Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Teams

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semipro
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Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Teams

Post by semipro »

As the tournament Director for the East Delta and Motherlode Angler’s Choice Pro Teams I would like to ask for an open discussion on what we (Angler’s Choice and myself) can do to increase participation in our tournaments. No filters, speak your mind! Constructive criticism is great, but don’t be afraid to bash all you want. I’m a big boy (in more ways than one!), I can take it!

This past weekend saw my tournament at McClure draw all of nine boats! Pitiful! But I appreciate every one of the teams coming out and supporting the circuit! The bite was great, wide open. Every team brought a limit to the scales. The fish were, to be expected. not on the huge size! On the same day, Robert and ABA drew thirty-nine boats at Melones!!!! Awesome!!! Every person I have talked to has told me that Robert puts on great tournament and this is obviously true. I have not fished one of Robert’s tournaments but I wish I could. The only reason I haven’t is personal finances have kept me limited in what I am able to fish for the last couple years and most importantly, schedule conflicts like this past Saturday.

I’m not looking for a strict comparison between ABA and Angler’s Choice, though that will be inevitable. I want to know what you like about any and all of the different circuits, the TD’s and the organizations. And more importantly, what you don’t like. Don’t hold back! This is not only for my benefit but the benefit of all the teams that fish any of the circuits. And hopefully this will lead to some positive changes to my circuits and others.

Thank you for taking the time to comment. I will respond to any comments that I feel I need to throw in my input!

Next East Delta tournament is January 8th, next Motherlode tournament is at Melones, February 5th.
Steve Marino
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flipit
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by flipit »

I think there are alot of reasons to pick one over another. Personally I think ABA and Anglers are the 2 best circuits in the area. CBC was also going on this weekend, some motherlode anglers were there I think. Generally when I choose a circuit to fish I look at 2 things. First is the TOC and prizes at the TOC, boat, motor, and then the available pay outs for the remainder of folks that finish well. Second is payout and numbers in the trails Im interested in. I only have time to choose one, and usually cherry pick some others. If I need to buy a membership I just dont cherry pick that organization. Good organization is important, some refreshments are an added bonus(donuts, coffee, hot dogs, for example) Give the guys something to hang around for, the awards are often diluted with very few anglers left hanging around. There is so much that can be done, its a business and needs to be improved constantly. THe anglers should be appreciated. When they feel like all you care about is their dollars they will go else where. Take a peak at Jason Bubier, Brian Linehan, and Robert and see what they are doing. Randy Pringle and Vince are also doing something right.

Things I dont like about either org(they are the 2 I usually fish) is way to many regions. Its out of control, and there are to many choices. Thats part of the reason for low turnouts. WON Bass just drew 5 boats at an event at Shasta. Id suggest the organizations take a look at WRL and the FPT. Develop a trail built around fewer trails, but on more bodies of water. For example, Delta, Berryessa, Clear Lake, Oroville. The mother lode has alot of lakes, and I like fishing there. However I get bored with it, and a trip to another place is more interesting and fun. With all the circuits in every area vying for the anglers dollars, tournaments almost every weekend is not realistic. We have family's and jobs. Your 2 regions could easily be combined to create one. The end result is huge TOC's that some feel are diluted. Each org should have no more then 5 regions in Nor Cal. Instead of drawing an avg of 24 boats maybe they would draw 60 or more. Other choices could incorporate 2 regions into one, and split the schedule between the 2, (Mother Lode-Delta, Delta-Berryessa, Clear Lake-Shasta, Oroville-Folsom) Most of those places each have there own region and dont draw big numbers..

I think the anglers have been saying all this for the past few years, so Im not saying anything new. I have not fished a single body of water or even area(like the mother lode) in many years. I prefer to get out and fish many places. All that said Ive been a AC angler for the past 9 years. This is gonna be my final year where I am. Next year is up in the air at this point, and it will depend on a schedule. Right now none of the orgs really offer something Im interested in other then the Pro/Ams and FLW. So if nothing changes I will move up to that stuff and just leave team stuff alone. I could add more, but Im tired of typing. :P
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bassmonkey
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by bassmonkey »

Semipro,
This goes for all the orgs, not just you. flipit has good points. Guys have been saying the same things for some time now and the orgs and TD's are still wondering why nobody shows up. There are too many circuits with too many regions with too many tournaments and not enough anglers out here in the west to support them all. I am not sure how many derbies went on last weekend here in Norcal but it was a bunch. Way too many if you ask me. This is not rocket science. Quit calling these events "Pro Teams" ( I don't see anybody making a living fishing 10 boat team tournaments) drop the number of tournaments in each region, eliminate some regions, or combine them. Lower the entry fees a bit and get more sponsor swag to kick down to help bolster the payback. The So Cal guys seem to hustling up stuff to give away, same with Mansor. Whatever happened to the raffles to get guys to stick around. Most of today's "Pro" team tournaments are podunk, lack luster, and un professional. I also can't stand the membership fees, late fees, insurance fees, lake fees, this fee, and that fee. WTF? Unfortunately this will all fall on deaf ears because nobody is willing to pack it in and go away for the beterment of the sport. And too few are willing to rise up and blow away the competition to force out the weaker TD"s and Orgs.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Robchik »

Hey Steve. I fished the first 2 events, and will fish the remaining 5, in the East Delta Region. I am really puzzled as to why there aren't more boats showing up. I would think the guys tired of travelling to Russo's would love the opportunity to fish Delta Tournaments from B & W. It could be schedule related. I truly do not enjoy winter Delta fishing. It could also be that one team is issuing regular beatings. It's amazing the roll Mark Daniels and Jamond Andrews are on. They're the team to beat.

Looking at the Northern CA tournament scene overall, I agree with a previous post that there are too many trails. Every circuit has a Division or Divisions where they fish 6, or even 7 times on the same 1, 2, or (if they are generous) 3 bodies of water. In the case of Angler's Choice they have 2 Delta Regions, that's 14 Delta Tournaments. Limiting a trail to a region or sinlge body of water might be a turn off to guys who might be relatively new to tournaments, because they see the same teams cashing checks, and even winning, on a regular basis. I like the concept of fishing multiple bodies of water and spreading the wealth. It is why I really enjoyed Future Pro. They had regular fields of 90 or more. Out of a 7 event schedule they typically fish only one body of water twice, usually the Delta, and the events have a great atmosphere.

I think something ALL Tournament Directors should do, is take a page from Brian Linehan's playbook. That guy hustled up some nice product to give away at his events in SoCal. Awesome stuff! Also, judging by their pictures, they seem to be having a genuinely good time.
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ripb8ts
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by ripb8ts »

I think conflicting dates in the same region with both orgs hurt. Might have been possible for each org to draw all boats had been on different dates. Who knows maybe the bite was better at one lake than the other. Having a tournament scheduled over the holidays may have been a factor too.

In my opinion, more teams may show if there was a dedicated trail for traveling teams(i.e NBW Pro Teams Schedule). I know many people would rather travel and compete on different bodies of water. Who knows, it may bring the teams that fish only 1 or 2 lakes to test there skills at other lakes and bring them out of the comfort zone. Just to many tournaments, coming from both orgs, on one or two lakes per region. With difficult times for some people fishing tournaments may not be an option this year. Some may have decided to step up and just fish Pro/Ams. With the cost to fish all 7 team tournaments, one can pay most of there entry fees towards a Pro/Am circuit.

I agree with Flipit. "There is so much that can be done, its a business and needs to be improved constantly." The extra effort that the TD's are doing for the anglers is showing in the turnouts regardless of org. Wether it be serving tacos, results with pics posted same day as tournament, and prizes awarded to those who participated in the event. They are acknowledging all the anglers support for that event.
JD
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Phil Burgess »

bottom line just too many circuts................ we cant fish em all........... even though i would love to.............. :D


not much you can do about that.......... just think if you to those 9 you had with the 39 at melones....... and bam not a bad turnout.............
ILL RIDE TO HELL AND BACK WITH YOU BOYS!!!!!!!!!!
Brian Ruthman
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Brian Ruthman »

Why dont you have the WRL team event the same day on the same body of water as the Pro team events , just pay two different fees . But post the weights on the same sheet , so when the WRL guys whip up on the Pro teams maybe they will gain more confidence and pay the extra money to fish the Pro team events and possibly win more next time . It would free up more tourney dates so you dont have a tournament on top of another circuit .
List the Pro Teams names in red and WRL teams in blue see how everyone finishes fishing the same day . Once a team cosistently beats the pro teams 75% of the time they move up to the pro team level for good . The whole money won per year before you move up is a joke .
I keep hearing that guys dont want to fish against certain teams and that is why they moved over to the rookie events and they are drawing all the boats , in a way they would be fishing against Pro teams just at a lower entry fee and it would give the WRL teams some bragging rights when they beat the Pro team , maybe giving them some confidence .
I have also been told that guys like the feel of fishing a tournament with alot of boats , it gives them the feel of fishing larger events like the FLW , so by combining the two you should have a larger field .
I think it might bring back some of the fun in fishing pulling us all back togeather as a group instead of separating everyone.:D
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Mike
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Mike »

Rookie Leagues killed team fishing. Why would a guy want to fish against the areas best when he can go fish against other "Rookies" and have a better chance at wining something even though only 1/2 of the money is being paid back. Its the orgs that are making money now, not the fishermen. There is not enough "Pro" teams to support those 50-80 boat tournaments any more. Team tournaments are a dying thing. RIP 100% bass......
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sTony
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by sTony »

Mike wrote:Rookie Leagues killed team fishing. Why would a guy want to fish against the areas best when he can go fish against other "Rookies" and have a better chance at wining something even though only 1/2 of the money is being paid back. Its the orgs that are making money now, not the fishermen. There is not enough "Pro" teams to support those 50-80 boat tournaments any more. Team tournaments are a dying thing. RIP 100% bass......
For a guy that has done pretty well over the years, you sure make out like these orgs are profiting handsomely, even given their drawing less customers, and at your expense. There's just something really bogus about your logic.

As for team tournaments dying, I wouldn't rush to write the obituary just yet. The marketplace has great way of making corrections. Granted, it sometimes comes slowly, but it'll happen sooner or later. And anglers will be there to support it.

Some of you guys just need rosier colored glasses to look through rather then the crusty old dirty pair you're peaking into the future with now.

That's what missing around here, gentlemen, a tad bit of optimism.

sTony
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by flipit »

Mike wrote:Rookie Leagues killed team fishing. Why would a guy want to fish against the areas best when he can go fish against other "Rookies" and have a better chance at wining something even though only 1/2 of the money is being paid back. Its the orgs that are making money now, not the fishermen. There is not enough "Pro" teams to support those 50-80 boat tournaments any more. Team tournaments are a dying thing. RIP 100% bass......

Mike, come on brother. Its not the rookie teams killing the Pro Teams. Take a look around, there are 1/4 or less rookie tournaments compared to Pro Teams. The market is flooded with Pro Team tournaments. East/West Delta? Give me a frikin break. How about one with alternating launch locations? No need for two regions. Oroville circuits?Wtf? GIVE ME A BREAK. The organizations are killing Pro Teams. Delta teams included, and I love the Delta. Its tournament fishing, not lake mastery. Fewer choices means bigger fields period. That why WRL and FPT are drawing, less choices. Im heading straight to Pro/Ams because I have no desire to fish one body of water, yes I fish the Delta a ton. Still like to test my fishing skills against others on all type of water.

Team tournaments are not dead. However an organization needs to pull their head out of their ---- and realize they are gonna be better off drawing more boats with less events. ( I will be fishing the one that does so) 2nd the season circuit needs to include at least 3 different bodies of water, and no more then twice on the same body.
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sTony
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by sTony »

Less is more. Live it and breath it in deeply. Less is more. Across the board. Less is more.

This is what I see as missing a bit from my experiences in USAC tournaments:

1) Not much fanfare or show at a weigh in. Be it Pro Team or Pro Am, these tournaments don't look much different, one from the other. They all kind of have a 'club' feel to them and not what I would expect from 'Pro' level events.

2) Not enough press, promotion or marketing of the tournaments themselves or of the anglers that fish them.

3) Back to the mantra - Less is more. Too many blah tournaments. Make 'em special and start doing so by not having nearly as many. Why fish this AC tournament when there will be another, maybe even run by AC, tomorrow.

4) Figure out that not everyone wants to fish competitively 12 months a year. Maybe take a winter break, start up fresh, with less events, in the late, late winter/early spring.

I'm not feeling all that well and that's the best I could come up with off the top of my head. Hope it helps.

sTony
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Mike
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Mike »

sTony wrote:
Mike wrote:Rookie Leagues killed team fishing. Why would a guy want to fish against the areas best when he can go fish against other "Rookies" and have a better chance at wining something even though only 1/2 of the money is being paid back. Its the orgs that are making money now, not the fishermen. There is not enough "Pro" teams to support those 50-80 boat tournaments any more. Team tournaments are a dying thing. RIP 100% bass......
For a guy that has done pretty well over the years, you sure make out like these orgs are profiting handsomely, even given their drawing less customers, and at your expense. There's just something really bogus about your logic.

As for team tournaments dying, I wouldn't rush to write the obituary just yet. The marketplace has great way of making corrections. Granted, it sometimes comes slowly, but it'll happen sooner or later. And anglers will be there to support it.

Some of you guys just need rosier colored glasses to look through rather then the crusty old dirty pair you're peaking into the future with now.

That's what missing around here, gentlemen, a tad bit of optimism.

sTony

You sure seem to have a hard on for me. When ever I post you make sure to jump in and disagree..... :?

It wasn't until recently that I found out that the TD get to keep up to $25 out of each entry that he draws and $10-$15 out of my membership. In a 40 boat tourney that's about $1200 that is coming out of the payback JUST to pay the TD for the day. Then there is the $$ for the TOC and the tournament org. that don't leave much to pay the anglers. We are pretty much just fishing for our option money back. That doesn't sit well with me. I'm all for them paying their staff, but $1200 a day seems a bit much. Heck he makes more than everyone except for 1st place and he don't even have to get wet! Pro team tournaments are in a world of hurt right now BT! And until someone brings back a 100% payback or all of the orgs ban together and stop raping the anglers, it will continue to go down hill.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by bryanmc »

First off Steve... Good idea, actually asking what the anglers like or don't like. There's a couple things that come to mind and I'm not going to point at any circuit, this is generic for all of them.

First, as has been stated a few times previously, there are just too many tournaments. Each organization should probably consolidate into 3 circuits, North, Central and South. No more 1 or 2 lake circuits competing with each other in a 100 mile radius. Maybe then the orgs could manage to not park events on top of each other, after all, their big excuse is always "there are only so many weekends". The problem goes away when there are 50% less tournaments.

Secondly, comped entries need to be paid into the pot by the organization. Sure AOY teams and staff teams should be compensated and that should be by having their entry paid, not excused. Too many times the payout is way off (especially in smaller tournaments) when out of the 10 boats that show up, 2 are AOY team comps and 2 are staff team comps and that money isn't in the pot, so the payout is based on 6 boats.

Lastly, I think you would get more participation with a lower entry fee. Lots of guys who fish club tournaments won't kick out $250 per team all in but they'd probably spring for $100 all in (90 + 10 big fish). 30 teams at $100 is better than 7 teams at $225 and the lower entry makes it financially easier for guys to travel.

Maybe one day all the tournament organizations will work together to improve tournament fishing, but odds are, they'll just keep trying to line their pockets individually until the sport collapses.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by dreyson »

I'm going to use my situation for an example. My money needs to be divided with the whole family, If I'm going to travel 6 or 7 times usually 2+ hours to a lake I'm looking for a family freindly lake. for me I need to get the family involved. If td's took a look at finding activities for the rest of the family to have a good time I could justify spending extra entry fees. I totally believe that the huge gap in tournament turnout over the years is because to many guys and gals forgot to involve there kids. so now we dont have the anglers we had only a few years ago
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Jim Moulton »

Steve
I'll pay your way into Roberts next tournament.
Jim
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by g-man »

Per Mike's numbers based on a 40 boat turn out I will gladly do it for 500.00, two tacos, and said donuts in the morning!! :P

Too many choices, and Anglers loyalty to there choice of Orgs. As someone said already, its like fishin club events. Thats cause the same guys fish the same stuff almost always. Zip coders, Cliques, etc! Most tourney anglers know each other in the org they are fishin, and thats a comfort zone hard to break! Less Orgs equals bigger fields!
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Big Lambinski
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Big Lambinski »

Steve I can suggest a couple of things.
1) What were / are your expectations when you fish tournaments?
2) Be transparent about everything financial. Let all those involved know what your expenses are, what you spend on marketing, what you have to match or contribute to get sponsors. Set aside funding for crew teams and AOY’s. TD’s just like marketing professionals have to buy a few dinners and drinks to seal the deal. As you well know many anglers are smart, tough and love to Bit%# and moan.
3) Listen albeit whining and moaning it probably has merit.
4) Make the entry fees reasonable say $150 for each team all in ($100, $25 BF, $15, and $10). ($150 usually equates to $250 for travel and gas, plus another $100 for each pre-fish weekend, plus $100 at the bait store; really equals $450 per tournament)
5) 80% payback is reasonable as long as you are transparent about what the 20% is being used for.
6) Know that your participants are your sales staff. Good feedback and referrals are what are going to make the circuit successful.
7) How do you reward your participants?
8) What is the mousetrap that keeps them coming back for more?
9) Schedule 7 various water bodies. I want a chance against the guy who knows his back yard pond.
10) Schedule tournaments when the fish are biting and the sacks can be HUGE. No one goes to baseball games to watch a pitching dual. Homeruns are way more exciting.
11) Networking and mixers. Did you ever stop and think or notice that the majority of the participants are in the construction or construction related industries. If there were two to three dinners a trial there would possibly be a boost in camaraderie and competition.
12) Look to the highly publicized and promoted “Pro” tournaments, what makes them tick.
13) Prizes, snow cones and bubble gum are for the kids. Make it worth something or don’t raffle anything.
14) Family, Family, Family we all have them make 2 or 3 tournaments at family friendly locations, or have family stuff to do. (Bounce houses, hot dogs etc.) I would forego an end of tourney dog if my kids had something to remember while watch dad bring in his catch.
15) KEEP IT EXCITING…….
I am an avid competitor a novice angler and a realist. There is nothing finer than a brisk morning on a pristine water body to rip some lips, and have the chance to earn a couple dollars. We fish to relax and have fun, we enter tournaments to compete relax and have fun.
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semipro
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by semipro »

bryanmc wrote:First off Steve... Good idea, actually asking what the anglers like or don't like. There's a couple things that come to mind and I'm not going to point at any circuit, this is generic for all of them.

First, as has been stated a few times previously, there are just too many tournaments. Each organization should probably consolidate into 3 circuits, North, Central and South. No more 1 or 2 lake circuits competing with each other in a 100 mile radius. Maybe then the orgs could manage to not park events on top of each other, after all, their big excuse is always "there are only so many weekends". The problem goes away when there are 50% less tournaments.

Secondly, comped entries need to be paid into the pot by the organization. Sure AOY teams and staff teams should be compensated and that should be by having their entry paid, not excused. Too many times the payout is way off (especially in smaller tournaments) when out of the 10 boats that show up, 2 are AOY team comps and 2 are staff team comps and that money isn't in the pot, so the payout is based on 6 boats.

Lastly, I think you would get more participation with a lower entry fee. Lots of guys who fish club tournaments won't kick out $250 per team all in but they'd probably spring for $100 all in (90 + 10 big fish). 30 teams at $100 is better than 7 teams at $225 and the lower entry makes it financially easier for guys to travel.

Maybe one day all the tournament organizations will work together to improve tournament fishing, but odds are, they'll just keep trying to line their pockets individually until the sport collapses.
Just one response here - In my tournaments, the payout is based on the total number of boats. Angler's Choice pays the basic entry and the team has to pay for the options.
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semipro
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by semipro »

Mike wrote:
You sure seem to have a hard on for me. When ever I post you make sure to jump in and disagree..... :?

It wasn't until recently that I found out that the TD get to keep up to $25 out of each entry that he draws and $10-$15 out of my membership. In a 40 boat tourney that's about $1200 that is coming out of the payback JUST to pay the TD for the day. Then there is the $$ for the TOC and the tournament org. that don't leave much to pay the anglers. We are pretty much just fishing for our option money back. That doesn't sit well with me. I'm all for them paying their staff, but $1200 a day seems a bit much. Heck he makes more than everyone except for 1st place and he don't even have to get wet! Pro team tournaments are in a world of hurt right now BT! And until someone brings back a 100% payback or all of the orgs ban together and stop raping the anglers, it will continue to go down hill.
Mike -

I don't know what organization pays their TD's that much, but I certainly don't make that kind of money! Also, I have to buy my own trophies and pay for any help I receive (currently my team partner, so it goes towards the entries for the tournaments we fish), plus any other expenses like postage and supplies, etc. Trust me, I'm not making any money on these tournaments, in fact I'm in the hole on both of the last two tournaments!
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semipro
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by semipro »

Jim Moulton wrote:Steve
I'll pay your way into Roberts next tournament.
Jim
Thanks Jim!! Unfortunately, I'm running an East Delta tournament on January 8th. But I could always use "first out of the money" certs!!!! How about we talk?
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by TRUFISH »

Steve, I think u r doing a great job on the east delta tournaments. I do believe that AC has too many delta circuts. They have the east, the west, and the extreme. that is 3 different circuts on one body of water. I believe fisherman do not like to fish around the dead of winter (late dec thru jan) and 6 hr tournaments. I believe your payback is fair. I just remember the good ol days of Stockton Bass (john miller and Ken langer). In their heyday they would have 60+ boats and all in was about $120, they were open tournaments and everybody fished them. I sure miss those guys. But anyhow Steve keep up the good work, and Ryan too. :D
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by ash »

bassmonkey wrote:Semipro,
Quit calling these events "Pro Teams" ( I don't see anybody making a living fishing 10 boat team tournaments) drop the number of tournaments in each region, eliminate some regions, or combine them. Lower the entry fees a bit and get more sponsor swag to kick down to help bolster the payback. The So Cal guys seem to hustling up stuff to give away, same with Mansor. Whatever happened to the raffles to get guys to stick around. Most of today's "Pro" team tournaments are podunk, lack luster, and un professional. I also can't stand the membership fees, late fees, insurance fees, lake fees, this fee, and that fee. WTF? Unfortunately this will all fall on deaf ears because nobody is willing to pack it in and go away for the beterment of the sport. And too few are willing to rise up and blow away the competition to force out the weaker TD"s and Orgs.
I remember when I first started fishing in Won bass and NBW there were no "Pro Teams" there were just team tournaments, all in was 100 each very doable for a rookie like me, back in the day and today. Lower the entry fee and offer a broad range of Option monies - this concept allows one to fish within thier budget. I also agree that there way too many events I wouldnt mind paying double that for half the number of events - gives me a chance in between tournaments to become a better angler and pursue other options.

I also agree that Membership fees and late fees are BS and need to go, heck you may entice some guys that are on a heater to come over and fish your events. Open the books - pure and simple - no offense but I personally cringe when I hear orgs and TD's state they dont make any money, if that is the case why do it and why are there so many orgs doing it for the sure glee? I find this answer to be suspect, and makes me question where are the tournament fees and late fees going to, its definatly not the payback pot.

I COMPLETLEY understand that a busniess by design is in it to make money, your time is valuable so make money; just be up front about where the costs are going - instead of making the money on the backend take a rake off the top - allow the sponsor advertisement dollars to trickle into the field so we are not just competing for our own cash.

Raffles, prizes and giveaways - keep gys around for the weigh in, this builds comeraderie and competitivness. Give your anglers a media outlet to speak from so that thier sponsors see a value, even if this is a web page, blog, or social media. In todays "information technology area that begun in 91' Bass Fishing Orgs are last on the list to provide these outlets. Work together as organizations - perhaps some reciprocations are needed to support each other.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Champion Jon »

I would like a team tournament that goes to multiple bodies of water in the season. LIke the AC WRL format but without the restrictions of who can fish it.

It makes the AOY race a little more interesting to me when people have to fish outside of their comfort zone/home body of water.


Just my 0.02

Jon
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Hipster »

WOW Ash!!!!!!!!!!

Speak it baby!!!

Perhaps I saw all this crap coming so health reasons were just a easy outlet to say (no more Tournaments for me) HHHMMMMMMMM makes ya wonder cause I stiil love to feel that tugg on the line :D :D :D
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Brian Linehan »

I COMPLETLEY understand that a busniess by design is in it to make money, your time is valuable so make money; just be up front about where the costs are going - instead of making the money on the backend take a rake off the top - allow the sponsor advertisement dollars to trickle into the field so we are not just competing for our own cash.
I wish it was as easy a lot of people think. Allow the sponsor advertisement dollars to trickle into the field so we are not competing for our own cash? Quite simply, sponsors don't have cash. And if they did, it wouldn't be directed to team events to sweeten the pot. If you can find me a sponsor who will, please let me know so I can call them and add them to my regions. The fishing industry and its multitude of retailers/maufacturers are hurting just like the rest of us and in my opinion, it's naive to think that they aren't.

Lets face it, fishing is gambling. When you play blackjack at the casino, do you ever ask the pit boss to "open the books" to see how much money they are making? As far as some orgs, they are keeping money out of derby to pay for the boat/motor that you are fishing for in the TOC's.

TD's are making anywhere from $15-$30 per boat depending on the organization. $15 isn't a lot of money considering that a basic entry can be $175. It's a lot of work and I think the anglers appreciate it provided that they have a director who works for them.

No drama guys, just something to think about.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by atwaterbassfisher »

Myself and a friend of mine have been on a good bite at McClure and were considering fishing that tournament. At the end of the day, the price tag was just too steep. I imagine you don't have much control over the fees but the $150 mark seems to be the magic # when it comes to tournament fishing. The membership fee is a deterrent as well. $90 in membership fees for my friend and I to fish a tourney was just too much for us. I hope this helps.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by bryanmc »

Brian Linehan wrote:
When you play blackjack at the casino, do you ever ask the pit boss to "open the books" to see how much money they are making?
Bad analogy Brian... There is no "rake" at a blackjack table, however, there is on a poker table and the "rake" is prominently posted.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by flipit »

Brian Linehan wrote:
I COMPLETLEY understand that a busniess by design is in it to make money, your time is valuable so make money; just be up front about where the costs are going - instead of making the money on the backend take a rake off the top - allow the sponsor advertisement dollars to trickle into the field so we are not just competing for our own cash.
I wish it was as easy a lot of people think. Allow the sponsor advertisement dollars to trickle into the field so we are not competing for our own cash? Quite simply, sponsors don't have cash. And if they did, it wouldn't be directed to team events to sweeten the pot. If you can find me a sponsor who will, please let me know so I can call them and add them to my regions. The fishing industry and its multitude of retailers/maufacturers are hurting just like the rest of us and in my opinion, it's naive to think that they aren't.

Lets face it, fishing is gambling. When you play blackjack at the casino, do you ever ask the pit boss to "open the books" to see how much money they are making? As far as some orgs, they are keeping money out of derby to pay for the boat/motor that you are fishing for in the TOC's.

TD's are making anywhere from $15-$30 per boat depending on the organization. $15 isn't a lot of money considering that a basic entry can be $175. It's a lot of work and I think the anglers appreciate it provided that they have a director who works for them.

No drama guys, just something to think about.
Brian

!5 to 30 $ per boat is alot. On a 20 boat field thats between $300 and $600 for a day. Draw 100 boats and, well, hummmmppphhh. Sponsors do have dollars, lets not kid our selves. Its going somewhere, but not the field. I dont mind that part. However you have done a great job providing some sponsor product at your events. WRL has a new Big Fish sponsor and its a great deal, a shot at 2 rods and reels for big fish prize, there is contigency, but its available. Some of the orgs have the ability to be much more successful, but they are not thinking straight. I know how to bring in more sponsor dollars as do many others. They just are not doing it, to much tunnel vision. Some org is gonna pick up on it and they will surpass the others. It can be found in BASS and FLW's programs. FLW is based on sponsor dollars. Its the upper management thats not doing what they need if they cant come up with sponsor dollars.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by littlebailey »

If we lower the cost you may gain some but i promise you will lose just as many. Its not worth the gamble at a certain point to those who make money. I think this is why we have a rookie league. Problem is they took all the guys that dont think they can compete as well. Just a thought.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by mm »

Back in the day of 70-100 boats, there weren`t as many circuits and for damn sure there wasn`t a "rookie" league taking perfectly able teams away from the real deal.
I beleive there are many teams fishing "rookie" events that can and need to move up.
How about "pro" events lower their entry from around $300 all in to about $200, and stop all "rookie" events. Maybe that reduction in fees and the lack of "rookie" events would help with the turnouts.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Steve Reed »

In my opinion there is no one answer to the question you are posing. I think the first step is to look at the region. You have an all delta schedule which is something I like, I actually do like an all one lake tournament series as an addition to a traveling circuit. Identifying who your customers are isn't as easy as it sounds.

Region...
You launch out of B&W which means you won't draw the "East Bay" guys and the true delta rats that launch out of the oakley area. They don't want to travel to fish at another ramp when next weekend they have a tournament on the delta at their same ramp. So your anglers are from the Sacramento area east and Sacramento area South down the 5. Think about the largest number of anglers in that region, I'd say as a whole the highest density of bass fisherman from that area would be the motherlode guys and in the instance that their is a motherlode tournament the same day it will be hard to take those anglers. Those guys are dedicated motherlode fishermen and they support their own very well.
The Sacramento guys then have a choice to make, do they travel an hour or further depending on whether they are greater sacramento, folsom, el derado hills etc for a small draw tournament. I would assume many would choose to stay away and use that weekend for folsom, clear lake, or oroville. Additionally, there might be a tournament in that region on that day as well.
Finally you have your guys that are going to fish that region because they love the delta and they are close enough to justify heading to that tournament. Those guys might be the modesto guys and those are the guys that you hope are spreading the word.

Time of year and tournament dates...
There are a lot of people who are just recovering from the previous season. This early schedule is tough on anyone. After getting burned out on the last season it takes a while for some of us to get that "itch" again and this period usually serves its purpose. Also, this is a time of year where vacation is at a premium, tough justifying taking a day off for a tournament when the holidays are around the corner. Another thing to consider is that the largemouth bite isn't great this time of year so spot lakes like the motherlode offers and oroville offers are definitely more "fun" to fish for some. Another thing to consider is how financially difficult it is for someone to justifying risking 200 dollars of christmas gifts for their kids in a bass tournament, now although that risk is their all year the extra christmas pinch is a more immediate financial need.

The tournament dates can't be ignored. If you want to draw motherlode anglers you can't have tournament dates on the same days as motherlode region events. Not gonna help the cause. If there is a tournament on shasta, clear lake, west delta, oroville, or folsom you could still have more of a chance to draw that motherlode group. Think about the guys who you would want to draw and what their options are as for places to fish, if you were one of them who would you support.

Financial... Risk/reward, transparency, base price
If you want to draw more anglers then have more anglers at your last tournament, wait that sounds like a catch 22. That's because it is, but sadly many wait for a region to gain steam before supporting it. The early adopters are bold and need to be applauded for sticking with a low drawing region. Maybe find a way to reward loyalty and encourage growth with that group of 9 or 10 or 15. If you can show the potential of a big win you will start to draw the gamblers from the greater sacramento area that stick to clear lake or oroville. Little bailey is right. How much would you pay to travel to a tournament knowing you were only competing with 8 other boats for "gas" money.
I think transparency seems to be a trend, I honestly could care less. If I can't figure out where my money is going then that is my problem, each angler needs to analayze it themselves you shouldn't have to hand out a breakdown at every tournament. That said, if the anglers want it then maybe it's not a bad idea.
Base price is something I think can be toyed with to attract more anglers. Look at your anglers and then look at the anglers that aren't fishing your tournaments. Maybe you could start with a mild base price and have a few big option pools.

Promotion...
What kind of promotion is being done. I know what tournament directors usually get paid and it is in your best interest to get more boats, I actually think the anglers should be happy with this because it means you are solely responsible for your paycheck and you have an incentive to get more boats. So how about risking some of your own funds by doing some promoting, it may be a gamble for you but it could pay off. Distribute fliers, partner with a local tackle store and offer a few bucks per boat they get signed up from their store, get an email list going, talk with anglers at the rookie leagues and see what they want, even just talking to people you see on the water could help by sparking their interest. I think making people aware is the first step and then convincing them to fish it is second.

The extras...
Fishing tournaments isn't about the love of fishing anymore and because there is money on the line I can understand it, I never fished something I couldn't afford. I did however choose to fish certain events based on what I felt I got out of them before any winnings. At the end of the day there are more guys going home without a check than with a check, so for those anglers what are they getting. I love to fish and that would be enough for me, but when deciding between one event or another the intrinsic value I received was the deciding factor.

I think there are a lot of things you could do, but why not start by just thinking about why you like to fish a tournament. The common theme is that there are too many tournaments and that couldn't be more true, there really are and unfortunately this will even itself out eventually by some circuits not doing well enough to support itself. The question is will you be the one who improves and finds new pro teams and new ways to draw pro teams from other regions or will you be the one of the circuits that dies off.

I hope you make it because personally I think you are a really nice guy and that you just want a good circuit that anglers enjoy fishing.
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Joe Bruce
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Joe Bruce »

Bigger draws pay better. pick the best % payback and get everyone possible to go to that circuit. now that I can only fish 1 or 2 circuits I go for the best %. ABA & Nor-Cal are the best. not sure about the CBC % but the concept works. As for the numbers some went to the rookies others quit with the swimbait craze but mostly there's to many circuits. I maybe wrong but its my opinion AC is trying to conflict so as to put some out of business.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Levy »

Joe Bruce wrote: I maybe wrong but its my opinion AC is trying to conflict so as to put some out of business.
Nope you are exactly right.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by swimbait »

Two events on the same day. People are going to pick the event with the best draw and that's ABA in the motherlode. At least give yourself a fair chance by scheduling on a different day.

Look at what WON did for 2011 by scheduling the week before the FLW. Great move IMO. A smart move would have been to put your events the weekend before theirs. Anglers look at that and see a tacit acknowledgment that you don't expect to be the top drawing org in the region but that you want to work with that and get some boats at the events. You'd have probably gotten 20 boats if you did that.

Building a region takes time. I watched the good TD's at WON build their regions over several years. It seldom happened over night. Fundamentally, good TD's draw anglers, not the name of the org on the plaque at the end of the day.

I can remember driving through the parking lot at Clear Lake in 2000 with Mike Kennedy when WON drew 130+ boats for one of their pro/ams. Mike could barely get out of the lot because he was talking to so many guys along the way. Mike knew people's names and always had a word. That's an intangible that some people have and some don't. Same reason everyone loves Chris Jones. A guy could lose a lot of money in a tournament but if he got a handshake and a thankyou at the end of the day he might forget all about it. Stuff like that matters in gambling, er... tournament fishing.

Maybe we'll see you in the spring if dates don't overlap and fishing is good.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by 619 »

There are to many circuits. Someone with alot of cheese that likes to fish needs to buy all the different organizations and combine them...You think it is bad up north.. Sat 17 boats, Sunday 14 boats at DVL!!! Best this year so far was 35 the week before...No Good. Combine them and we have 66 boats.

We have 4 organizations trying to make there deal work on two lakes here in San Diego.

All organizations have good people trying to do a good job. Some do things better then others. The market is just saturated. Combine and take the good of all four and take over.

I will play the lotto this week..If I win how much will it cost me? In my opinion that's what needs to happen.

Guaranteed to loose a bunch of money. May never get it back. Has to be someone who is passionate and has mega cheese.
Last edited by 619 on Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Lynne »

Art, NBW had 56 teams on November 7, then 45 teams on December 5 at DVL. I think that the number were low at DVL last week because it is so close to Christmas.

Brian Linehan puts on an awesome event thinking outside the box to enhance the prizes for the anglers. Definately his numbers are going to increase 3-4 times in the springtime.

BTW...the Christmas card was precious. I always love to hear how the kids are doing and seeing them grow through photos is awesome.

Merry Christmas to you.

Lynne Peterson
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by 619 »

Merry Xmas to you too. Lynne
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Fast 492 »

Steve Reed wrote:In my opinion there is no one answer to the question you are posing. I think the first step is to look at the region. You have an all delta schedule which is something I like, I actually do like an all one lake tournament series as an addition to a traveling circuit. Identifying who your customers are isn't as easy as it sounds.

Region...
You launch out of B&W which means you won't draw the "East Bay" guys and the true delta rats that launch out of the oakley area. They don't want to travel to fish at another ramp when next weekend they have a tournament on the delta at their same ramp. So your anglers are from the Sacramento area east and Sacramento area South down the 5. Think about the largest number of anglers in that region, I'd say as a whole the highest density of bass fisherman from that area would be the motherlode guys and in the instance that their is a motherlode tournament the same day it will be hard to take those anglers. Those guys are dedicated motherlode fishermen and they support their own very well.
The Sacramento guys then have a choice to make, do they travel an hour or further depending on whether they are greater sacramento, folsom, el derado hills etc for a small draw tournament. I would assume many would choose to stay away and use that weekend for folsom, clear lake, or oroville. Additionally, there might be a tournament in that region on that day as well.
Finally you have your guys that are going to fish that region because they love the delta and they are close enough to justify heading to that tournament. Those guys might be the modesto guys and those are the guys that you hope are spreading the word.

Time of year and tournament dates...
There are a lot of people who are just recovering from the previous season. This early schedule is tough on anyone. After getting burned out on the last season it takes a while for some of us to get that "itch" again and this period usually serves its purpose. Also, this is a time of year where vacation is at a premium, tough justifying taking a day off for a tournament when the holidays are around the corner. Another thing to consider is that the largemouth bite isn't great this time of year so spot lakes like the motherlode offers and oroville offers are definitely more "fun" to fish for some. Another thing to consider is how financially difficult it is for someone to justifying risking 200 dollars of christmas gifts for their kids in a bass tournament, now although that risk is their all year the extra christmas pinch is a more immediate financial need.

The tournament dates can't be ignored. If you want to draw motherlode anglers you can't have tournament dates on the same days as motherlode region events. Not gonna help the cause. If there is a tournament on shasta, clear lake, west delta, oroville, or folsom you could still have more of a chance to draw that motherlode group. Think about the guys who you would want to draw and what their options are as for places to fish, if you were one of them who would you support.

Financial... Risk/reward, transparency, base price
If you want to draw more anglers then have more anglers at your last tournament, wait that sounds like a catch 22. That's because it is, but sadly many wait for a region to gain steam before supporting it. The early adopters are bold and need to be applauded for sticking with a low drawing region. Maybe find a way to reward loyalty and encourage growth with that group of 9 or 10 or 15. If you can show the potential of a big win you will start to draw the gamblers from the greater sacramento area that stick to clear lake or oroville. Little bailey is right. How much would you pay to travel to a tournament knowing you were only competing with 8 other boats for "gas" money.
I think transparency seems to be a trend, I honestly could care less. If I can't figure out where my money is going then that is my problem, each angler needs to analayze it themselves you shouldn't have to hand out a breakdown at every tournament. That said, if the anglers want it then maybe it's not a bad idea.
Base price is something I think can be toyed with to attract more anglers. Look at your anglers and then look at the anglers that aren't fishing your tournaments. Maybe you could start with a mild base price and have a few big option pools.

Promotion...
What kind of promotion is being done. I know what tournament directors usually get paid and it is in your best interest to get more boats, I actually think the anglers should be happy with this because it means you are solely responsible for your paycheck and you have an incentive to get more boats. So how about risking some of your own funds by doing some promoting, it may be a gamble for you but it could pay off. Distribute fliers, partner with a local tackle store and offer a few bucks per boat they get signed up from their store, get an email list going, talk with anglers at the rookie leagues and see what they want, even just talking to people you see on the water could help by sparking their interest. I think making people aware is the first step and then convincing them to fish it is second.

The extras...
Fishing tournaments isn't about the love of fishing anymore and because there is money on the line I can understand it, I never fished something I couldn't afford. I did however choose to fish certain events based on what I felt I got out of them before any winnings. At the end of the day there are more guys going home without a check than with a check, so for those anglers what are they getting. I love to fish and that would be enough for me, but when deciding between one event or another the intrinsic value I received was the deciding factor.

I think there are a lot of things you could do, but why not start by just thinking about why you like to fish a tournament. The common theme is that there are too many tournaments and that couldn't be more true, there really are and unfortunately this will even itself out eventually by some circuits not doing well enough to support itself. The question is will you be the one who improves and finds new pro teams and new ways to draw pro teams from other regions or will you be the one of the circuits that dies off.

I hope you make it because personally I think you are a really nice guy and that you just want a good circuit that anglers enjoy fishing.

Very good post, alot of good points.
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by blkdog812 »

Enough already. I am tired of seeing all of the whinning from some of you guys. I guess it just easier to get on here and complain then to do something about. kuto's semipro for trying.
You know what's really funny, it is how none of the really big whinner, have even tried to stepped up and run a circuit or help out a circuit with all of their suppose great ideas. All they want to do is take everyones money and bitch because they didn't get more.
There are really no team circuits around here that draw like WRL / FTP that guys can step up to after the rookie / semi pro leagues. Why would anyone want to put out big money for a small return and fish against someone who will usually only fish one body of water all the time?
There are alot of really good idea's posted here. let's see who steps up and who just continues to whine.
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AND LET THE PROBLEM SOLVE ITSELF?"
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by RMANZO »

hey steve...when i took over the aba motherlode, i was in the same boat..how was i going to draw the boats,,i had to contend w/you and won bass, and previous tds for aba motherlode really disappointed some anglers...the first thing i said to myself was, 'in the 25 years i have fished the motherlode, what were the things i liked and disliked about the different orgs??? i asked other motherloders what they liked/disliked about the circuits up here....me personally, i cannot stand to show up @ an event and pay a td $300 for an entry, and the td had not put "any" effort into setting up for the event..no sponsor banners, no nothing..feels more like an exspensive "turkey shoot"..i wish i could just pull up @ the lake sat. morning as a td, and take everyones $$$, blast em off, go home, and come back to weigh em in,give out checks, and go home, "done"!!! well, thank god i dont do that, otherwise my#'s wouldnt have grown...for each event, jamie and i usually set up on thurs(which usually takes a few hours)..sat morning after blasting everyone off, we go home and put everything in the computer, do the payback, cook all the tacos :D :D cut up all the chit to put on the tacos, make guacamole, and so on...from setting up on thurs. until the guys leave to go home on sat. we are non stop...it is alot of work, "BUT THE GUYS CAN SEE THE EFFORT WE PUT INTO IT FOR THEM, AND THEY APPRECIATE IT.
they just want to feel important and not just another team paying an entry...i listen to all the fools on here that say we make too much $$$ as tds,what a joke :P :P :P out of the $22 a team i make,i pay for flyers, sweatshirts/shirts for 1st-3rd @ each event, placques 1st-5th, food, beverages, now that times are tough and sponsors wont kick any product in, i buy it!! to give to the guys...."TOO MUCH MONEY. HA HA HA"... i do this for the love of the sport,(and the challenge of getting "EVERY" team in the motherlode to fish my aba :P :P ) and to give the motherlode guys an exciting, professional event to fish.... i really think it is going to be hard for you and the other org to regain the #'s you lost, which really sucks, cuz now i have nothing to fish here in the motherlode :x :x most importantly, do not throw an event the same day i am...i guarantee you would have had at least "5" more teams @ u'r last one(including me, because above all, "I AM A FISHERMAN")...especially w/mcclure being on fire right now.... hope some of this helps..
ps..the guy who is always bashing orgs for "raping" the fisherman, and for aba going to a 1-in-3, and he's not going to participate any more,,, "HERES U'R CHANCE" TO MAKE TONS OF $$$... START U'R OWN CIRCUIT, AND GIVE THE PAYBACK THAT YOU ARE ALWAYS WHINING ABOUT MISSING(100%).. come on, "IT'S EEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZ :P :P
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flipit
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by flipit »

Good post Robert. I agree with what you are doing $22 per boat is not much. The fact remains that most dont do that. Ive been to alot of those "expensive turkey shoots". :lol: Keep up the good work. Still hope to get up that way at some point.
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Mike
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Mike »

Great post RMANZO! Espically this part.

"me personally, i cannot stand to show up @ an event and pay a td $300 for an entry, and the td had not put "any" effort into setting up for the event..no sponsor banners, no nothing..feels more like an exspensive "turkey shoot"..i wish i could just pull up @ the lake sat. morning as a td, and take everyones $$$, blast em off, go home, and come back to weigh em in,give out checks, and go home, "done"!!!"


Because this is EXACTLY what goes on in my area. Sounds like you do a great job putting money back into your curcuit. I wish more would put out the effort..
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blkdog812
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by blkdog812 »

mike:
It wasn't until recently that I found out that the TD get to keep up to $25 out of each entry that he draws and $10-$15 out of my membership. In a 40 boat tourney that's about $1200 that is coming out of the payback JUST to pay the TD for the day. Then there is the $$ for the TOC and the tournament org. that don't leave much to pay the anglers. We are pretty much just fishing for our option money back. That doesn't sit well with me. I'm all for them paying their staff, but $1200 a day seems a bit much. Heck he makes more than everyone except for 1st place and he don't even have to get wet! Pro team tournaments are in a world of hurt right now BT! And until someone brings back a 100% payback or all of the orgs ban together and stop raping the anglers, it will continue to go down hill.
so why don't you tell us who's making this $!,200 or better.
last time i checked they only charged for membership once a year. if you are fishing an event that collects it at every event, dude your getting ripped off.
Never argue with an idiot; He'll beat you to death with stupidity.
I AM NOT SAYING THERE SHOULD BE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT FOR STUPIDITY,
BUT, WHY DON'T WE JUST TAKE THE SAFETY LABELS OFF OF EVERYTHING
AND LET THE PROBLEM SOLVE ITSELF?"
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Mike
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Mike »

Robert just said he gets $22 per team. His last tourney had 39 boats. Thats $858 plus he gets to keep $10 for every membership paid. The 1st tourney of the year most everyone has to re-new so thats another $780. So for that 1 day of work he pocked $1638 :shock: Granted the membership money is only once a year, but more guys come in a drop out so there is still a few extra bucks each tourney. If he buys shirts, hats, food, drinks and trophys out of His money then thats great. I'm just talking about my own area. Do you make $1600 a day?
OG on WB since 1993
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Marty
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Marty »

Dang Mike your are right, that is not enough money to go through trying to please everyone.
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Brian
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Brian »

Get Newby to bring back NewBass, Now that was the good ole' days............ He new how to run a tourney.
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Mike
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Mike »

Marty wrote:Dang Mike your are right, that is not enough money to go through trying to please everyone.



For $1600 a day I could care less! :lol:
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Andrew Jackson
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Andrew Jackson »

Unless you have been a TD before quit your whiny azzing. You don't have a clue what they have to do to run a circuit. $25.00 per team entry aint squat. With today small fields, in most circuits, they make under $20 an hour. The more boats obviously the better for them. I also know that some TD's put alot more into their circuits than others as well. These guys/gals do it for the "love of the game".
I am not a TD, I work with one, and would not want to be one. Behind the scenes is fine with me.
Robert F
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by Robert F »

blkdog812 wrote:Enough already. I am tired of seeing all of the whinning from some of you guys.
Andrew Jackson wrote:Unless you have been a TD before quit your whiny azzing. .
You're absolutely right. Everybody should shut up and let these guys finish ruining tournament fishing by themselves.......except Steve asked for suggestions and comments.

Seems like what is "usual" around WB is the same guys that have those special rose colored glasses keep telling people how and what they should feel. Maybe if more people put on their listening devices like Steve is doing, something will get fixed. Then you pollyannas can have your non-whiny world. Until then maybe the "shut-up" crew should take their own advise.
RMANZO
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Re: Open Invitation for Comments and Suggestions - AC Pro Te

Post by RMANZO »

Mike wrote:
Marty wrote:Dang Mike your are right, that is not enough money to go through trying to please everyone.



For $1600 a day I could care less! :lol:
mike, the first event, of every season, is definetely where we as tds, make "decent" $$$...w/the memberships, and finally, getting good boat #'s, that $1600 looks pretty good to ya eh??? now take into consideration i do this once a month, and without the membership $$$ after the first event, "40" boats makes me $880(minus all the chit i pay out of pocket) "ONCE A MONTH" :!: :!: WOULD YOU WORK FOR $400 PLUS DOLLARS A MONTH :P :P :P when i start pulling 60-80 teams up here( which i will ) then i will make an "honest" livin'......like posted before, i do this for the love of the sport, and, of course, a little profit makes anyone smile... also, i advertised to any team that is moving up from the "rookies", or any team that hasnt fished my aba motherlode since i took it over, a paid membership... i still had to pay aba for those memberships, so now i'm in the hole..... but like i said, for the love of the sport,it is worth it to me....to give all these fisherman up here something that has been missing for a long time...this is "SERIOUSLY" the funnest group of guys, and after "EVERY" weigh in, "EVERYONE" who entered the event, is around b-sing w/eachother laughin' havin' a great time.. giving back now, will pay off later, when all the teams that are still on the fence, show up @ my event :D :D :D i dont think you ever get off the river, but if ya do, come up here, and i'd love to take u'r $300 entry :P :P :P
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