After having a few days to digest all of the comments regarding BASS and ESPN as well as the remarks toward Don R, I feel that I should voice my opinion.
First, let's go back in time to when BASS first came out WEST. We as West coast anglers begged them and guaranteed full fields. Myself included. But guess what, when Bass took a chance on us we failed to meet the standards of full fields.
Second, Bass leaves and comes back at a later time. We say (myself included) the participation will be there, and it wasn't. We failed to man up and fish. I can name so many people that should have been fishing but chose not to. This is when the entry fees were extremely competitive with all of the other west coat trails, and had much more impact for the anglers. Televised and so forth. Case and point is Andy Cuccia. We all know that Andy Cuccia is a great MC and has a wealth of knowledge about fishing and fisherman. Following his performance at Oroville, I would be willing to bet he became much more valuable than ANY west coast tour could have provided him.
I don't want ths to be a "come to BASS ESPN defense" but we in the west coast really haven't stepped up to the plate. I think there are still venues that haven't paid BASS for their visits. (I'm not sure, don't quote me)
I do know this, BASS and ESPN are striving to really assist all the anglers including the WEST coast guys such as myself in building our brands. WEST coast has definately received much more noteriety than the rest of the field.
BASS / ESPN are trying to accomplish something that has never been done before. If BASS and ESPN achieve this, all anglers from all over the US can benefit from it. Bass fishing is a way of life out here on tour east of TEXAS. EVeryone knows who you are and knows what Bass fishing is all about. The sport is growing and I can honestly say it aint cause of FLW. (THIS IS IN NO WAY A PUT DOWN TO FLW) Let's face it, there are still people who don't even know when or where to watch an FLW event. Just look at Dean Saults thread.
From experience in owning a business, and becoming farily successful, sometimes we have to expierement. I have learned one thing, expierements never fail. Thay might not always be the right answer, but they always assist us in finding it. Let's hope BASS and ESPN find it.
Coming out to fish the ELITES has definately opened my eyes. At first I was disgusted with the entry fees and rules and regs that BASS and ESPN had for us. But after three events, they are there for a reason. An angler can definately earn a living fishing out here if they can hack it. The scary thing is, it is like fishing the CA DELTA against 105 STEVE SAPPS!!! You have to be on your game, and you have to find those fish in 2 1/2 days on bodies of water you have never been on that are 10 times the size of SHASTA and waters as rough as the ocean. But after all said and done, whether we do well or not BASS and ESPN are still trying to build our brands.
In a nut shell, I just feel we need to be patient and understanding to the times we are going thorugh right now. I am sure that the WEST Coast is soon to become a major factor in all facets of BASS. That measns everything from a circuit to ELITE Stops and possibly a Classic. This I promise you. The West coast has too much to offer. Patience and support will definately be the keys to what we all want.
Just my opinion
Vince Hurtado
Bassmaster ESPN different prospective than most Westerners
-
rickyshabazz
- Posts: 661
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 2:03 pm
- Location: Rialto, CA
My take-Good luck Vince
First and foremost, Good luck Vince. I admire anyone who puts it all on the line and chases after their Dream . I have qualified twice and have been too chicken to put everything on the line.
With that said, I agree and disagree with your post:
“The sport is growing and I can honestly say it aint cause of FLWâ€
With that said, I agree and disagree with your post:
“The sport is growing and I can honestly say it aint cause of FLWâ€
The Wanabepro
Re: My take-Good luck Vince
Ricky as usual you are diplomatic and think things through. One thing you forgot to mention is that FLW rewards anglers for certain products used. Example, Ranger boats, Garmin electronics, Minnkota, and Evinrude and Yamaha. So this will definately weigh on decision making. It did on me.
My decision was based on which circuit could assist me in my career. Can you name the top 5 people in points in BASS Western Opens last year? Now do you know the top five in Everstart now stren. The circulation of FLW magazine is not even close to how many people receive bassmaster and Bass Insider news. My name was in print much more and provides me as an angler with more impressions and exposure for my current and future sponsors. BASS is where I put my eggs in.
Again this was my decision, but I made sure I loked at the whole picture and not just what was in the picture.
Take care my friend and keep up the good work out west.
Vince
My decision was based on which circuit could assist me in my career. Can you name the top 5 people in points in BASS Western Opens last year? Now do you know the top five in Everstart now stren. The circulation of FLW magazine is not even close to how many people receive bassmaster and Bass Insider news. My name was in print much more and provides me as an angler with more impressions and exposure for my current and future sponsors. BASS is where I put my eggs in.
Again this was my decision, but I made sure I loked at the whole picture and not just what was in the picture.
Take care my friend and keep up the good work out west.
Vince
Re: Counter Point - Patience has worn thin
Vince,
I respect your opinion and I am happy that BASS is making some great progress with the Elite series to move Pro fishing to a new level. I had my doubts, but they seem to finally be getting the picture that if it does not work for the anglers it does not work for them. I hope they succeed and you guys from the West reap the rewards. While I am not a BASS fan anymore, I respect the fact they seem to be rying hard to make the Elite Series work for the anglers. They owe those of you who took a chance on them that much.
On the other hand the Northern and Southern Tours seem to be failing. Adding a Western Tour I fear will not be well accepted and it this point it will also be a failure. I was one who chose not to support the Opens in the West. When I researched the paybacks they did not make finacial sense. I did fish a couple where I felt I had a good chance of winning. Last year at Clear Lake, I paid a $1200 entry fee to take 8th place and win $3300. I knew going in that if I did not finish in the top three, I would only break even and probably loose money. I did not achieve my goal and that is not their fault. Simple fact is the structure of their payback stunk and that keeps people away from their events. That is not our fault. They are selling a product and we owe them nothing.
I was shocked at the way we were treated. Even after the cut it was "give me your fish and get off the stage". I was threatened with a fine should I ever be late paying my "ballance due" again. I told them that should not be a problem.
The there was the fact that they paid back based on 125 anglers when accepting entry fees from about 150, if I remember right. That is wrong and I personally feel they now owe us. To sum it up, they treated us like crap. That point is further driven home by how well we are treated at FLW events.
I do not see what has changed. They have a dislike for the West and are only thinking of coming back becuase their sponsors are national in scope and not regional. They cannot succeed at attracting/maintaining national sponsors if they are but a regional player. Triton likes to sell boats in the West too.
At this point they cannot come West and expect immediate support. They did not do what they needed to build support on their last 2 experiments with the West and now they have to overcome the resentment that has built up. They need to commit to the West for the long haul, offer a good product, and win over anglers one at a time. If they are not willing to do that they are waisting their time. It will take a few years at least usless they were to offer something we could not affford to pass up.
As you know respect and loyaly are earned. BASS has dug a deep hole here in the West and they will not climb out by thowing us a bone and blessing us with a circuit to fish next year.
Anyway, Good luck at Guntersville. We are all pulling for you Western boys!
I respect your opinion and I am happy that BASS is making some great progress with the Elite series to move Pro fishing to a new level. I had my doubts, but they seem to finally be getting the picture that if it does not work for the anglers it does not work for them. I hope they succeed and you guys from the West reap the rewards. While I am not a BASS fan anymore, I respect the fact they seem to be rying hard to make the Elite Series work for the anglers. They owe those of you who took a chance on them that much.
On the other hand the Northern and Southern Tours seem to be failing. Adding a Western Tour I fear will not be well accepted and it this point it will also be a failure. I was one who chose not to support the Opens in the West. When I researched the paybacks they did not make finacial sense. I did fish a couple where I felt I had a good chance of winning. Last year at Clear Lake, I paid a $1200 entry fee to take 8th place and win $3300. I knew going in that if I did not finish in the top three, I would only break even and probably loose money. I did not achieve my goal and that is not their fault. Simple fact is the structure of their payback stunk and that keeps people away from their events. That is not our fault. They are selling a product and we owe them nothing.
I was shocked at the way we were treated. Even after the cut it was "give me your fish and get off the stage". I was threatened with a fine should I ever be late paying my "ballance due" again. I told them that should not be a problem.
The there was the fact that they paid back based on 125 anglers when accepting entry fees from about 150, if I remember right. That is wrong and I personally feel they now owe us. To sum it up, they treated us like crap. That point is further driven home by how well we are treated at FLW events. I do not see what has changed. They have a dislike for the West and are only thinking of coming back becuase their sponsors are national in scope and not regional. They cannot succeed at attracting/maintaining national sponsors if they are but a regional player. Triton likes to sell boats in the West too.
At this point they cannot come West and expect immediate support. They did not do what they needed to build support on their last 2 experiments with the West and now they have to overcome the resentment that has built up. They need to commit to the West for the long haul, offer a good product, and win over anglers one at a time. If they are not willing to do that they are waisting their time. It will take a few years at least usless they were to offer something we could not affford to pass up.
As you know respect and loyaly are earned. BASS has dug a deep hole here in the West and they will not climb out by thowing us a bone and blessing us with a circuit to fish next year.
Anyway, Good luck at Guntersville. We are all pulling for you Western boys!
Dewayne
-
Rich hamilton
- Posts: 1362
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:19 pm
Re: Bassmaster ESPN different prospective than most Westerne
I guess we have to agree to disagree on this issue buddy. I wish you the best chasing your dream and hope it becomes a reality. From a business perspective, to blame the customers from non patronage is whacky. It is the business and their business plan to fail or be successful. Walmart is a national brand as was B.A.S.S. they have figured out how to work nationwide. If venues did not pay for the Bassmaster tournaments then there are plenty of bottom dwellers looking for payback in our court system. It is not the anglers fault that a venue did not live up to the contractual agreement. I bet if they just went to Vegas they would solve any media/money problems. I still think that market is untapped if handled with a media giant such as Espn or Fsn. Simply put i believe we are just a little too liberal out here on the west coast. If you cracked the books on ESPN's market analysis you would find ole California just does not match up with the intended target market. Having the 8th largest economy in the world I cant for the life of me understand why we have not been tapped into. I think FLW has got some plans that will make the bass fishing industry as we know it turn upside down. There are plenty of creative minds out there who leave most of us perplexed saying " why didn't we think of that?" RR
If I don't meet you no more in this world Then I'll see you in the next one. Don't be late... Don't be late... Stevie Ray/Hendrix
Re: Bassmaster ESPN different prospective than most Westerne
Vince you have walked into a room full of guys carrying loaded guns with nothing but a Buck Knife. We are all supporters of the Western guys traveling to the Elite Series and I for one try to keep the folks back home up on what you guys are doing with the radio show each week.
However for you to tell the Western Anglers we didn't keep our end of the bargain up here in the West is a bit off. BASS left the West not once but twice. In the final year here last year they outdrew their new Southern Tour, raised out entry fee, cut the payback, cut the number of anglers making the last day cut, cut the number of anglers making the Open Championship. This they did exclusivly here on the West Coast and nowhere else in the country and then before the season even began the word was out that they were not coming back to the west even though the held permits for 2006 (I know I pulled them for them at the Jamboree).
Don Rucks has said "We aren't pulling out of the West, we may hold a Classic there in the near future" That is great!!!! So all of us that did support them in the past can go to a weigh-in and watch the fireworks, eat popcorn and work for our sponsors that we can't promote while fishing a national circuit since BASS hasn't been back. I hope you make that Classic because if not, your buying the Popcorn.
I hope we can name the guys that finished in the top 5 in BASS last year, you were one of them. Can you name the top five in the Southern Tour Standings. (No fair going to Bassmaster.com). You have to understand the guys here in the West are going to be supporters of FLW because they are here and proving that if you put on the same show each time the guys will come and play and if you hadn't taken the plunge and gone back you would be fishing the Stren Series as well.
Now yes BASS is going the extra mile to promote the Western guys, or are they. The first 3 Elite Series events has seen 6 of 9 in the top three come from the West and four of them have weighed in over 100 pounds of fish and the fifth one had 99. Kinda hard to omit that from the coverage don't ya think
. I haven't seen all the shows but there hasn't been a great deal of coverage of the remaining Western anglers. I am sorry but even though I enjoyed looking at everyone's boats I don't think the contest on Bassmaster.com showing everyone's $4000+ wrap job constitutes as exposure. Oh and your boat looks pretty cool but I don't think those wheels will last long in Waterford 
.
If Bass comes back to the West in 2007 they need to keep a couple things in mind. Whatever they do in the rest of the country they need to do here. If they give a glass boat away for 2nd in Florida, give one away here. Payback on the number of entry's (1-5 seems to work ok) Do a fair payback for the entry fee's and don't cut the number of western qualifiers for any championship they want to hold. Announce a schedule so anglers can arrange time off of work, make the am side attractive to the am's, provide a prize boat no matter what boat you own. Go to the lakes that provide good fishing at a time that the fish bite, that seems to be working for the Elite series not just a location that will pay them the fee. Put on a first class show and promote the anglers that support you. Don't make stupid demands on the anglers and treat them like they are your most valued customer, they are. All of the above BASS has failed at. Can you remember in the last 3 years of BASS Opens in the West anyone from ESPN/BASS attending the event, thanking the anglers and trying to get to know any of us?
I for one will support BASS if they come back in 2007 and I would also continue to support FLW as well. My sponsors kinda line up nicely with BASS and I would have no excuse not to besides I really enjoyed fishing their events, even though I made more money as an MC
.
I wish you luck back there and always check the standings each day for your name. I am a fan of all the guys from the West and I think we should all be. Check in from time to time on Ultimate Bass and tell us about life on the road. Good Luck Vince!!!
kb
However for you to tell the Western Anglers we didn't keep our end of the bargain up here in the West is a bit off. BASS left the West not once but twice. In the final year here last year they outdrew their new Southern Tour, raised out entry fee, cut the payback, cut the number of anglers making the last day cut, cut the number of anglers making the Open Championship. This they did exclusivly here on the West Coast and nowhere else in the country and then before the season even began the word was out that they were not coming back to the west even though the held permits for 2006 (I know I pulled them for them at the Jamboree).
Don Rucks has said "We aren't pulling out of the West, we may hold a Classic there in the near future" That is great!!!! So all of us that did support them in the past can go to a weigh-in and watch the fireworks, eat popcorn and work for our sponsors that we can't promote while fishing a national circuit since BASS hasn't been back. I hope you make that Classic because if not, your buying the Popcorn.
I hope we can name the guys that finished in the top 5 in BASS last year, you were one of them. Can you name the top five in the Southern Tour Standings. (No fair going to Bassmaster.com). You have to understand the guys here in the West are going to be supporters of FLW because they are here and proving that if you put on the same show each time the guys will come and play and if you hadn't taken the plunge and gone back you would be fishing the Stren Series as well.
Now yes BASS is going the extra mile to promote the Western guys, or are they. The first 3 Elite Series events has seen 6 of 9 in the top three come from the West and four of them have weighed in over 100 pounds of fish and the fifth one had 99. Kinda hard to omit that from the coverage don't ya think
. I haven't seen all the shows but there hasn't been a great deal of coverage of the remaining Western anglers. I am sorry but even though I enjoyed looking at everyone's boats I don't think the contest on Bassmaster.com showing everyone's $4000+ wrap job constitutes as exposure. Oh and your boat looks pretty cool but I don't think those wheels will last long in Waterford .If Bass comes back to the West in 2007 they need to keep a couple things in mind. Whatever they do in the rest of the country they need to do here. If they give a glass boat away for 2nd in Florida, give one away here. Payback on the number of entry's (1-5 seems to work ok) Do a fair payback for the entry fee's and don't cut the number of western qualifiers for any championship they want to hold. Announce a schedule so anglers can arrange time off of work, make the am side attractive to the am's, provide a prize boat no matter what boat you own. Go to the lakes that provide good fishing at a time that the fish bite, that seems to be working for the Elite series not just a location that will pay them the fee. Put on a first class show and promote the anglers that support you. Don't make stupid demands on the anglers and treat them like they are your most valued customer, they are. All of the above BASS has failed at. Can you remember in the last 3 years of BASS Opens in the West anyone from ESPN/BASS attending the event, thanking the anglers and trying to get to know any of us?
I for one will support BASS if they come back in 2007 and I would also continue to support FLW as well. My sponsors kinda line up nicely with BASS and I would have no excuse not to besides I really enjoyed fishing their events, even though I made more money as an MC
.I wish you luck back there and always check the standings each day for your name. I am a fan of all the guys from the West and I think we should all be. Check in from time to time on Ultimate Bass and tell us about life on the road. Good Luck Vince!!!
kb
You and I are gong to have to agree to disagree.
Hi Vince,
I've been following your efforts on the tour. I was glad to see you get a check in the most recent event. Hopefully, it is the first of many to come.
As far as FLW vs BASS/ESPN, there are big differences in the two organizations. ESPN has clearly created the best bass fishing television yet. They are doing a lot to promote the "Elite" anglers and it seems to be working. On the other hand, I feel BASS/ESPN has abandoned their base. Through the misguided leadership of Rucks, they betrayed the trust they had with thousands of former B.A.S.S. supporters. They gutted the Federation. These guys are the core of bass fishing. They made B.A.S.S. successful in the first place. When ESPN/Rucks eliminated the Opens, replacing them with a new setup, this left many people feeling BASS has abandoned their most loyal customers. The results are obvious....poor turnout. And, a large number of long time B.A.S.S. members transferred their Federation loyalty to the FLW. Frankly, I think this was Rucks' biggest mistake so far.
As far as the west, B.A.S.S. never took the time to understand their market. No business can succeed without knowing their customers. As a result, they failed to attract full fields. They were arrogant in their take-it-or-leave-it position and they paid for it. There was no FAULT with western anglers. They were just consumers who rejected a product! All the "fault" belongs to a company that failed to study its customers and offer an attractive product.
B.A.S.S. can be very arrogant when dealing with anglers. Today, they have chosen to put most of their investment into 100 "elite" fishermen. In the process, they are neglecting thousands of working class "clients" who made them possible. If they succeed in creating television superstars out of the "Elite 100" anglers, then, perhaps they will be able to continue ignoring the rest of the bass fishing community. I'm sure they will make lots of profit from television advertising revenue. But I wonder if that money will filter down to the "Elite 100". After all, the total payback at each Elite 100 event is only 136% of entry fees. That is about the same payout percentage they have used for the last decade in most of their major events. Nothing changed...except the gross dollars. Fishermen are again fishing mostly for their own money!
Vince, as one of the "Elite" few, you happen to be one of 100 beneficiaries of the latest ESPN plan. The rest of us are customers! We will decide how to spend our money. If the ESPN/BASS customer service is not there, then our dollars will go elsewhere. Its just business...and by the looks of the new Southern Tour, the customers are voting with their pocketbooks.
The point of my criticism on Rucks/ESPN/BASS is to try to get their attention. I would love to see BASS return to the "fraternity" of anglers it once was. There is no reason they could not have BOTH broad television acceptance of an Elite 100...and...strong support for their underlying fan base. Instead, they chose a business model which thumbs its nose at the working-man bass fishermen. In the long run, I'm betting the average guy will be offended by this approach and turn to FLW for it's better customer treatment. Sure, there will always be BASS groupies at every Elite event giving the impression of strong support. But the greater society of bass enthusiasts will become tired of seeing all the benefits handed to such a small group of "elite" anglers.
By the way, I have a problem with ESPN owning ANY sports organization. There is a healthy distance between major event organizers and major event reporters like TV networks. Does ESPN own the NFL? No. Do they own the NBA? No. Do they own the NCAA? No. Do they own NASCAR, NHRA, USOC, PGA or any other major sports authiority? Of course, not! Major sports organizations are owned by people who's primary loyalty is to the growth of their sport. And, ALL these entities have players' associations which act as advocates for the players! Television deals are negotiated between the networks and the organizations. But, with ESPN "owning" B.A.S.S., the fox is guarding the chicken coup. By the way, who represents all you guys on the "Elite 100"? I'll bet there is no real negotiation to be had between the network (ESPN) and the fishing superstars who make it possible! It's a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. This could not be a sweeter deal for ESPN...create an "Elite" class fo fishermen who have absolutely NO clout in getting their piece of the pie. In fact, if they complain, call it a violation of the rules and replace them with some other naive fishermen waiting in the wings for his chance at stardom.
Again, Vince, I wish you all the success in the world. And, if I was walking your path, I'd also be a team player using the company rhetoric. But, the rest of us are the consumers. We make it possible for YOU to enjoy your dream. Your opportunity does NOT come from ESPN/BASS. It comes from the public. And right now, quite a few members of the public are not happy with your bosses!
Good luck,
Dean Sault
I've been following your efforts on the tour. I was glad to see you get a check in the most recent event. Hopefully, it is the first of many to come.
As far as FLW vs BASS/ESPN, there are big differences in the two organizations. ESPN has clearly created the best bass fishing television yet. They are doing a lot to promote the "Elite" anglers and it seems to be working. On the other hand, I feel BASS/ESPN has abandoned their base. Through the misguided leadership of Rucks, they betrayed the trust they had with thousands of former B.A.S.S. supporters. They gutted the Federation. These guys are the core of bass fishing. They made B.A.S.S. successful in the first place. When ESPN/Rucks eliminated the Opens, replacing them with a new setup, this left many people feeling BASS has abandoned their most loyal customers. The results are obvious....poor turnout. And, a large number of long time B.A.S.S. members transferred their Federation loyalty to the FLW. Frankly, I think this was Rucks' biggest mistake so far.
As far as the west, B.A.S.S. never took the time to understand their market. No business can succeed without knowing their customers. As a result, they failed to attract full fields. They were arrogant in their take-it-or-leave-it position and they paid for it. There was no FAULT with western anglers. They were just consumers who rejected a product! All the "fault" belongs to a company that failed to study its customers and offer an attractive product.
B.A.S.S. can be very arrogant when dealing with anglers. Today, they have chosen to put most of their investment into 100 "elite" fishermen. In the process, they are neglecting thousands of working class "clients" who made them possible. If they succeed in creating television superstars out of the "Elite 100" anglers, then, perhaps they will be able to continue ignoring the rest of the bass fishing community. I'm sure they will make lots of profit from television advertising revenue. But I wonder if that money will filter down to the "Elite 100". After all, the total payback at each Elite 100 event is only 136% of entry fees. That is about the same payout percentage they have used for the last decade in most of their major events. Nothing changed...except the gross dollars. Fishermen are again fishing mostly for their own money!
Vince, as one of the "Elite" few, you happen to be one of 100 beneficiaries of the latest ESPN plan. The rest of us are customers! We will decide how to spend our money. If the ESPN/BASS customer service is not there, then our dollars will go elsewhere. Its just business...and by the looks of the new Southern Tour, the customers are voting with their pocketbooks.
The point of my criticism on Rucks/ESPN/BASS is to try to get their attention. I would love to see BASS return to the "fraternity" of anglers it once was. There is no reason they could not have BOTH broad television acceptance of an Elite 100...and...strong support for their underlying fan base. Instead, they chose a business model which thumbs its nose at the working-man bass fishermen. In the long run, I'm betting the average guy will be offended by this approach and turn to FLW for it's better customer treatment. Sure, there will always be BASS groupies at every Elite event giving the impression of strong support. But the greater society of bass enthusiasts will become tired of seeing all the benefits handed to such a small group of "elite" anglers.
By the way, I have a problem with ESPN owning ANY sports organization. There is a healthy distance between major event organizers and major event reporters like TV networks. Does ESPN own the NFL? No. Do they own the NBA? No. Do they own the NCAA? No. Do they own NASCAR, NHRA, USOC, PGA or any other major sports authiority? Of course, not! Major sports organizations are owned by people who's primary loyalty is to the growth of their sport. And, ALL these entities have players' associations which act as advocates for the players! Television deals are negotiated between the networks and the organizations. But, with ESPN "owning" B.A.S.S., the fox is guarding the chicken coup. By the way, who represents all you guys on the "Elite 100"? I'll bet there is no real negotiation to be had between the network (ESPN) and the fishing superstars who make it possible! It's a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. This could not be a sweeter deal for ESPN...create an "Elite" class fo fishermen who have absolutely NO clout in getting their piece of the pie. In fact, if they complain, call it a violation of the rules and replace them with some other naive fishermen waiting in the wings for his chance at stardom.
Again, Vince, I wish you all the success in the world. And, if I was walking your path, I'd also be a team player using the company rhetoric. But, the rest of us are the consumers. We make it possible for YOU to enjoy your dream. Your opportunity does NOT come from ESPN/BASS. It comes from the public. And right now, quite a few members of the public are not happy with your bosses!
Good luck,
Dean Sault
Last edited by NaCl on Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
Vince Borges
- Posts: 513
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:15 pm
- Location: Modesto CA
Re: You and I are gong to have to agree to disagree.
Wow Dean, I felt like i was reading one of those novels that you just cant put down. Take a breather and go fishing . I couldnt agree with you more. Poor Vince i wish you the best but to come on here and support BASS is like putting a gun to your own head and asking your enemy to pull the trigger 
. Bass is gone as far as im conserned so you might want to start looking into the FLW Tour for future employment, ( besides Ive heard it from the grape vine that they pay there employees more money) shhhh. As i said above and so has everyone else, we may not support BASS/ ESPN but we are behind our western guys 120%. Good Luck and kick some southern bASS.
Vince Borges
. I couldnt agree with you more. Poor Vince i wish you the best but to come on here and support BASS is like putting a gun to your own head and asking your enemy to pull the trigger . Bass is gone as far as im conserned so you might want to start looking into the FLW Tour for future employment, ( besides Ive heard it from the grape vine that they pay there employees more money) shhhh. As i said above and so has everyone else, we may not support BASS/ ESPN but we are behind our western guys 120%. Good Luck and kick some southern bASS.Vince Borges
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Re: You and I are gong to have to agree to disagree.
I gotta say, this one of the most fascinating threads I have read in some time. Mainly because of the people that have chosen to post. Some of the most well respected and well-spoken individuals in the West....who KNOW bass tournament fishing. And to think, all of this sharing of ideas and opinions has happened without the thread sinking to an offensive low of insults and derogatory comments. Who knew that was possible?!
Great thread guys. Thanks to Vince for presenting his point of view which allowed an opportunity for others to voice theirs.
As for the BASS vs FLW issue...I will spend my money wherever I feel I am treated the best. Right now there is no contest. I hope to participate in the 2007 Stren Series as a co-angler.
Great thread guys. Thanks to Vince for presenting his point of view which allowed an opportunity for others to voice theirs.
As for the BASS vs FLW issue...I will spend my money wherever I feel I am treated the best. Right now there is no contest. I hope to participate in the 2007 Stren Series as a co-angler.
My novel will be out later this year! No joke!
It's called "The Human Solution". I hope it captures as much attention as my criticism of B.A.S.S.! if It does, it's sure to be a success! HaHa!
.....NaCl
.....NaCl
-
Rich hamilton
- Posts: 1362
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:19 pm
Re: Ghost Writer needed....
Salt,
now that my family has "survived" chasing the dream of NCAA sports for our son and daughter (14 years), we intend on writing a book for dummies on what to do and not to do with future kids and their parents participating in sports. The prospective title is "so you want to be a basketball player" We can either write a book and purge or spend thousands of dollars and years of therapy! If I could pick a writer and someone who can articulate like you can, it would be hands down the "salt man". I think B.A.S.S. should hire you out as a consultant and save themselves alot of grief! RR
now that my family has "survived" chasing the dream of NCAA sports for our son and daughter (14 years), we intend on writing a book for dummies on what to do and not to do with future kids and their parents participating in sports. The prospective title is "so you want to be a basketball player" We can either write a book and purge or spend thousands of dollars and years of therapy! If I could pick a writer and someone who can articulate like you can, it would be hands down the "salt man". I think B.A.S.S. should hire you out as a consultant and save themselves alot of grief! RR
If I don't meet you no more in this world Then I'll see you in the next one. Don't be late... Don't be late... Stevie Ray/Hendrix
Re: Bassmaster ESPN different prospective than most Westerne
It should also be noted that it wasn't just "The West " that had problems with the way ESPN/BASS was running things.
Several long time, big name ,southern BASS anglers also defected to the FLW after last year so there's more to the story........
Several long time, big name ,southern BASS anglers also defected to the FLW after last year so there's more to the story........
Re: You and I are gong to have to agree to disagree.
Wow I could'nt have said it better myself. I am glad to hear that I'm not the only one with these feelings of BASS. Forest L Woods for President!!!lol
Re: My novel will be out later this year! No joke!
OK, OK, I will put my buck knife away Kent!!! There are very many solid points made, but let's agree on a few things.
I do agree that many anglers came out and fished the opens this past year. But both you and I know that there were many anglers who fished in there selected areas or favorite fisheries. In the other tours North, South, they all seem to go to all the events until the last event, which is understandable because we in the west still experience the same thing, when we know that we won't be making the TOC or some sort of championship we bail.
$1200 was steep last year and now $1500 is definately having impact on participation. But again there are alternatives. Now there is a weekend series, where frankly thats where 40% of the tour field belongs anyway. So now there is a weekend series where the 40 -75 hour a week working person can compete, and a tour level where the more experienced or persons that have more time to practice can utilize.
As for paybacks, all of you are preaching to the choir. Know one knows this better than I. Last year in BASS I had a 17th, 13th, (8th,9th or 10th??? cant remember) I came out with $6500 in winnings and then left to Alabama for the Open Championship, and made another $1000 or so. My expenses more than doubled my earnings. But when all said and done it has built my value. And when we compete, unless competing purely for a hobbie, we ( I ) have to go with who can build my value best.
I sincerely hope that Bass comes back WEST and meets all of our expectations, but I think in order to do so we as anglers need to do this in a pro-active way rather than negatively pointing fingers at personnel. We might not like whats going on but that is why we have voices, and therefore should use them in a manner that can benefit us. Prime example is the PAA. Not many anglers truly understand the purpose of the PAA. I can tell you this, they are responsible for us anglers using our boats on day three (the first cutt) of the tournament. NCBF (WESTERNBASS users) are a strong union (voice), I honestly believe, if used properly we can all have our cake and eat it too.
I miss the West Coast and my family, but I sure don't mind missing all that rain!!!! I hope that in the future, threads that can have much impact are done to benefit and not to destroy.
Yall take care-
Vince
I do agree that many anglers came out and fished the opens this past year. But both you and I know that there were many anglers who fished in there selected areas or favorite fisheries. In the other tours North, South, they all seem to go to all the events until the last event, which is understandable because we in the west still experience the same thing, when we know that we won't be making the TOC or some sort of championship we bail.
$1200 was steep last year and now $1500 is definately having impact on participation. But again there are alternatives. Now there is a weekend series, where frankly thats where 40% of the tour field belongs anyway. So now there is a weekend series where the 40 -75 hour a week working person can compete, and a tour level where the more experienced or persons that have more time to practice can utilize.
As for paybacks, all of you are preaching to the choir. Know one knows this better than I. Last year in BASS I had a 17th, 13th, (8th,9th or 10th??? cant remember) I came out with $6500 in winnings and then left to Alabama for the Open Championship, and made another $1000 or so. My expenses more than doubled my earnings. But when all said and done it has built my value. And when we compete, unless competing purely for a hobbie, we ( I ) have to go with who can build my value best.
I sincerely hope that Bass comes back WEST and meets all of our expectations, but I think in order to do so we as anglers need to do this in a pro-active way rather than negatively pointing fingers at personnel. We might not like whats going on but that is why we have voices, and therefore should use them in a manner that can benefit us. Prime example is the PAA. Not many anglers truly understand the purpose of the PAA. I can tell you this, they are responsible for us anglers using our boats on day three (the first cutt) of the tournament. NCBF (WESTERNBASS users) are a strong union (voice), I honestly believe, if used properly we can all have our cake and eat it too.
I miss the West Coast and my family, but I sure don't mind missing all that rain!!!! I hope that in the future, threads that can have much impact are done to benefit and not to destroy.
Yall take care-
Vince
So, I'm a whore now?????
You said, "I think B.A.S.S. should hire you out as a consultant and save themselves alot of grief!"
Do you really think they could afford me? Surely, you don't think I would prostitute my straight forward opinions for the sake of a dollar! Besides, I don't think the Rucks and Bullwinkle show would tolerate my impudence!
Truth is, I'd love to see b.a.s.s. (notice the small case letters...pun intended!) recover from it's self inflicted head wound. But, I don't think they have the brass....uhhhh, tacks....to do what needs to be done. If they ever ask my opinion, I will gladly provide it free of charge. If the DON"T ask my opinion, I will gladly provide it free of charge! LOL!
Good luck with your book. It sounds like there is a market for it's wisdom. I've got my hands full right now as I ghost write for a few other folks and there's barely any time left to fish. Speaking of which, I'm spending way too much time on this damn computer! Think I'll go home and count Senkos! HaHa!
.....NaCl
Do you really think they could afford me? Surely, you don't think I would prostitute my straight forward opinions for the sake of a dollar! Besides, I don't think the Rucks and Bullwinkle show would tolerate my impudence!
Truth is, I'd love to see b.a.s.s. (notice the small case letters...pun intended!) recover from it's self inflicted head wound. But, I don't think they have the brass....uhhhh, tacks....to do what needs to be done. If they ever ask my opinion, I will gladly provide it free of charge. If the DON"T ask my opinion, I will gladly provide it free of charge! LOL!
Good luck with your book. It sounds like there is a market for it's wisdom. I've got my hands full right now as I ghost write for a few other folks and there's barely any time left to fish. Speaking of which, I'm spending way too much time on this damn computer! Think I'll go home and count Senkos! HaHa!
.....NaCl
Ohhh the weekend series....
[quote="VinceH"]So now there is a weekend series where the 40 -75 hour a week working person can compete, and a tour level where the more experienced or persons that have more time to practice can utilize.
Where are the ones WEST of Texas? I'll be sure to fish them. Oh? They aren't WEST of Texas? There's a surprise LOL
Where are the ones WEST of Texas? I'll be sure to fish them. Oh? They aren't WEST of Texas? There's a surprise LOL
Re: Bassmaster ESPN different prospective than most Westerne
I agree that bass has made some harsh decisions when it comes to the western anglers, but on the other hand I have always wanted to fish the national tour so if and when bass/espn decides to come back out west I am all in regardless of entry simply because I enjoy fishing at that level. I have been fishing for a long time and it wasnt until last year that I was ready to compete on that level so I made a commitment to fish all three events knowing that there was a chance I would lose the 3600.00 in entry fees but I am chasing the dream and if they came back I woulnt even think twice about fishing because I am ready to make the next step you have to give a little to get a little. Tournament bass fishing is not at all a garunteed money making sport but you have to start somewhere if you dont fish you cant win.
BUZZBAITS IN FEBRUARY!@#$%^&*(
Vince, nice job
out there. Thanks for your thoughts. It will be some time before we see big events like in the east, but we may see BASS Tour events in 2008.
When there are enough events, we can really see some traction with more folks fishing. It's VERY difficult to name who stays in the west and makes a living from fishing. Not who goes to all the events, but who TRUELY makes a living.
Good luck my friend and keep the dream alive!
When there are enough events, we can really see some traction with more folks fishing. It's VERY difficult to name who stays in the west and makes a living from fishing. Not who goes to all the events, but who TRUELY makes a living.
Good luck my friend and keep the dream alive!
Dave Cole
With all due respect to you Vince...
...(and I sincerely mean that, as you are a class act and living the dream that many of us have), but the proof is in the pudding.
You would think that grass roots tournament bass anglers in Oklahoma (the very heart of bass fishing country) would be seriously standing behind BASS/ESPN. But guess what? They aren't. At a recent (4-2-06) BASSMASTER Series tournament at Grand Lake, Oklahoma, they drew TWENTY-ONE (21) boats.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassm ... mentId=861
The BASSMASTER Series is BASS/ESPN's attempt at duplicating FLW's Wal-Mart Bass Fishing League (the BFL's). To further show how weak this turnout is, they take the Top-30 guys to their regional championship, yet only drew 21 guys. I assure you that there are a hell of a lot more guys who are able to fish the BASSMASTER Series than the Elite Series, yet 21 guys is the best that they can do? Even the very worst Western BFL drew (more than) twice that number.
I respect your opinion regarding BASS/ESPN and understand that you are somewhat obligated to act as an ambassador for them, but BASS/ESPN (under Don Rucks) have shat on themselves and are no longer the premiere tournament organization of choice amongst that vast majority of tournament anglers; not on ANY level.
I wish you nothing but the very best of luck to you in the Elite Series and will be rooting for you at the 2007 Classic.
You would think that grass roots tournament bass anglers in Oklahoma (the very heart of bass fishing country) would be seriously standing behind BASS/ESPN. But guess what? They aren't. At a recent (4-2-06) BASSMASTER Series tournament at Grand Lake, Oklahoma, they drew TWENTY-ONE (21) boats.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassm ... mentId=861
The BASSMASTER Series is BASS/ESPN's attempt at duplicating FLW's Wal-Mart Bass Fishing League (the BFL's). To further show how weak this turnout is, they take the Top-30 guys to their regional championship, yet only drew 21 guys. I assure you that there are a hell of a lot more guys who are able to fish the BASSMASTER Series than the Elite Series, yet 21 guys is the best that they can do? Even the very worst Western BFL drew (more than) twice that number.
I respect your opinion regarding BASS/ESPN and understand that you are somewhat obligated to act as an ambassador for them, but BASS/ESPN (under Don Rucks) have shat on themselves and are no longer the premiere tournament organization of choice amongst that vast majority of tournament anglers; not on ANY level.
I wish you nothing but the very best of luck to you in the Elite Series and will be rooting for you at the 2007 Classic.
My wifes view
Without taking any sides.. the other day we were watching some Saturday coverage of fishing. Nice way to wake up. later that same day while we fishing... my wife came out and commented on the future of fishing. It was interesting because she compared it to another sport and how they promote issues and antics. Unfortunately for ESPN it was NOT the Nascar model they preach. She compared it to professional wrestling. I was rolling. She said the next thing they will have is masked folks up on the stage screaming No fish is safe on this lake now that the "Terminator" is here while they had bikini girls running around with sponser logos.
Probably not a fair view of the anglers out there on tour but it certainly seemed to ring true with me. I think the direction of the whole program missed their core audience. In this case the core audience I can speak too is a middle aged comfortable couple who fish together in small tournaments and occasional pro-ams. We will never be on tour. We like to buy rods, baits and reels. We own a boat now and are considering a new one. We probably have the finances to make that happen. We own a new truck to tow our boat with. And the boss of this couple thinks that the programing is morphing into professional wrestling? I would say that out ehre in the West at least, BASS has an image problem that will require a major fix.
I know at the heart of my frustration with BASS I withdrew from the AM side of the pro-ams. I was registered and had at least my deposits in for Clear Lake and Shasta. I had also cashed a check at the Delta. Obviously their business model at the time could not hold my business and I considered it a better investment to lose the 400 or 600 bucks than to continue to fish with them. That is going to take a bit to get over.
BTW catch the heck out of the fish my friend. i admire everything your doing and hope that it works out for you and meets your every hope.
I was rolling. She said the next thing they will have is masked folks up on the stage screaming No fish is safe on this lake now that the "Terminator" is here while they had bikini girls running around with sponser logos.Probably not a fair view of the anglers out there on tour but it certainly seemed to ring true with me. I think the direction of the whole program missed their core audience. In this case the core audience I can speak too is a middle aged comfortable couple who fish together in small tournaments and occasional pro-ams. We will never be on tour. We like to buy rods, baits and reels. We own a boat now and are considering a new one. We probably have the finances to make that happen. We own a new truck to tow our boat with. And the boss of this couple thinks that the programing is morphing into professional wrestling? I would say that out ehre in the West at least, BASS has an image problem that will require a major fix.
I know at the heart of my frustration with BASS I withdrew from the AM side of the pro-ams. I was registered and had at least my deposits in for Clear Lake and Shasta. I had also cashed a check at the Delta. Obviously their business model at the time could not hold my business and I considered it a better investment to lose the 400 or 600 bucks than to continue to fish with them. That is going to take a bit to get over.
BTW catch the heck out of the fish my friend. i admire everything your doing and hope that it works out for you and meets your every hope.
Re: Bassmaster ESPN different prospective than most Westerne
I cant sit this one out since I feel that I can add some in site.
I have fished both the FLW and Bass tours, I will have had 2 years on both trails after this season.
FLW is growing. They are the ones with the money and I feel they put the pressure on BASS to take things to the next level. Both tournaments are ran very professionally. The TV shows appeal to two different addiences. FLW's show is built to key more towards the non anglers or begining anglers, where each show is announced by keith lebowitz. He does sort of a play by play. BASS does try to appeal to the begginer but is a fisherman and he tends to use fishing phrases and terms that only fisherman would understand. If you walked up to somebody and said you were flipping brush they would have no idea what you were talking about. We have our own language! FLW doesnt really play into that as much. I agree for me BASS is more exciting for me to watch but lok at the show as somebody with little or no fishing expirence.
FLW puts on a show. After the cut days anglers are police escoreted to and from the weigh in which is held in the parking lot and the nearest Walmart in side a Gigantic Tent with large crowds drawn in by the fun Zone, which is where sponsors have games and givaways for children. Its like a mini, Fair. BASS has a weigh in trailer. Not saying that that is bad because it is very nice but it seems more like a mobile FBI post.
FLW has sold thier broadcasting rights to Europe and another Foriegn country. FLW is also aired on The armed forces network, which is aired over seas to all branches of military no matter what country they are in. BASS is on Espn2 which is veiwed by every sport junkie in America. So they both have a lot of viewers, I do think BASS wins locally but FLW is growing and growing quickly.
They both have a staff that can be curious and really care about the angler. In FLW you can talk to the highest level of operations, They are at the tournament and want you to talk to them. BASS good luck, I dont think even DON RUcks knows who his boss actually is.
All in all, I feel both are growing the sport. I would hate to see one go away because they are working against each other in competition, to see who can make their circuit better.
I have chosen FLW because of consistancy. BASS has chaged the way the points are done 2-3 times in the past 3 years. They have changed their name of the circuits 3 times in 3 years, They have changed the requirements of what is asked of the anglers 2 times in 3 years. Everything changes! Their is no consistancy and no one knows what is around the next corner. FLW has not made chages except added a circuit to relieve so of the stress on getting in to the FLW tour and to steal some to the top fisherman from BASS.
Originally the fight was BASS let you display your sponsor and FLW doesn't but they are roughly the same except FlW has you wear their shirt for the final days. Both circuits require you to run their wrapped boats after the cut, and uses us as their tools to expose not our sponsor but theirs. But hey for larger pay outs, and if you do make the cut when you get that check you can say hey for this much MONEY it was AS if i WAS SPONSORED BY THAT COMPANY FOR A DAY
Just my .02
Thanks for reading
RJ Bennett
I have fished both the FLW and Bass tours, I will have had 2 years on both trails after this season.
FLW is growing. They are the ones with the money and I feel they put the pressure on BASS to take things to the next level. Both tournaments are ran very professionally. The TV shows appeal to two different addiences. FLW's show is built to key more towards the non anglers or begining anglers, where each show is announced by keith lebowitz. He does sort of a play by play. BASS does try to appeal to the begginer but is a fisherman and he tends to use fishing phrases and terms that only fisherman would understand. If you walked up to somebody and said you were flipping brush they would have no idea what you were talking about. We have our own language! FLW doesnt really play into that as much. I agree for me BASS is more exciting for me to watch but lok at the show as somebody with little or no fishing expirence.
FLW puts on a show. After the cut days anglers are police escoreted to and from the weigh in which is held in the parking lot and the nearest Walmart in side a Gigantic Tent with large crowds drawn in by the fun Zone, which is where sponsors have games and givaways for children. Its like a mini, Fair. BASS has a weigh in trailer. Not saying that that is bad because it is very nice but it seems more like a mobile FBI post.
FLW has sold thier broadcasting rights to Europe and another Foriegn country. FLW is also aired on The armed forces network, which is aired over seas to all branches of military no matter what country they are in. BASS is on Espn2 which is veiwed by every sport junkie in America. So they both have a lot of viewers, I do think BASS wins locally but FLW is growing and growing quickly.
They both have a staff that can be curious and really care about the angler. In FLW you can talk to the highest level of operations, They are at the tournament and want you to talk to them. BASS good luck, I dont think even DON RUcks knows who his boss actually is.
All in all, I feel both are growing the sport. I would hate to see one go away because they are working against each other in competition, to see who can make their circuit better.
I have chosen FLW because of consistancy. BASS has chaged the way the points are done 2-3 times in the past 3 years. They have changed their name of the circuits 3 times in 3 years, They have changed the requirements of what is asked of the anglers 2 times in 3 years. Everything changes! Their is no consistancy and no one knows what is around the next corner. FLW has not made chages except added a circuit to relieve so of the stress on getting in to the FLW tour and to steal some to the top fisherman from BASS.
Originally the fight was BASS let you display your sponsor and FLW doesn't but they are roughly the same except FlW has you wear their shirt for the final days. Both circuits require you to run their wrapped boats after the cut, and uses us as their tools to expose not our sponsor but theirs. But hey for larger pay outs, and if you do make the cut when you get that check you can say hey for this much MONEY it was AS if i WAS SPONSORED BY THAT COMPANY FOR A DAY
Just my .02
Thanks for reading
RJ Bennett
Re: Bassmaster ESPN different prospective than most Westerne
RJ, you for one have experienced both sides of the table, BASS and FLW, and make some great observations. However I will say that for the most part in general I would agree that the terminology used on Bassmasters and FLW are a different language. I also know that every segment that is aired, BASS unveils a new term and explains what it means. So educating the viewers does happen, just not as quickly as we would like.
Last year I was not on tour, just qualified for the ELITES this past year. The opens had some pretty good crowds. I would say at least comparable to the everstart now stren series. I have fished them as well. But out here on the ELITE Tour the fan base has been outrageous. Lake Amistad. Rayburn, and Santee was absolutely nuts. They are coming out in droves. What is awesome is now, BASS requires us to bring our Trucks and boats to all of the Registration days. (Day before the tournament) Here there is a “Fan appreciationâ€
Last year I was not on tour, just qualified for the ELITES this past year. The opens had some pretty good crowds. I would say at least comparable to the everstart now stren series. I have fished them as well. But out here on the ELITE Tour the fan base has been outrageous. Lake Amistad. Rayburn, and Santee was absolutely nuts. They are coming out in droves. What is awesome is now, BASS requires us to bring our Trucks and boats to all of the Registration days. (Day before the tournament) Here there is a “Fan appreciationâ€
Likewise Vince....
I consider you a friend and hope you have great success in your efforts. You and I will have to agree to disagree about the B.A.S.S./ESPN program. By the way, I don't see FLW as the "right" way to do things either. Frankly, I was hoping the PAA would grow some brass balls and start a TRUE independent national circuit that would negotiate deals with the networks. These TV contracts would then pay the anglers far more than the paltry 136% payback offered to the Elite 100. But, that is my complaint with BASS/ESPN....not with you, personally. Good luck chasing your dream.
.....NaCl
ps I discovered the cause of that overheating problem and it is completely fixed! The boat runs awesome....this Puma handles even better than my last Cougar FTD and I didn't think that was possible! Great boat!
.....NaCl
ps I discovered the cause of that overheating problem and it is completely fixed! The boat runs awesome....this Puma handles even better than my last Cougar FTD and I didn't think that was possible! Great boat!
Re: Bassmaster ESPN different prospective than most Westerne
hey Vince,
Im not trying to bash anybody. I do agree with you in regards to the positives that BASS is doing. I know whats going on there, I still room with FRED, ISH, and John Murray at the FLW's. I agree with you BASS is trying to gain angler recognition and show off these anglers with their wraps. But you do have to admit that you are extremely lucky to have the deal that you have. Most of those anglers are paying a majority of the funds out of their personal pocket.
I do like what BASS has done they have picked the best lakes to go to at the right time of year. All of us FLW guys are jealous!!! We are trying to catch 5 for 9lbs and you guys are catching all you want trying to break 30. FLW does offer team deals to guys and some people say that they are not worth crap, but thats not true some of those deals are extremely well, Im not saying that they are better then if you could create your own deal with major corporations but I'd be happy with one. Yes BASS is the household name and I didnt mean that they dont draw large crowds yes they do, I was just saying FLW creates more of a fun Zone with lots of activities for kids before the weigh in.
NOT TRYING TO AFFEND ANYONE!!!
RJ BENNETT
Im not trying to bash anybody. I do agree with you in regards to the positives that BASS is doing. I know whats going on there, I still room with FRED, ISH, and John Murray at the FLW's. I agree with you BASS is trying to gain angler recognition and show off these anglers with their wraps. But you do have to admit that you are extremely lucky to have the deal that you have. Most of those anglers are paying a majority of the funds out of their personal pocket.
I do like what BASS has done they have picked the best lakes to go to at the right time of year. All of us FLW guys are jealous!!! We are trying to catch 5 for 9lbs and you guys are catching all you want trying to break 30. FLW does offer team deals to guys and some people say that they are not worth crap, but thats not true some of those deals are extremely well, Im not saying that they are better then if you could create your own deal with major corporations but I'd be happy with one. Yes BASS is the household name and I didnt mean that they dont draw large crowds yes they do, I was just saying FLW creates more of a fun Zone with lots of activities for kids before the weigh in.
NOT TRYING TO AFFEND ANYONE!!!
RJ BENNETT
I think it's great
That both of you have chimed in here to share with us. If we are going to make the west offer a "fishing career" for folks and not have to travel backeast, this is the information that is good to hear.
Thanks to both of you and good luck out there!
Thanks to both of you and good luck out there!
Dave Cole
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