FOR ALL OF YOU SPOTTED BASS HATERS OUT THERE (FISH CHRIS)

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:21 pm

What happens when a fishery has a diverse food supply and moderate water temps throughout the year ?

Go to www.folsombassleague.com and take a look at the winning limit brought to the scales by Scott Singer and Randy Gee. Their limit weighed in at 21.86 lbs. and every fish was a big, fat and healthy Spot. The big fish was a 5.36 lb. Spot, but don't think that this was a Spotted Bass show, there were 5 Largemouths over 4 1/2 lbs. brought to the scales too.

Going back to the DF&G meeting about Oroville, the fish brought to the scales at Folsom in the last three tournaments held there (FBL, ABA & WON) all had awesome sized Spots in them, but there were great Largemouths too. It goes to show that if you mismanage a lake with a slot limit THAT DOES NOT WORK, you will get thousands of smaller than average fish. I agree 100% with whoever brought up the bait as a area to focus on, because they were right on the money. Folsom has the pond smelt,crawdads, trout and kokanee, but it is the huge population of shad that feed these fish. There are shad swimming the banks right now that are as big as your hand that have the ability to survive the winters out there if a big bass doesn't get them first. Oroville does not have this diverse food web and it has a slot limit that does not work and until these issues are resolved, expect small fish from there. Just my $.02 worth.

Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:58 pm

hey another one of my favorite topics on the NCBF

So Scott,
I don't mean to sound argumentative but how is Folsom being managed as a fishery to improve the size of the spotted bass? Are there actually things happening there that you believe are contributing to the large size of the spotted bass or is it just happenstance? It sounds like you are saying that Oroville is a poor fishery because of the slot limit, but do you think that people really keep any statistically relavent number of spotted bass at either of these lakes? It seems like to put a dent in the spotted bass population at any lake like Oroville or Folsom, you would have to catch and kill hundreds of spotted bass per week and I just don't think that is happening. I'm asking this sincerely because I don't know much about Folsom or how many spotted bass people catch and kill on a regular basis from either lake.

My attitude about spots is this...

If you want to catch spotted bass in Nor-Cal, there are tons of opportunities on large resevoirs with thousands of surface acres to catch them. If you want to catch trophy largemouth in Nor-Cal there are far fewer opportunities and most of the good lakes are very small. One of the primary reasons for this is the spotted bass. They aren't the ONLY reason but they're one of the very top most reasons.

Wouldn't it be a little more fair for the trophy guys if just a few of the big resevoirs didn't have spots in them. You know like maybe take away all of the spots from Berryessa, Folsom, Camanche, and New Melones, just so that us poor trophy guys could have more than one big lake (Don Pedro) to fish for strictly floridas? Even Don Pedro will sooner or later be overrun since the spots are in there now. This idea seems fair to me, but the sad truth is that virtually every major resevoir north of point conception has spotted bass in it now, and nothing will ever turn back that clock. One day places like Don Pedro and San Pablo will just be an old memory of a lakes that used to be good for big ones and that sure makes me sad.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:19 pm

Hey Scott:

I dont want to sound abrasive either, but proper fish management is much more difficult than you elude to. I know that you are trying to showcase Folsom, and rightly so.

Remember, each lake is a different entity and must be treated so when it comes to achieving management objectives. Biotic and abiotic interactions occurring at Oroville likely are not occurring at Folsom. If people would harvest sub 12 inch fish at Oroville, I know the quality would increase.

Now, how the spots at Folsom have maintained their quality through the years is a mystery (Id like to know how long spots have been in there vs how long they have been in Oroville); clearly the species assemblage in Folsom are in much better balance than at Oroville. Who knows how this has happened, could be due to a zillion things, who knows (I would also like to see the length vs age of spots at both systems). One thing for certain is that for the time being everything is fine at Folsom, including the current harvest regulation. However, 20 years down the road Folsom may turn into an Oroville, at which point something may have to be done. Cross your fingers that the spots in Folsom dont play their dirty little game of outcompeting and crowding out other black bass species.

One way or another, Ive always been amazed at the quality of fish in Folsom. Wouldnt surprise me at all if there is a 10 plus spot pounding crawfish in 2 feet of water as we speak.

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:23 pm

The Davis Lake Northern Pike eradication program is an example of how DFG removes a species from a reservoir. How do you propose they remove the spots from a lake like Berryessa or Folsom?

I suspect they're here to stay. Now, for the good news. You CAN have trophy largemouth and trophy spots in the same fishery. Folsom puts out lots of big LM every year and some go over 10 pounds. The "trick" to this accomplishment is simple. FOOD! Folsom has a balanced population of larger forage like the threadfin shad as well as the smaller "pond smelt". Folsom also get regular plants of trout and used to get regular stocking of small salmon. Oroville lacks abundance of any larger sized forage base. Result...stunting. Small stunted spots can thrive while larger species like LM get skinny and struggle.

If I could "manage" anything about Oroville, it would be to add large numbers of Threadfin Shad every year until a healthy population of shad could sustain itself. Sure, there are a dozen other issues too, but this single change could make an enormous difference.

Just my $.02

.....NaCl

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:51 pm

I dont know NaCl.

The bass in Oroville have plenty to eatincluding bluegill, trout, salmon, crawfish, and wakasagi. But, the biggest prey item for spots at Oroville may be themselves; dont ya think they eat their own fry.

Also, many studies have shown that too many shad in a system actually decreases the fertility of the system which ultimately harms bass populations (decreased survival of young, decreased growth rates, etc). Shad are filter feeders, and they compete with small bass for prey items; recruitment and young survival have been shown to be poor in systems with tons of shad (ok, dont get crazy with this one, it doesnt happen everywhere and Clear Lake is an example).

Its not a prey issue, its more complex than than that.

basshunter4u · Post by **basshunter4u** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:54 pm

I think what Swimbait was talking about was trophys from big lakes that trophy hunters fish in right? Right now with the floridas in most of the major waters in the state, the trophys these guys and myself are talking about are not the 10 lbrs any more. These guys and myslef are not looking for 10 lb bass rather 15+ bass. These are the fish that are more likely to be effected by big spotted bass populations. Most people dont realize how spread thin the DFG and other management programs really are. So if you go out fishing for bass and you catch a couple spots in Pedro, Berryessa, Etc go ahead and keep them but let the smallys and largys go.
My 2 cents

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:06 pm

I'm by no means suggesting that DFG try to eradicate spots anywhere. That's a completely naiive idea because it just won't work, anyone who knows anything about fisheries management knows that. Which is why I said "the sad truth is that virtually every major resevoir north of point conception has spotted bass in it now, and nothing will ever turn back that clock"

MIKE TREMONT · Post by **MIKE TREMONT** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:57 pm

I don't know why some of you guys have to draw these lines. I personnaly love to catch BASS period!
A couple of weeks ago it took over 17lbs. to win at Oroville and that was anchored with a 7+ Black. I was on some decent spots and all of the ones I caught were footballs. We wieghed 10.75lbs and were only middle of the pack!
The past couple of weeks at Folsom have also been awsome, and the wieghts prove it.
One question that was posed is are they (DFG) activley managing the spots. I would think not with all the financial shortcomings the state is experiencing, and thats probably a good thing with my understanding and personal experiences with SOME state employees.
I try to keep matters simple because that's all my pea brain can handle. Don't you think maybe these huge water drawdowns come spring time might adversley effect the Largemouth more than any single reason. The Largemouth thrive in the Delta and the stripers and everything else comes through there.
I can't tell you how mant times I've been fooled by a spot. My partner has heard "get the net, this is a good one" so many times that he hardly flinches anymore, just to find out it's another clone that pulled like 4lber.
I'm really grateful that we live in an area where we have such choices really close to home. I just really enjoy catching Bass and don't understand all the fuss.
Just a thought.

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:10 pm

It is very similar to that of Folsom. The major difference is the lack of pond smelt as a major part of the food web. There are shad in Pedro which is one of the reasons those fish are as healthy as they are, do you actually think that F&G has planted the numbers of trout and salmon in past years? I think not, trout and salmon plantings have SUPPLEMENTED lakes with already good fodd webs. Oroville on the other hand had a bad issue with diseased Salmon a few years back and that forage was severely missed for the bigger fish there. Like Dean has said over and over, FEED THEM SHAD AND THEY WILL GROW BIG.

Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:21 pm

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:22 pm

That's about the only way we, as anglers, can help the fisheries. Hmmmm...I might host a spotted-bass-fish-fry competition at Oroville next summer. Each competitor can cook up five spotted bass under 12" using his favorite recipe. Then, we'll have a panel of taste judges who will determine the winner. Lets see, 100 boats, 200 limits...we ought to be able to harvest 1000 little spots per event.

Just kidding!

.....NaCl

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:39 pm

Id win that competition Salty. If the south taught me anything, its how to make a mean fish fry!!

Calistar · Post by **Calistar** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:03 pm

Each competitor can cook up five spotted bass under 12" using his favorite recipe.

A tournament where its good to catch sub-12" fish? FINALLY a competition that I might be able to win!

MN · Post by MN » Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:47 pm

Well about all i can add is Nacimiento seem's to be getting better every year as far as size goes on these spotted bass.I was there about three week's ago and my best five would have pushed close to 15 pound's.

There arent a ton of food,mainly shad,in this lake not to mention the white's so is it the food,or lack of

One more thing i would rather catch spotted bass than largemouth any day.They fight twice as much,any know's if your looking for a good fight laremouth's are not the fish to fish for allthough it is addicting.

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:45 pm

21.86 lbs ? .......but didn't you say somebody got a big limit ? Okay, okay..... nice for Spots, but barely worth mentioning by Florida strain standards.

Fish

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:54 pm

When you said, "It's more complex than that", you said it all right there.

It's human nature to try to explain things in the most simple way, so that one can get ones mind around it....... unfortunately, there are so many situations, especially when dealing with fisheries, that have to do with a whole bunch of tiny factors, that all add up towards the final outcome, instead of one single large factor.

I think its complete luck of the draw that Folsom produces nice Spots...... and I still believe that if it did not have any Spots at all, it would produce a lot more quality Florida bass.

Oh well,
Fish

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:09 pm

Swimbait are you crazy? Take the spots out of Folsom?I have personaly been in the boat and seen a OVER 25lb sack of Spots Caught and caught one over 5 myself. Then a few days later Seen Bassman (Jeremy Anderson) put a largemouth over 10 lbs in the boat out of that lake!!! It is full of big fish leave it alone you can have the rest LOL LOL but Folsom is an AWSOME FISHERY!

Not to mention That 5-6 lb spot I caught fought harder then my 10lb 3 oz largemouth or any other largemouth 4-9 lbs I have caught. Just woundering why is there no Spot trophy hunters?

Biggest I seen caught was by Gary Watts on Oroville while we were pre-fishing for a West Coast Bass Tournament I posted pics actualy we thought it was a largemouth but the nutcases confirmed it was an over 8lb spot!!! I held the net for a long time on that one becuase the fish would just not give up! Could you imagine hooking a 14-15lb Spot? The fight would be AWSOME !

Not to mention after a cold front or harsh conditions them Largemouth can really JUST SHUT DOWN which makes for a long day I know I fish the delta alot , but them spots will bite! The last three weeks the bite on Oroville has been Awsome!!!! The Delta?

Come on dude leave the spots alone......LOL LOL LOL

Tight Lines Dom

Johnny C · Post by **Johnny C** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:21 pm

Why so many big spots this year???...For one the food chain is way up for one with all the high water last year and the big spawn..Shad yes, but also bluegill which two to five pound spots just love..I find them in the their mouth all the time..
Two, they are running so much cold water through the foothill lakes that the food chain and the bigger fish are much more shallow than normal and thus easier to catch..
Three, big spots are smart and fast...I see lots of them I can't catch. They fly up and look at the bait and just as fast there gone..
Four, I don't think that we have figured out how to catch them yet..But we will...
And one thing to remember..A three pound sppot is like a 6 1/2 pound florida..Do the math...My ten year old son had close to 15 pounds Sunday at Melones and it was fun..The largies will show up soon...When the bigger shad come shallow.[/img]

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:43 pm

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:55 pm

Dom,
I don't think you're reading what I'm saying.

-Rob

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:02 pm

Spots and smallies are great, but I like Largemouths the best. I like Stripers, Bluegills, Crappie... Cats.

Big Floridas are cool, but I enjoy a great Northern catch when it happens. Spots on the Delta always intrest me as well.

Big Florida/Northerns to all you guys.

A.G.

kb · Post by kb » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:14 pm

Let's leave that up to D.P. Lee and the guys at Fish and Game. WE can all sit here and pretend we know what the hell we are talking about but we are not biologist. Now before you go and blame DFG for managing the fishery look at the awesome fisheries we have in this state.

Delta and Clear Lake are two of the best largemouth fisheries in the country.

Shasta, Oroville, Folsom, McClure, Collins, Camanche are all great spotted bass fisheries and a few of those lakes have good populations of big largemouth.

How about Don Pedro and all the little lakes that guys like Chris fish over in the bay area.

When will we see the trophy spotted bass hunters come on to the scene? When will a guy only target spots over 6 pounds.

The last time I checked we are a bunch of guys that work alot of different jobs and not many of us know how to manage a fishery. We think we do but WE DON"T!!!!

Give the DFG boys a raise we live in the heart of the best bass fishing in the world.

Oh and you guys leave Folsom alone!!! It is screwed up, fishing sucks and you need to stay away and let us Folsom Rats just suffer with our miserable little overused lake.

FISHIN · Post by **FISHIN** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:25 pm

How many limits of Floridas have you seen top 21 lbs. at Folsom in January Chris?

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:48 pm

None at Folsom. But the way I took this thread, was not that it was such a big deal that this 21 plus limit was caught at Folsom in January, but rather, that it was a 21 plus limit of "Spotted Bass". Was that not this biggest point of the post ?

Fish

kb · Post by kb » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:10 pm

I thought you guys might like to know this information. from an archived article D.P. Lee wrote years back

From an archived articNorthern spotted bass, sometimes called Kentucky bass, were introduced into California from Ohio in 1033 and were first propagated at the Central Valley Hatchery located in Elk Grove. From there they were distributed to the San Joaquin, Tuolumne, consumnes, and Kern rivers and several farm ponds in Sacramento County. Subsequently, the species was introduced into the Feather River, however the only presently established populations are in the Consumnes and Feather rivers and Lake Oroville in Butte County/

Alabama spotted bass were introduced by the DFG into California in 1974 from Smith Reservoir, Alabama. Populations are now well established in Lake Perris, Millerton Lake. Since 1979 the DFG has made additional stockings with brood fish from Millerton into Pine Flat, Lake McClure, Kiaweah, Isabella, Folsom, Whiskeytown and Shasta lakes. Other introductions of Alabama spotted bass reared in private farm ponds in Sacramento Conty have been made into Folsom, Camanche and New Hogan.

Alabama Spotted Bass introduction:

Folsom Lake 1982 From Rancho Murietta Ponds 60 fish
1983 From Millerton Lake 12-17 inch 230 fish

Lake Oroville 1980 From Rancho Murietta Ponds broodfish 127
1982 Rancho Murietta Ponds broodfish 150
1984 Rancho Murietta Ponds 9-14 unknown #â€™s

Lake Shasta (Pit6) 1982 from Millerton Lake .25 to 3.5 lb 60 fish
Lake Shasta 1981 from Millerton Lake .25 to 3.5 lb 232 fish
1982 from Millerton Lake .25 to 3.5 lb 360 fish

Lake McClure 1982 from Millerton Lake Adult fish 343 fish

Mikey G · Post by **Mikey G** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:14 pm

Hey Kent, speak for yourself...some of us do manage fisheries for a living!!!!

Mike

kb · Post by kb » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:17 pm

Sorry guys they were introduced in 1933 not 1033.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:58 pm

LOL!!!

Johnny C · Post by **Johnny C** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:03 pm

For always living out Melones..Don't take my word on this lake, ask David Hill..He is a Folsom guy...I know you had a bad memory there in a BFL..Any way my friend, I like the peace there..Good luck with your show..

Colebass · Post by **Colebass** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:09 pm

We think we know about fisheries, but we don't!!

Mom and Dad, guess who's coming for dinner? Kent Brown and he's going to talk about spotted bass fishing in this miserable little over used Folsom Lake!! Don't fish it, it sucks!!

See you at havasu!

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:15 pm

yes, and that's a big one to be sure. I simply believe that Folsom would produce more fish like that if it didn't have Spots...... Although, speaking about Folsom specifically, the Spotted bass might not be having as big an effect on the quality / trophy Largemouths there, as they do in many other lakes. I just say that because Folsom seems to be one of those lakes which has maintained a pretty decent balance, in spite of the Spots.

If most other Nor Cal lakes with Spots, did as well as Folsom, I might not be so hard on Spotted bass.

Peace,
Fish

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:39 pm

I know Folsom has a lot of nice Spots, and a decent number of big Largemouths too. I too am very curious as to why Folsom (and some other lakes) do well, in spite of Spots, yet they completely mess things up at places like Oroville, and to some degree, Shasta.

Again, I think their are just so many variables within each lake, that the total answers will always be tough, if not impossible.

Fish

Triton Mike · Post by **Triton Mike** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:24 am

HEre in Georgia we have some similiar problems. Some lakes do very well with Spots and some get over loaded with small ones. I think we have narrowed it down to deep structure (submerged timber) and bluebacks and LOTS of luck LOL. Lanier is our powerhouse in spots and has a 14 inch min lenght. Lots of 20lb stringers of spots weighed in. Allatoona my home lake sounds like Orroville tons of smaller fish. 3lb Spot is a pretty good spot for Allatoona. Although 5lbers do show up but not often and mainly in the winter time of the year. West Point is not very good right now with the introduction of spots. WEst Point was the LAKE to fish back in the 80's for Largemouth. It's still got alot of largemouth but the spots are probably a good 70% of the fish population compared to 10% several years ago. It's been my experience that some lakes handle them better than others. But overall I haven't seen many lakes that can handle a population of GOOD largemouth and GOOD spots. Wheeler and Kentucky Lake would be the exception. The only reason they are the exception is due to the layout of the lake. WHeeler has bluffs and Canyons on either end of this LONG river system. At Midlake on Wheeler you got lots of grass flats and a few creek systems where the heads hang out. So the species is somewhat seperated. Also some nice smallies on either end of WHeeler was well. I will say that those little dink spots are very aggressive fish. They probably eat the dink largemouth which will prevent future genes of the bigger largemouth from growing. Just a few thoughts.

T Mike

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:16 am

Your right when you said >You guys are not biologists...... Let's leave that up to D.P. Lee and the guys at Fish and Game <

......which is why I go to guys like Dennis Lee when I want the best possible answers "if there are any".

Their is only two problems....... The Ca DFG is so completely buried in beurocratic red tape, that they can rarely accomplish a small fraction of what we would like to see. It's a shame too, as guys like Dennis Lee (who I have tons of respect for) could accomplish SOOO much, if they didn't have their hands tied.

And the other thing is, when I have spoken to Dennis Lee about Spotted bass, he tells me that (as has already been mentioned in this thread by 'non-biologists) the whole 'Spotted bass' thing is exceedingly complicated, with hundreds of variables, and their are few, if any hard and fast rules about how to manage them, or what effect they will have on any particular fishery.

And in case you missed it, I'll say it again...... It's a fortunate thing that Folsom, unlike many other lakes, has continued to be a quality fishery "in spite of the Spotted Bass". I think it would be great if the reasons for this could be solidly isolated.

Peace,
Fish

ryan pearson · Post by **ryan pearson** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:21 am

Comparing Shasta to Oroville in reference to fish size is like comparing apples nad oranges. The spots in Shasta are on the average much bigger. Right now it is taking 15-17 lbs every weekend to win, and as the late winter and early spring get going, the weights will get even bigger. I work close to the lake, and in the past month have heard of a 12 lb. largemouth, and many 5+ spots. Can we say the same for Oroville? I don't mean to bash Oroville at all, it's a great fishery to catch a lot of fish really fast.

I believe the introduction of spotted bass into Shasta in the 1980's was the best thing that could happen to Shasta. I realize Shasta once was a great largemouth, and smallmouth factory(was too young to actually fish but just going off old timers stories), but in the winter it was dead. With the spots you can fish year round for them and they actually become more fun in the winter when they group up and you can catch a lot in a small area. What it comes down to is some people are going to love fishing for spots, and some people are going to love fishing for largemouths, you cant really compare weights with the two, spots just don't get that big. But if you are looking to catch a lot of fish, and have the chance at a really scrappy, hard fighting 5+ fish then fish spots!

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:20 am

I hear you, and your absolutely right. Some people prefer smaller, easier to catch fish. Some people prefer the challenge of bigger, tougher ones.

Of course all fisheries are different, and I know Shasta, Oroville, and Folsom, are all completely different kinds of places, but I believe that Spotted bass have impacted each of them... to varying degrees. Shasta probably falls somewhere in the middle. Okay.... maybe closer to Folsom.

Peace,
Fish

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:11 pm

great post, we think a lot alike. You and Rob always, at some point, present a great challenge fer debate, that I at times can't hold back and must voice my $.02! This thread, is one of those times!

First, I have to agree with ya and boast, much to the shegrins of our greedy, spot hoarding Folsom Rat buddy KB

, Folsom is an awesome lil fishery. I've always said, it's the best kept secrete and bass jewel in the state. It has sustained a great population of big largemouth as well as spots and smallies. And it probably has done this, with ALL 3 species, better than any other lake in the state. I believe it can be, and IS, a great model to be used, in evaluating and building or putting BACK together, many of our other ponds where the spots have been introduced. I really think these spots were introduced, in an effort to improve already existing, poor conditions, where the largemouth fishery was indeed declining anyhow. Now, the focus is catching the spots, the largemouth git overlooked and silently begin to come back. Personally, I think that is what's happening here in California. Especially in our larger resivoirs, Oroville with standing. I don't believe for a minute that spots are the cause for a decline or improvement in any one fishery.

What those cause and affects really are, the intricacies that make Folsom tick, I'll leave up fer the specialist ta figure out. I hope and pray they can find a way to git the funding out of the perverbial black hole our beloved state elected official have so righteously and blatantly stuff our warm water funds into, and keep from us. We have a fine group of biologists in place. As we both know and agree, their hands ARE tied, and it's a cryin shame.

What I will debate and take offense too, is two fold. First, and the easiest to address is ya putting Shasta in the same catagory of or below Folsom. My friend, you are so dead wrong here. Yeah sure, the big spots are on the prowl at Folsom right now. December and January are the two prime months to catch these big spots up there, versus any other time of the year. But Folsom is a far cry from the spotted bass fishery that exists at Shasta. There is NO WAY, this pond has the number of 3-8 pound spotted bass that reside in Shasta. You go talk to the locals who quietly fish Shasta and keep it to themselves, next to maybe Perris, Shasta is the premier Trophy spotted bass lake in California, period.

Which brings me to my second issue in this thread. I absolutely resent the comments of those who think and feal, that a 15 pound hybred florida large mouth bass, is the only trophy bass we should have or are the ultimate game in this state. It's a holier than tho attitude, that depicts the selfish, tunnel vision these trophy largemouth hunters in this state seem to have. Who are they ta claim, that the 15# or above largemouth trophy is the king of trophies? A 6 pound spotted bass, or a 6 pound smally, is the equivelent of that 15# bass they chase, by comparison. Geeze, just take a look at the numbers. A 15-21# bass is easy to catch by comparisons. Just look at the numbers and list in "Tater" Batisti's last article "Giant Bass" from the WesternBass.COM archives that was up last week. You will not find a list like that for trophy Spots or Smallies. Why, cause they ain't as readily available, or as EASY to catch as their largemouth cousins.

It really droops my shorts ta listen to guys come in here and whine about the spotted bass and how it's hurting the trophy bass fishing in California. BULL Droppins! The proof is in the numbers, trophy largemouth bass in California are EASY! And there are so many more ponds and places to catch them in this state, than there are Spots or Smallmouth. What about us guys who want to catch a trophy Spot or Smally? We got maybe 3-4 lakes in the entire state to have an oppurtunity to do this. Give us, and our trophy bass, the same due respect that you want for your beloved, easy to catch 10-20# largemouth.

I would love to see how these guys fare chasing and solely focusing on a true trophy Smallmouth or Spotted bass. The Lord knows, as well as those of us who have had the chance to catch a teen largemouth and a 6 pound smallie or spot. The battle with a big largemouth, is anti-climactic by comparison to it's smaller trophy cousins. There will be no trophies sitting there in plain site on a bed to irritate till it finally takes yer bait. There will be no chucking or trolling a trout looking lure, hours on end, waiting for that one bite every day. It is a far more difficult task, catching a trophy spot or smallmouth. And as a true "Trophy" Bass fisherman, I get FAR more satisfaction and exhilaration after battling a trophy spot or smallie, than I ever did with a largemouth. I doubt that any of these trophy largemouth guys, could spend a year chasing these trophy spots and smallies, and come up with 1/10 of the numbers as they do, with the Largemouth in a year. I believe, the trophy largemouth guys, deep in their hearts, are just a bunch of egotists. They are simply after that $1 million dollar tag that comes with catching the next worlds record. They are in love with the fact they can see their name in print all the time. They are in love with seeing themselves in pictures with a giant bass. They are in love with boasting their numbers of bass of 10 pounds, 15 pounds, what ever. They are in love, with being recognized as the "Guy who catches big bass". I know this to be true, and will be the first to admit it. Same thing with the tournament guys, the vast majority of us are driven by our egos to catch bigger fish more consistantly than the next guy and win that tournament. For any of us to deny this, well, we sit here and shamelessly watch our noses grow! HAR!

My point here is, to say the introduction of spots into our lakes, has damaged our trophy fisheries, is a hoax. Hell, our lakes weren't trophy fisheries in the first place, how could they have been damaged by introduction of spotted bass? They are only trophy lakes, because we claim them to be, simply because, we catch bigger bass out west than the rest of the country. More trophy largemouth are comming from lakes all through out this state, than ever before. I'll point to Pedro as proof. Seems over the last 5 years, with the introduction of spots by the way, look at the number of giant largemouth we are seeing up there today. There are far more other variables, as you have illuded to, that are affecting our fisheries as a whole. Finger pointing to the spots, is the least of our worries. Our fisheries, ARE getting better.

I fail to see what all the fuss is about? I say let's keep dumping spots into our trophy fisheries, I'm more than ready to start adding all them 10 pound spotted bass to my egotistical list of catches! HAR! HAR! HAR!

Cooch

Curadodude · Post by **Curadodude** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:22 pm

Shasta seems to still produce a decent largie now and then. There was a 12 sumthin last week, and I heard of a few over 10 last year, as well as the 8.12 I had last year. I think that there are still a few in there.

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:43 pm

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:37 pm

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:06 pm

You can hit them with a multitude of words, but I don't think I will need so many. Here's a couple of points to ponder;

Of course it's okay if a 5 lb Spot means more to you than a 15 lb Largemouth, but then of course that puts you in a very tiny minority of the anglers in Cali, or even across the US.

And "egos" you said ? Of course I can only speak for myself on this one. But how about the fact that I am maybe the least competitive person one might ever meet ? Probably a big part of why I never cared to fish tournaments. Or about the fact that I constantly tell guys that anybody could catch the numbers of big fish that I do (or more of them) or the size of big fish that I do (or bigger). Their is certainly nothing special about me, except maybe my level of passion, and commitment to trophy bass fishing. The bottom line is, the only guy I ever strive to outdo, is Fish Chris.
So about egos...... are you sure that's a PC monitor in front of you ? Or might it be a mirror ?

Luv' you too buddy

Peace,
Fish

So I'll say it again; Spotted Bass are having a negative impact on a lot of Largemouth fisheries in Cali....... not just with 15 lb plus giants, but even with numbers of nice 3 to 6 lb quality tournament fish.

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:01 pm

I really appreciate your positive attitude. And I agree with your point about keeping things simple.

My whole reasoning, and basis, for my opinion on Spotted bass is that there have just been a lot of lakes, which used to produce tons of nice 3 to 6 Largemouths, with a good shot at a 5 lb Smallie, but since Spots were introduced, you'd be lucky to catch "a single" 3 to 6 lb Largemouth..... and good luck on the 5 plus Smallie.

I just don't know how much more simple I can state it. Spots often have a negative impact on the quality of a Black bass fishery.

Peace,
Fish

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:10 pm

Yes, I like those Northerns a lot too, although they seem to be devasted even quicker than Floridas, with the introduction of Spots

And for anyone who thinks I care nothing about any bass which is less than 15 lbs, what would they say if I told them, I know of 3 great Northern strain lakes, and I would not want to see 'Florida bass' introduced into those lakes either ?

Peace,
Fish

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:27 pm

sure know how ta make me laugh! If'n ya wanna play debate, let's be sure we quote each other accurately! HAR! I never mentioned anythin about 5 pound spots, heck, like 10 pound largemouth, them is a dime a dozen and I've caught my fair share.

Now a 6 pounder and above, much like a 15 pound largemouth, is much more ellusive. You bet, a 6-9 pound spot floats my boat these days! But more importantly for me, I love teaching guys how ta do it. Showin em how ta enjoy and catch those bigger bass, no matter which of the three we're chasin. That's my true joy in fishing, it really ain't about me catchin em. Not that I won't sing and dance the day I break that 15, or better yet, 20 pound barrier with the largemouth.

I think in todays bassin' world, you are mistaken about this.......

very tiny minority of the anglers in Cali, or even across the US.

I'm willin ta bet it's a lot wider spread than "tiny minority".

So about egos...... are you sure that's a PC monitor in front of you ? Or might it be a mirror ?

Let's be very clear my friend, I have no problem admitting my egotism, and did so openly in my post. It's the rest of ya'll bass addicts that is in denial! HAR! HAR! HAR!

So I'll re-iterate my point, Spots have been introduced into many northern California lakes, mostly in part, because the largemouth fishery was declining in the first place! There are many other factors that out weigh the negative impact the spots may be having to our largemouth fisheries. You're blaming the spots for a condition that already existed before their introduction.

I do agree wholey with ya on the northerns, Man, I would just die if Hidden Valley or Lake Of the Pines ever got invaded by the Florida gene pool. What a great fighter, that most of California's anglers have never had the chance to fish for.

Cooch

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:53 pm

FISHIN

How many limits of Floridas have you seen top 21 lbs. at Folsom

Fish Chris

None at Folsom.

For a close up: http://www.coochsfishing.com/pages/folsompigs.php

Ya have seen one now! Stoltz & Cooch's 29 plus pound Folsom limit in December HAR! HAR! HAR! Granted, there is a 4.8 spot in this limit, but a 4.2 pound largemouth wasn't good enough! My understanding is in a another tournament the following day, Dave Rush's partner caught a 24# limit of largies off the same spot on Folsom. The largemouth are there, everyone spends all their time chasin spots and smallies! You know, that "tiny minority" ya spoke of! LOL

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:56 pm

haha I love it

We even got ol Cooch in here for a good hot thread. You haven't been baited in in a long time Andy and up until recently with the tourney payback post, neither had I lol. I'm just giving you crap because I know what it's like to get sucked in. Here I am right!

So I gotta take a minute to try to re-iterate my point. My point is not that spotted bass are all bad, or that having spotted bass lakes in the state is bad. In fact, it's just fine with me. My point is that as time passes, there are less and less lakes that DON'T have spotted bass in them. And the way things are headed, there will soon be no large resevoirs north of Pt. Conception that fish for florida strain LMB only. I think that's a shame. I wish the balance could be better. That was my point in saying - would it hurt if just 4 or 5 big lakes up here didn't have spots? There'd still be a dozen or more big lakes with plenty of spots for people to catch. If I'm not mistaken, there are no lakes in CA that have produced 18lb+ fish that also had an established spotted bass population. I happen to think there's a reason for that, and I happen to think that there's a reason why the lake record at Folsom and Berryessa is in the 16's. It's not science, it's just opinion.

Your comments about fishing for big spots are interesting to me but I guess that trophy spot specialists just haven't emerged yet, or the guys that are targeting them don't say much about it. If I could fish for some 6+ spots conveniently nearby I'd probably try it but I don't care how hard a spot fights, if I stick any 6lb fish on my swimbait gear, it's coming in the boat right now. It just doens't have the same appeal to me for some reason... There's a dynamic to hooking and landing really big largemouth that is just a much bigger adrenaline rush for me. Doesn't mean I'm any better than anyone else, that's just what floats my boat. In my life I've hooked 6 fish I figure were over 15 and I've only landed 3. That's some low odds, and that's what keeps you coming back because like I always say, the bigger they are - the better they are getting away

If I dumped a 6lb spot, I dunno ... I just wouldn't care that much. I caught a 6.95 spot once and it felt about like catching any other 6lber. If that's a messed up attitude, I dunno what to tell you, it's just me.

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:06 pm

I know how to make you laugh ? That's great, and you sir, have the same effect on me

In your first post you said > It's a holier than tho attitude, that depicts the selfish, tunnel vision these trophy largemouth hunters in this state seem to have. < Hmmmmm....... I believe you have been quoted as claiming to have caught somewhere around 100 Largemouth's over 10 lbs ? (you told me 75, but it's been a while) And your clients have caught as many more ? Geeeeez ! Your the real trophy guy ! That's WAY more than I have caught ! I've only caught 65 of 10 lbs or more....... of course the difference with mine and yours are..... well, here they all are (this is a hidden link that I have never shown on a public forum, of each and every one of my double digit bass, in chronological order, condensed to show 'only my' trophy bass, instead of mixed among the several hundreds of other anglers trophy catches, on my site)
http://www.trophybassonly.com/id94.htm

Am I proud of these catches ? Well heck yes I am. After spending as many thousands of hours chasing them, as I have, I think I have earned the right to be proud. But do I think these catches make me better than the next guy ? Quite the contrary. In fact, I tell guys all the time, exactly how they can do the same thing, if they so desire.

Yes, I like to teach people too..... I just do so by way of my website, my articles, dock talk, etc.

So you said > Let's be very clear my friend, I have no problem admitting my egotism, and did so openly in my post. It's the rest of ya'll bass addicts that is in denial! HAR! HAR! HAR! <

Hmmmmm. I guess the fact that you openly admitted to being egotistical, makes it okay ? Geeeez. I have never been known to pull any punches, and if I knew this about myself, I think I'd be the first to admit it. But the fact is, I'm a very humble guy. Heck, I can't even cast a baitcaster ! I get distracted so easy, it's a good thing I don't fish tournies, as you would all kick my but ! My hand-eye cooridination is completely whacked out..... it's long story, but trust me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But about the Spots, I'll talk with Dennis Lee again very soon, and get the latest update on the situation. If anything I have said about the Spots in this thread or others has been wrong, I will come straight here to admit it.

Peace,
Fish

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:47 pm

I will add this to the discussion. I have never caught a 10+. My biggest bass is 7 lb 15 oz.

ONe of my most fond memories is the day last year, that I was out on Folsom early tossing a Spook, and caught three clones. Allabout 2.5 lbs. each. A largemouth, a smallmouth and a spot.

I call it a Folsom Triple Play!!

I will say this. You have all expressed valid yet differing points. I, for one, would gladly have 100 days of doing what I describe above, versus 1 day of catching a 10 plus.

Having said that, I do hope and continue to fish to get one over 10. I know my day will come, but I am truthfully glad for the opportunity to catch the varied species that I have living in my "backyard".

Fish Chris · Post by **Fish Chris** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:58 pm

Yes, those triple plays are pretty cool

I've done that at Berry a few times.

BTW, Mr. Lee had told me that because of Berryessa's diversity of structure, and sheer size, the Spots were less likely to have such a drastic effect on the Large and Smallmouths there..... Which I am greatful for. That's my home lake....... and geez what a top end size that lake produces ! One of these days......

Oh, and did you hear about the giant Smallie caught from Berry last week ??? 5.9 lbs ! Whooo Hooo ! I heard it from a solid source, but that's all I heard..... Does anybody here know more ?

Peace,
Fish

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:11 am

One point that is being a bit lost here when we're talking about the spotted bass lakes is that the "king of the hill" spotted bass lake in the world is Pine Flat where Bryan Shishido set the world record with a spotted bass that was I believe weighed in at 10.27 pounds.

If memory serves that fish beat the world record that also came from Pine Flat and that lake has produced three world records since 1994.

Anyone of you big bass hunters would love to catch a beast like this, admit it, hahaha.

Just a side note.

sTony

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