elites vs "locals"

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kraetzer
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elites vs "locals"

Postby kraetzer » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:37 am

So we have the elites fishing for $100k and a local tournament fishing for a new car on the same weekend!?!
That could get interesting very quick 8)
Wondering if there wasn't a way to avoid that :?:
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whazup
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby whazup » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:16 pm

That's one way to guarantee the Elites won't be back.
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bassrman
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby bassrman » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:39 pm

The BASS guys will be cut down to 50/10 by the weekend ! Thurs & Fri will be crowded !

mark poulson
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby mark poulson » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:46 pm

That kind of short sighted planning is why most tournament trails in SoCal struggle for numbers. AC just quit down here.
Top Stick, which is run by John Barron, who understands what the challenges are, and plans accordingly, is the only L.A. area trail that consistently pulls 60+ boats.
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fish_food
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby fish_food » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:43 pm

Don't all organizations work with the State on agreeing to derby dates at least a year in advance (at the annual tournament "Jamboree")? The way I understand the process, is that organizations all compromise and switch dates for scheduling conflicts on their respective bodies of water.

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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby mark poulson » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:53 pm

Maybe the Delta is big enough that there can be multiple permits pulled for the same day.
Our lakes in SoCal are so small that only one permit per day per lake is issued.
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kraetzer
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby kraetzer » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:03 pm

Just heard that the biggest striper tournament is that Friday and Saturday too
and the federation has a tournament on Sunday
:shock:
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Bayarea-bassin
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Bayarea-bassin » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:20 pm

Yeah I don't get it. Tournament on top of tournament. It always happens. If I was running a circuit I wouldn't schedule any events during b.a.s.s. Or flw events or even ctt or any other major specialty tournament. I know there's so many circuits but I'm sure it's do-able!! I'll be missing a tournament in the circuit I'm in because it falls on the same weekend as flw clearlake. My first co angler event. So now I'm a tourney behind to make the t.o.c for that particular circuit. It's not that hard to schedule around these 2 major circuits(flw,bass) is it???? Smh!!!!

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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Bayarea-bassin » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:24 pm

Sorry I'm still ranting!! You think bass will want to come back after they find out a championship is being held the same weekend they come to town. Yeah it might be cut down to 50 on sat. and 10 on Sunday but how many ppl will be prefish ing Thursday and Friday. I'm sure half the field will be!!. No wonder they haven't been back in the last 5 years!!! Them ppl complain that the bass opens don't come out west anymore and you wonder why??? Maybe if the local tournament organizers would get their head out their @ss and plan ahead maybe bass would be more appreciative and want to bring the opens back!!! Rant over!!!

kraetzer
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby kraetzer » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:46 pm

I think it's also bad business for the local tournaments, especially if you are fishing for a truck. just imagine you found your fish in pre-fishing and think you have a legit shot just to find out that an elite guy was pounding your water the previous 2 days and might be in there with you for the next 2 days.
I know everybody has to deal with this but I think it's just totally unnecessary to have the 2 biggest tournaments money wise on the same weekend on the same body of water.
as mentioned before, I think we should try and combine resources between different trails and not take them away or split them up.
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bassrman
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby bassrman » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:16 pm

The BASS guys have such a long run' the locals should already be on there best water ! (depending on the tides) ?.. gonna be interesting ! I will be driving right by Disco park during the weigh in Fri " on my way to Clear Lake " am I gonna stop by"?... I don't think so !....

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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby rickyshabazz » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:03 pm

Add to the mix that practice for the FLW event starts that Saturday as well. Should be interesting.
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Cooch » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:05 am

I don't think the number of boats on the water is a big deal to the Elite guys, this happens all across the country where they fish. They are the Professionals, are used to it and will adapt. As far as it affecting BASS' decision to come back, prolly a mute point, they are more concerned about the number of people who show up to watch the weigh-ins at the end of the day. In the end, everybody must work together and not let their ego's git the best of em. Be safe, be courteous and be respectful, in the end, it'll all work out. We're all in the same boat, there's plenty of "spots", bass and fun to be had by all.

As far as controlling the number of events, permits are issued by county, so there could potentially be up to 4 permits issued on any given day for the Delta and this excludes those permits requested by all the local clubs through out the state. It's a dollar and cents thing for the State of California, so even though they try to control the number of events on the Delta by county, they want em all filled up just for the revenue.

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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Gene Buchholz » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:39 am

Sorry Cooch I don't feel it's a dollar and cents with the Fish & Game if it would be they wouldn't care how many permits they issued they control it very well.
BASS didn't show up at the jamboree last year they just sent in their application for the permit, so the organizations didn't have a chance to discuss it, all though BASS should have been given more consideration. The Fish and game does not get involved with the negotiations between the organizations, if the organizations can't resolve their issues they draw numbers, each organization is given a number upon registering at the jamboree.
I my self would be upset if i made my living fishing and thought I had the winning spot just to find a local tournament angler beat me there.
This question should have been raised a long time ago and should have been directed to the organizations themselves.
What's done is done and your right Cooch we just have to learn to all get along.
Just my 2 cents
Last edited by Gene Buchholz on Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

mark poulson
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby mark poulson » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:39 am

Gene,
That has been my experience over the last 10 years with the DFG/DFW Jamborees in SoCal.
The DFW people don't pick and choose, just leave it up to organizations with dates that conflict to work it out, or have a blind pick to determine who gets first choice of the date in dispute.
I agree that B.A.S.S. should have been at the NoCal Jamboree, to let everyone there work together to make this Elites event a success, without conflicts. It is in almost everyone who fishes tournaments best interest. The better the Elites perform, the better the show they put on, and the more sponsor participation at all levels.
Kind of short sighted on B.A.S.S.'s part.
I have no doubt those guys will still catch 'em. But not nearly as well with all the other locals on the best spots.
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Chad LeBlanc
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Chad LeBlanc » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:51 am

Even more interesting. The Elite guys who have been planning on fishing this event for months and the running around earlier in the year they've done with the "locals" be interesting to see how much room they are given. Should make for an interesting weekend. Ill have a front row seat

Chad

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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Andy Lippert » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:05 am

Oh, Future Pro Tour is doing something again that doesn't have the best interest of the anglers or this sport at heart? Is anyone really surprised?

Not only will there be conflicts on the water with fishing spots, but the people who are fishing the local derb, obviously have the days off, and my guess is--would have wanted to attend the Elites weigh-ins--and would have. Now BASS once again looks at us like we're not all-in with our support--just another negative for bringing their operation out West.

When will we understand that nobody is to blame but US for their unwillingness to give our side of the country the the same consideration they do to venues that they hit year-after-year in the Elites--who do EVERYTHING in their power to make their visits highly attended and conflict-free?

Andrew Lippert

bass king
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby bass king » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:12 am

I just wanna know who the f coach is????

Gene Buchholz
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Gene Buchholz » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:43 am

Good one Bass King, Sorry Cooch

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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Roscoe » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:28 am

He's just one of the top sticks around. I understand Bass Queen that you didn't know and was just wondering but he knows the delta better than most and if you ever wanna know what it's like to catch a true delta pig just dial him up and he will give you a lesson for a great price.

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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby mark poulson » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:11 pm

Andy Lippert wrote:Oh, Future Pro Tour is doing something again that doesn't have the best interest of the anglers or this sport at heart? Is anyone really surprised?

Not only will there be conflicts on the water with fishing spots, but the people who are fishing the local derb, obviously have the days off, and my guess is--would have wanted to attend the Elites weigh-ins--and would have. Now BASS once again looks at us like we're not all-in with our support--just another negative for bringing their operation out West.

When will we understand that nobody is to blame but US for their unwillingness to give our side of the country the the same consideration they do to venues that they hit year-after-year in the Elites--who do EVERYTHING in their power to make their visits highly attended and conflict-free?

Andrew Lippert


Andy,
Quite a few years back, KB and JB (Kent Brown and John Barron) came to Anglers Marine in Anaheim to try and persuade the SoCal tournament groups to work together. At the time, their main point was that only through cooperation could all the trails coexist because of the lousy economy and limited pool of tournament anglers.
So they suggested that the local trails get together and work out some kind of a time share system, so everyone could survive.
It was like herding cats. No one wanted to give up anything.
I don't imagine the NoCal groups are any more willing to cooperate, or even coexist.
Each one is so busy trying to make their trail successful in these difficult economic times that they lose sight of the bigger picture.
I fault B.A.S.S., first and foremost, for not taking the initiative and a leading role in avoiding this kind of conflict. They are big boys, and this can't be their first rodeo when it comes to sharing water.
But it is a two way street. If the Ca tournament organizations had listened to KB and JB, there would have been some kind of semi-formal, overarching organization for B.A.S.S. to approach and deal with.
Let us hope it's not too late for all of them to learn this lesson, before they cut off their noses to spite their faces.
After all, since they are the preeminent face of bass fishing nationally, what's good for B.A.S.S, within reason, is good for all organized bass fishing.
Attitude plus effort equal success

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fishinchips
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby fishinchips » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:07 pm

Not so sure that I am so concerned about pointing the finger at BASS. I feel we all should think about the Elite anglers themselves that drove across the country that fish for a living that promote are sport on the highest level. Ya you know...the anglers that will launch out of Old Sac then run for and hour or more one way to get to the fish. I would have to ask myself what kind of fisherman or tournament director who honestly cares about the sport would not show these guys some Nor-Cal hospitality!! and not do anything to conflict with theses guys while there here to compete.
Got Dam having these guys out here is pretty bad a*#!!!

frank
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby frank » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:46 pm

I can see how guys want to roll out the welcome matt for BASS but I don't see how anyone can put the blame on the permit process or DFW. They gave a permit to an organization (BASS) in a location over 1 1/2 to 2 hours away (by water) from the nearest tournament location.

Remember that BASS chose to have their event out of a location that realistically will require the anglers to make huge runs to their primary spots. I have a feeling you will not see any of the top 20 on TV fishing within 15 miles of the launch. They love to create drama with long runs and issues with locals. It is all part of the game.

If DFW or any other authority decided shut down the entire delta to tournaments for the BASS and FLW guys for the 2 back to back tournaments there would be a different thread on here with guys complaining. If the BASS guys want to run that far to an area they know can and will have fishing pressure they are rolling the dice.

I honestly feel that the winner will find a concentration of fish in an area that gets very little pressure. Possibly the area around Liberty Island. Just a hunch.

bass king
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby bass king » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:39 pm

"He's just one of the top sticks around. I understand Bass Queen that you didn't know and was just wondering but he knows the delta better than most and if you ever wanna know what it's like to catch a true delta pig just dial him up and he will give you a lesson for a great price."

Relax you geek, it was just a joke. How the hell do you know what I have and have not caught? Do I know you??? I've probably forgot about more giants than you've ever caught pal. Real.

Roscoe
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Roscoe » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:45 pm

Lol, don't get your panties in a bunch Bass Queen, I was just answering your question. Go ahead and get the last word and let's drop it and I wish you the best out there and hope one day you catch that giant bass that you dream of.

Ceaser
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Ceaser » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:39 pm

Hackney just wrote an article on bassmaster.com talking about this exact deal. He states that Elite guys have no more right to the water than a local guy and hes right. Delta is a HUGE body of water. The elites can be mad but so can the guys fishing for a truck. I personally will be out hosing all my good spots this week, thursday included. The Delta is ON FIRE and guys are supposed to stay off the water just cuz the elites are here... thats a joke. Theres more to the sport of bass fishing than tournaments. Recreational fisherman are what drives tourneys. The article says exactly this. I have the week off and always fish, especially this time of year, these are the best days to be out have the day of your life. i should have em really dialed by thursday, i dont have to run and hour either, just drive off the dock.
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fish_food
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby fish_food » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:51 pm

Ceaser wrote:The Delta is ON FIRE and guys are supposed to stay off the water just cuz the elites are here... thats a joke. Theres more to the sport of bass fishing than tournaments. Recreational fisherman are what drives tourneys.


Bingo. The recreational market is the segment all the brands are targeting via their high profile tournaments like the Elite Series and associated advertising (commercials, spokepersons, logos on boats/jerseys/trucks, etc.).

kraetzer
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby kraetzer » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:56 pm

I never said anything about the elites own the water, people should give them the spots or the elites should have priority over the locals. What I pointed out in my original post was that we have the 2 biggest (money wise) tournaments on the delta at the same time, which could have easily been avoided.
Sorry if you can't see the bigger picture in this.
Ceaser, hope you and everybody else that goes out their this week (includes elites, coors light, other tournaments and recreational fishermen) has fun and enjoys a great fishery.

Tight lines everybody.
kraetzer

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Ceaser
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Ceaser » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:07 pm

I seen the point, but back east the amount of boats we will see this weekend is normal. We have a huge and diverse fishery loaded with fish. There is plenty to go around and this time of year, more boats only adds to the challenge. Thats fishing these days... fishing a spot, catch a fish and as boats go by you hear them marking the GPS coordinates on a freaking wednesday. I doubt the Elites will be hindered by locals fishing. just my opinion tho.
is that glitter!? Nice boat tinkerbell!

Noluk
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Noluk » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:19 am

It really doesn't matter what we schedule or do on the Elite dates. Yes there are a few other tournaments but it isn't like anyone would be staying home and NOT fishing the weekend just because the Elites are out there. There are lots of boats out on the water on any weekend. Heck the elites will probably get MORE room from someone fishing for a truck, who is worried about a DQ, than some fun fishing folks. Although the northern guys seem a bit more considerate overall when I visit their waters than I occasionally observe down south.

The biggest key to this weekend will be safety while running for everyone. The fishing at the end of the day will be fish caught or lost. What we don't need is a boating safety incident in the National news and there will be people pushing their speed on time all over the Delta this weekend.

Rick G
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Rick G » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:05 pm

At the same meeting at my shop that Mark Paulson was referring to I suggested a "Tournament Czar" that would be just perfect for situations like this. His word is final. Have one guy who with approval and appointed by all the permit getting Org's settle conflicts like this. Really there are 52 weeks in the year and it could not have been worked out? BASS Elite events are like a Super Bowl coming to your town. They set the table for every Jersey wearing guy no matter what level your at. The Org's can work all this out if they let their ego's get out of they way for the best of the sport. BTW I am looking forward to the FLW Delta as I got in today and for all you guys that live up there and get to fish that that place all the time..............YOU ARE BLESSED BEYOND BELIEF!

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Roscoe
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Re: elites vs "locals"

Postby Roscoe » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:22 pm

Would it make sense if the elites out of respect for locals start their tourneys on Tuesdays and finals on a Friday? I know it comes down to $ but by the time they do weigh ins the fans should be off work and still make it to watch weigh ins and also that leaves the fishing to all the locals on the weekends since most have real jobs and can only fish sat/sun.


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