefits while millions starve? That would mean even less tax revenue to help pay for a "public" program.

I know most people that are on UE are still struggling, $1800 (max pay in CA before taxes) is nothing and is just barely enough to stay a float while you make your capital liquid. This perception that there are mass amounts of people sitting high on the hog on UE is the same smear job the right has been using all over their media. Yes, something needs to be done about the exploiters but again at what cost? Can people flip burgers with a family of three or four people?

Bush extended unemployment for an additional 13 weeks. These clowns want to make it over 2 years. No way can the country recover spending that amount of money. Might work if you are willing to accept the Chinese flag flying over the capitol.

As funny as it sounds UE is actually one of the fastest ways to direct stimulus to our economy. People are not saving this money. Is this a permanent fix? heck no, but it keeps the tent count down (fear),allows people to prepare,and cushions the landing.

I agree there should be some talk about stopping UE at a certain point to give people piece of mind, but do they need to witness two teams play politics and get drug through the mud?

[fun4fish]

I said it before and i'll say it again.Stop the unemployment checks and see what happens.F4F did not believe me before that these people are taking advantage.

Are "these people" the same people that are on welfare,food stamps,disability,etc...?

[Ringer]

Unreal that anyone could actually believe taking money from working people and giving it to non working people or government employees can actually stimulate anything. If those peple were working for minimum wage and spending that money it would be stimulative. You must be a Nancy Pelosi fan to buy into that garbage.

[Skeeterman]

Ringer is right even if they are making minimum wage they would be paying taxes and saving taxes for not being unemployed and still be putting what ever they make back into the economy.

[Skeeterman]

Are "these people" the same people that are on welfare,food stamps,disability,etc...? About 85% of them to can go back to work too.I know theres ones that are truely disabled but most of them don't really need it.They just want to suck on the system for a free ride.

[StockOption]

Gee wouldn't have been AWESOME if the D's had majorities in both houses and the executive branch for the last 2 years? They could have passed whatever legislation they wanted, whenever they wanted, however they wanted.

Ohh wait they did - nevermind.

And they foolishly squandered this majority and passed very questionable legislation the MAJORITY of Americans did not want.

Only a completely ignorant fool thinks the R's could've obstructed anything the D's truly wanted passed.

Kudos to those on the Hill now doing what is right and necessary.

[fun4fish]

Unreal that anyone could actually believe taking money from working people and giving it to non working people or government employees can actually stimulate anything. If those peple were working for minimum wage and spending that money it would be stimulative. You must be a Nancy Pelosi fan to buy into that garbage

Can you raise even one kid on minimum wage?

Are "these people" the same people that are on welfare,food stamps,disability,etc...About 85% of them to can go back to work too.I know theres ones that are truely disabled but most of them don't really need it.They just want to suck on the system for a free ride.

LOL how did you come up with that number?

Gee wouldn't have been AWESOME if the D's had majorities in both houses and the executive branch for the last 2 years? They could have passed whatever legislation they wanted, whenever they wanted, however they wanted.

Ohh wait they did - nevermind.

And they foolishly squandered this majority and passed very questionable legislation the MAJORITY of Americans did not want.

Only a completely ignorant fool thinks the R's could've obstructed anything the D's truly wanted passed.

Kudos to those on the Hill now doing what is right and necessary.

I agree that the healthcare bill took on a different face, but you cannot deny the record number of filibusters the GOP's used to halt and leverage the system.

As for doing what's right sure we need to cut the fat in our govt, we need more monitoring of entitlement programs,but we also need to think about others and not just ourselves. Unless your in that top 10% we're all in the same boat.

[2ndsuks]

F4F,

Have you ever paid into unemployment insurance?

[Marty]

Can you raise even one kid on minimum wage?

Yes, My mother did – she only had a third grade education and raised my two sisters and me. She also owned her home! There were times she would work two jobs but she made sure my sisters and I would go to school, had food, and something warm to ware. She would get the next door neighbor to help us with our homework. And we had to have that house clean by the time she got home. To this day I still don’t like beans! But she loved us!

[Marty]

So people on the right will pass it if they can get their tax breaks?

First, it is not a tax break, it is a tax hike. Taxes will not go down but up if nothing is done. If something is done taxes will still be the same. So where is the tax breaks? You are so brain washed you don’t even evaluate the words you use.

[Marty]

As funny as it sounds UE is actually one of the fastest ways to direct stimulus to our economy.

What is even funnier is everyone quit their jobs to stimulus the economy! You need to get a different source for you cool aid!

[Greg_Cornish]

If you don't share your wealth and stability with the poor, the poor will share their poverty and instability with you.

[fun4fish]

F4F,

Have you ever paid into unemployment insurance?

Yes

Can you raise even one kid on minimum wage?

Yes, My mother did – she only had a third grade education and raised my two sisters and me. She also owned her home! There were times she would work two jobs but she made sure my sisters and I would go to school, had food, and something warm to ware. She would get the next door neighbor to help us with our homework. And we had to have that house clean by the time she got home. To this day I still don’t like beans! But she loved us!

We're not talking about when people drove covered wagons

So people on the right will pass it if they can get their tax breaks?

First, it is not a tax break, it is a tax hike. Taxes will not go down but up if nothing is done. If something is done taxes will still be the same. So where is the tax breaks? You are so brain washed you don’t even evaluate the words you use.

Bush's tax "cut" was a trip wire set to go off when he left. Maybe you should wash your brain.

As funny as it sounds UE is actually one of the fastest ways to direct stimulus to our economy.

What is even funnier is everyone quit their jobs to stimulus the economy! You need to get a different source for you cool aid!

Don't twist the context of my words.

[2ndsuks]

F4F,

Have you ever paid into unemployment insurance?

Yes

When was the last time you paid into it, if you don't mind me asking.

[Marty]

If you don't share your wealth and stability with the poor, the poor will share their poverty and instability with you.

Liberal’s redistribution will destroy the Middle Class bring them into poverty when it should be raising the poverty to wealth.

[Skeeterman]

Bush's tax "cut" was a trip wire set to go off when he left. Maybe you should wash your brain.You don't even know what your talking about.Do YOU even have brain?

[fun4fish]

F4F,

Have you ever paid into unemployment insurance?

Yes

When was the last time you paid into it, if you don't mind me asking.

about 8 years ago, your point?

Bush's tax "cut" was a trip wire set to go off when he left. Maybe you should wash your brain.You don't even know what your talking about.Do YOU even have brain?

breathe

[Skeeterman]

F4F,
If you know what your talking about explain what you said. Bush's tax "cut" was a trip wire set to go off when he left.

[2ndsuks]

So you paid into unemployment eight years ago, that would mean you owned a business eight years ago. I guess that's possible but you'd have to admit it's sounds very odd. Eight years ago the economy was strong and business was booming, by your own account your business stopped? In 2003 things were so good, a monkey could have owned a business and turned a profit!

[fun4fish]

F4F,
If you know what your talking about explain what you said. Bush's tax "cut" was a trip wire set to go off when he left.

C'mon are you serious?

How about a different angle? Say your mom (who's working two jobs) decides to leave for a week to swap roles with the Super Nanny. After arriving the Super Nanny tells you you don't have to mow the lawn this week or take out the garbage. Would you take to her knowing when mom came home you'd most likely be doing your chores because that's what you've been doing the last 5 years?

So you paid into unemployment eight years ago, that would mean you owned a business eight years ago. I guess that's possible but you'd have to admit it's sounds very odd. Eight years ago the economy was strong and business was booming, by your own account your business stopped? In 2003 things were so good, a monkey could have owned a business and turned a profit!

Even a monkey can answer his own question

[Skeeterman]

C'mon are you serious?

How about a different angle? Say your mom (who's working two jobs) decides to leave for a week to swap roles with the Super Nanny. After arriving the Super Nanny tells you you don't have to mow the lawn this week or take out the garbage. Would you take to her knowing when mom came home you'd most likely be doing your chores because that's what you've been doing the last 5 years?

WHAT?

[2ndsuks]

F4F,
If you know what your talking about explain what you said. Bush's tax "cut" was a trip wire set to go off when he left.

C'mon are you serious?

How about a different angle? Say your mom (who's working two jobs) decides to leave for a week to swap roles with the Super Nanny. After arriving the Super Nanny tells you you don't have to mow the lawn this week or take out the garbage. Would you take to her knowing when mom came home you'd most likely be doing your chores because that's what you've been doing the last 5 years?

And you say you were paying unemployment insurance eight years ago?
Dude, you were probably riding a Big Wheel eight years ago!

[Grumpy]

Whether right or wrong, call it what it is. Unemployment benefits come from an account your employer pays into under your name, the federal extensions are welfare. The employee nor his employer paid anything into this federal pool of money, it is basically a gift or welfare payed for by all taxpayers.

Millions of self employed have seen their business's flatline, they can't draw any unemployment benefits from state or fed. What about them?

[fun4fish]

F4F,
If you know what your talking about explain what you said. Bush's tax "cut" was a trip wire set to go off when he left.

C'mon are you serious?

How about a different angle? Say your mom (who's working two jobs) decides to leave for a week to swap roles with the Super Nanny. After arriving the Super Nanny tells you you don't have to mow the lawn this week or take out the garbage. Would you take to her knowing when mom came home you'd most likely be doing your chores because that's what you've been doing the last 5 years?

And you say you were paying unemployment insurance eight years ago?
Dude, you were probably riding a Big Wheel eight years ago!

I had to finger paint a picture sorry if that confused you LOL

Whether right or wrong, call it what it is. Unemployment benefits come from an account your employer pays into under your name, the federal extensions are welfare. The employee nor his employer paid anything into this federal pool of money, it is basically a gift or welfare payed for by all taxpayers.

Millions of self employed have seen their business's flatline, they can't draw any unemployment benefits from state or fed. What about them?

Yes it's "insurance" paid by the state and was extended by our govt.

If you look at the most civilized societies that have a "welfare" or dole system they generally spend a bigger percentage of their GDP. Whether it's jobseeker's allowance,temporary medical,educational aid,or housing aid we are below the norm. Despite the images most anti welfare believers think up of the recipients (white trash and minorities) the system is setup to keep poverty levels down and promote a better society. Do we need to have stricter monitoring? Yes. Do we need to cut off extensions at some point? Yes.

Believe me I take small businesses into consideration as well, it's just too bad that they are not counted along with the many illegals,and dare I say it ...cash employees. It's no mystery that it's all part of trying to control fear and to promote consumer spending. Monthly unemployment numbers are a sham that only report claimants not the above mentioned nor people that have fallen off or been sucked into the tier'd loophole. At least the local news is starting to report the tents popping up everywhere.

[Vince E]

"Call it what it is"
Good point. They call it Unemployment Insurance. That's BS. It's not insurance, it's redistribution.

There are things that are insurable and there are things that are not. There is also a definite line between risk pooling (insurance) and gambling.
If I take $100 from 100 people and promise to pay $9000 (hey I gotta eat right) to anyone in that group who is hit by lightning (it happens) then I am in the insurance business. On the low risk side of sure but it is still risk pooling. There is always risk to me if 2 people get hit and I haven't prepared for that such as evaluating actual risks and adjusting premiums accordingly. I still gotta eat and can't do that if I go out of business.

If I take $100 from 1 person and promise to pay $9000 to that person should an "act of God" type accident occur I am now gambling. The odds are set by the type of risks agreed to but it's still gambling.

If I take $100 dollars from any number of people and promise to pay them $9000 should they be unemployed I am creating a great moral hazard. I am creating a situation that will influence people's choices in action. Only the those with the highest standard of integrity would resist the temptation to deliberately act in a way that gains them the easy money and their reward for that (other than genuine dignity) is to pay for those in the pool who choose otherwise.
The overwhelming effect the "insured" can have on the outcome through relatively painless choices of action make unemployment an UNINSURABLE occurrence.

Same with health, outside of catastrophic accidents. Now there can be those willing to maim or kill themselves to collect but that is extreme and falls into the category of fraud in an insurable case.

Unemployment is a redistribution scheme with a huge built in moral hazard that will keep people form choosing work at a lower wage when that is all that is available. The incentive to work isn't the wage at that point, it's the difference between the dole and the wage which can vary from some degree of a cut to an actual increase! Tell me how THAT will ever help start the economy back up unless a bunch of high paying jobs magically show up. They won't. It has to start with low paying jobs and only when things get humming again will labor be bid upwards again.

The gamble is that enough people will have the integrity to choose to support themselves even at a pay cut or have an offer with a greater incentive than the dole-wage difference. What are the odds?

Calling things what they really are would make a big difference in the debates we find ourselves in and the policies that rise from these debates.

[fun4fish]

Unemployment is a redistribution scheme with a huge built in moral hazard that will keep people form choosing work at a lower wage when that is all that is available. The incentive to work isn't the wage at that point, it's the difference between the dole and the wage which can vary from some degree of a cut to an actual increase! Tell me how THAT will ever help start the economy back up unless a bunch of high paying jobs magically show up. They won't. It has to start with low paying jobs and only when things get humming again will labor be bid upwards again.

Calling things what they really are would make a big difference in the debates we find ourselves in.

Bleed the system right Vince? Just jump right in the tent or camper with the guns and dog so we can prosper sooner? Cut our losses and just ax all unemployment claims,disability,welfare,etc....? We all know on paper this will rebound the economy faster, but it will never happen without full blown anarchy. Have you followed the rise in crime statistics in the last two years? The people in bad neighborhoods are robbing people in the good neighborhoods(old school redistribution). No matter how big your gun is are you gonna out gun two or three guys that don't have a bagel to their name?

[2ndsuks]

Yes it's "insurance" paid by the state and was extended by our govt.

f4f I think you should stick to the debates you have a little knowledge on.

Unemployment is not insurance and it is certainly not "paid by the state"

It's welfare paid by employers.

Most employees and the uninformed like f4f think unemployment benefits are a fund that was accumulated from their withholding's, therefore they are entitled to it. They have absolutely no clue that it is in fact just another tax that is part of the payroll burden of their employer.
California employers pay into unemployment insurance that money goes into and is controlled by a state fund. When employees are laid off the state disburses those benefits directly to the unemployed. Because record amounts of Californian's are collecting unemployment benefits and the extensions exceeded the intended terms, the state fund ran out of money.
This forced California to borrow money from the feds (Obama Money) and now finds itself over 9 billion dollars in debt to the federal government.
Where will California get the money to pay down that debt, where else, our contributions have already gone up 23%!

[Vince E]

Fish-
The govt can't save us from that. It can only make the wave bigger when it finally hits YOU.
I'm on that list Grumpy outlined. My business is isn't enough to save our house and my wife is likely losing her high paying job next July.
I AM one of the people you just described but facts are facts. All of the emotion in the world won't change it.

Low paying jobs allow business to compete and that is the only thing that is going to stop the hell you just described from reaching EVERYWHERE.
So why don't you just help kill us all and go lobby for a minimum wage increase?

If you had been the one with your arm trapped under that rock you would have died because it was unfair for you to have to sacrifice your arm to live.
Well, maybe reality would set in at that point.

My arm is under that rock right now.

[Vince E]

But if you wanted a sequence of events that stood a chance....

Stop trying to prop up housing prices...rents will fall as a result.
Stop inflating and allow prices across the board to deflate. Foodstuffs (bagels?) will become much more affordable.
Stop propping up failing inefficient business through a myriad of govt regulations, licensing schemes, patents, tariffs, and subsidies....bankruptcy sales will free up resources at a discount to be used by more efficient new enterprises.
Eliminate minimum wage laws....labor will become affordable to business and along with the newly available resources many jobs will be created. Don't forget housing and food has dropped. REAL wages (real purchasing power) will not fall too much.

Let the economy start producing real goods for trade with other nations.
As the economy improves more labor of all skill levels will be needed. Scarcity drives up prices and labor will be bid up.


That's the skeleton view, there is a LOT of govt distortion in the economy to eliminate and outright govt waste of money that would be much better served as working capital in the economy but it gets the point across. To someone thinking with his brain and not his heart that is.

It HAS to happen this way. Nothing else will work.

[2ndsuks]

This is a simple one Mr.liberal f4f.

Take a look at Texas (a conservative state) and take a look at California (a liberal state) two of the largest populated states in the country.
Compare their unemployment rate, their taxes, their regulations and tell me which state is doing better during these times. Obviously I know you won't be honest, why, because you cannot bring yourself to admit that the ideals and policies you promote and support are a complete failure

[Vince E]

Oh, I almost forgot...

Stop trying to ram "green energy" down everyone's throat. If it is a good idea people (who ARE the market) will go there willingly eventually.
If "peak oil" is real energy companies will be looking at it and every other alternative because if we de-energize we are finished.
The hell you described will be as sure as shite as without energy we can't produce nearly enough goods to meet the needs of our population without energy.
Energy is absolutely necessary to our industrial economy and it needs to be cheap and not restricted to just the "politically correct" companies.
Let free entrepreneurs find the best solution based on peoples choices and stop trying to steer them.

Of course if a totalitarian-agrarian world is what you want, after much of the populations dies in starvation, conflict, and disease that should be what things settle down to on the road we are on. At least it will be green. Will it be fair? Not likely.

[fun4fish]

Yes it's "insurance" paid by the state and was extended by our govt.

f4f I think you should stick to the debates you have a little knowledge on.

Unemployment is not insurance and it is certainly not "paid by the state"

It's welfare paid by employers.

Most employees and the uninformed like f4f think unemployment benefits are a fund that was accumulated from their withholding's, therefore they are entitled to it. They have absolutely no clue that it is in fact just another tax that is part of the payroll burden of their employer.
California employers pay into unemployment insurance that money goes into and is controlled by a state fund. When employees are laid off the state disburses those benefits directly to the unemployed. Because record amounts of Californian's are collecting unemployment benefits and the extensions exceeded the intended terms, the state fund ran out of money.
This forced California to borrow money from the feds (Obama Money) and now finds itself over 9 billion dollars in debt to the federal government.
Where will California get the money to pay down that debt, where else, our contributions have already gone up 23%!

Typical right winger, exploit any loose thread possible to discredit and further any dialogue that smells of a solution. YES I realize the employer pays the first 26 weeks of UE I've done it! We are talking about 99 weeks and an extension!

Fish-
The govt can't save us from that. It can only make the wave bigger when it finally hits YOU.
I'm on that list Grumpy outlined. My business is isn't enough to save our house and my wife is likely losing her high paying job next July.
I AM one of the people you just described but facts are facts. All of the emotion in the world won't change it.

Low paying jobs allow business to compete and that is the only thing that is going to stop the hell you just described from reaching EVERYWHERE.
So why don't you just help kill us all and go lobby for a minimum wage increase?

If you had been the one with your arm trapped under that rock you would have died because it was unfair for you to have to sacrifice your arm to live.
Well, maybe reality would set in at that point.

I realize we're gonna hit bottom regardless Vince. Point is I don't think people can handle it all at once.

This is a simple one Mr.liberal f4f.

Take a look at Texas (a conservative state) and take a look at California (a liberal state) two of the largest populated states in the country.
Compare their unemployment rate, their taxes, their regulations and tell me which state is doing better during these times. Obviously I know you won't be honest, why, because you cannot bring yourself to admit that the ideals and policies you promote and support are a complete failure

Not comparable. California's cost of living is one of the highest while Texas is one of the lowest.

Oh, I almost forgot...

Stop trying to ram "green energy" down everyone's throat. If it is a good idea people (who ARE the market) will go there willingly eventually.
If "peak oil" is real energy companies will be looking at it and every other alternative because if we de-energize we are finished.
The hell you described will be as sure as shite as without energy we can't produce nearly enough to meet the needs of our population.
Energy is absolutely necessary to our industrial economy and it needs to be cheap and not restricted to just the "politically correct" companies.
Let free entrepreneurs find the best solution based on peoples choices and stop trying to steer them.

WTF? I thought we were talking about unemployment? when have you heard me talk about going green?

[2ndsuks]

Not comparable. California's cost of living is one of the highest while Texas is one of the lowest.

WTF? I thought we were talking about unemployment? when have you heard me talk about going green?

HELLO!

You have NO CLUE

[Vince E]

It should have been on the first list I made. Energy is crucial to an industrial economy. We were talking about the effects of a downturn in said economy were we not?
Actually it falls under this:

Stop propping up failing inefficient business through a myriad of govt regulations,

As far as handling all at once...how do you see not owning the facts to be preventing that?
Are you, along with all of the "top economists" in denial of how serious our monetary system is? Do you not realize that govt spending is directly related to that?
Do you not see the inevitable MAJOR crash coming?

What do think people are going to do when what little money they HAD is suddenly worth nothing?

[fun4fish]

Not comparable. California's cost of living is one of the highest while Texas is one of the lowest.

WTF? I thought we were talking about unemployment? when have you heard me talk about going green?

HELLO!

You have NO CLUE

Not even sure why I entertain your posts, but I do.

People flock to California whether it's business or pleasure. This has raised the cost of property over the years which in turn raised the cost of living. Opposite ends of the spectrum. Much like in DC, repug's in this state have held Sac hostage which has created gridlock. Is Texas better off with their policies? Yes, it's working for them. Would California be better of with Texas policies? Sure, but that isn't the reality and there are more strings attached on this end (corruption).

It should have been on the first list I made. Energy is crucial to an industrial economy. We were talking about the effects of a downturn in said economy were we not?
As far as handling all at once...how do you see not owning the facts to be preventing that?
Are you, along with all of the "top economists" in denial of how serious our monetary system is? Do you not realize that govt spending is directly related to that?
Do you not see the inevitable MAJOR crash coming?

What do think people are going to do when what little money they HAD is suddenly worth nothing?

You're right it is all related to spending, but you can't just take out a pair of scissors and cut everything out without seeing major upheaval. I understand you would rather pull the plug and see who can swim I get that.

[Vince E]

I don't think you do.

It's going to happen that way anyway. That is the point, it's the old "you can pay me now or you can pay me later" scenario.
You think some magic govt silver bullet is going to save the day but it isn't coming. Exactly the opposite, everything they do only makes the inevitable worse when it does reach full blown crisis levels.

They have been using people's natural tendency to let their compassion override their reason to enrichen the few at the expense of the many for, well, the history of representative democracy. A compassion that is mostly a projection of people's own fear of being the one in the situation inspiring said compassion, but not always.

My sister is one of long term unemployment recipients. As I already described my own pickle don't think I don't have a very close seat here. I just might be circling the drain myself and many of my family members too.
But reason must rule compassion and fear.

The fact is that govt spending enabled by bank inflation put us here. Govt regulations written by cartels for their own benefit have let the worst performers push real talent out of the marketplace. The marketplace is where all of the stuff we need for survival and comfort comes from. Stifle it and you starve us.

Doing more of the same is suicide.

[fun4fish]

I don't think you do.

It's going to happen that way anyway. That is the point, it's the old "you can pay me now or you can pay me later" scenario.
You think some magic govt silver bullet is going to save the day but it isn't coming. Exactly the opposite, everything they do only makes the inevitable worse when it does reach full blown crisis levels.

I never said anything about a magic silver bullet and I know our govt can't stop the inevitable. Point is you want to use a machete and I'd rather use a scalpel and allow people to get their head around things.

[Grumpy]

I never said anything about a magic silver bullet and I know our govt can't stop the inevitable. Point is you want to use a machete and I'd rather use a scalpel and allow people to get their head around things.[/quote]

Remember the line from the movie jaws, "Were gonna need a bigger boat" he was right and the boat sunk. A scalpel will not get it, forget the machete also were gonna need a full blown thrashing machine run right thru the middle of govt. programs. 20% cuts across the board, no sacred cows.

[Skeeterman]

Grumpy nailed it.Cut those damm progrms!

Remember the line from the movie jaws, "Were gonna need a bigger boat" he was right and the boat sunk. A scalpel will not get it, forget the machete also were gonna need a full blown thrashing machine run right thru the middle of govt. programs. 20% cuts across the board, no sacred cows.

[Greg_Cornish]

If you don't share your wealth and stability with the poor, the poor will share their poverty and instability with you.

Liberal’s redistribution will destroy the Middle Class bring them into poverty when it should be raising the poverty to wealth.

Do you define keeping jobs in the u.s. And paying decent wages with health benefits redistribution of wealth? Or is redistribution of wealth just a meaningless GOP buzz phrase you throw out there as a diversion?

[fun4fish]

Remember the line from the movie jaws, "Were gonna need a bigger boat" he was right and the boat sunk. A scalpel will not get it, forget the machete also were gonna need a full blown thrashing machine run right thru the middle of govt. programs. 20% cuts across the board, no sacred cows.

Point is a scalpel will give people time to prepare and not create widespread panic.

[Vince E]

A scalpel will only give polititians who survive by promising more entitlement time to retool their game plan.
It will allow a long drawn out process of huge confusing bills that will in the end just say one thing and do the opposite, as usual.

That's OK. It's coming to an end, one way or another.

[Skeeterman]

People flock to California whether it's business or pleasure. Your joking right?I don't know about pleasure but business.Business are running out of hear as fast as they can thanks to taxes and all other crap they have to put up with.