The Gov & Delta Sac Bee "Boondoggle"

[Big Lambinski]

Did anyone catch the article / advertisement in todays Sac Bee. It was an advertisement hammering Moonbeam (Jerry Brown). The author was Dean Cortopassi. In a nut shell he was blasting the cross canal and stating the way to save the delta and its ecology was to dredge and build up the levees with the sediment, which would assist in flows from north to the south by clearing the trub from the delta.

It was on page A-5. I think he has valid points what do you think.

[deltalinesider]

I couldn't find the article on http://www.sacbee.com/delta/. Is it possible to post a link? I would be interested in reading it.

Restore the Delta is hosting a talk by Dr. Robert Pyke on May 4th in Rio Vista.

Wednesday May 4, 2011
*Guest Speaker: Dr. Robert Pyke – Dr. Robert Pyke is an area Delta and water systems enginer. He will discuss his ideas for Delta restoration and management of California’s water system.
For more information or question call 209-479-2053
6:00 p.m – 7:30 p.m.
at
D.H. White Elementary School
in school auditorium
500 Elm Street
Rio Vista, CA 94571

What Dr. Robert Pyke has in mind

by RTDJess on February 19, 2011

Dr Robert Pyke has a wealth of geotechnical and water resources engineering experience from all over the world, including the Delta, and he has some sensible suggestions for addressing our water management problems. Among them

1. Restoration of floodplains on the Sacramento and San Joaquin rivers and their tributaries, which provides three significant benefits: stretching out floods to allow export pumping over a longer time; reducing peak flows as floods pass by the major urban areas and through the Delta; and restoring complexity and nutrients to the ecosystem.

2. New pumping facilities somewhere in the west Delta to allow flows to pass through the Delta in a natural way before surplus flows are extracted; these facilities might include some temporary storage.

3. One or more tunnels that can move the extracted water to a large temporary storage facility until the existing pumps can move it south; this storage facility would likely be adjacent to and might incorporate the existing Clifton Court Forebay.

4. Additional south-of-Delta storage, much of it likely as groundwater but also including new west-side surface storage.

Said Dr. Pyke in a Stockton Record op-ed last month, “Any well-thought-out plan for getting out of this stalemate has to start by recognizing both the need for more natural flows through the Delta and that precipitation in California is extremely variable.

Thus, natural flows through the Delta should be restored to the maximum practical extent; and much more water should be extracted at periods of high flow and much less at periods of low flow.”

Other suggestions from Dr. Pyke:

Put in place a rational plan for maintaining and improving Delta levees and a mechanism for funding these improvements.

Be sure that Delta levee and water conveyance policies allow for adaptive management to adapt to sea level rise as necessary.

Encourage growth of native vegetation on the water side of all Delta levees. (This engineer insists that it can be done safely, and we agree.)

Preserve the tradition of agriculture in the Delta to the maximum extent possible but encourage habitat-friendly agricultural practices.

Encourage development of recreational and tourism facilities on broadened levees that provide positive flood protection as well as access to the water.

Emphasize the interconnectedness of conveyance, ecosystem restoration, flood management, and water quality.

The Delta never had large stretches of open water. Dr. Pyke recommends restoring five sunken Delta islands (including Franks Tract) as tidal wetlands or tule marsh. Allowing tule marsh would allow soil level to rebuild to sea level. Open water, he says, does nothing for the ecosystem, is hard on levees, and can’t be used by boaters.

Dr. Pyke notes that the Delta Conservancy is the primary state agency responsible for ecosystem restoration in the Delta.

For the BDCP or anyone else to prioritize ecosystem restoration efforts, including possible conversion of agricultural lands to habitat, is premature until the Conservancy’s strategic plan is complete.

[mark poulson]

Those guys seem to make sense. They'll probably get ignored. Not enough money in their proposals for special interests.

[Big Lambinski]

The best link I can find is this one but it is tough to read. It was a paid advertisement, so it does not show up in the Bee searches.

http://findnsave.sacbee.com/Local-Ads/a ... d=10775266

The one flaw I see in his argument for dredging and depositing the dredge material is that this material has poor structural qualities and can cause levee failure unless it is placed adequately. Though his premise seems very logical,.... no wonder the State would not do it. It is economical and do able!

Duh, winning! Big white Sacramento building full of trolls.

[Andy Giannini]

While it may be true that some dredge materials may not be top notch building materials, neither is the foundation they are sitting on, peat. Keep in mind, wherever you go on the Delta that bank you are looking at is more than likely built of dredge materials. (Unless you are in Disco!)

Clamshell dredging has advantages, but more recently envorimental protections have made it less feasable. (The envirowackos do not want sediment messing with the native fish. Go look in the river right now to see if there is any sediment.)

The Army Corps will use envorimental constraints and narrow dredging windows to avoid doing the job that needs to be done. The truth is, there just is not enough money to get the needed dredging done.

It's a big topic.

A.G.

[Big Lambinski]

Andy I am reading what your writing and very true.

I find it very quaint that a cross canal is being discussed costing tax payers millions, lowering flow rates, in turn increasing sediment deposition, propagating increased salinity levels, and conventional dredging is expensive and poses environmental impacts.

I think wait, I know it is a case of the loudest, richest, whinniest SOB's in the state circumventing the environment, grassroots interest for their personal, financial and political enrichment.

I am beginning to feel it is akin to the usual disagreements of religion, gun control, abortion and blondes vs brunettes or redheads.

How will we ever win, do we know what what we want.

I would like the politicos to leave the Delta alone as I believe it can and will correct itself, without the interactions or assistance from man.

Let mother nature do her thing. This years snow melt will be interesting.


Thanks guys for your input..... Fish on and long live the SMELT.

[nipples]

I find it very quaint that a cross canal is being discussed costing tax payers millions, lowering flow rates, in turn increasing sediment deposition, propagating increased salinity levels, and conventional dredging is expensive and poses environmental impacts.

I am beginning to feel it is akin to the usual disagreements of religion, gun control, abortion and blondes vs brunettes or redheads.

I would like the politicos to leave the Delta alone as I believe it can and will correct itself, without the interactions or assistance from man. Let mother nature do her thing. This years snow melt will be interesting.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana 1905

The Delta was not made by nature... Left alone, mother nature would destroy the current Delta and return California to it's natural state. That cross canal is pure corruption, greed, and stupidity. However, that corruption, greed, and stupidity has already manifested itself and made it clear that the corrupt few in control will sell our water from under us, and there is nothing we can do about it. I doubt we could stop it no matter how hard we try. Southern California is a dessert with a massive population that keeps growing exponentially. They need the water and they have a lot of voting power. (The morons also choose to live in a place that cannot naturally sustain the population. So that is yet another disaster waiting to happen).

Additionally religion (all) is pure evil and is responsible for more wars and death than all the rest of the causes combined (Also... Those are the morons who believe in Satan, Atheist don't believe in Satan, without religion, there is no Satan, therefore, no evil ), gun control is BS and un-american, abortion is a woman's right to choose (it's her body and a fetus doesn't have a cerebral cortex until the third trimester. Also growing up on a farm taught me the cow is always more valuable than the calf, so the woman wins out every time.... Mooooooo), and redheads are way more fun (provided they are real redheads and not dye job wannabes... I think redheads are why the Irish say "the lard works in mysterious ways". )

[Andy Giannini]

There is something else about the new canal, and it is not good for the Delta.

The Army Corps spends money on flood fighting efforts to preserve the conveyance. Think of the current Delta like pipeline to deliver water. The State sponsored a study that found you could not feasibly seismic retrofit the Delta or make it more earthquake resistant like a bridge or building. (Duh.) The canal is being sold as a reliable water delivery system. Once the canal is up and running, the current Delta will become less important regarding flooding. Saltwater intrusion due to a big tract or island flooding won't be as threatening to water deliveries because the source point will be higher upstream.

(I did forget one thing about clamshell dredging, they were used in fact in the construction of Disco. The little clover type bays were dug out with big scrapers leaving a dyke in place to keep the water out till the excavation was complete. Dredge "Sacramento" dug out those dykes beyond the waterline to inlet the water and finish the excavation or the new waterway.)

.02 A.G.

[Big Lambinski]

Thanks for the input guys. Meaningful dialog and independent though differing perspectives is what makes these forums so great.

Off the soap box and on to chasing the ever elusive green aggressive beasts.

'Out'................

[offduty]

Nipples

I understand the concept of freedom of speech and you certainly have a right to yours. From your post I take it that I am a moron to have been born in So Cal. Seems like you think all the water that flows through the Delta belongs to you. I am not real happy with the politicians or the laws of this state either. Even though you have expressed your opinion of those of us that live in So Cal I will withhold my opinion of you based on your recent postings. Hey I am going to move to Northern California anyway. So Cal a dessert, some parts yes but a lot no. Gotta love the IGM mentality.

Rich

[deltalinesider]

We are all Americans. We are all Californians. We must protect our natural resources as valuable assets for our future. The people are in charge and must stay involved to prevent the collapse of the Delta ecosystem, a renewable resource worth billions of dollars annually.

Dean Cortopassi made some very good points about the hoax of the peripheral canal, the misinformation about SoCal's reliance on Delta water, and reverse flow.

There is a significant amount of MISINFORMATION spread in SoCal regarding Southern CA's need for Delta water. The peripheral canal represents ALL COST and no benefit to the taxpayers of CA. The top .000000001% of the top 1% will benefit from a peripheral canal. The taxpayers of SoCal will be scammed by the Water Bond / Peripheral Canal / BDCP too. NorCal people are fed misinformation too by blaming John Q. Public in SoCal. The water brokers in the middle of the state are exploiting EVERYBODY, pitting the citizens against one another.

There is a minimum amount of water that must flow through the Delta and out the Golden Gate to keep the fish alive. The migratory fish that need cold water (salmon, smelt, stripers, sturgeon, steelhead) are the most vulnerable. Those fish are the indicator of the future of the ecosystem. The increased pumping over the last 11 years hasn't helped anything. The peripheral canal would be a nuclear bomb on the Delta.

There are a privileged few in the position to broker Delta water for tens of millions of dollars in profit per year. Those people want more water. No sh-t, they want more water. The state and federal water projects are like a conveyer belt of money running into San Joaquin Valley. Some of it is used for agriculture, and the rest is brokered to SoCal. The CA taxpayer and the Delta ecosystem are the real losers.

The people of SoCal aren't inherently bad. There is a significant amount of MISINFORMATION about water and Southern California's need for Delta water. Please watch Chinatown with Jack Nicholson regarding the diversion of the Owens River. This is a perfect example of the pillaging of a public resource by creating a false "public need" for water in a particular area.

[deltalinesider]

Great video by CSPA.

http://calsport.org/news/clean-farms-cl ... -campaign/

[nipples]

From your post I take it that I am a moron to have been born in So Cal. Seems like you think all the water that flows through the Delta belongs to you. Rich

Yes Rich, All the water that flows through the delta is MINE!!! And Yes, I was specifically calling you a moron... I thought you might of breezed over that or misread it or <gasp> ignored it all together. Thank you for reading between the lines and inferring yourself into everything I wrote and figuring out that my world revolves around you and only you... If you were born somewhere else, it would be different. MY GOD MAN, you were actually born there!!! Couldn't you have done anything about that? Please tell me that wasn't YOUR choice. LOL

Rich, if you take a moment to re-read what I wrote without thinking I was targeting you specifically (I can see you have a big ego and I actually dig that about you!!!),

"Southern California is a dessert with a massive population that keeps growing exponentially. They need the water and they have a lot of voting power. (The morons also choose to live in a place that cannot naturally sustain the population. So that is yet another disaster waiting to happen)."

Populations grow exponentially (They keep growing faster and faster as they get bigger). So cal does not have enough water nor food resources to support the current population let alone the MASSIVE population they are about to have in the next 10 to 20 years. That is one of many disasters about to happen in So Cal. (I lived in So Cal for 3 years as a kid (1975-78), I also have an uncle who current has an Avocado Farm down there, I've urged him to get out while the getting is good).

10 Years ago, the situation was not as bad, now days, it's pretty bad. When we start killing fish and nature so people can overpopulate any given area, I have a problem with that. And I don't have any pity for people who choose to live there and contribute to the problem as well as set themselves up for a major disaster (that the rest of us will have to bail them out of).

I will never build a house below the flood plain. I always prepare for the next 100 year storm. I won't live in a disaster prone area no matter how good the fishing is (can you say Florida). I will not build a house on an area prone to mud slides and wild fires. I was a boy scout as well as in 4H and FFA. Some things seem like no brainers to me, they are common sense, but common sense is not that common anymore. To me, common sense screams get out of So Cal and don't live in Florida. I don't mind vacations to either location, but I'm not about to go live there. Common sense to me says build a solar desalination plant in So Cal instead of a new drinking straw to the Delta (one might say, the last straw). Common sense to me says build/dig bigger and better water storage in So Cal. Common sense to me says don't build the worlds largest garbage dump in Joshua Tree National Park. And common sense to me says stop killing off the Salmon, smelt, etc. by pumping water to So Cal.

In reality Rich, I wasn't targeting you specifically, it was only a generalization aimed at the lemmings. But since you are getting out, it doesn't apply to you at all (I apologize to your big ego ). But it still applies to anyone planning to stay in So Cal (including my uncle).

Good luck,

-Nips-