Should FPT be allowed to hold a event this weekend??

Levy · Post by **Levy** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:14 am

After hearing about the fish kill that occured at thier event in clear lake this past weekend and taking into account the TD's past issues with dead fish at thier events, shouldn't the DFG pull these folks permits until they proove they can rectify this issue. I think so. What are your thoughts.

Caudawg · Post by **Caudawg** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:33 am

Here is a solution for both tournament orgs and anglers:
http://www.keepfishalive.com

Yes, they are a site sponsor but more importantly, their products are being used by many of the top bass and walleye circuits to give bass a much better chance of survival. The Oxygenators and U2 Pro Formula are being used by most of the top touring pro's across the country.

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:43 pm

No... They should not be allowed to have another event and Vince should be banned from being a TD for life... But that is a personal opinion and I have felt that way for a long time.

I heard there was a thread about all this and that Vince killed 100+ fish at Clearlake this past weekend... Did that get zapped??? If so, edit the bad out of it and bring it back... That is information that people NEED to know... That is a golden opportunity for much needed education for any angler that participates in tourneys... They NEED to know that Vince/FPT is killing fish... They NEED to know that Vince is flapping his gums on the microphone while fish are dying (instead of getting them weighed quickly and released safe and healthy). They NEED to know that he runs his tourneys at half mast with inadequate staff and unnecessary fish killing delays... They need to know that this is not the first time, nor the seconed time Vince has done this.... We all NEED to know when anyone is doing this as it can and will affect us all. TDs like Vince are one of the reasons we are restricted to 6 hour tourneys in the summer.

I've witnessed Vince's "weigh-in cluster #$%#^s" first hand... Being forced to float around for over an hour, waiting to weigh my fish. And Vince never said one thing about not releasing fish at the dock, nor gave any reminders about keeping fish alive and healthy. I could forgive him if it were one or two incidents, but he is a cronic offender and after fishing 7 of Vince's cluster tourneys (Future Pro Tour), I vowed never to fish another event ran by Vince.

TD's get paid by anglers, and I'm not about to pay one who has no regard for the sport (and has proven himself to be dishonest, to me personally, on several occasions)... And I encourage everyone else to take that small level of personal responsibility for the sport they love and do their part to protect it. Stop giving your money to scum bags that give the sport a black eye, there are plenty of good tourneys to fish.

That's my 2 cents and I tried to keep it as civil as possible (for our friendly neighborhood mods). If you want to know how I pissed I really am, catch me in person and I'll give you an ear full.

Best wishes,

-Nips-

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:47 pm

Nipples, that thread is on "another website"

Caudawg · Post by **Caudawg** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:12 pm

Nipples: no, we did not zap a thread on this topic

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:51 pm

LMFAO Nips...

GW · Post by GW » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:28 pm

Easy Fix here:

Hire Bill Cook to run your weigh in.

Problem Solved.

Big Lambinski · Post by **Big Lambinski** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:31 pm

I would 1st off allow the next FPT event to be held without a doubt.

The reason the fish were dead was 100% due to the anglers not the TD. Any time a tournament fish dies it is 9 times out of 10 due to angler mis-management.

I was there, competed (albeit didn't catch my limit) and the weigh in was ran fast, there was a water tank with aerators, bags were provided for the anglers, staff was directing contestants to limit bags to 5#'s or less, requesting teams to release their fish a mile out.

I do agree that this is awful and very sad to see potential trophies killed off. What is the solution? Its not throwing blasphemy and dragging personal issues into the equation. It is education! The majority of these anglers are amateur, teach them how to properly handle their fish, fizzing, proper water temps, add ice to your live well on hot days, circulate your water, run your aerators 100% of the time, invest in live well additives, and the like.

Have a DFG Representative at the weigh in, better yet have DFG or DFG volunteers teach proper technique. Team with biologists to send out articles to FPT contestants. Provide a flyer / pamphlet educating anglers.

Nipples you have your right to rant, you obviously have a personal bone to pick with Vince. Become part of the solution not just another sword in the wound of the problem. You can hate on the general but watch out for his army.

I personally think Vince does a damn good job. He always has made the time to discuss any question I have and hear me out on any suggestions. He draws more anglers than most tournaments around, maybe its location, maybe its price, if you don't like it take your business elsewhere. I do beleive that Vince and his staff were disheartened and sick by the fish that were dead. It is not their MO to have fish die. Heck if all the fish died his business would dry up.

Unfortunate Yes, forgettable No, What do we do, try harder next time and educate.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:04 pm

I HAVE THE ANSWER ...... YES HE SHOULD IF OBAMA CAN F%$# UP THE AMERICAN CHECK BOOK AND STILL BE COMMANDER AND CHIEF THEN VINCE SHOULD BE ABLE TO RUN HIS FPT TOURNAMENTS! EVERYONE IN AMERICA IS ENTITLE TO A FEW BRAIN FARTS

Seriously , Do you think Vince put a bounty on each basses head? I mean come on it was largly due to Anglers not taking care of thier catch. I wounder how man boats had Keep Alive and a needle in the boat ? How many ran thier live wells ?

Its a sad thing and from what i am hearing it was more like 30 fish not the 100 that rumors started. i guess when your the BIGGEST AM CIRCUIT in the west and draw more boats then most PRO tournaments draw, your bound to piss someone off.

I really dont think attacking one person is the salution to the problem. I think Anglers just need to be educated on how to care for the fish. Summer is bad for fish if not cared for properly but so is any other time of the year. If you catch a fish DEEP and dont stick him he will float around and die in summer or winter.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:37 pm

Big Lambinski wrote: Nipples you have your right to rant, you obviously have a personal bone to pick with Vince. Become part of the solution not just another sword in the wound of the problem. You can hate on the general but watch out for his army.

Watch out for his ARMY? LMFAO, army??

I find this to be a direct threat...

ARMY? haha...

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:23 pm

Yes fpt should be allowed to hold there tournament this weekend and yes the anglers are the cause and the blame for 95 % of the dead fish and i would like to see Dfg put a heavy fine on anglers that fish these tournament for bring these fish to the scales half alive or dead Then trying too release them after by dumping them back in the lake after, and after there fined make the teams public for the damage they have caused too that fishery. THEN YOU'LL SEE HOW FAST THEY START TAKING BETTER CARE OF THERE FISH. What makes me laugh about this hole thing is people b#$ch about what happend but nobody to step and help vince at the weigh in its real simple get your lazy butts down to the weight ins and ask vince if he needs help instead of bashing his org then just maybe this will never happen again stop setting behind your keyboards and get out and help im sure he would be glad to have the help. WHAT A BUNCH OF CRY BABYS GEZZZZZZZZZZ

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:49 pm

Just a suggestion for FPT Maybe they can charge 1.00 or 2.00 to each team. Then in return supply them with catch and release. The people at catch and release seem to care about fish and Im sure if they buy enough at one time they will cut them a deal.
IMO its FPT and the Anglers problem. These are the same weigh in times as always with the same people fishing them. Right your name FPT and take care of this before Fish and Game does.

Vince Borges · Post by **Vince Borges** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:54 pm

Really the blame should be placed on the anglers. These fish didn't just start suffering once they crossed the weigh in stage! Most of these fish were on their death bed long before that. Most probably didn't need to be popped! Just because a fish floats doesn't mean he got the binge. I'm sure most of these fish were oxegin depleted all day long. Sticking them would just be assisted suicide. If anglers would spend a bit of time taking care of them well on the water their survival rate would go WAY up. How many times have you seen anglers with hurting fish say man I hope they make it to the weigh in! And then go dump there fish, they see that the fish swam away and think alright they made it! Only to have swam away to die of post traumatic stress and tournament related injuries hours after the anglers have left. If you fill that you are good enough to compete in a tourney of ANY level than you should also be educated in fish health and safety as well! And there are plenty of resources at EVERYONES disposal!!! Interntet is your friend, heck if you can come on here to complain then you can just as easily look up how to maintain your catch, maybe even print copies for your friends, clubs, and even local tackle shops. Instead of trying to blame a TD that isn't in everybodies boat all day babysitting, try and help educate! If you realy believe that this is because the anglers are so called rookies ( which we all know is a bunch of BS) maybe call BASS and request they send you copies of there free hand out book and donate them to TD to give to there anglers!

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:05 pm

You could also have a work shops on this subject get a few of the local pros together and work with the anglers in several areas of how fish should be handled. pretty simple thing to do im sure anglers would attend.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:08 am

Hmmm if its 95% the anglers fault, Maybe the DFG should stop allowing AM tourneys all together then.

Grape Ape · Post by **Grape Ape** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:04 am

Well it sure the hell isn't the TD's fault! I never blamed a dead fish on anyone but myself. Take responsibility and stop blaming someone else!

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:48 am

Brian wrote:Hmmm if its 95% the anglers fault, Maybe the DFG should stop allowing AM tourneys all together then.

best suggestion yet!

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:07 am

Really the blame should be placed on the anglers. These fish didn't just start suffering once they crossed the weigh in stage! Most of these fish were on their death bed long before that.

+1 Like

ash · Post by **ash** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:19 am

Hollywood wrote:
Brian wrote:Hmmm if its 95% the anglers fault, Maybe the DFG should stop allowing AM tourneys all together then.

best suggestion yet!

Spoken like a true liberal - regulate tighter and encourage the bureaucracy to decide which tournaments are worthy of being issued permits - the first no is the hardest, after that it becomes easy to say no to the next one, and the next one....if you listen closley you can hear the stomping of the jack boots in the background growing louder and louder

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:16 am

Ash hit it on the head!!! All yall are doing is bringing a negative vibe and black eye to the sport why would a fellow bass angler go public and down any brother of the sport ? What happen to the commerodity of the sport ? Vince is a good guy and he can take a take critiscim, I bet if you called him up and asked him how this happen he would be man enough to tell you point blank. Then he would listen to you could offer your advice so this may not happen again.

These days it seems like everyone just wants to get the rope and find a tree on everyone who makes a mistake. We may have different opinions on things but we all love bass fishing I mean you would have to to spend so much of your life on this fourm. LOL We all need to work togeather so our rights to fish are not taken from us by these left wing librials.

I cant remember who posted it but a year or so ago some one came on the political fourms and really opened my eyes and basicly they said you may not like guns but you might LOVE mountin biking and you protested to ban guns and they listened guns were banned and you were happy, then a year later they banned your riding trails! So be careful what you wish for it could come back and bite you in the arse! So you can say ban Am tournaments then later they may be on a roll and ban fishing all togeather. Education is key angler need thier fellow anglers to teach them how to care for there fish.

I will even go as far to tell you how to care for your fish

Fill your livewells before the first fish is cuaght !!!! I see so many guys throw a fish in the livewell then hit the fill on the livewell. This is BAD the fish flips and flops destroying is slime coat !

Add a additive catch and reliease or keep Alive I can vouch for Keep Alive this stuff takes the stress right out of the fish kind of sedates them abit.

When you catch your first bass if he is gut or gill hooked cut the line and leave the hook in the bass DO NOT TRY AND REMOVE IT!!!! The hooks are designed to detiorate fast and the bass has a better chance of survival .

Next if you can safely remove the hook do so and try not to bang the fish around use your nets we have gotten so use to the new braid lines the norm is to swing the fish in the boat and let it flap on the floor again destroying the slime coat and giving way to infection. I even see the big time bass pros on tv being quilty of this one.

If your going to use a culling bouy use use the clips or pierce the lower lip DO NOT STICK IT THRU THE GILL PLATE!!!!

Place the fish in the live well gently dont open the lid and just throw him in the well, again I have seen PROS quilty of this one

If your bass is caught deep like so many spots are caught in the summer on our resivors you will know it right away the fish will not up right him self he will be on his side in the well. If this is the case pull out your deflate needle and stick him here is a great link that teaches you how to Fizz the bass

http://s6.zetaboards.com/Bass_Busters/topic/8524510/1/

After fizzing then place the bass back in the livewell and make sure he is upright.

I like to keep a floating thermoeter in my live well you can buy one from the pet department at wall mart for like a few bucks and check the temps of you water thru out the day 82 is the max you want your water temps in the well any hotter then that and the mortaility rate increases by 50% so if you are reading a surface temp in the wells of more then 82 degress ADD ICE!!! to cold is better then to hot !

Turn on you airation system most of the time the wells can be cooled down a few degrees by bring in fresh lake water.

Check your fish often I dont see any of the pros on TV ever stopping to check thier catch

More tips add additional air systems like stones or the oxyginator,etc....

If your batteries are on the down side replace em you should never go into a tournament thinking I need to conserve power I have bad batteries ! Pass on the tourney and use that entry money to buy new ones and catch the next tourney.

It seems like a lot and I know in a tournament situation we are all wired to fish fish fish and we forget about the little things but if you practice this it will become as normal as putting the plug in the boat !!!!! and not take but a few seconds to preform each task.

Hope this helps

Tin Can · Post by **Tin Can** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:32 am

g-man wrote:
Big Lambinski wrote: Nipples you have your right to rant, you obviously have a personal bone to pick with Vince. Become part of the solution not just another sword in the wound of the problem. You can hate on the general but watch out for his army.

Watch out for his ARMY? LMFAO, army??

I find this to be a direct threat...

ARMY? haha...

The fish killing army?

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:10 am

Its not just the am's that are causing the problem in just one fishing org It in all orgs again stop kidding yourselfs a few people want too pick on fpt & vince because he has a tournament org that people can afford too fish and try too have fun without being bashed by a few that have a bone to pick with him. There problems in very fishing club local or bigger orgs with the miss handling of fish and as long as these tournaments go in the summer time bassin your going to have dead or dying fish.

Levy · Post by **Levy** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:21 am

jiggin4bass wrote:What makes me laugh about this hole thing is people b#$ch about what happend but nobody to step and help vince at the weigh in its real simple get your lazy butts down to the weight ins and ask vince if he needs help instead of bashing his org then just maybe this will never happen again stop setting behind your keyboards and get out and help im sure he would be glad to have the help. WHAT A BUNCH OF CRY BABYS GEZZZZZZZZZZ

This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. I will tell you what, as soon as Vince starts putting these events on for free and not for profit I will be happy to volunteer.

Some of you other guys crack me up as well defending the TD for this. Let's not forget that this is not a isolated occurance or accident. This has happened at a few of his events. I completely agree that it is the anglers fault for bringing in dead fish if they did not take proper care of them however it is the orgs RESPONSIBILITY to ensure EVERYTHING is done to protect the resource they are profitting on. Where was the release boat? How many dead fish penalties or DQ's were there for not following the rules? Who in the org was making sure thier anglers were releasing the fish properly back into the lake and not on the doc? Who in the org discussed proper fish care with thier anglers each day before launching? All of the above activities should have been done by the org and were not. The captain is responsible and should always go down with the ship.

IMO the dead fish penalties should be increased dramitically. 2 dead fish = DQ. I also believe anglers should be DQ'ed if they do not follow the proper release procedures when they are required to release thier own fish. If the org is releasing the fish and they find a fish that was not fizzed that should also be a DQ for improper fish handling.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:24 am

How many times has this come up with FPT? I think if anyone is being picked on its because they are seeing it for their own eyes. I remember the Folsom post on here a couple years ago. Same chit with FPT! I was there at the weigh in and saw the dead fish with my own eyes. The story then was the release boat had a flat tire. Sure trailers have flat tires but how many times is this going to happen? I have fished only a few Tournaments and I can tell you this is the only one Ive seen fish die in numbers like this. Sure it happens in other Tournaments but not this percent of fish.
As far as everyone saying well they are AM's so they need to learn. LOL you kidding me? FUTURE PRO tour is not about AM's anymore. There are more wrapped boat in this org then in most! I cant tell you the number of AM's that wont fish FPT any longer because they feel its not AM's any longer!

JustinD · Post by **JustinD** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:07 am

Since the delta tourney is best bites tourney does that mean it is a two day fish fry for 5 fish limits or 5 fish for two days?

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:22 am

OK people,A lot of people "WHO WHERE NOT THERE" are speaking up without the propper information. Every angler that brought in A "DEAD FISH" was penilized like any other tournament ran. "EVERY ANGLER" that had A dead fish at the wiegh-in was told "NOT" to release there "DEAD FISH" back into the water. They where also told "NOT" to release there fish anywhere in the RedBud bay area to be at least 1 mile from RedBud. I did not see any team bring in more than 1 dead fish during this tournament. YES I AGREE that A lot of anglers don't know that fish at Clear Lake need to be fizzed they only cought the fish in 20' of water. MOST lakes that depth would not be an issue but for fish at Clear Lake it clearly was. DFG was there at the wiegh-ins along with other people tring to help out with the fish that needed to be fizzed. DFG and Vince where talking after the event was all over so I'm sure DFG is doing what they need to do to HELP with the issues of the dead fish. I think that A few anglers will be getting some infomational packits in the mail. DFG was there taking pictures of the anglers that were "NOT" doing what they were asked to do by the people running the wiegh-ins. DFG was right there to hear the people running the wiegh-ins tell the anglers what to do with the fish.
Oh and for the live release boat I think that the only place that even has one is at Oroville and is owned by A local club(but I maybe wrong about the owners) I know A few guys that work for DFG and they don't even have A live release boat for tournaments to use.

OK now guys FIRE AWAY at me I can take it!!!!!!

Terry Smith

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:24 am

ash wrote:
Hollywood wrote:
Brian wrote:Hmmm if its 95% the anglers fault, Maybe the DFG should stop allowing AM tourneys all together then.

best suggestion yet!
Spoken like a true liberal - regulate tighter and encourage the bureaucracy to decide which tournaments are worthy of being issued permits - the first no is the hardest, after that it becomes easy to say no to the next one, and the next one....if you listen closley you can hear the stomping of the jack boots in the background growing louder and louder

Yea, I'm liberal alright.

Thats funny right there.

But I'll tell you what, The damn DFG has become liberal, in fact they now take donations from the HSUS if that tells you anything. So if this 100+ dead fish thing keeps happening with any regularity, then that is exactly what will start to happen. And when those boots get here they wont care if it's an AM tourney or a PRO tourney. Ok, I have to go cut down a tree now so I feel better about you calling me liberal.

Wolfeman · Post by **Wolfeman** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:30 am

Dom wrote:Ash hit it on the head!!! All yall are doing is bringing a negative vibe and black eye to the sport why would a fellow bass angler go public and down any brother of the sport ? What happen to the commerodity of the sport ? Vince is a good guy and he can take a take critiscim, I bet if you called him up and asked him how this happen he would be man enough to tell you point blank. Then he would listen to you could offer your advice so this may not happen again.

These days it seems like everyone just wants to get the rope and find a tree on everyone who makes a mistake. We may have different opinions on things but we all love bass fishing I mean you would have to to spend so much of your life on this fourm. LOL We all need to work togeather so our rights to fish are not taken from us by these left wing librials.

I cant remember who posted it but a year or so ago some one came on the political fourms and really opened my eyes and basicly they said you may not like guns but you might LOVE mountin biking and you protested to ban guns and they listened guns were banned and you were happy, then a year later they banned your riding trails! So be careful what you wish for it could come back and bite you in the arse! So you can say ban Am tournaments then later they may be on a roll and ban fishing all togeather. Education is key angler need thier fellow anglers to teach them how to care for there fish.

I will even go as far to tell you how to care for your fish

Fill your livewells before the first fish is cuaght !!!! I see so many guys throw a fish in the livewell then hit the fill on the livewell. This is BAD the fish flips and flops destroying is slime coat !

Add a additive catch and reliease or keep Alive I can vouch for Keep Alive this stuff takes the stress right out of the fish kind of sedates them abit.

When you catch your first bass if he is gut or gill hooked cut the line and leave the hook in the bass DO NOT TRY AND REMOVE IT!!!! The hooks are designed to detiorate fast and the bass has a better chance of survival .

Next if you can safely remove the hook do so and try not to bang the fish around use your nets we have gotten so use to the new braid lines the norm is to swing the fish in the boat and let it flap on the floor again destroying the slime coat and giving way to infection. I even see the big time bass pros on tv being quilty of this one.

If your going to use a culling bouy use use the clips or pierce the lower lip DO NOT STICK IT THRU THE GILL PLATE!!!!

Place the fish in the live well gently dont open the lid and just throw him in the well, again I have seen PROS quilty of this one

If your bass is caught deep like so many spots are caught in the summer on our resivors you will know it right away the fish will not up right him self he will be on his side in the well. If this is the case pull out your deflate needle and stick him here is a great link that teaches you how to Fizz the bass

http://s6.zetaboards.com/Bass_Busters/topic/8524510/1/

After fizzing then place the bass back in the livewell and make sure he is upright.

I like to keep a floating thermoeter in my live well you can buy one from the pet department at wall mart for like a few bucks and check the temps of you water thru out the day 82 is the max you want your water temps in the well any hotter then that and the mortaility rate increases by 50% so if you are reading a surface temp in the wells of more then 82 degress ADD ICE!!! to cold is better then to hot !

Turn on you airation system most of the time the wells can be cooled down a few degrees by bring in fresh lake water.

Check your fish often I dont see any of the pros on TV ever stopping to check thier catch

More tips add additional air systems like stones or the oxyginator,etc....

If your batteries are on the down side replace em you should never go into a tournament thinking I need to conserve power I have bad batteries ! Pass on the tourney and use that entry money to buy new ones and catch the next tourney.

It seems like a lot and I know in a tournament situation we are all wired to fish fish fish and we forget about the little things but if you practice this it will become as normal as putting the plug in the boat !!!!! and not take but a few seconds to preform each task.

Hope this helps

Pretty funning Dom. You make this 'let's all pull together and we can solve this problem' post after blaming all of the countries troubles on the President. Nice.
"These days it seems like everyone just wants to get the rope and find a tree on everyone who makes a mistake."

Rick Wolfe (aka Wolfeman)

JohnnyG1 · Post by **JohnnyG1** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:51 am

Well let see how many dead fish are at the next Delta event since FPT and WRL are at the delta? We will see what org is doing it's job. And if the anglers are doing what they need to do to prevent this from happening again.
just my .02

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:09 am

[double post]

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:11 am

Terry Smith wrote:DFG and Vince where talking after the event was all over so I'm sure DFG is doing what they need to do to HELP with the issues of the dead fish. I think that A few anglers will be getting some infomational packits in the mail. DFG was there taking pictures of the anglers that were "NOT" doing what they were asked to do by the people running the wiegh-ins. DFG was right there to hear the people running the wiegh-ins tell the anglers what to do with the fish.

Ok, DFG has spoken with the organization and has photographic evidence of people directly ignoring their advice on proper fish handling. What happens when his customer base ignores the advice and it happens again? Do they pull his permits? Does he get fined?

Levy wrote:I completely agree that it is the anglers fault for bringing in dead fish if they did not take proper care of them however it is the orgs RESPONSIBILITY to ensure EVERYTHING is done to protect the resource they are profitting on.

So many people are missing the point above.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:15 am

Wolfman NOTE the "SERIOUSLY" after it. Point and Case LMAO

It was a joke Duh

READ DUDE

But thanks for taking note of what you "thought" was contradiction and not saying anything about the helpful information I provided

Having a bad day are we?

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:34 am

Fish_food I'm not sure what DFG is doing with FPT. I'm sure fines and possible permits being pulled are something that can happen. Guess we will just have to wait and see. Also don't forget the ANGLER is still responsibile for his/her actions and CAN be fined personally on top of the org. It is NOT up to ANY organization to make sure that the anglers know the STATE FISHING REGULATIONS!!!!!!!!

Terry

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:23 pm

The funniest part of this whole subject is the guys that have fished FLW as boaters whining that the Org. should have told them they needed to take special care of their fish. Why are these guys fishing an AM tournament?

The saddest part of this whole subject is that DFG was on site and let this thing play out without intervention. I have been asked to see my license by these guys after jumping out of a $50,000 boat to weigh in( this year I am licensed in 14 states) but they can't stop 100 fish from floating? Nobody feel that DFG might hold a little responsibility here by allowing this to occur OR that it just doesn't matter that a few fish died?

If only 20 of those guys were meat fishing instead of participating in that tournament there would still be 100 dead bass. Just so happens that a lot more than 20 guys got to participate in an activity we all enjoy and most of them put their fish back in the water rather than taking it home to show their neighbors before chucking it in the dumpster.

Get off your shaky pedestals, accept the fact that fish die and it is OK. Accept the fact that DFG has as much blood on their hands as the anglers and Org. We need to worry about a much bigger problem. Guys that can't grow up and play with other anglers of their skill level or better. Anybody that has fished an individual weight event as a boater has no business fishing an amateur event nor whining that "somebody" should have told them how to take care of a fish.

Wolfeman · Post by **Wolfeman** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:30 pm

Dom wrote:Wolfman NOTE the "SERIOUSLY" after it. Point and Case LMAO It was a joke Duh READ DUDE

But thanks for taking note of what you "thought" was contradiction and not saying anything about the helpful information I provided Having a bad day are we?

Just pulling your chain Dom. You always provide a wealth of info on this site. I know because I read all of your posts. Keep it up. This site needs 'info providers' like you.
And, I'm always having a good day. It's the Hawaiian shirts I wear.

- Wolfeman

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:13 pm

Lmao No problem Wolfman right back atcha

Now im rigging my rods hittin the Delta tomorrow

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:18 pm

Dom wrote:Lmao No problem Wolfman right back atcha Now im rigging my rods hittin the Delta tomorrow

Go get em Dom!! I need to get out on the Delta again soon.

Wolfeman · Post by **Wolfeman** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:22 pm

Dom wrote:Lmao No problem Wolfman right back atcha Now im rigging my rods hittin the Delta tomorrow

Dom,
Good luck tomorrow. Get some pigs.
If you are out there on Saturday look for my red Ranger. I'll be somewhere in the middle Delta, at least until the crazies come out; then I'm heading home.
See ya on the River.
- Wolfeman

WackySenko · Post by **WackySenko** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:06 pm

I seem to remember a tournament, one of my early ones quite afew years back, with Randy McBride as the TD. It was out of Stockton. The tournament staff were throwing the fish, including 5#+ fish, back into the Delta from one of the holding tanks. The tank was on the flat area that was at least 7' above the water. There were people down there using stocks to pull the stunned and floating fish to shore so they could put them in a bucket to take home. When my wife and I said something to the guys throwing the fish we were told that they had to get the fish back in the water as soon as possible. So I brought this to Randy's attention. Randy said that he would look into it, but never went over to the guys.
I have fished and attended FPT tournaments. Vince and his crew have always instructed the anglers to take care of the fish. It is unfortunate but even the best of anglers have fish die. Nobody wants or likes bringing dead fish to the scales.
With computers it would be easy to track anglers with dead fish. If an angler consistantly has dead fish, the best penalty would be to not allow him to fish your circuits tournaments.

Noluk · Post by **Noluk** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:15 pm

Politics aside, personal issues aside... Anyone ever had a fish die in the livewell? How about in the summer? I don't think there is an angler alive who hasn't lost one despite their best efforts. I am not going to bash anyone about that. Keeping fish alive in the summer is HARD. SUPER SUPER HARD. Fish survival rates (for non bleeding fish is all about one thing. Dissolved oxygen. When the water temps rise dissolved oxygen levels go down. This is the main reason DFG has 6 hour tournaments during the summer. This is why many orgs have a 3 fish per boat rule in the summer. It doesn't take much in the summer to really stress and damage a fish. Some of the fish that swim away after a tournament still suffer delayed mortality. So what can you, the angler do? Here are some tips. Not all inclusive.

Cool the water in the livewells. That doesn't mean to put 3 bags of chlorinated ice in your livewell and drop the water temp from 80 to 55. That means developing a consistent controlled method for lowering the water temp 10 degrees or so. An excellent way is using frozen water bottles. Place the whole frozen water bottle, plastic and all, in the livewell. take the old one out and put in a new one or two every hour or so. Yes this means having 20 or so frozen water bottles ready to go.

Do not fill your livewells, ice the water and put them on recirculate all day. Fish exhale in the water and increase the amount of dissolved ammonia. Fish do not like ammonia any more than you do and not even the biggest drughead is going to want to breathe ammonia. Drain at least half the water out of the livewell several times a day and refill it with fresh water. Then cool it and treat it with chemicals if that is something you like to do.

Run your livewells far more than you do in the winter. Hot water means less oxygen and more active fish. They breathe more but there is less oxygen at the same time. You need to make sure you are getting oxygen back into the water either through bringing in fresh water or placing oxygen back into the water they are currently using. There are many oxygen adding systems etc. out there. Determine your own research and investment level to determine what if any extras you want to buy for your livewells. I am betting most of us are going to keep running our current systems. Make sure that if your system does not add oxygen that you bring in lots of fresh water so the fish get new fresh oxygen.

Weigh in. This one is partly up to how the orgs set up for weigh in. The target time for weigh in is 3 minutes in the bag. That means from when you put the first fish in the bag until you are done with weigh-in and the fish are back swimming in your livewell or the lake totals 3 minutes. Summer should probably be even quicker. Air tubes and holding tanks can extend this a bit but we all know what is right and wrong. Try the simple test of whenever you have a fish out of the water... you don't get to breathe. I think that will make the significance of fish care immediately apparent to some folks...

Most anglers understand all of this and try their best to make it happen. It is up to each of us. Hopefully a few people who did not know some of these basics (and there are lots more) will be able to use something from it and keep an extra fish or two alive for another day.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:03 pm

I can't/won't comment on what happened this past weekend at the FPT tournament because I was not in attendance. I can say I just helped run two good sized tournaments up there on back to back weekends with the WRL and we had no such problems. DFG has stood and watched over us and have been nothing but complimentary on how we're running those weigh ins.

You can run tournaments up there this time of year without huge fish kills. It takes planning and it takes folks willing to follow instruction. We got a good group of anglers fishing the WRL that actually listen to most every direction they're given. Weigh ins are fast, there is generally little to no waiting to get your fish weighed in and re-hydrated and into a release boat. The guys with the ClearLake Bassmasters that run the release boat up there do a heckuva job working with stressed fish. We work diligently with them to coordinate the temperature of our water trough systems and their release boat.

Any fishing and retaining of fish this time of year is going to be harder on the fish. And fish will die sometimes even in the best of conditions. When stuff happens like this past weekend it should serve as a wake up call to everyone to re-examine their handling of fish when they intend to retain those fish all day in a livewell.

sTony

ken a · Post by **ken a** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:02 pm

I would recommend giving the TD at least a stern warning that this fish kill situation will not be tolerated. As far as who to blame you must go to the top man, in this case the TD. or nothing will EVER be done about it. This bull about educating fisherman about fish kill sounds good but unless there is a significant penalty they will not change.
Now for having fish and game fine fisherman good luck. To my knowledge the fisherman can eat the fish or dispose of them(not in the lake) as they want. So show me where it is illegal to kill your limit of fish. Too bad but that is the way I see it.

CN · Post by CN » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:39 am

Well I dont think I had to be there to be confused when someone tell's me the TD should not be blamed somewhat for the high death rate. And to add to it some say an alarming pecentage of this is angler's lack of knowledge on how to keep these fish alive. Not a good combonation if you ask me.

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:27 am

OK people the number of dead fish was far less than 100. The story gets bigger and bigger everytime. Vince was on the docks doing his job with over A 100 boats. Staff was telling people to NOT release dead fish back into the water and to release LIVE fish NO LESS than 1 mile from RedBud. What else can A TD do? Wiegh-ins are fast for having over 100 boats. Fish are NOT allowed to be out of the water for more than 3 minutes. They have air stones in the waiting tanks for the anglers to put in there bags to help the fish. And at no time was there more than 3 teams in the tub at the same time. In the end it is up to the anglers to do the best to keep there fish alive. I don't care what event you fish in, work for, or just support them because they are your friends NO TD can make an angler follow all of the rules. People will do whatever they wan't and we all know that.

Have A GREAT DAY, Terry

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:44 pm

Terry Smith wrote:NO TD can make an angler follow all of the rules. People will do whatever they want and we all know that.

That's a sad notion if it's true and if you believe it to be the norm, Terry.

sTony

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

ken a wrote:I would recommend giving the TD at least a stern warning that this fish kill situation will not be tolerated. As far as who to blame you must go to the top man, in this case the TD. or nothing will EVER be done about it. This bull about educating fisherman about fish kill sounds good but unless there is a significant penalty they will not change.
Now for having fish and game fine fisherman good luck. So show me where it is illegal to kill your limit of fish. Too bad but that is the way I see it.

Actually Ken, if you have ever run or acquired a permit, you should know that there are regulations & guidelines within that permit that must be followed. DFG can certainly take the appropriate action against the Org or Contestants, if they are on site and personally witness any violations of those permit regulations. Whether they chose ta do so, is a bigger debate.

This is an age old problem. No single organization, has been immune to this happening. This has happened many times here and reported on this sight as far back as 96 when we were NCBF.COM and a group always feels the need to Crucify the TD & Org. ClearLake, is notorious for providing this type of situation to occur, it happens up there EVERY SINGLE Summer, no org has been untouched by one of these occurrences up there. Over the years, we've had repeated occurrences with deep caught fish during tournaments at McClure and Oroville, long before FPT was on the scene. Clubs, across this state, run in to this as well, although on a much smaller scale, yet the percentages of alive:dead ratio, will be the same. Fortunately for most club, it goes un-noticed and they do the best they can to improve for the next outing. Fish mortality in tournaments, is inevitable, unless both groups are on their toes and always thinking ahead to be prepared, as well as willing to act in defense of preventing this type of occurrence.

It's a situation that sneaks up on the tournament scene. It always has, and it always will. Education is the ultimate solution, IT IS NOT BULL! DFG does the best they can with their permit regulations, bag limit requirements and tournament length limit in the summer. Unfortunately, we don't have a normal, functioning DFG here who's only interest is solely on Fish & Game. DFG is controlled by the State politicians, who syphon the money we put into the DFG coffers for the State's failing general fund. Money, that certainly when acquired in any other state, would be normally directed to activities, functions and promotions to prevent angling situations that are distressful to the fisheries such as what occurred at Clearlake. Unfortunately, a lot of critical, as well as asinine decisions are not made by game biologists, but public officials, idiots that we elect into office. Bottom line here, the CA DFG, is incapable of educating the anglers at this time. The DFG does what they can, but there is more they can do.

Unfortunately for tournament organizations, they take the biggest hit in all of this. I believe it is the intent of every single organization out there, to impose and protect our fisheries as best they can. Unfortunately, at the local state level, they too are bind by the constraints of lack of funds to insure every single possible avenue is covered, in every single tournament through out the year. None of our local orgs have the kind of draw that orgs like BASS & FLW have to where they can recruit, from with in their state ranks, a very large volunteer working crew for each of their events. Over the years, the various different orgs have implemented a wide array of preventive functions for their weigh-in processes, that are intended to help insure fish mortality in their events. Yet they still need to be educated themselves, clearly, there is still more they too can do.

I believe there are two steps they can do to help get their events on track for every outing. They should put together a check list, that every single angler in their event must read and sign, it would be done at check in right along with the waiver and sign up signatures. Make it a carbon copy so the anglers take it with them, no excuses now. Ice, functional livewells, fish juice, needles, release procedures, etc, what ever they chose to put in there in an effort to remind and educate the anglers. Secondly, do away with dry livewell checks at the top of the ramp. All livewell checks are done in the water and those pumps had better be running with full force. Fix it now or you don't get to fish, refund their money and send em home. They should also contact Tony Stoltz and inquire to the use and function of his new tank system. I've seen this thing first hand at the C.O.Pro-Teen, a couple of AC Pro-Ams and I now the folks at WON hired him for his tanks down at the U.S. Open. DFG can step up and dictate they have a system like this at every event, whether they rent Tony's, have him build one or build it themselves. That system is awesome! These three steps alone will help them at every event to be prepared and assure they are taking the ultimate actions to prevent a big fish kill due to the Orgs actions or lack there of.

As for the anglers, they indeed, must be further educated and reminded, constantly. The anglers lack of fish care through out their event, is the root cause of the problem when we have fish kills like this. We get so caught up with our egos and the spur of the competition moment, that during this time of year, if we slip and forget for as little as a 30 minute window, putting our fish under undue stress, we've started the kill process, period!!!!!!!!!!!! It indeed are the anglers, who must take it upon themselves, to assure that for every single minute a bass to be weighed in during a tournament they are participating in, that fish is taken care of for the full duration that you have him in your boat's livewell. The fish's death, begins in our boats, and if anglers can not comprehend this, they need to get out of the tournament scene or suffer a far greater penalty, be it DFG fines or tournament penalties and disqualifications. That indeed is an education most anglers will comprehend.

If everyone works together through education, this problem can be overcome. If we all stop pointing the finger, getting all pissy and chest thumping like on the internet and instead work towards a solution, we can indeed prevent massive fish kills like this at our events in the future. Just do it people!

Turkeyman · Post by **Turkeyman** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:22 pm

Regardless of who is to blame for the fish kill, I think the anglers should have taken it upon themselves to clean up the situation that transpired. If there was "100" dead fish then only 20 fishermen could of picked up 5 fish each and cleaned them and used the resource. Personally I do not like fish and VERY seldom eat any, but we all know people who like fish and we all know families that could use some fresh fish to help out. So why is everyone ready to throw the TD under the bus, when nobody is ready to look at themselves and say "I should of done something to protect our sport and our resources."

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:13 am

Stop summer time tournaments. Do we honestly need them, is there not enough tournaments now?

bonsaibp · Post by **bonsaibp** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:11 am

If tournaments turned into "paper tounraments" with only big fish brought to the scales it would go a very long way to avoiding this stuff.

ken a · Post by **ken a** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:41 am

Thanks Cooch, you are right on with things to help avoid a big fish kill. The best of all is checking the livewell operation in the water. most of us have had a problem with livewell pumps failing or plugged up at one time or another. I still say the TD is the boss and not an easy one at that, but who else can explain and enforce the rules.

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