Sorry, another "A" rig thread.

davet. · Post by **davet.** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:59 am

What are your thoughts on this? This is a messsage I got on my youtube channel:

The Alabama Rig and A-Rig name is a Registered Trademark with the US Patent Office. Directing traffic through our name to gain views is illegal. You need to take off all your printed Alabama Rig names and tags. Your Calabama rig will also infringe on our patent when we receive it.

What kind of moronic marketing is this? I see it as free advertising for these idiots. I think the more that these terms are found on web searches and become household terms, the more traffic they will get to their business. Instead, it seems they want to alienate the very source of their income. So, as I have said before, they can shove it U.T.A.
If you google these "private" names, you will get hundreds of thousands, if not millions of hits. And youtube is adding thousands every day.

Jeez, I wish everybody would use my product name on every other video or post, then I could quit my day job.
I don't even mind if you use it in derogatory manors, like hey, I'm gonna go in the bathroom and take a big Power Skoop.

I will rebel against any heavy handed threats and persuade people to buy every version of the bait but theirs.

They can K.M.A.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:30 am

Amazing that thes idiots really believe they invented something!
Thank goodness that Texas and Carolina aren't in the same boat as these clowns! HAR! HAR! HAR!

I can understand the Registered Trade name of Alabama Rig and A-rig, I can't possibly see how the US Patent Office, could manage to give them a patent on something that's been around fer 50 years. Maybe that's where we kick em in the pants, letters to the Patent office showing the Saltwater Umbrella rigs! I must say, this was some "negativity" created by this rig, that I didn't think of! Theyr'e saying YOU can't even talk about it and use their name! HAR! HAR! HAR!

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:06 am

Knock it off guys. Hall of famer George Kramer said the debate is dead!

davet. · Post by **davet.** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:41 am

Hollywood wrote:Knock it off guys. Hall of famer George Kramer said the debate is dead!

The debate of "banning or not" was what that was about. I'm referring to morons trying own a term or rig that's been around for decades.......oh, wait, did you say "George Kramer?"

Wholly crap, I'm outta here, you guys never saw me.................

GKramer · Post by **GKramer** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:11 pm

The official name for "that thing" is now the "Cluster Rig." Cluster for short.

davet. · Post by **davet.** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:35 pm

Not after I copyright it and every other term in the english language, then life as we know it will cease to exist.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:37 pm

Hollywood wrote:Knock it off guys. Hall of famer George Kramer said the debate is dead!

Awe c'mon Wood, yer just kissin up ta git in his top 40 next year! HAR!

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:15 pm

Are you sure cooch? Im all for the rig being banned so since I support the "stupid" people in B.A.S.S.'s decision that would make me stupid too...

But then again I didn't sign no petition..

But then again this snagged fish would make the use of the rig "smart"

Cooch wrote:
Hollywood wrote:Knock it off guys. Hall of famer George Kramer said the debate is dead!
Awe c'mon Wood, yer just kissin up ta git in his top 40 next year! HAR!

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:54 pm

Hollywood wrote:Are you sure cooch? Im all for the rig being banned so since I support the "stupid" people in B.A.S.S.'s decision that would make me stupid too... But then again I didn't sign no petition..

Uhmmm, I'm not sure what ya just said brother, other than calling yerself stupid?

Nobody else did! HAR! HAR! HAR!

CN · Post by CN » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:28 pm

Hollywood wrote:Are you sure cooch? Im all for the rig being banned so since I support the "stupid" people in B.A.S.S.'s decision that would make me stupid too... But then again I didn't sign no petition..

But then again this snagged fish would make the use of the rig "smart"

Cooch wrote:
Hollywood wrote:Knock it off guys. Hall of famer George Kramer said the debate is dead!
Awe c'mon Wood, yer just kissin up ta git in his top 40 next year! HAR!

Good example of a potential downside to this lure. Not quit sure why this guy is treating this fish in this manner though.

Mike Nance

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:58 am

CN wrote:

Good example of a potential downside to this lure. Not quit sure why this guy is treating this fish in this manner though.

Mike Nance

The odds of that happening with a California legal A-rig are greatly reduced. As a comparison, how many fish have you caught on a pointer 128 that had at least one other hook buried in them somewhere besides the mouth? I know I've had lots of them.

As far as the treatment of that fish, I agree, but then again you can watch BASS Elite series anglers bounce fish in the boat and let them flop around on the carpet on just about every episode.

Mike Tuck · Post by **Mike Tuck** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:55 am

From my personal experience, I would say that even using only 3 baits with hooks that this happens about 30% of the time. I personally haven't had any multiple fish catches on one cast, but its the worst time of year for it right now too. Wait until they really start getting into prespawn mode.

Yes, we all have jacked fish on baits with treble hooks in places other than in the mouth, but that is while using only one bait. Imagine if someone figures out how to catch them with 3 jerkbaits, crankbaits, spooks, or rattle traps. Guys, fishermen are very creative and we have some of the very best out here in the west. These guys will figure out ways to use this thing that we can't even imagine yet.

My point was that this does happen regularly, and it could be worse. I know that I'm playing devil's advocate here an awful lot. I'm trying to do that so we can all see it from all of the angles. I've learned a lot over the last two weeks from the people whom support the rig in derbies, and that has helped me keep an open mind from both points of view. It seems prudent that we could/would govern what is in our control (tournament fishing) to some degree; and allow DFG to do there own part and studies relating to it for all of recreational fishing based on scientific evidence that they have access to. If it really is damaging to the populations of bass they would be the only ones whom truly know. All we actually have is a somewhat of an educated opinion of what we think the effects are going to be.

If two years down the road DFG comes out and says this A-Rig has depleted our overall fish populations for this reason or that; Bass tournaments will be the scapegoats. After all we introduced it, supported it, provided the exposure, and then the industry mass produced the rigs in countless configurations for all to use. Org's like PETA will have a field day with that.

What do we really have to lose by taking a conservative wait and see approach?

Back when Ray Scott and the pioneers of tournament fishing started this sport, they took a very active role in protecting the resource by setting creel limits, incorporating live wells, and advocating catch and release. Back in those days Tournament fishing was praised by the governing bodies and those involved alike; for their conservation efforts. Now, look at what we are becoming, or have become. DFG feels it necessary to show up to most of our events because we don't care for our fish well enough. Maybe it's a good thing they do.

Mike Tuck

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:13 am

Mike Tuck wrote: If two years down the road DFG comes out and says this A-Rig has depleted our overall fish populations for this reason or that; Bass tournaments will be the scapegoats. After all we introduced it, supported it, provided the exposure, and then the industry mass produced the rigs in countless configurations for all to use. Org's like PETA will have a field day with that.

Interesting points Mike, but the Genie is out of the bottle. Getting the rig banned in bass tournaments will not stop non-tournament people from using it. Three lures on one line has been legal in California forever, this is just a new way of attaching them. Trot lines are going to kill more fish this year than the A-rig. I doubt that if there is a noticeable decline in fish population in a few years it will be because of tournament anglers who practice catch and release, but will more than likely be connected to catch and kill folks. Remember, that license permits the bearer to kill 5 fish per day, 365 days per year.

I do agree to a point though. If there is a documented increase in post tournament mortality that can be connected directly to the A-rig, it needs to be canned.

Mike Tuck · Post by **Mike Tuck** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:11 pm

I don't necessarily think an increase in fish mortality could ever be documented as a direct result of an individual tournaments fish being caught either due to catch and release. I was speaking about more of an indirect cause effect scenario. Tournaments will be made the scapegoats for exploiting this new rig and even further for encouraging its use in competitions. All of which led to the overall exposure of the rig to the everyday fisherman. Tournaments would be the ones viewed as the ultimate root of the problem. At that point who knows what could happen?

Just because we don't allow it in tournaments doesn't mean the meat fisherman or recreational fisherman will have to stop using it. Like you said" the cat is out of the bag now". But, at least as a group we could stand up and say "Hey, we saw that the A-rig was "potentially" damaging to the resource so we banned it from competitions until the DFG and fisheries biologist had time to monitor the effects of such an effective fishing method or rig". It may be too late to change the future of its recreational use, but why make the situation worse? Besides, if it is found to be harmful to the resource then it is the DFG's job to find out and make the best laws possible regarding its use to protect the resource.

Mike Tuck

Kwin · Post by **Kwin** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:20 pm

In a tournament scenario, the method used to catch a bass has far less to do with potential mortality than does the depth at capture, water temperature, D.O. content, tournament handling/fish care and effectiveness of relieving barotrauma prior to release. The detrimental physiological affects brought on by barotrauma, capture/retainment stress and poor needling technique far exceeds what method was used to catch them. It doesn't matter if they can potentially catch 3 at a time....I've caught as many as 9 fish in 9 casts on a single t-rigged worm in 20 minutes and 17 fish in 1.5 hours....I'm sure we all have had days like that. If I caught those fish in deep water, deep hooked them, threw them in the livewell without checking to see if they needed to be needled initially or check up on them throughout the day or don't know how to needle correctly and exhibited poor weigh-in practices, that will have the effect on bass populations, not the method used to catch it.

Mike Tuck · Post by **Mike Tuck** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:33 pm

Kwin,

you are 100% correct, but there are about 25 other thread topics covering fish care and handling. This is covering all things relating to why the A-rig should or shouldn't be allowed in derbies.

The A-rig does raise several concerns over fish care and handling and you can read all about them in the multiple threads going on.

Thanks for chiming in and reminding us not to lose sight of the fish care angle.

Tuck

ash · Post by **ash** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:00 pm

If we dont regulate ourselves we will be regulated by the state - the CA DFG states

"
All Contests:
1. Insofar as possible, all fish shall be returned to the water alive and in good condition. A limited number of trophy fish may be retained by the sponsor, as approved in advance by the Department.
2. Only artificial lures may be used.
3. Department employees may terminate a contest if, in his/her opinion, any permit condition has been violated or a substantial impact to the resource by the contest is observed or expected."

So what happens when the DFG or warden deams it an expected detriment to the resource of tournaments that allow the fishing of A-rigs in derbies during the spawn - and stop derbies due to the discretion of the state?

Perhaps there are some at the state level that are smoking big cigars and grinning, secertly whispering behind closed doors - "you know those bass guys that were giving us grief over the decline of black bass on the delta and were blaming it on the salinity levels due to a fresh water canal- well these guys have actually found a way to fish out the species for us, provide us with a scape goat and the best part is they are PAYING to do it....

just a clouded thought

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:01 pm

ash wrote: So what happens when the DFG or warden deams it an expected detriment to the resource of tournaments that allow the fishing of A-rigs in derbies during the spawn - and stop derbies due to the discretion of the state?

I would be willing to bet that some meat hunter bed fisherman will kill all five of the bed fish he catches without a A-rig. Maybe DFG should look into closing the season during the spawn for everyone.

Catch and release tournament fishermen are not the problem and never will be, don't try to spin it into something it isn't.