KVD DQ'd?

[rmcollins3]

Anyone know why?

[Jim V.]

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bass ... squalified

[basstamer]

Bassmaster.com says that he violated "rule 12" stating that non boaters cannot drive the boat.Apparently (Suppossedly KVD admitted he did it to Trip Weldon) Kevin was standing on the front deck as his non boater idled him through a cove so he could look for beds. The report says KVD had no idea of the rule or he wouldnt have done it. The worst thing about this is this put him in the same catagory as the new jersey mouth-I have never made any qualms about my not liking that dips**t Ike but KVD is different he is always polite and is a true fishing machine-I hate to see him even remotly categorized with ike the tike! Just my .02

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

Seems kind of harsh to get a total DQ during practice..Althopugh what Trip stated does make some sense, it just seems strange to get DQ'ed during a practice day..

mac

[Gator]

While I understand that this was a rule and that it was broken, it begs the question.....Why have this rule at all? Is there some specific reason to not let the Co-Angler drive your boat? I guess I just can't figure out why this rule even exists.

[Pat]

While I understand that this was a rule and that it was broken, it begs the question.....Why have this rule at all? Is there some specific reason to not let the Co-Angler drive your boat? I guess I just can't figure out why this rule even exists.

Here's the answer Gator:

"If one angler has a co-angler and another doesn't, in that situation that gives him a clear competitive edge," Weldon said. "That's why we made that rule."

A full disqualification was in order, Weldon explained, because VanDam could have gained an advantage that might have lasted for the entirety of the four-day event.

Pat

[Bill K]

Another good example of a person being sure he knows the rules for every tournament he/she enters. Rules is rules. Bill K

[Phil]

KEVIN, BUDDY;
I HAVE TO SAY AND WE ARE NOT SHY ABOUT IT. WE HAVE WATCHED AND ADMIRED YOU AND YOUR FISHING TALLENT SINCE YOU WERE A KID, THE KID FROM KALAMAZOO !! THIS HAD TO BE TOUGH CALL, WE ALL KNOW WHAT A POLITE GENTLEMAN YOU ARE AT THIS WONDERFUL SPORT. WE HOPE THIS DOES NOT SET YOU BACK AND YOU CONTINUE TO BE THE STAR AT THIS SPORT THAT YOU ARE........
SORRY TO HEAR YOUR DELIMA, BUT AS K SAYS..RULES ARE RULES , KNOWING THEM IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY.
WHATS THE SAYING BILL, IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE !

OUR .02 ONLY.......................JIGS

[Bill K]

That is what my old Sergeant used to tell me and later, after I made Sgt. I used the same line to people I contacted on patrol, etc. Life is great and the fish will be turning on big time, shortly. Bill K

[NaCl]

KVD is one of my favorite anglers but the rules of the sport must be enforced or the sport loses credibility. While I am not a fan of B.A.S.S., I applaud them for their strong stand on rules. No favorites...from Iaconelli to KVD...the sport is transcending the "good ol boy" image.

.....NaCl

[sTony]

You know how it goes, once official practice starts all tournament rules are in effect. It could also be considered a dangerous activity being on the bow of your boat while someone else is running your big motor. Not a great call on KVD's part and thankfully the rules were upheld and he was bounced from the event. It would have been far worse for the sport had he not be dq'd.

As to why have the rule, well it's pretty simply put that they do in fact have the rule so you have to follow it. I've seen guys try to get around similar rules by having extra long lanyards on their kill switches and its a clear violation. In this case you have an obvious advantage of sight over the solo angler likely either sitting down steering or standing running his trolling motor. To my mind the big motor should never be in operation with an angler up and moving around the boat but I don't believe there is a rule to cover that. It's a safety concern whenever people are moving around and the big motor is running and frankly not the intent when the boat was designed. That's why we have two motors on each bass boat, one being specifically for when you're sitting down and one for when you're up and about.

As far as knowing the rules, it's highly likely that KVD knew the rule and just forgot about it in practical use. He's fished a bunch of high level events, BASS in particular.

I've always been an advocate of having a standard set of rules that tournaments run by. Much like just about every other sport where there aren't big changes in the basic rules. Tennis is the same no matter where you play it as is golf and so on. Sure winter rules apply in golf but winter rules are winter rules no matter where you go. Baseball has a distinction of one league allowing designated hitters and one league not and you'll find that it's one thing most fans really don't like about the sport. Pro bass fishing would get a big leg up in the credibility department if everyone was playing by the same set of rules no matter where the event was held and regardless of who was running it.

The one that gets my goat the most is this darn net rule. Another is the distance between boats where in one event you have to be a set distance apart from each other and the next org you can be touching. Have one rule and live with it. It kind of sucks having to learn all the new sets of rules everytime you're out there and I can see where it could get blurred in someone's mind from one event to another really easily.

sTony

[Bill K]

It would be nice to see a official set of rules, that all tourney go by.
i.e. you do not have a different set of rules at each ballpark, you go to any ballpark, play ball and everyone knows what is acceptable and what is not. That might be hard to do, but it sure would make it more fullproof for all that entered tournaments. Bill K

[mark poulson]

He has no future as a politician, accepting responsibility for his own actions. When will the poor boy learn?

[Cooch]

So, why is it that, if you break a rule, no matter what that rule is, during the friggen practice rounds, ya git DQ'd from the ENTIRE event, yet make that same precise rule enfraction during the event, you only loose that day's weight?

Sorry, I don't git it. KVD, should have been penalized in some way for his 1st day's weight, yet allowed to continue on day 2. I think this is a screwed up way to handle pratice infractions! I could see if it was a rules infraction of being on the water outside of the practice period, or stacking fish or gathering info and such, but whoa, any rule infraction during practice, your done before ya start! Purty screwed up rule if'n ya ask me.

Just my opinion. As George Carlin just said, "F*** me, Canada just burnt down and nobody noticed!" HAR! HAR! HAR!

[NaCl]

I hadn't thought of it in those terms but you're right. Maybe he should have had to sit out Day 1. That would be the same as if he broke the rule on actual tournament day. You're a smart boy for an Italian! LOL

.....NaCl

[mark poulson]

You're right, that rule interpretation wasn't very well thought out ahead of time.
Kind of like how BASS handled the whold Fed. issue, or how they dumped on the West Coast.
I guess that's all we can expect from an organization that eats it's young.

[basssjk]

Hey Cooch ...
Thats the very same thing I said ... why should be DQ'd for the whole tournament ... Ike was only DQ'd for the day at the classic! I think Trip messed up on this one ... I sent BASS the same thought ... not that it ever does any good with them.

[kopper_bass]

Cooch,
Maybe i missed something, but in the press release Trip Weldon said that he was DQ'ed from the whole tournament because his infraction was such that it benefited him throughout the tourney.

It's the same infraction as if you were scouting the lake on off-limits time; there's no way to penalize you and assure that you don't use that advantage you just got throughout the tourney.

Some infractions are correctable with a weight penalty or 1 day DQ, but some are justifiably a full suspension or DQ. This infraction resulted in "illegal water scouting" and there is no way to keep KVD from using that water later in the tourney knowing that he found monster fish doing this by illegal means. Every rule cannot be the same - otherwise trapping or caging 12lbers would be worth the day 1 DQ if you got to then go and get 'em on day 2. (ps - i'm not saying KVD was trapping or caging, just using it as a comparison).

Did i miss it?

Kopper_Bass

[rmcollins3]

I'm sure if KVD was told he could not fish anywhere near the water he was found scouting that he would not fish it. He didn't knowingly violate the rule. I think a more appropriate punishment might have been just to move him to the last flight, final boat out and ban him from fishing that area.

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

My question is, If KVD had been driving the boat and his co-angler been dooing the spotting from the bow, would the rule have been broken..The way the rule reads, he got in dutch for allowing his co-angler to drive..Just curious..

mac

[NaCl]

Kopper,

I respect your thoughts but I would counter that the "cut" takes care of any advantage that might be gained throughout the "entire" tournament. KVD would have to make the "cut" to even be fishing on Days 3 or 4. By DQ'ing him for Day 1 only, he would be limited to weighing 5 bass to everyone else's 2 day total of 10 bass. Even with lots of bed fish, it's highly unlikely he would even make the "cut" after Day 2. He'd pretty much just be fishing to salvage some points towards AOY or next year's qualifying standings for the tour.

I feel that Trip Weldon has swatted a fly with a wrecking ball. Of course, this is completely consistent with ESPN/BASS judgement over the past few years.

.....NaCl

[kopper_bass]

and by all requirements, there is nothing against this, so it should be legal, but with BASS's interpretations, who knows!

My expectation is that the rule is there strictly for the safety and liability issue; not to specifically address the bed sighting advantage.

Kopper_Bass

[kopper_bass]

NACL,

Thanks for replying. its a great topic of discussion and i do also appreciate your input and comment.

I truly do see why most people feel the penalty for such an infraction is overkill; it does sound like it at face value, but in thinking of all the alternative penalties that everyone has offered, i still dont see that they ensure no advantage for KVD over the other competitors throughout the competition. Consider:

1) Water is off limits:
1st, this is an idea offered mainly 'cause KVD is such a standup guy - we all respect him for that. But, if you go and offer such a penalty to him, you have to be ready and able to offer this to those less trusting or honorable. Rules can't be judged on the character of the violator, its set as a rule for everyone. Who among the screamin' Ike haters is going to let him have an honor rule infraction penalty? Doubt it. 2nd, even though he was caught in 1 area, how would anyone know he wasn't doing this in every bedding area? now Trip has to ban KVD from doing any bed fishing. That just doesnt seem like a likely scenario either.

2) 1 Day DQ:
This goes towards your idea. While the infraction was one that was slight and technical, the fact that it was done at a point that gives unfair advantage makes it complex. No doubt that if you DQ KVD for Day 1, he's not making the cut and only fishing for AOY points, but is that still fair to the guy who then gets beat by him who struggled both day 1 and 2, who didnt have bed fish and is questioning whether KVD used his advantage on day 2 to surpass him on points? That would surely be the result because you can't confirm that KVD didnt get some unfair advantage while motoring around like that. To me, its like fishing in off-limits period; they would just DQ you for the whole tourney then. Otherwise, that doesn't seem like a fair thing either.

3) Remove the rule:
Of course this can only be done after this tourney is over. Since the practice sessions started with this rule in-force, it wouldn't be right to allow the infraction and claim this rule is now being withdrawn from the tourney. That would just look to like too much favoritism towards KVD.

I truly believe this rule is in place for the safety and liability issues, and not one that is imposed to specifically address the bed sighting infraction. The fact that it happened during bed sighting, makes it the problem with the punishment. I hope (really hope) that if this infraction would've happened say while exiting a 5 zone, while KVD re-tied, then the penalty would've been the 1 day DQ or a weight penalty. But since its been done where the result is ir-reversable, then there's no easy resolution other than total DQ. How else can you stop KVD from using the knowledge? Who knows, BASS always has crazy ideas on how the use their rules, so its anyone's guess, but in this instance i dont see the alternative either.

give me a shout back because i want to know whatcha think about this.

Thanks,

Kopper_Bass

[NaCl]

JUST KIDDING! LOL That's the way some guys end up disagreeing on this forum sometimes. This thread shows that rational people can disagree about seroius matters WITHOUT getting angry or insulting.

Kopper, I still feel the "advantage" gained by KVD was sufficiently offset by a 1 day DQ. But, I agree with you on one very important theme. Rules should be applied consistently and with substantial penalty. Otherwise, guys will push the limits. As much as I respect KVD, he DID have the opportunity to read the rules any time before the infractions. So, whether the punishment is appropriate or extreme, the most important issue is that the punishment WAS applied. You can bet other anglers were put on notice!

Good discussion!

.....NaCl

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

I would still like to know if KVD had been driving and the co on the spot, would it have been a violation of the rules..

mac

[nipples]

So here the rub that bothers me.

Luke Claussen spent 3 weeks pre-fishing for the February classic with his friends who were all local pros in Florida. (Luke said this in several televised interviews)

(nothing wrong with pre-fishing any way you want before the official (designated) tournament pre-fish window)

This gave Luke a clear advantage over other fishermen who don't have drinking buddies in the hurricane state. He also got to have their help in deciding prefish and tournament strategy, and give him some very credible advice for where and how to fish for various weather changes.

(nothing wrong with being prepared)

The problem I have with this is that BASS states that the rule KVD broke was designed to keep the playing field level, and breaking the rule gave KVD an unfair advantage.

So.... we all need to ban together on this and lets all chip in and fly a proctologist out to BASS to help them locate their heads.

If you are going to try to make the playing field level, then make it level. If a tournament angler wants to prefish with his friends, let him, and who cares who drives the damn boat and who stands a bow and looks for horny fish.

An unfair advantage to someone who doesn't have a partner???? More like an unfair advantage to someone who is obnoxious and doesn't have any friends (cough, cough, ahhh-heem-iaconelli).. sorry.. had to clear my throat.

I seriously fail to see that BASS is adding anything other than a capital "B" and an "S" to the sport of fishing. In a half hour show, I might get to see 3 minutes of fishing in-between the commercials and BS. I would like to See KVD and everyone else say to heck with BASS and go fish FLW. I am not a Wal-Mart fan, but at least they haven't tried to turn fishing into a mix between NASCAR and pay-per-view.


Just want to add my bag of spice to the soup.



Tight lines and strong knots,


-Paul-

[Joe LaGrone]

You said....... The worst thing about this is this put him in the same catagory as the new jersey mouth....
How do you get that?
Kevin Made a mistake through not reading & understanding the rules.
He admitted it.... & most importantally , didnt try to hide it......& didnt throw a raging temper tantrum for all the world to see.
Everyone has & is going to make mistakes.
What differentiates people is how they handle their mistakes.
Kevin, on his absolute worst day i ever heard about him was a GENTLEMAN.
Dont EVER compare Kevin, & most of the current pros`s, especially if theyve been on the circuit several years with the likes of Ike.
IKe has NEVER been a positive example for this sport.
all Ike is cincerened with is IKe.
Did you see the comparison between Ike & woo Daves on Bass Center a couple of weeks ago?
If not try to , it will enlighten you .