Is blocking public water illegal?

[davet.]

I noticed that now perry's (not worthy of a capital letter) has completely blocked off public access to the water that surrounds their business.
On one end it's roped off, on the other it's roped off with boards, and they've taken the trouble to drill hundreds of wood screws into the wood to deter us and scratch the crap out your boat.
They're stealing our public property.
Isn't their an attorney among us that can file a complaint, give sound legal advice, or just plain file a lawsuit for blocking a public waterway?

[split172]

Sounds like it would make a great bon fire!

[Fred Fullerton]

If the property is private not state owned they can do what ever they want to, unfortunately there is a lot land locked property in this state. Been on this fight before its sad but not much can be done. If they don't give permission to pass you have to find another launch ramp

[fish_food]

So Perry's is at it again...

They're discussed in another thread as well (2 pages): http://www.westernbass.com/forum/was-as ... 88-50.html

[davet.]

If the property is private not state owned they can do what ever they want to, unfortunately there is a lot land locked property in this state. Been on this fight before its sad but not much can be done. If they don't give permission to pass you have to find another launch ramp

No, you're not getting it. They have a marina on an island and they put barricades across public waterways to deny us access to our own waterways. It's California law that allows us access to navigable waterways.
It's like someone lives on a street and they get tired of thru traffic so they just put up fences at both ends to keep traffic out. The street belongs to all of us, but they decided to keep it for themselves.
Also, one end of each barricade is attached to a levee owned by Army Corp of Engineers. I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to attach or build anything on any levee without their knowledge or permission.

[Levy]

Some owners did something similar at Rivers end. When they did I would either cut the rope or remove it where it was connected to the doc. They would come out and yell at me but I told them the law and to check it out and they never tried to put them back other then the person in the very back of the marina who refuses to comply. I would have no problem cutting his rope as well if I wanted to fish back there.

I am not advocating doing this but you have just as much of a right as they do.

[fish_food]

Some owners did something similar at Rivers end. When they did I would either cut the rope or remove it where it was connected to the doc. They would come out and yell at me but I told them the law and to check it out and they never tried to put them back other then the person in the very back of the marina who refuses to comply. I would have no problem cutting his rope as well if I wanted to fish back there.

I am not advocating doing this but you have just as much of a right as they do.

I salute you.

[Fred Fullerton]

D I get the picture now I thought this was before the water, No he can not block the water and if you needed to you could walk on the land from the water at high water level and he can not stop you. So I agree cut the barricade and go fishing just have a bat in the boat so you can hit the rocks when they throw them or what ever you need it for.

[mark poulson]

Call the sheriff and report it. You want it to be on record if something bad happens.
Ask them how you can legally proceed.

[davet.]

Yes, I have filed a complaint with the US Army Corp of Engineers and they have directed me to the Sac sheriff's department and coast guard.
I'm still working on it. Will file complaints to each.

[mark poulson]

Yes, I have filed a complaint with the US Army Corp of Engineers and they have directed me to the Sac sheriff's department and coast guard.
I'm still working on it. Will file complaints to each.

Good luck. That's the right way to handle it.

[Big Buddy]

There is that crazy couple on the North end of Clear Lake with the colored bouey's around their dock. They sit and wait for bass boats to get close then she walks Down with the hose and starts spraying the water to scare fish. They yelled at me one day for casting under their dock!!

[Laserdoc]

This has happen before to Folsom bass team guys during a tournament (same place) if I’m in a tournament I just leave but if I’m only representing myself I push it and fish the area. If they really start giving me a hard time I have a copy of the following and keep it in the boat and offer them a copy of it and move on

Government Code Section 39933 states: “All navigable waters shall remain open to the free and unobstructed navigation of the public”. In the case of Lane V City of Redondo beach 49 Cal.App.3d 251 the court opined that the city can’t close a street or sell it or vacate it when its used for access to tidelands. The public must have access.

**U.S. Supreme Court in 1979 created four tests for determining what constitutes navigable waters. Established in Kaiser Aetna v. United States, 444 U.S. 164, 100 S. Ct. 383, 62 L. Ed. 2d 332, the tests ask whether the body of water (1) is subject to the ebb and flow of the tide, (2) connects with a continuous interstate waterway, (3) has navigable capacity, and (4) is actually navigable. Using these tests, courts have held that bodies of water much smaller than lakes and rivers also constitute navigable waters. Even shallow streams that are traversable only by canoe have met the test.

[calfisher71]

We had a run in with that guy in a tournament, we came in there and he came running down to the dock to yell at us, he told us to leave bla bla, we were actually really cool and said look, we will be out of here in 2-3 minutes no problem. He then took pictures of our boat and really started being a butt head for a lack of better words. Really annoying guy. I did see he roped the area off, Not cool.

[Jason C.]

Scotty J and I went to go fish there a couple months back, and saw that the area was roped off. So I stuck my trolling motor right up to it and proceeded to cast my crank bait right along side the dock. Caught about a 2lber lol.

[davet.]

I believe that since perry's also added hundreds of metal spikes to their southern barricade, it creates a safety hazard to man and wildlife.
I also believe that if you scratched the crap outta your boat you could hold them accountable, since they are negligent in constructing the barricade in the first place.

Waiting for response from Coast Guard at this time.

[Andy Giannini]

To clarify, the levee does not belong to Army Corps, it belongs to the local district which maintains the levees. There is usually an underlying property owner that owns the ground underneath the levee. Both the local district has a property right due to easement, and the underlying property owner has rights. The district's right is paramount to the underlying property owner.

Perry's is a dredger cut, and they went to court some time ago probably in a dispute with State Lands, who claims everything under the water as State property and charges marinas fees to encroach or create a dock footprint over the land or the public waterway. However, if you can prove it was a dredger cut, the mud underneath is exempt from State Lands taxation, and deemed private property.

This finding has been misunderstood by the new owners, thinking they own the river and the fish in it or control who may float there. None of these things are true. The Perry family created a public access by inletting the river to create a marina.

I would check the Ca. Constition art. 10 section 4 which clearly states your right to float on the river, regardliess of shoreline owner, or owner of tidal lands. Print that, and in Ca. code you can also find the list of Navigable rivers which includes Mokelumne.

You might also consider calling the Dept. of Boating and Waterways.

.02

[davet.]

• CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
• ARTICLE 10 WATER
•
•
• SEC. 4. No individual, partnership, or corporation, claiming or
• possessing the frontage or tidal lands of a harbor, bay, inlet,
• estuary, or other navigable water in this State, shall be permitted
• to exclude the right of way to such water whenever it is required for
• any public purpose, nor to destroy or obstruct the free navigation
• of such water; and the Legislature shall enact such laws as will give
• the most liberal construction to this provision, so that access to
• the navigable waters of this State shall be always attainable for the
• people thereof.


I'm all over it. I received a phone call from a Master Lieutenant at the local Coast Guard. I'm not gonna gloat til the fat lady sings, but........

[Robb R]

congrats on standing your ground .
to others that helped guide the purpose , AWESOME .
thats what a bass fishing forum should be used for .
tight lines and I hope you get a 10Lb + right next to thier dock next time you fish it .
Robb

[mark poulson]

You gotta wonder why people get so possessive and crazy about fishing around their docks. Maybe they stepped on a hook left by someone, or had their kids or grandkids hurt.
It sure seems like a big waste of energy for nothing.

[Andy Giannini]

It is called a "cognitive distortion".

"I own the dock, so I own the area around it."

People have to apply for permits to encroach upon the public waterway.

That means it is your water. And technically those are your fish.

The funniest has to be, "I give you permission to fish behind my dock." While you are in your own boat.

They do not have the authority to deny you fishing behind the dock.

.02

[davet.]

I think we can all do better when in these sensitive areas.
Give more space to boats, don't bounce your jigs off someones $80K sailboat, don't snag boat covers and snap your line off, be extra cautious about under water ropes, don't bounce your boat off anything when maneuvering around private property, be very polite to people that are also polite.
As for the a$$holes, I don't mind telling them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
I may just make a large placard stating the California Constitution, Article 10, section 4, and when they take a photo of you, make sure you hold up your placard and smile.

[Jason C.]

any updates on this?

[davet.]

Nope, it's hopeless. I'm just gonna give up and go away

[Andy Giannini]

Perry's open again to fishing log booms gone, no fishing signs coming down, details to follow....



A.G.

[davet.]

Andy, you don't know how happy this makes me. Thank you for your persistence and concern.
I was by no means done with this issue and was planning my next move, but what a great surprise from Andy.
We could not have accomplished this without Andy's knowledge and expertise. We all owe Andy a huge thank you for taking action on our behalf.
Thank you Andy.
P.S. I think I just heard the fat lady singing, now i can gloat!! HA HA HA, ME SO HAPPY!

[fish_food]

That's great work--thanks to Dave and Andy for the legwork that had to be done in order to set Perry's straight. Andy deserves a big pat on the back for always chiming in on this subject (it comes up regularly) and educating everyone on their rights to navigate inland waters. Thumbs up, guys!