Yamaha vs. Mercury?

garyd · Post by **garyd** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:54 pm

I am looking into purchasing my second bass boat and was wondering if anyone has advise on which outboard is the best, Yamaha or Mercury. I will be in the 115 to 150 horsepower range and I'm open to 2 or 4 stroke. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:43 pm

Boy something tells me we opened a can of worms. That being said I have a 250 VMAX SHO from Yamaha but for a 150 hp I would look at the new 4 stroke Mercs. They just came out with a new 150 4 stroke and it looks to be pretty cool.

adman · Post by **adman** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:48 pm

Yamaha. Period.

Revoke36 · Post by **Revoke36** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:34 pm

Yamaha here. It's apples to apples though

Skeeterman · Post by **Skeeterman** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:37 pm

When it comes to four strokes Yamaha is the way to go.

Mike Tuck · Post by **Mike Tuck** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:26 pm

I'm very glad the above Yamaha supporters have not had the same issues I had. However, before you make your decision about how to spend your hard earned $, I would advise you to look deeper at the company, the consumer confidence in the product, and their customer service.

Compare similar boat manufacturer models with similar options/ equipment each with the difference being a different engine. My personal survey has revealed that consumer confidence is highest with the Mercury brand through speed of sale of boats equipped with mercury outboards and the sale price of the used boat. This is not an exact study, but my own analysis having just re-powered my boat in the last month.

Mercury has made a commitment to western anglers by supporting them with a mobile tech support team at all major western tournaments.

My personal experience or score card....
Boat#1 w/ Merc, no significant problems
Boat#2 w/ Merc, no significant problems
Boat#3 w/ Merc, replaced reeds at 5 years old and over 700 hours.
Boat#4 w/ Yamaha, .......
-8 blown power heads over a 5 year period starting in year 2 of the engine life and @200 hours
- complete mid-section rebuild at year 4 due to bushings wearing out, at year six needed another one
- 3 complete hydraulic trim replacements
- 1 lower unit, from a broken prop shaft

The rest of the story............. in the beginning of my last year of warranty with my 5th blown power head in 3 years I requested a new engine as the recurring problem had not been fixed or been given an explanation for why it cant be corrected. I was told by a supervisor of the Yamaha customer relations division that they will no longer honor any warranty claims against this engine as it is now in the extended warranty portion (Y.E.S.) of my warranty contract. They backed this up with a copy of the contract and circled a section of the contract that reads something like this... at no time shall Yamaha be responsible for claims related to the vehicle/motor after having attempted repairs up to the original value of the vehicle/motor.
their solution was for ME to buy another new Yamaha engine at a discounted price. Also, they would extend the offer from 30 days to 90 days before it expires.

I had the engine rebuilt 3 times after this with no help from Yamaha's technical support, I was told to ask my service dealership about any technical questions as it was their problem now since they (Yamaha) had previously denied warranty coverage.

After the most recent blown power head in May, I called customer relations again and explained my situation and how much $ I had spent replacing parts, rebuilding the engine etc. Their response was that the previous offer expired and to contact my local dealer for a price on a new or used engine. ( before the call I was prepared to look past the complete disregard for customer support and accept the previous offer as it was the most financially responsible choice)

The time came to make a decision on which engine to re-power with. After thoroughly studying consumer confidence and consulting my peers, I chose to re-power with a new Mercury Pro XS.

I feel it's worth noting that I had to spend approximately $3,000.00 more to go with the Merc, (rather than a new Yamaha) since my boat was rigged with Yamaha controls and equipment. I justified this expense not only with consideration to past dealings with Yamaha's customer support but more importantly the average sale price of comparative boats equipped with an Mercury outboard was an average of $3,000.00 higher than one with a Yamaha.

I understand that all manufacturers will experience mechanical problems with their products, but expecting the customer to burden the expense is unreasonable, especially with conditions relating to an unresolved problem occurring during the original warranty period.

Choose wisely,

Mike Tuck
Former Yamaha Customer

garyd · Post by **garyd** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:07 pm

Thanks for all the responses. Mike, quite a reply. Much appreciated and definately food for thought.

Vince Borges · Post by **Vince Borges** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:17 pm

I know a lot of Yamaha owners who are very happy with there motors and mNy who have had nothing but headaches. The same goes for Mercury. I know one guy who has a 2004 250 opti who has had 4 power heads And two lower units! You will always have lemon issues whith either brand. It is just a fact of anything that is mechanical. The difference is, every person I know that has had issues with there Merc has ALWAYS been taken care of by Mercury! So, based on what I know, and what Mike has experienced, I don't think I would ever consider a Yamaha. Let's face it, there both great engines, they both go fast, and you would probably be happy with either one. But after all is said and done the only thing left to satisfy you is CUSTOMER SERVICE! Oh and by the way! I've seen Yamaha Pro-Staff trying to sell people on the new show, and then I saw there boat less that one year old, already in the shop waiting for a new Power Head!

1990Ranger370 · Post by **1990Ranger370** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:43 pm

Yamaha

Have a 1990 175 Pro V still running strong. Any Company is going to have there ups and downs. This can be the same as Chevy Vs Ford. Its all going to be presonal opinion. I have a friend that has a 2005 Mercury 250hp on his Ranger that says theres no better engine. Also there nicked name opi-pop for a reason! Good luck with your purchase.

Skeeterman · Post by **Skeeterman** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:11 am

Also there nicked name opi-pop for a reason! Also known as opti-bombs.

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:45 am

I have always had Mercury. That said, When I go out of country, I am seeing more and more Yamahas. Fourstrokes and the 40hp to 60hp range seems to be going Yamaha at Fish camps I have been to

Revoke36 · Post by **Revoke36** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:31 am

@Mike Tuck, why didn't you pull the Lemon Law card on Yamaha?

HawgCatcher · Post by **HawgCatcher** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:46 am

Yamaha!! Turn the key reliability.

Dave Wilson · Post by **Dave Wilson** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:36 am

Well, I've had 5 Yamahas and about 7 Mercs, with 4 Envinrudes thrown in, so here's my .02's worth. IF it's an ocean boat- Yamaha 4 strokes are the far superior engines of all in all HP ratings. If it's a 2 stroke, well then Mercury in any sort of boat, but EXTEND the warranty! If it's a bass boat for big tourneys a Mercury Pro XS, as Merc. often has a team there for you. The regular Opti's I had burn MUCH more fuel and oil than the 3 XS models I've had too. Also, about everyone is a Merc. authorized dealer, and parts are easy to get. Envinrude- well, good luck finding dealers anymore is all I have to say, although I like the quiet nature of the eTec.

Mike Tuck · Post by **Mike Tuck** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:28 pm

Why didn't I play the Lemon law card on Yamaha? I received a good amount of legal counsel relating to this issue. the two conclusions were this.
1. No lemon law as it relates to outboard engines exists.
2. There are manufacturers defect laws and related consumer protection measures that could have been pursued. In previous similar cases it has been extremely expensive and drawn out as well as challenging to secure an expert Yamaha technician willing to testify against the company he/she is a certified technician for. In the end, for me, I wasn't willing to put up possibly $100,000.00 to try and win a judgement surrounding a $15,000 engine.

Was fighting Yamaha the right thing to do from a moral standpoint? yes. without question
Was fighting Yamaha the right thing to do from a financial risk vs. reward standpoint? No.

Would I ever recommend someone buy a Yamaha product? not in a million years

As far as the older 175 hp and under EFI engines go, Hell, they were all good back then. It wasn't until the late 90's when consumers demanded bigger, faster, and more fuel efficient engines that the perpetual mechanical failures began. Two stroke technology was never intended to push beyond 150-175 horse power. It's really all that can be expected when you start pushing the technology to the outer limits and beyond, constantly leaning out the engines to reach its maximum potential only increases the failure rate.

Also, I believe the question was asked regarding a purchasing decision of a new Yamaha or Mercury.

Mike Tuck

Revoke36 · Post by **Revoke36** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:51 pm

Sorry brother. I'm sure filing for the Lemon Law would've been a major pain. As far as I understood it, it covers boats (don't see why an outboard wouldn't qualify. That's a downer) and once you're the Lemon Law is put into place you receive all monies back. Including legal fees. But unfortunately that means you have to put up your own money first so I feel you there. Bummer. Hope you have nothing but great mechanical fortune here on out

swordfish · Post by **swordfish** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:19 pm

I've been a dyed in the wool black motor guy since way back, 80's .. as far as four strokes go it's Yama hands down over the Verado. The 225 and 250 optis are strong runners and Merc. builds a great motor they are also an American Tradition....

TTaylor · Post by **TTaylor** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:27 am

I've only owned Mercury's. All engines have their problems. As Mike's post above, it comes down to customer service and whether they stand behind their product. On my next boat, I'll probably put a Mercury on it, but that's not 100%. I'll look at all motors and see what fits the best

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:02 am

I have my 1st Mercury motor EVER, I really do like it so far.

HEH · Post by **HEH** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:42 am

Every engine make will have good and bad examples of reliability. Like baits, if you have confidence in your engine mfg., you have a better chance of having good results. I sold boats and motors (Johnson, Suzuki, Mercury) several years ago in the LA area and had customers swear by, and at, each.

I still run the original 115 Yamaha on my 86 Ranger and it has been amazingly reliable. Based on my experience, I would buy another if I could afford one. Biggest mark against Yamaha (IMHO) is initial cost, and finding repair shops. You can always find a Merc dealer and shop, sometimes have to search for Yamaha.

2 cycle engines have gotten bad press the past few years, but in my book, the cost, fewer moving parts, weight still make them the choice for a bass boat. Just saying!

HH

Team Davies · Post by **Team Davies** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:17 pm

I have owned 4 Yamaha's over the last 10 years I still own my 2002 200 hpdi and a 2008 225 hp 4 stroke never had any problems. As for the 4 stroke I fished the Anglers Choice TOC at Lake Havasu, Ran 1 day of pre-fish and 2 days of the tournament on one tank of gas (25 gals). Ran from the Windsor ramp to the Bill Williams 2 of those days and I didn't use any oil. Every motor has good ones and bad ones. I've been lucky to always get the good ones I guess. The reason I went with Yamaha's long ago was my mechanic that worked on my old Merc 9.9 told me not very many people know how to work on Yamaha"s is because they don't need worked on that often.

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:03 pm

I have grown up watching mechanics, on the farm. Handing them wrenches, finding that dropped bolt, learning diagnostics on the job.

Some years ago, I watched Mark Nicolette troubleshoot a motor rather quickly, and nail it.

After that, I bought three more Bass boats.

Each one had a Mercury.

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:21 pm

As for the OPTI POP!!!it had a lot to do with owners not using Opti oil and not warming the engine up to running temperature before running them at WOT. I love my opti and have friends that have had a lot of problems with there Yamaha two strokes"blown heads lower end problems etc..." Yamaha burn more oil and gas compared to the opti in same size engine from what I've seen. As for the four strokes I have no idea. If Yamaha still made the original 175 Pro V I would buy that engine in A heart beat to put on the back of my Kitty but since they don't OPTIMAX ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:16 pm

Maybe the forum has slowed down a bit, a post like this seemed like it used to go about 3 pages in a few days.

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:23 pm

All I know is I will be getting my new Propane powered Mercury in about 10 days

.

offduty · Post by **offduty** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:05 pm

Rod Martin wrote:All I know is I will be getting my new Propane powered Mercury in about 10 days

.

Rod

Let us know how you like it and what benefits you get out of it. It sounds pretty cool and I suppose there is no ethanol in propane either.

Rod Martin · Post by **Rod Martin** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:45 pm

C&C Marine just did a 25hp I had on my tracker bass buggy. for that it worked great . Never goes bad, burns clean, if its like my propane powered Gen. it will last forever. Not sure I would put one on a fiberglass Bass boat but any small alum. bass boat or open boat I would.
Had mine done on a pondtoon boat I keep at the house in Fl. Each time I went back I had to clean carb and dump fuel. Not anymore I did a vapor set up runs off the same tank as my BBQ. Boat never comes off the water so it much easier to swap tanks than hauling gas

This one is going on a small pontoon style fishing boat that is replaceing my Bass boat. My bad knees and Back are making it hard to step up and down to the front deck, Now I dont have to and I fish more with less pain

http://www.protatch.com/alumasport515.htm I am getting the 615, I dont rrun hard anymore or fish touraments so this works for me

You should see it out of ladds or on up at Pedro, it doesnt stop the big ones from bitting

scott h · Post by **scott h** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:08 pm

I have had three mercs, each one broke in properly,always warmed up prior to any running and double the regular maint, mainly the water pump and lower unit oil and seals.The main reasoning behind the double lower unit service as recomended is we run these boats through some tough stuff and with the new 250 realm that is alot of horsepower through the smallest part of the power train so I change my lower oil every 50 hours and water pump every 100.I am a firm beleiver in regular scheduled maintenance as long as you keep up on that it will save you time and money in the long run.Long story short I have never had any major problems with mercury. the worst problem I have ever had was an oil line from the lower to upper resivoir split while running, the alarms sounded I shut it down repaired the line on the water and was good to go.my current motor has 500 hours in 6 years with no major problems and my last motor had well over 700 hours and still runs as good as the day I bought it.

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:20 pm

Wouldn't it be interesting to see real data on failure rates for comparable engines over time so as to be able to make a data driven decision?

That's the nerd in me. You would have to think these companies are analyzing defects and trying to drive quality over time. Failure modes and effects analysis (FMEA) or similar method.

We'll never see that data, so these conversations are based on people's personal experience. "Mine blew up or mine didn't" kind of conversations.

I did like Mike Tuck's comment about used boat price being generally higher with a Merc engine. I watched boat classifieds for several years and would say, anecdotally, that I observed the same thing. You want a ProXS on a used boat, you'll pay more for it. This is true across the country. This seems like the most objective assessment of quality since the used boat market eliminates most of the the 'pro-staff bias' in the conversation.

Anyway, time for me to trot out my personal experience. Yay. I own a 15hp Yamaha 4-stroke and a 225 Merc ProXS. Both are good but the Merc feels better designed. An esoteric assessment, I know... but it just has this feel of being engineered well. Oh, and the engine has a nice sound to it too. That's super important in case you didn't know.

Now, if it blows up on me next weekend, I'll come back and complain

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:40 am

swimbait wrote: Now, if it blows up on me next weekend, I'll come back and complain

Hipster · Post by **Hipster** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:51 am

Well,

Do not post much on here any longer but this is an intersting subject:

A lot boils down to how you treat and care for your equipment, if you run the heck out of them without proper care, warming them up in the winter, using fuel cleaner and stabile etc. you are gonna have problems no matter what brand. (exception would be those old VRO pumps back in the early 90's, Lemons!!)

My 2000 Mercury opti was a disaster from the beginning, you name it and it had to be repaired thus when it was time for a new boat I was powering it with a Yamaha.

I purchased a 05 Ranger with a Yamaha 200, blew it up with 19 hours on it. No one could believe it, Yamaha's were in destructable.

All the breakin procedures and printouts on the computer showed it was absolutely treated properly. Turned in the warranty claim and Yamaha could not believe it and actully flew a rep out to C&C marine to check it our for themselves(that's service). Now yes, this did keep me boatless for a longer period of time but I am a fanatic about maintenance and care of my boats. So when it comes to cutomer service I would say that Yamaha was pretty dam spot on it, Mike and Phil at C&C having a Yamaha rep come to there shop just for little ole me!!!!

They replaced the motor and it was the best darn motor I have ever driven.
Not the fastest but mid range power that blew my mind!!! you could stay on plane without the bobbing up and down at 2000 rpm, then incredible when you punched it!!!!

I loved that boat and Yamaha, but got greedy and wanted another new boat, Yamaha stopped selling two strokes and I had to go Merc Pro XS 200. The jury for me is still out, it is for sure a hot rod motor with the carbon fiber reeds etc. It is very fuel and oil effiecent but there was something about that two stroke YAMMY that I miss.

Well, there is a happy old retired guy who spends Summers in Arizona and winters in Oroville that has that gem of a Yamaha!!!

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