PLEASE READ.....RULE ADDITION FOR NBW

Lynne · Post by **Lynne** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:00 pm

Effective immediately.....
16. FISH TRANSPORT:

Restricting natural movement of fish by any means such as but not limited to: use of nets, tanks or dams will result in immediate disqualification. Restricting access to waters normally accessible to anglers by any means such as but not limited to: felling of trees or placement of obstructions will result in disqualification. Transporting live gamefish taken in one area and releasing them in another area for the purpose of establishing a population in the new area during the practice period, during the tournament, or 30 days prior to the tournament is strictly prohibited and grounds for disqualification. Effective immediately, January 23, 2011, It shall be illegal to “seed” an area with live or dead baitfish or any other type of chum for the purposes of conditioning or congregating fish populations within 14 days of a National Bass West. Inc. sanctioned event. Such action by participants or third parties acting on behalf of participants shall be grounds for disqualification.

For the Lake Havasu, February 5, 2011, the rule shall start and be enforced from this day forward.

FYI....This rule is also going into effect for USAC starting on February 1, 2011

Any questions, please call me at 760-497-8238

Thanks and see you at El Capitan this Saturday and DVL on Sunday, January 30.,2011...(Wow January went by in a hurry didn't it!)

Lynne Peterson
National Bass West, Inc.

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:34 pm

Great rule change!
Guy Williams

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:03 pm

Some people sure push the envelope dont they!

jg · Post by jg » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:24 pm

Without adding names could you shed some light on what the activity was ?

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:41 pm

Great. Now what do I do with all the shad I've been rearing in my swimming pool?

mike goodwin · Post by **mike goodwin** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:36 pm

Great call Lynn, Justin, who else is going to step up........MG

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:07 pm

Hmmmm. I was wondering when this was going to come to the surface.

But for another discussion topic, where does it end? Planting brush piles? Dropping a can of dog food in an area to attract bait to a cove or a section of docks?

S. Bailey · Post by **S. Bailey** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:57 pm

well judging by the rumors that I have been hearing about myself and Billy Skinner . Im going to assume this rule is due to me . Im going to be completely honest and tell all of you that I have not done a thing wrong . I have never ever moved a fish or shad or bait to gain an advantage in a tournament by any means. I have been contacted and talked with all three orgs . Not only have I asked and begged to take a lie detector test , but am willing to take it at after weigh in in front of everyone. I have been waiting for this for 4 years guys . Just give it to me please. Ask me anything you want.

Justin Locatis · Post by **Justin Locatis** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:36 pm

Thanks MG but I can't take credit for it. This came from headquarters. Bill did ask me what I thought of it and I told him that I felt it was a good idea in hopes of eliminating the rumors. I just logged onto Anglers Choice's website and it has been changed a step further with us. Below is how the new rule reads with Anglers Choice.

16) FISH TRANSPORT: Restricting natural movement of fish by any means such as but not limited to: use of nets, tanks or dams will result in immediate disqualification. Restricting access to waters normally accessible to anglers by any means such as but not limited to: felling of trees or placement of obstructions will result in disqualification. Transporting live gamefish taken in one area and releasing them in another area for the purpose of establishing a population in the new area during the practice period, during the tournament, or 30 days prior to the tournament is strictly prohibited and grounds for disqualification. Effective February 1st, 2011, It shall be illegal to “seed” an area with live or dead baitfish or any other type of chum for the purposes of conditioning or congregating fish populations within 14 days of a USAC sanctioned event. It shall also be illegal to pre-fish 14 days prior to a USAC sanctioned event with live bait. Such action by participants or third parties acting on behalf of participants shall be grounds for disqualification.

Bill please feel free to ad anything for clarification that I may not have covered.

one fish wonder · Post by **one fish wonder** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:50 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxJ4fzQbcI

CN · Post by CN » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm

Sad,very sad indeed. I see Mr. Skinner is on line I would like to hear his input.

Mike Nance

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:10 pm

Justin Locatis wrote:Thanks MG but I can't take credit for it. This came from headquarters. Bill did ask me what I thought of it and I told him that I felt it was a good idea in hopes of eliminating the rumors. I just logged onto Anglers Choice's website and it has been changed a step further with us. Below is how the new rule reads with Anglers Choice.

16) FISH TRANSPORT: Restricting natural movement of fish by any means such as but not limited to: use of nets, tanks or dams will result in immediate disqualification. Restricting access to waters normally accessible to anglers by any means such as but not limited to: felling of trees or placement of obstructions will result in disqualification. Transporting live gamefish taken in one area and releasing them in another area for the purpose of establishing a population in the new area during the practice period, during the tournament, or 30 days prior to the tournament is strictly prohibited and grounds for disqualification. Effective February 1st, 2011, It shall be illegal to “seed” an area with live or dead baitfish or any other type of chum for the purposes of conditioning or congregating fish populations within 14 days of a USAC sanctioned event. It shall also be illegal to pre-fish 14 days prior to a USAC sanctioned event with live bait. Such action by participants or third parties acting on behalf of participants shall be grounds for disqualification.

Bill please feel free to ad anything for clarification that I may not have covered.

Great rule change!
Guy Williams

GKramer · Post by **GKramer** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:18 pm

Haven't looked at tournament rules in a few years, but let me make sure I understand this latest edict. I have to catch my fish with artificial lures only and I have to hook in them in the mouth. To locate them I can prefish with a camera as well as up and down and sidescan sonar, pH monitor, thermometer, Google Maps and the Internet, but can only use non-photographic electronics during competition hours.

However, a week before the tournament my grandkids and I can't soak nightcrawlers at the tournament lake?

I know you all mean well, but it won't be environmentalists or animal rights activists that doom bass fishing. No, leave that to anglers' own self-inflicted wounds.

Billy Skinner · Post by **Billy Skinner** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:21 pm

Here is my input on all of this. We are both all for the new rule. No problems with it. As for all the slander that is being passed around we feel that the only real way to clear our names is with the lie detector . We have dedicated our lives to this sport and work harder at it then most would like to believe. So the last thing we want is to lose credibility for what we have acheived. Lets do what ever it takes guys. Billy Skinner

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:27 pm

Billy Skinner wrote: We have dedicated our lives to this sport and work harder at it then most would like to believe. Billy Skinner

Billy to be honest, everytime I go to Havasu your truck is always in the lot when I get off the water. Trust me I know how much time you and Shawn spend on the water...

ash · Post by **ash** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:32 pm

upcomingpro1 · Post by **upcomingpro1** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:52 pm

So ive been hearing alot of people talking crap saying that billy and shaun are cheaters well i know personally that they are in fact NOT. First time i met billy was when i drew him for a pro am at mittry lake in yuma never met the dude before in my life. Ended up drawing him three times for the pro am that year. First tournament caught over 20lbs of fish with a 7 98lb kicker which alomost broke the 8lb pot. Second tournament i drew him was on the river ended up winning that one. 3rd tournament that i drew him we ended up chokeing finished horrible that day. Billy calls me up one day asks me if i wanted to fish the NBW in yuma April i think it was ended up taking 3rd with 18 and some change in that tournament. ive had the privlage of pre fishing and fishing with billy to know how much dedication and passion he puts towards this sport. He puts so much time on the water and pays his dues and all you guys just automatically hate and call them cheaters. Theyve been asking for the lie detector test and yet you refuse to give it to them. Why dont you just squash this right now and let them take it?? Are you afraid that (not if but) when they do pass it how stupid youll look?? I say give them the lie detector and squash this. This new rule is stupid and pointless come next tournament when they most likly beat u guys again what excuse are u going to come up with than? There not winning by cheating there winning because its what they do for a living they put there time on the water. If you guys put as much time on the water as you do acusing them of cheating maybe youll actually have a chance.

Ray Coleman · Post by **Ray Coleman** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:14 pm

I don't believe for a minute that either Bailey or Skinner EVER cheated. Why is it when someone hands your *** to you they must be cheating...I tend to believe they are just so much better than than the norm.
I've never met either of them but they aren't just good at Havasu, they are good everywhere. Let's not be so damn paranoid.
Ray

bassenvy · Post by **bassenvy** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:47 pm

Doesn't stating these rules on the tails of rumors "almost" prove there was/is a guilty party? Where's the judge and jury (lie detector)?

For the record my opinion is biased. Shaun has candidly told me the details of his bite over the course of his last 4 wins to better match the patterns they've been on. It's not one spot it's several, they even have to fish decoy patterns because they're followed. If I remember right just the other week when they won him and his partner caught 3 over 5 in front of a credible source. Do you have to knock the guy because he understands big fish movement better than most fishermen?

TomL · Post by **TomL** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:46 pm

I don't believe Shaun and Billy have done anything wrong. I don't think Lynne is accusing them either... at least I hope not and knowing Lynne she is not.

Here's my take:
You take 2 Great anglers and put them on the water 4-7 days a week and they are going to figure them out. They'll run the tables for a few months and then it'll slow down. They'll get on them again and run the tables again. I bet Shaun and Billy know every little nook and cranny of that place by now.

As for the new rule - How in the heck can it be enforced? Only a Polygraph can be used to enforce it. There are so many ways around that rule its not funny. Granted I would never break a rule - but, if someone wanted to stack a cove, a backwater, a slough etc. Whats to keep them from doing it? Especially on a lake that you can run 24/7. I love the concept behind the rule but, what good is a rule when its impossible to police or enforce? Rules keep honest people honest - cheaters find a way to beat the system period. They are always one step ahead and there is nothing we can do about it. Keep your eyes open and don't be afraid to ask questions - on the spot, not from the keyboard at home. One guy showed the right way to do it in San Diego... you want to stop a cheater, there's your blueprint. I bet Shaun would love to have an observer as long as they had amnesia to how they caught them at the end of the day - but, we all know fisherman talk - way too much! Apparently, we type to much as well!

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:21 am

It shall also be illegal to pre-fish 14 days prior to a USAC sanctioned event with live bait.

Where is it written in the DFG regulations that this practice is illegal? It's not, live bait fishing is a viable and acceptable way to catch fish, any fish. There are rules in every bass touranment org's regs, that clearly state we are not allowed to use "live bait" during the competition and/or official practice days, this has been acceptable for bass fishermen from the beginning. Who are we now, to impose on the free rights of fishermen, a limitation on how they can fish, 14 days prior to a tournament, when they are doing it legally? Every single angler today, has the oppurtunity to do this, right up to tournament day, so where's the advantage, so much so, than an org feels the need to impliment a rule such as this?

"Live bait" fishing is just a choice and option we all have. There are those who make this choice regularly, and get great satisfaction in utilizing this technique to catch fish, when artificial fishing can be tough. And then there are a slect group of narrow minded, tournament bass fishermen, who believe it is the worst thing in the world ta do. Why is it that we seem to always fall to the side and impose the will of such a small group of greedy, insecure, high horse riding tournament guys?

Bad rule, git's my vote.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:31 am

I think Lynne and Mike were kind of forced to do something, because rumors of cheating threaten to lower their tournament participation.
Havasu isn't the only trail they run.
Short of having a polygraph at every event, what else can they do?
But, unless people are willing to chip in for a polygraph test at eachtourney by paying, I'm guessing, an additional $15 per tourney, whatever it costs is going to come out of the pot, and then there will complaints about that.
Maybe $5 a tourney, and two random polygraphs per year per trail.
I don't know what's the answer, but I know not doing anything is no answer.
So give them credit for, at least, addressing the problem head on, instead of ducking it and hoping it will go away.
I'm sure there are better suggestions than mine out there from you guys who have fished tourneys for years.
Give Lynne and Mike, or Hutch, or Billy Egan, a PM and let them hear what you think might work.
They are all in the business of happy customers, so I'm sure they want to hear from you.
You don't need to PM John Barron. He has already engaged a security team, Smith and Wesson.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:42 am

Cooch wrote:
It shall also be illegal to pre-fish 14 days prior to a USAC sanctioned event with live bait.
Where is it written in the DFG regulations that this practice is illegal? It's not, live bait fishing is a viable and acceptable way to catch fish, any fish. There are rules in every bass touranment org's regs, that cearly state we are not allowed to use "live bait" during the competition and/or official practice days, this has been acceptable for bass fishermen from the beginning. Who are we now, to impose on the free rights of fishermen, a limitation on how they can fish, 14 days prior to a tournament, when they are doing it legally? Every single angler today, has the oppurtunity to do this, right up to tournament day, so where's the advantage, so much so, than an org feels the need to impliment a rule such as this?

"Live bait" fishing is just a choice and option we all have. There are those who make this choice regularly, and get great satisfaction in utilizing this technique to catch fish, when artificial fishing can be tough. And then there are a slect group of narrow minded, tournament bass fishermen, who believe it is the worst thing in the world ta do. Why is it that we seem to always fall to the side and impose the will of such a small group of greedy, insecure, high horse riding tournament guys?

Bad rule, git's my vote.

Cooch,
I think you're over reacting. The intent of the rule change is not to take people's freedoms away, it's to insure a level playing field.
That rule is for people who want to fish their tournaments. Any tourney organization has the right to make whatever rules they feel are appropiate for their tournaments.
As long as they are the same for everyone, and posted publically ahead of time, I think it's kosher.
If someone doesn't like the rules, and feel they want to fish live bait, or chum, they can just not fish that organization's trails.
That's freedom of choice.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:00 am

It's an interesting subject to be sure. Did the guys at the FW cup a couple years back "cheat" when they stashed fuel along the bank when they had to make a long run? Nope, there was no rule or law against it. To their credit, FLW made clear why they made the rule. Same thing with Don and Leon on the Delta. They found a way, within the existing rules to gain an advantage and used it. Again, no rules or laws were broken, and because FLW was open about it, everyone understood that there was no cheating involved but the organization wanted to close a loophole.

Unfortunately, when an organization creates a rule out of the blue, rumors start to fly. Did someone find an edge or an advantage not covered in the rules, maybe. I would ask the organizations to be a little more open about what they know or think was happening to cause this rule to be implemented. I'm not asking for names, I don't think anyone is, but it would be nice to know what happened to cause this.

As far as prefishing with live bait (and I can't remember the last time I actually used live bait for anything other than ice fishing years ago), I think that one is way over the top. It's a perfectly legal method of fishing and your addition of this rule, without any background, will I'm sure cause more rumors to start.

I hope the organizations involved will clear this up for everyone. There's way too much speculation going on.

captjohn71 · Post by **captjohn71** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:05 am

WOW, sounds like the same B.S. as always. A couple guys start winning they must be cheating. You give a guy like Shuan unlimited access and pretty much unlimited time to figure out a body of water and he will. New rule in the middle of the season is a insult to those who are not being accussed outright. This rule was a outright jab because some bitched. Regardless if it's a rule that is needed or not.

upcomingpro1 · Post by **upcomingpro1** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:53 am

Yea i dont think lynne and mike handled this situation very well im mean im sure it had a little to do with everyone complaining all the time but still insted of going straight to the internet with it posting some new rediculous rule they couldve gone som many other better ways with it. I think now with this going all over the internet SOME people automatically think there cheaters because there making this new rule.

clearlakeoutdoors · Post by **clearlakeoutdoors** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:17 am

The rule about seeding an area has been a rule in other orgs for years and i agree with it. The new rule about fishing with live bait 14 days prior to an event means that any guide that is making a living guiding ( and in the winter at clearlake they are all using live bait) cannot fish a tournament unless he wants to turn down trips. Its hard enough already to make a living guiding. Just because you can find fish with minnows doesnt mean you can catch them with plastics.
I enjoy fishing with minnows and have been doing so for forty plus years And will continue to do so. I dont think that rule is right.
Dave

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:34 am

mark poulson wrote:Cooch,
I think you're over reacting. The intent of the rule change is not to take people's freedoms away, it's to insure a level playing field. That rule is for people who want to fish their tournaments. Any tourney organization has the right to make whatever rules they feel are appropiate for their tournaments.
As long as they are the same for everyone, and posted publically ahead of time, I think it's kosher.
If someone doesn't like the rules, and feel they want to fish live bait, or chum, they can just not fish that organization's trails. That's freedom of choice.

Mark, I really don't have any issues with what was initially posted by Lynne. As it was posted, I think it's a fair rule and covers a loophole that certainly falls into the realm of gaining an unfair advantage where chumming and seeding is taking place.

My point was directed at the USAC posted change, for adding this No Live bait, 14 days out. Maybe I missed something in Lynne's post, I didn't read into it that NBW was pointing directly at live bait fishing. I don't think it's right, that tournament orgs govern our personal fishing time, outside of their designated days for their fishing competition with such a rule. Fishing with live bait is a legal way to fish. As Dave mentions above, it is a practice used by many guides on specific bodies of water, I can assure you, it is also practiced by many more anglers in general, tournament guys too, on a number of our tournament lakes. Anyone can live bait fish, if they put the time on the water. There is no advantage over other anglers because I do chose to live bait fish and they chose not to. The advantage I have, is because I do chose to prefish, whether it be with live bait or not.

Live bait fishing, is not cheating, as long as it's outside the competition days, by state laws, it's legal. It's kinda like the 8 foot rod rule, the life vest rule or kill switch rule, are they gonna impose a 14 day out rule for these infractions of their tournament rules too? With the 8 foot rod rule, orgs over the years have basically told ALL fly fisherman, you can't participate in our events. That was a dumb rule too back then, simply because the tournament guys were so spent on how Dee & Gleibe were whackin their arses, instead of joining them and learning how ta use this new technique, they cried foul, said it was unfair and thumped their mighty chests until the orgs caved in. I'm just not in favor of tournament orgs micro managing my personal fishing time and choices, with a rule change such as this, that has no bearing on what happens on game day, ya still gotta catch em on artificials. I also think it is one of them rules that will be extremely tough to enforce, yet it's introduction, sure will open the door for speculation and assumed accusations towards anglers who will now be accused of cheating, when in fact they may have never touched live bait at all.

It's not an over reaction, just a well thought out opinion. It is just yet another point that validates my decision, among the many I have, not to fish tournaments anymore. I look back over the 20 years I actively fished tournaments dating back to 1984, one would presume like most sports, ours would evolve and get better every year. That just hasn't been the case, when infact the opposite is true, and I don't think I'm the only one out here with that opinion, just the only one who does care enough ta jump in with ya all and ramble! Course, this pea soup fog has a bearing on why I'm here today too! HAR!

KPalmer · Post by **KPalmer** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:54 am

I think NBW rule change is a good thing and it sounds like Shaun and Billy think so as well. I guess I could understand people's rumors and accusations a little better if there weren't 8 limits brought in over 18 lbs last weekend. It would be one thing if Shaun and Billy weighed in 23 lbs, and 2nd place was 14 lbs, but that hasn't been the case the last few tournaments. That fishery is exploding right now with large catches. The rest of us have full time jobs and can't get on the water every day, but Shaun and Billy are out there everyday putting in the time.
Kent

littlebailey · Post by **littlebailey** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:01 am

Holy crap it never ends! Ill even split the cost with any given org for a polygraph for Billy and Shaun, just so my brother and Billy can get the credit they deserve. Then when they pass, every hater out there bends over and shoves their heads up their owns @$$e$. Any takers?

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:01 am

With respect to the rule update by USAC and NBW:

First and foremost, this rule IS NOT a result of any cheating incident. To insinuate in any way that someone out there has broken any rule or has cheated is an incorrect assumption and no anglers should be subject to such slander as it is without merit.

This rule was modified to clarify some ambiguity in the existing rule and close what was perceived as a loophole which might allow someone to gain a competitive advantage that was beyond what we thought to be in the fairness of the spirit of competition.

The USAC Pro-Team rule 17 previously stated:

“…Transporting live fish taken in one area and releasing them in another area for the purpose of establishing a population in the new area during the practice period, during the tournament, or 30 days prior to the tournament is strictly prohibited and grounds for disqualification.”

The ambiguity in this rule came about as most everyone has interpreted this in the past to mean gamefish, ie: black bass.

Likewise, even the California Fish and Game rules in this respect leave a gray area which is open to interpretation:

4.05. BAIT FISH CAPTURE METHODS.•

(a) Approved bait fish may be taken only by hand, with a dip net, or with traps not over three feet in greatest dimension. Such bait fish may not be purchased, bartered, sold, transferred or traded; or transported alive from the location where taken.

Bearing these rules in mind, USAC and NBW have decided to clarify our rules to close a loophole which might allow a team to gain a competitive advantage by “seeding” an area with baitfish or utilizing live bait in an area in an attempt to condition the feeding habits of gamefish prior to a tournament.

One blogger has correctly noted that USAC and NBW are simply addressing a potential issue by closing this loophole.

With respect to licensed guides or a granddad taking a kid fishing with worms, potential competitors are always free to contact the tournament director of the event they are fishing to ask for an exemption for such situations.

littlebailey · Post by **littlebailey** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:08 am

thank you for clearing that up Bill..... I think its a good rule, perfect for Clearlake as well.

mike at robo · Post by **mike at robo** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:12 am

I do not know how the fish at Havasu react to having live forage introduced into the area that they live in , but here in southern califonia it is one of the worst things you can do . When they get locked on to live bait it is almost impossible to catch them on artificial lures . Sure there are exceptions but I have fished live bait numerous times here to see the effect it had on a spot and it would shut them off of artificials immediately . I know for a FACT that Shaun Bailey knows this because we were in the boat TOGETHER . I have fished bait with Shaun and we would watch the effect of bait on fish as they related to lures . Almost always they would have nothing to do with artificial lures . This effect on spots would last for days sometimes killing spots for good ! As far as him fishing bait at all he is no different than the rest of us . He likes to CATCH FISH !
This guy is a freak when it comes to fishing . I only
Know of one other guy I fished with and against who had this desire .... His name was Aaron Martens ......... P.S. Aren't the same two guys finishing second every week also ? I guess there next .

toddmc · Post by **toddmc** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:28 am

Give Shaun and Billy credit for catching some great fish. They put in their time and did nothing that was illegal. They even say the new rule is fine. Stop the witch hunt. You are going to piss them off and they will fish even harder! If you want to win at Castaic you have to beat Bill. If you want to win at DVL, you have to beat Guy, Mike, Kyle and too many others to list. If you want to win a Havasu, you have to beat Shaun. The problem is everyone wants to spend as much time on the water as these anglers do and they are probably at least a little jealous. I know I am. But, it makes it so much more satisfying when you beat them. If you don't think it's fair, go fish a local bass club and don't let pros in.

elfish16 · Post by **elfish16** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:33 am

i will tell you first hand that Shaun isn't a cheater..the guy puts his time in on the water and just this adds to his success. Before moving to Havasu he was kicking my butt on Casitas almost every weekend...we'd be running to the same spots trying to fish the same small spots and he just flat out knows how to catch them.

In all honesty i feel that people sooo worried about cheaters these days are seriously ruining a lot of fun for fisherman. Like Kramer said, the simple fact you couldn't take someone out fishing a week before with crawlers or whatever is pretty sad. If someone is intentionally stocking spots its a whole different thing...but to take a less skilled angler fishing and using some bait, for the days efforts, being banned is a little excessive.

I don't think that Shaun or Billy need to be given tests...knowing Shaun as long as I have and seen him fish as much as he has, that would be wasting everyones time and money.

One of my best friends here at Casitas that fishes on a daily basis was under scrutiny about cheating as well...and it was just simply the idea he puts more time and work into finding his big ones its crazy! I am tired of seeing a hard working angler, legitimately catching fish and doing homework get bashed.

Come on people, is this what our sport is coming to???

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:42 am

elfish16 wrote:One of my best friends here at Casitas that fishes on a daily basis was under scrutiny about cheating as well...and it was just simply the idea he puts more time and work into finding his big ones its crazy! I am tired of seeing a hard working angler, legitimately catching fish and doing homework get bashed.

Come on people, is this what our sport is coming to???

Unfortunately, yes it has...... especially when that one guy ya least expect, gits caught, it gits validated and creates a firestorm. That's the sad part.

bircher · Post by **bircher** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:57 am

As Dave and Cooch mention above, I was o.k. with NBW's original wording, but for USAC to add the 14 day ban prior to tourney day on live bait fishing is a very poor decision IMHO. Tourny Orgs really need to pondor this one and the ramifications before implementing this.

First in foremost, you have to consider the guides. I'm not one of them but know who most of them are. By banning live bait you are asking them to choose between a livelihood/profession and tourney fishing. With today's horrific tournament numbers I’m not so certain you want to "force their hand"? Certain ponds like Clear Lake our notorious for the winter minnow bite and those minnows will out fish artificials on almost any given day in the winter. Virtually all the guides book their winter trips on Clear Lake predicated on the minnow bite. Clear Lake is just one example.

Secondly, from a personal perspective, I have 4 kids under the age of 13 and take them and their friends fishing on a regular basis. While I'm teaching them the basics of bass fishing with artificials, I also carry along night crawlers on the boat to get the kids through the slow days. And lately on the River there have been many slow days over the last 2 years! I've come to realize that the kids just want to catch fish and a bluegill or crappie tugging on the ultra-light pole works as good as bass, and more importantly keeps them coming back for more. The point is that kids can't always catch them on artificials and shouldn’t be expected to. It's up to us to teach our kids this sport called fishing and now with the addition of this rule there is apparently a conflict. Now all of us that fish tourney’s that are parents have to be concerned of being accused of cheating because we threaded a night crawler or minnow on the hook?

I fish 4-7 days a week year around and sometimes choose live bait for various reasons. For those of you that don’t know, this is perfectly legal and I’ve been using live bait periodically for 40 years. While fishing live bait consumes less than 2% of my fishing time, I should be entitled to fish that method if I choose. Last year I supported AC East Delta, AC West Delta and AC Delta Extreme. How am I going to support these trails and still take my kids fishing? I think we know what the outcome will be if you start asking anglers to choose tourneys over family.

Where does it end? It's perfectly legal to fish live bait under current regulations and anglers shouldn’t have to make a choice between guiding, fun fishing, taking kids fishing or tourney fishing.
Tight Lines,
Mike Birch

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:02 am

I don't see anywhere in here where Shaun and Billy were called cheaters. Sadly, just because Shaun and Billy have been on a roll, some folks just seem to automatically assume that the new rule has to be a reaction to something they did, and that whatever it was or wasn't, it must have been cheating. It's a shame that 2 respected anglers names are thrown out there for no reason to the point that they have to beg to take a polygraph just to stop the BS.

Hutch said they were just trying to close a loophole. Why they chose to do it, or what prompted it, is going to be subject to tons of speculation unless they clear the air. I hope they do that so this whole issue can be put to rest.

gixxer464 · Post by **gixxer464** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:51 am

I would like to know who started this rumor.

longshot · Post by **longshot** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:08 am

I would like to know why anyone wants to fish tournaments????? I mean seriuosly hasn't all this b.s. over the years gotten to you??? I can tell you that i fished the first event and payed my membership for nbw and they said BIG turnout and guess what 17 boats lol.......... waste of 70$
Oh well I think for allot of my buddies and I we are going old school headin out together and havin fun for beer rights

Do what you do but this SHIAT is OLD.
LS

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:07 pm

With the exception of the guides who fish for a living, who need to fish livebait for their customers, my question is, if you are so dialed in at your lake that you can win every event, no matter how much you LOVE TO FISH, why even put yourself under the scrutiny of question by even ever being SEEN with a shad net or a live bait tank in your boat during the derby season. You cant fish them on derby day, so why even use them at all? Work on your tactics that you are going to need to win that weeks Tournament. I like the new rule, as there were and are when the shad are up, tournament anglers fishing them during the week at DVL. Make a choice, guide or tournament angler, but there can be no gray area. Give everyone a polygraph who wins. Remember, it was not too long ago that another great angler would have never ever been suspected of cheating. Pressure to pay the bills, peer pressure, sponser pressure, whatever you want to call it, can make some folks push the envelope. Rick G.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:28 pm

bryanmc wrote:I don't see anywhere in here where Shaun and Billy were called cheaters.

Yer right Bryan, nobody on this thread has accused them, other than Shaun opening the rumor mill can of worms. For the most part, many have come to their defense in the posts that followed his. That damn "R" word, is nothing but trouble, proves itself time and time again. So much of bass fishing is mental, and that includes the mental affects of rumors and internet bashing on both ends. We know that mentally Shaun and Billy will pass this off and continue their dominant ways, they are mentally into bass fishing in such a way that only a few can comprehend and most strive to achieve. I feel bad for those who sit there, and are mentally defeated by the thoughts the only way they can be beaten, is if someone is cheating. If that's the way yer always gonna be thinkin, then tournament fishing is always gonna take ya outa yer comfort zone, and ya prolly need ta give it up.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:06 pm

The further you get away from the mother ship's rules the further you're exiling yourselves into irrelevance.

This would seem, to me, to come into the realm of unenforceable rules and we've all pretty much agreed that those aren't any good. If you had a rule to cover every possible scenario known to tournament angling the book of rules would be of Biblical size, and again, I'm pretty sure no one wants to go there.

This rule seems reactionary at best and therefor probably unnecessary. However, I believe a lot of the regional rules are unenforceable and therefor unnecessary.

Just my opinion.

sTony

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:12 pm

Hey Rick, rumor has it that you had a Rainbow hooked up at DVL last Saturday! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not A Pansy Loser · Post by **Not A Pansy Loser** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:34 pm

Reactionary yes, but to what? Reactionary not to actions, but to rumors by haters. Don't know Mr Bailey, but Mr Skinner has done exactly what he said he was going to do. He got a place at Havasu so he could get out everyday and learn to dominate around there. He did exactly the same thing in Yuma. He could catch fish in a bath tub. He is good and he spends the time to be good, and he takes time to do it right.

This is reactionary to whiners, losers, and rumors.

He stated he doesn't do the things the rumor monger haters claim and offered to take a polygraph anyway.

Notice to haters. Why can't you be happy for a young guy who is beating you fair and square by working hard at it?

You can't build yourself up by tearing others down.

AND.... They are good everywhere they fish. I think its pretty rotten of the Petersons and Justin to make a reactionary rule to rumors (mid season no less) without facing off with Mr Skinner and Mr Bailey first. They lent creedence to unfounded rumor. If you have proof then pony up and make a protest at a tournament. Come on.

Petersons and Justin. Think there was a good reason to take this backstab and lend creedence to loser rumor mongers then take Mr Skinner up on his offer to take a polygraph.

Mr Skinner. I applaud you. You did what you said you were going to do. You did it by hard work and dedication. Something that seems to be lacking in many people today. If people took pride in working hard and doing a good job more often this would be a better country than it is today.

Jealous of Mr Skinner? So what. Me too. I am jealous that he has had the nerve to really try and do what so many of us wish we could do. I am jealous of his success, but I won't put him down for it. That's just chicken droppings. I sure as heck won't tell stories about him or read false motivations into anything he does or spread rumors. I don't get to run into him much these days, but when I do see him again, I'll try to be the better man and congratulate him for his success. My jealousy of his success is my problem, it sure as heck shouldn't be his.

Whitaker said don't fish. Ok. I quit. I won't fish a circuit that starts changing the rules mid season anymore, and I sure won't continue to support any organization that lends creedence to rumors against a successful young man by this method instead of finding out the real truth first.

I can donate my money to Mr Skinner and Mr Bailey in person. No need for anybody else to take a cut. LOL.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:47 pm

Not A Pansy Loser wrote: This is reactionary to whiners, losers, and rumors.

All that and not even the balls to post it under your real name.... Amazing

KPalmer · Post by **KPalmer** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:55 pm

There is no rule about not being able to follow an angler around all day if you want to see where and how they catch fish....There is also no rule about using that info and going back to the exact same spot you saw these guys catch fish and throw the same baits you saw them throw... Cracks me up how little imagination there is with the biggest critics.. but then they are affraid of taking the heat and being accused of fishing someone elses water...yep, you will take some heat but who cares that's part of the game and is totally fair game...This is a competitive sport and there is no such thing as "someone elses water" It's a public water way and if you get a better draw then go fish it if you can't find your own fish...but don't be a friggin victim. I am so tired of the cry babies in this sport that can't think outside the box or just wanna be a victim or have some excuse why they are getting their butts kicked each week...go spy on them or anyone else if you want. Those that are winning are gonna do their best to throw everyone else off the trail. It's a two way street. The smarter ones prevail. I loved it a few years back when David Dudley took a bunch of heat for sore mouthing all those bedfish the day before the tournament because he was in a later flight and wouldn't have a chance to get on those bedfish early...He was just thinking outside the box and understood this is a competition and out smarted the rest..He was beatin up for being unsportsmanlike, but I thought it was a brilliant move on his part. Everyone can be hugging buddies after the tournament, but on the water it's a battle. Like playing football with a friend on the other team. Are you not going to tackle him because he is your friend? The new rule is fine, that's part of the battle. Whether people walked a fine line or not around that issue doesn't really matter now, it was legal at the time and now that loop hole is closed. So go back to Mamby Pamby land and figure out why the color Yellow makes you sad...haha

Kent

sker13 · Post by **sker13** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:57 pm

I hope me and my partner are so dominant that this happens to us. You know you are really f'ing with their minds when they pull the cheating card. I can't wait. It's gonna be a f'ing riot. I can only wish that every org makes a rule that is in response to rumors on how I must have been cheating to achieve such dominance. Then I will know I have truly made it.LOL I remember being at a weigh in where everyone was weighing in itty bitty spotted bass caught pretty deep (they were very light in color). Well up walks this guy with like 17lbs of largemouth (very dark shallow fish). They blew away the field by like 5-6 pounds. Then the rumors started. Guys couldn't believe that they couldn't catch largemouth but the winning team could. Long story short I now know first hand that they caught those fish. Jealousy and envy are a bitc#.

As for the rule. At least they are trying. It won't stop s#it. Guys who look for an advantage using stuff like this are never gonna stop.

Not A Pansy Loser · Post by **Not A Pansy Loser** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:21 pm

bryanmc wrote:
Not A Pansy Loser wrote: This is reactionary to whiners, losers, and rumors.
All that and not even the balls to post it under your real name.... Amazing

Darn right. Those same whiners and losers would trash talk me too.

... and I am posting from behind stacked proxy servers too.

Chip Gilbert · Post by **Chip Gilbert** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:40 pm

One question for everyone who is or will be read this.

If you truely believe someone is cheating or have some type of proof...

WHY DONT YOU BE A MAN AND COME FOWARD !!!!!!

Rules are rules and we should all be fallowing them. plain and simple

All this hate going around is going to drive the winners out of all the curcuits around. Which to me is a very bad thing.

Nothing makes me feel better about my day on the lake then when i can beat one of the top sticks. Haveing guys like Baliey around makes me fish harder and harder everytime i go out on the water.

I look forward too fishing big events when I know the big dogs will be comeing out to play. I fish against one of ,if not the best stick in so cal every tourney I am in. Even my federation events he fishes. Guess what I love it and have beaten him a time or 2. Oh and by the way he just back to backed El Cap over the weekend and did not cheat. Amazeing I know , but it happens. With that said El Cap is all mine this weekend and he is fishing the same event.

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