Center for Biological Diversity!!!

[J.Rios]

How many of us here have checked this Org out????


http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/



Be afraid be very afraid!!!!!


Refer to post on Endangered Clear Lake Hitch

[J.Rios]

BUMP!!

[Robb R]

click on the link and read thru "management " .
Most of them are a bunch of lawyers with nothing better to do but waste time and money . Our legal
system is so complex , organizations like this "hide" under the name they post . In reality , it's just a way to employ
lawyers/people to practice filing lawsuits for the betterment of mankind , bugs , animals , birds and BS.
Look thru what they claim as "success" .
When I was going to college (long time ago) , it used to be ---I want to be a Doctor or a lawyer !! Make my parents proud .
Man am I glad I didn't become a lawyer !!!
The legal system in the US is a JOKE. Built upon itself for only the benefit of more lawyers and judges.
Funny thing , they all think they are helping people !!! Reality , they are only helping themselves.
tight lines ,
Robb

[J.Rios]

by DanIsaac » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:32 pm

everyone needs to educate themselves on this.....Clear Lake is only first on the list, as they say. This is the same exact group which got the "trout plants" stopped years back,
and, they are the only organization to go head to head against the NRA and WIN outright.
325,000+ members strong, very educated with tons of resources. I've talked with 40 or 50 people regarding this and the most amazing response from all but 3 was "this will never happen", which is the exact attitude this group is hoping for.

As for the Indians......they want the "grant monies" which will be given out should the hitch
be put on the list. Studies, rehab, etc etc... Oh, and should this happen, all bets are off as the "Endangered Species Act" is already (protocol) layed out as to how and what will be done, and the parties involved do not care about the social-economic impact it will have on the community, and the came right out and admitted that last evening.

The meeting last evening was for the other side to lay out their case to the public...basically they tried to put lipstick on a pig, and say it was a sheep!

Now, if this goes to the next step, everyone who can needs to pack Lakeport and voice their opinions, locals and non-locals alike. If we play the part we so often have in the past
we will lose. This is NO time for the community, both the fishing community or the community in general to be apathetic.

I absolutely hate politics, but we had ALL better become involved when called upon this time.

Dan

[Robb R]

Dan ,
I am in complete agreement with what your saying .
But the problem is bigger than that. All these groups --- call em , special interests , unions , non-profits etc..
have one thing that the "normal" average person doesn't --- they get paid to sell the BS they believe in.
They are "forced" to group together and legally position what they think is the right position .
Think of the Humane Society . It used to be they were just into saving dogs and cats . Now they want to save anything that the lawyers within the organization can dream up just to keep themselves employed .
Bass fisherman in general don't think the same way . We think "big " brother (our Govt. officials ) are out to protect our rights and lives. NOTHING could be further from the truth , they only listen to the people who have money AND know how to manipulate the legal system . VERY SAD .
Remember when the DFG President shot that Mountain Lion ? Totally legal in every way . Then we had our Lt. Governer , Gavin Newsom on the channel 5 news asking for his resignation becuase HE didnt think a person that could do that had moral values --- this coming from a man who screwed his best friends wife and got caught! WOW what a system . AND guess who will probably run for Governer next term !! YEP , that dick swaying , adulterer , Gavin the man.
Vote the idiots out and get involved ---it's the only way ...
Robb

[CN]

Sad state of affairs going on in this State that's for sure. I just don't see how they could eradicate every single Largemouth in that lake. They would have to kill off all other species in the Lake also. Surley there is no poisen to kill one specific fish. Does or will Lake County have any say in this as far as hell no we don't want that to happen, probably not. I don't fish Clearlake but sure hope it goes away.

[Robb R]

Look at it differently . These types of organizations are very clever in the approah they take .
Here is just an example , maybe they push the DGF (now the DFW) to eliminate ALL limits on any size bass taken .
Eventually , people who "USE" Lakes like Clear lake as a resource for food will go to your favorite spots , set up a couple lines loaded with minnows and/or night crawlers and harvest , kill and remove HUGE amounts
of nice 3lber , 5 lbers . Not just the 5 they can take today , but maybe a 100 , every day until you can no longer go to the Lake because NOBODY ever catches anything !!! SAVING this poor fish NOBODY cares about !!!!!
Are these people really saving the lives a totally unknown fish OR destroying the sport of bass fishing and the lives of the people who live in the area who support that sport??
WE HAVE NO VOICE , NO ORGANIZATION AND NO MONEY to go against these azzholes. We only show up and
complain on the internet!
tight lines ----while they last,
Robb

[swimbait]

Fighting the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) and winning... I know a little about this.

In Jan 2010, I went to Shadow Cliffs and saw signs that the 'back ponds' were closed to all fishing. Here's that old post

http://calfishing.com/dc/dcboard.php?az ... ype=search

Researching, I learned that CBD staff member Jeff Miller acting on behalf of his organization, the Alameda Creek Alliance had petitioned the CA DFG successfully to get them to close all of Alameda Creek and it's tributaries to fishing. Since the ponds were on a tributary, they got closed.

There is a long story between that day and the day the ponds were reopened but I will summarize like this

1. CA Dept. of Fish and Game sets the fishing regs for the state.

2. CA DFG sets those laws based on a variety of factors including but not limited to the Endangered Species Act, California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), and their general charter which read, "The Mission of the Department of Fish and Game is to manage California's diverse fish, wildlife, and plant resources, and the habitats upon which they depend, for their ecological values and for their use and enjoyment by the public."

3. CBD's normal strategy is to sue under the law to force Departments of Fish and Game and Federal Agencies to implement changes that they want implemented. They have a book called Eco Barons that describes this strategy in detail if you care to learn more.

4. When no one advocates for the fishing side, DFG is more likely to be persuaded by CBD to do things.

5. When someone from the fishing side advocates properly for the issue, DFG will consider their input and may (to your surprise) actually agree with the fishing viewpoint and change the regulations.

The KEY in all of this is knowing HOW to fight. And yes, complaining on the internet is not how you fight.

How you fight is by following DFG process and going to DFG meetings in Sacramento or wherever they are being held to give comment. It's a lot to write up the details on how you do this, but you can do it. I did. I went to Sacramento twice for this issue. It took two +years. I won. I didn't have an organization and I didn't spend any money. All I did was follow the process. You can too.

When you win, it looks like this:
http://calfishing.com/dc/dcboard.php?az ... ype=search

Right now this hitch issue is on the 2012 propsed reg slate
http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2012/index.aspx#clh

To fight this, you must give comment on the issue before the due date. I don't know the due date for this one. Typically there is a 3 month period. Check the Commission agendas for when comment on this will be.

Your comments should address the law. Your emotions or common sense inferences about the problem mean little. You might say, "I saw tons of hitch getting eaten by bass around the corner from Braitos last year in the FLW". No one cares.

A more relevant discussion would be whether Hitch in CL are really a subspecies and different than the hitch at dozens of other locations in the state.

A more relevant discussion would be whether Hitch in CL have actually declined in numbers in the last 10, 50, 100+ years.

If any of you out there are serious about fighting this, send me a PM. I can guide you more. The minute CL Hitch is declared endangered, the next lawsuits will be in effort to protect them. That could include good things like habitat restoration or pointless things like changing bass regs to allow unlimited harvest or electrofishing bass on purpose. CBD will ask for the max possible remediation knowing the "compromise" that will result will still get a lot of what they want.

-Rob Belloni

[Robb R]

Rob
Thank you so much for your efforts in going against CBD and winning . Secondly , thnak you for posting your information and offering assistance . Your example and information should be useful to all the people concerned and should be used to help keep the CBD in check . Use system to the bass fishermans advantage.
Personally , I have bass fished the bay area for over 35 years , never had a good chance to fish Clear Lake but always wanted too. It sickens me at the thought of such a great Lake running the risk of losing such an important resource and sport. Hopefully , guys like Dan Isaac and others who live in that area can group together and take guidance form all your hardwork and success.
All of bass fisherman should send you a bag of your favorite lure for this post.
Congrats and thank you ,
regards ,
Robb (spelled incorrectly )

[swimbait]

I have too many lures already. Just fight the fight when you know it's the right thing to do.

[fish_food]

Remember when the DFG President shot that Mountain Lion ? Totally legal in every way .

Not to beat a dead horse any further but if FGC chair Dan Richards really wanted that cat, he should've kept it on the down low rather than publish pics for all to see. He accepted a $5-6000 hunt from an Idaho outfitter knowing full well that it's illegal for office holders/appointed officials/policy makers to accept gifts above a certain amount. They sign financial disclosures and conflict of interest agreements upon appointment--it's all public record and available for you to see.

Politicians, public officials, and civil servants in general aren't viewed in high regard these days and he should have known accepting such a high dollar gift could fuel misperceptions. He was the chairman of the Commission after all. Richards paid for the hunt only after the outfitter's "gift" came to light.

[Oldschool]

I don't want to bring politics into thread, however it is at the core of the problem and we the citizens of California just reflected a super majority of the politicians that support limiting your rights and help fund the groups who want to limit your hunting and fishing opportunities.
Not only did we reelect these people, we self imposed more taxation upon ourselves so we will have less money to enjoy our sport. Amazing, simply amazing!
Good thread, didn't want to hijack it, just point that we are our worst enemy and must learn to ban together to have any chance to fight for our rights.
Tom

[crankster123]

I think the stupidest part is that this group thinks that by killing off all the bass, the hitch are going to magically be saved. There are SO many other environmental factors that are reducing hitch populations; its really frustrating to see this group come to a conclusion that killing the bass is the answer.

[mark poulson]

People at the far ends of any issue tend to be extremists, and near sighted.
They push for their position, right or wrong, and don't even consider what others who disagree have to say, or the possible consequences for anyone else.
"The problem with extremists is not that they are extreme, it is that they are intolerant." Bobby Kennedy
There has to room in this world for all of us, not just those we agree with, because none of us have all the answers.

[Robb R]

fish -food , I wasnt aware of the "gift" to Dan Richards . If he signed off and knew he shouldn't have done the hunt, shame on him .
My point is , why do we have people like Gavin Newsom preaching morals ----- and he's supposed to be leading as an elected offiicial and he had FAR worse in behavior than Richards . You don't have to look far to find corruption in local, state and federal Govt.---it's everywere.
Secondly , why do we have to put up with groups like CBD and others ?? Lawyers and Politicians !!! People who make the rules and people who enforce them !! Total BS.
Back to the thread ---I hope somebody in the Clear Lake area is taking the guidance offered above from somebody that can potentially help from the "Hitch" being listed as endangered and then possible seriously affecting the Clear Lake fishery . Taking the offered advise from an individual that has successfully gone up against CBD and worked our Govt's rules and regulations so he can fish locally is what's needed on this thread.
Tight lines,
Robb

[DanIsaac]

guys,,,, this is not about saving the hitch or killing the bass.....it's about $$$ , and ending fishing as we know it.....this is merely one rung on the ladder. The hitch and the non-native species are just the smoke and mirrors for these orgs to twist the LAW against us.

Dan

[mark poulson]

guys,,,, this is not about saving the hitch or killing the bass.....it's about $$$ , and ending fishing as we know it.....this is merely one rung on the ladder. The hitch and the non-native species are just the smoke and mirrors for these orgs to twist the LAW against us.

Dan

But where's the money in ending fishing?
I think these are just mostly short sighted passionate young people with their own agendas, out to fix the world that we "ruined", educated beyond their intelligence. They have no common sense.
I hear that crap from my one of my sons sometimes, too, like he invented smart, and everone else is just missing the point.

[Marty]

[Robb R]

funny , yes it's all about the dollars , ALWAYS WILL BE .
the really sad thing , the people who should be concerned , the people who fish this lake , live in the area , belong
to clubs , work in the industry (includingn the Mfg's ) etc....
would rather talk about it and do nothing than secure the bass fishing for themselves and future generations and figure out how to stop these over educated young zealots with a law degree in hand saving the world .
Organizations like the CBD are counting on nobody stepping up to stop them -SADS, SAD , SAD.
I hope people don't look back and say , "I shoulda done something before the CDB killed off all those bass"!!!
Robb

[Otay Michael]

I think a certain percent of everything fishing related should be added on/donated to an organization that defends fisherman's rights. Say 2% of all tournament monies, launch ramp fees, fishing supplies, bass boat sales, fishing licenses, etc.. That would give us half a chance. Their side has a lot of money donated from rich dudes who hate life and take it out on us (more or less).

[clearlakeoutdoors]

I went to the meeting and I urge people to write comments to the US Fish and Wildlife service http;//www.fws.gov/endangered/
They didnt come right out and blame only the bass as the hitches demise. The bass have been in the lake for 120 years.The spraying of DDT in the sixties to control the gnats was a big mistake!!
Greg Guisti says the silversides and shad that compete for the hitches food are a big problem.He also stated that there is nothing they can do about all the predators of hitch(bass,catfish ,crappie, birds, otters etc)that are in the lake. It takes years for a species to be put on the endangered list ( they said some have been waiting 15 years) but dont count on it!!
Anyone who spent time on the water this fall saw all the small Hitch out there.There needs to be a study on the Hitch in the lake ( never been done)and spawning creeks need to be restored. There needs to be a take limit on the hitch.We have take limits on most other fish that are not endangered . It doesnt make sense to put a species on the endangered list with no take limit!
I will try and go to every meeting and urge others to do the same. There wasnt very many fisherman in the room!!
Dave B

[crankster123]

When/where are the meetings?

-Kenji

[Robb R]

MO ,
great idea , the money could even be used to pay somebody to be the "navigator" of advising/fighting/updates to all the people who value these resources. How about a few percent coming from the DFG license fee's and having them contribute (i know , NO WAY they do it).

clearlakeoutdoors ,
great info , will you post if you go to any other meetings and/or know when those might be ?
Robb

[clearlakeoutdoors]

i will post about meetings
http://www.westernbass.com/forum/clear- ... 81389.html
Dave

[clearlakeoutdoors]

http://www.lakeconews.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=197

[mark poulson]

It sounds like the real threat to the hitch, and everything else, is pollution and upstream spawning bed degradation. I don't see black bass as a part of any of they.
The things that can be controlled with laws that are already on the books are water pollution and stream bed degradation.
It's time to enforce the laws we already have, even if it means offending political contributors.

[durobi]

A vote for obama and california's democrats was a vote to end fishing , hunting and private gun ownership. Now you can see what obama meant when he said " We will fundamentally change America".