Question about diesel MPG when not towing

[Guest]

All,

I have a question regarding diesel MPG for those of you on the forum. How many of you are driving a diesel truck 03-07? If so what make/model/year truck and kind of mpg are you getting when not towing your boat?

With gas over $3/gallon and basically the same price as diesel it seems as though I would be saving quite a bit of money going with a diesel truck rather than a V-8 for my next purchase. Currently I'm putting anywhere from 15,000 - 20,000 miles on my SUV per year at the current rate and getting 17 mpg with my Jeep Grand Cherokee when not towing (and that's a V-6 w/ 185,000 miles on the original engine).

Thanks.

[MrSkeeter]

I've got a '99 Ford F250 Powerstroke ... put in 140k miles since, no problems, except for an alternater that died at 130K (5 years, not bad). I average 14-15 MPG when towing and about 17-18MPG when not. I have a chip and some other mods (intake/exhaust) on the truck though.

[leatherneck77]

Vince,

Just call me and I will give mileage quotes. On the Duramax diesel, I know guys that are getting as much as 23 on the highway when they are not towing and 16-18 when they are. I actually have a used diesel sitting here on the lot, but if you want to go new I will sell you any diesel I have for $500 over the invoice. If you want to do it right away, 0% financing is available for up to 6 years of financing,

Jim
GBM

[Louie]

You have to remember that a diesel engine is about 4-5k more than a gas engine. So it takes a lot if driving to get that money back. I got my new Dodge for the pulling power not the fuel savings. The power is amazing in the new diesels. I paid $50.00 over invoice and anything around $200.00 over invoice is a good deal.

Louie

[MrSkeeter]

Louie,

Are the new Dodge Cummins THAT much quieter than the old ones?? I tried real hard to like the old ones, but I just could not stand the old chatter the Cummins back in year '99 & 2000 that's why I bought the Powerstroke. But they've been getting better. Just wondering.

Yeah, the engines are expensive options if you buy new. I bought mine a year old for over $10K off the new one. I think they were $40 new and I got mine just under $30k out the door. So for me, that's worth it I think.

[Andy Giannini]

I have a 06 Powerstroke, have no idea what the mileage is. I bought it just to tow. Not the boat, but my Bobcat, trailer, and maybe an extra tool.

It has tons of torque! I was towing with a 460 gas, and then a limping 7.3 Powerstroke that had real problems.

The thing (6.0) will bark the tires pulling away from a stop whith a 6,000 pound tractor, and a couple thousand or so trailer. The turbo spools up and you go. Riding around empty, it goes like a sports car. Bassboat, no problems at all.

For my purpose, the mileage wasn't really a factor. It was just towing, and pulling big loads. I never did figure it out, and I am so satisfied, doubt I ever will. I do know my gas motor burned a ton a fuel to do the same job.(97 F250 injected etc.) You had to rev it up to get anything out of it. Scream up the road and overheat the the tranny.

The new diesel trucks despite the fad, are far and above better for towing than anything gas powered I have ever driven. Check out the different models, ride with a friend who has one, and romp on it going up the hill to Clearlake.

.02 A.G.

[CORAL 96]

That's almost un-heard of with a diesel. My neighbor had an f-350 diesel that would wake the dead. Had to put a Magna-Flow on my 99 Suburban just to keep up!! Now, the Duramax Diesel's that I've heard come pretty close to quiet. Fuel mileage is also dependent on rear-end gears gas or diesel. Also, I remember a time when it seemed diesel fuel was as much or more than premium unleaded. I think it's less now, but has fluctuated just as gas has. Question to all diesel owners, on occasion do get that wiff of diesel smoke in the cab?

[SHAFT]

If you figure a gas engine v8 full size truck at 13 mpg and a diesel at 17 mpg and both regular and diesel at about 3.25 @ gal you would need to drive about 100k to break even for the extra expense of the diesel and at that point you would start saving on fuel , If its just fuel economy and not the power issue that's a lot of driving !

[Louie]

Yes the new Dodge diesels are much quieter than the old ones. From what I have heard the new Chevy is the quietest followed by Dodge then Ford. I looked at all three before I bought and the Dodge kept coming out on top for what we were looking for. The difference in pulling power from my Chevy gas engine to the Cummins diesel is amazing. When you hit the mountains the diesel just keeps on going where my gas engine I would have to run it hard just to keep my speed.

[Murph]

'04 Duramax,
Best, 26.4 mpg for 106 miles, slight tailwind, 63mph, AC off
23.7 mpg for 300 miles, AC off, 63mph
This is with the mudflaps removed, which seems to make a difference.

[Louie]

Yes the new Dodge diesels are much quieter than the old ones. From what I have heard the new Chevy is the quietest followed by Dodge then Ford. I looked at all three before I bought and the Dodge kept coming out on top for what we were looking for. The difference in pulling power from my Chevy gas engine to the Cummins diesel is amazing. When you hit the mountains the diesel just keeps on going where my gas engine I would have to run it hard just to keep my speed.

[Gunny]

Vince,
It would seem from the question you asked that savings on your fuel bill is what you are "MOST" concerned with. Thats a damn good thing to save money on thats for sure and for certain, but if you really cruntch the numbers a diesel purchased only for that reason may not be the way to go.

I have owned Diesels for years now, bought my first one in 1998 a Cummins Dodge, and a more miserable truck there has never been before. Replaced that piece of junk after only six weeks after it left me stranded in South Dakoto. I did replace it with a brand new Dodge Cummins and that was without a doubt the best truck I have ever owned. It was a 4X4 1 ton 3500 Dually and I put 450,000 miles on that bad boy before I had to do anything to it other than regular maintenance. Since that Dodge I have owned severeal more and today I still have 2 Dodge Cummins one a 2001 3500 Dually six speed 4X4, that will do anything anyone could ever ask of a pick-up. Mileage is a relative thing and on this truck empty i usually get around 17 or so better if I would only slow down a little. When I tow my Bass Boat that truck doesnt even know that the trailer is back there. Besides the two Dodge diesels I also own a Motor Home with a Duramax diesel. It is a 2006 Senneca with the Duramax 360 HP and the Allison tranny. So far this Duramax has been a huge disapointment for me. It is so under powered that it won't get out of its own way, and the mileage is very bad, let me say this again VERY BAD. But brand was not your question, savings was.

If you consider the costs involved in a diesel, it is going to take a long time to get to the money saving part of this question. The Dodge Cummins diesel is an almost $7,000.00 option over the higest priced gas option. The Duramax diesel is also pricey as hell at over $6,850.00 option over the higest priced Chevy gas rig. Add to that the other upgrades and we are talking some real money for a diesel. I am not a Ford guy but I believe that the Powerstroke is cost wise about the same and mileage and performance between the big three is probably very slight if we all were honest. I do believe that the Cummins is the best "BUILT and Designed" of the three and will last longer. But few will ever keep any of these long enough to realize any real benefit from this advantage if it is one. Diesel fuel "USED" to be the cheaper of the fuels, you could always count on diesel being a dime or so cheaper than regular. Will those days are gone and diesel is right around the same cost as premium fuel. The mileage on diesels is some what better when towing, no doubt about it. But clams are just that claims. I average on my diesel when towing right around 15 1/2 or so empty is 17. Man that is great mileage as far as I am concerned for a 1 ton Dually that weighs 7,700 lbs setting at the curb with a full tank of fuel. I drove Chevy Duallys for years always with 454 gas engines and if I could get 10 mpg I was thrilled.

If you do buy a diesel I think you will be happy you did. The noise factor is a none factor as far as I can tell, after years of driving diesels I like the noise. The will pull almost anything you can imagine and pull it well. But the cost of that engine is going to take a hell of a long time to pay for even "IF" you where to 50% better mileage over a gas rig. And i doubt if you will be able to do much better than you are know. As far as brand of truck, even though you didn't ask that question. Chevy, Dodge and Ford all build good trucks. I favor the Dodge becuase they have been good to me on the most part. I have never owned a Ford Powerstroke but would not worry one little bit if I did. The Chevy on the other hand will let me say the Duramax has let me down big time, I personally would not own another Duramax if they gave it to me, but thats just me.

Good Luck

Gunny

[not4un]

Dodge diesels will get you the best fuel mileage when not towing. Dodges get about 21 mpg when not towing. I have always been a chevy man and I like the duramax's but they have had problems. Dodge has the best diesel hands down. The motor is proven and very easy to get parts for if you happen to break down in the middle of nowhere. My uncle had nothing but problems with his ford powerstroke and ford ended up having to buy it back took 3 years to get them to do that.

[Rex]

I have owned a 2001 Cummins with 6 speed since Oct 2000. I haven't had a lick of trouble with this truck in 115,000 miles. I get approximately 20-22 mpg not towing (Hypertech chip and 4" exhaust). I have a 2005 Powerstroke 6.0 work truck that WILL NOT bark the tires, even if you slam on the ebrake at 60. It has ok power, but is very slow to spool up leaving stop signs (credit this to an auto trans?) The Ford does seem to get decent fuel mileage though. One thing I found out after visiting Redding Fuel Injection for a fuel pressure check was that (according to them) the turbos are a weak link in the Powerstroke. I have no idea if this is the case, but they had a pile of grenaded turbos to show me. My personal preference after driving both goes to the Dodge. Seat of the pants performance doesn't lie! Good luck whatever you decide.

[Guest]

Gunny,

The way that I see it I have 185,000 miles on my Jeep Grand Cherokee and I'm most likely going to put 200,000 miles on the next truck/suv that I buy so long as it holds up as well. From a cost perspective I already have a certain amount of money that I'm going to pay up to so weither I spent the extra $5,000 on the diesel engine, internal accessories or some spinners (joking) it's not going to affect my purchasing decision.

The hard part that I have swallowing is going from 17mpg when not towing down to 12-14 and a monthly payment. If I can increase my fuel economy such that I'm getting an extra 5-6 mpg I'm justifying the monthly car payment to myself. Then if I add in the fact that I'd be getting 17-18 mpg towing my Ranger R72 vs 10-12 mpg with the Jeep my trip to the lake is also saving me money as well. Not to mention the added fuel economy when I'm towing up any sort of grade pulling the boat as well (i.e. going through the silverado trail through napa to Clear Lake).

Also in the back of my mind I'd have the option of converting the car to biodiesel, a Plant Drive system or a combo kit allowing to drive on either regular diesel and biodiesel.

The hard part to decide right now is of the 2005-2007 model trucks from Ford, Chevy/GMC or Dodge which engine is the best for a commute + tow vehicle from an engine/fuel effeciency perspective. Then which truck is going to hold up the best assuming I wish to get 200,000 miles or more out of the truck in the long run. Also what sort of upgrades are going to help achieve this goal (i.e. hypertech chip, flowmaster exhaust, etc).

Thanks again for the info everyone and keep the feedback coming.

[Guest]

Louie,

What year Dodge and model are you driving? I've been learning more towards the Cummins engine and the 2500 4x4 however the 2006 suspension made me feel like I was driving a bobble head in the 4x4 vs the 4x2. Same thing with the 1500 and Durango as well with the 4x4 model. It was enough for me to think that if I had to make a quick adjustment at high speeds the possibility of flipping the truck/SUV was pretty great.

[Guest]

Thanks Jim. I'll talk to you more at the club meeting this week.

[Louie]

My truck is a 2006 Dodge quad cab 2500 4X4 with the 4spd auto and the diesel. I have a friend with a new chevy and my cousin has a Ford and the Chevy has the best ride with Dodge and Ford about the same. As far as mileage the new Cummins does not get as good as the old ones. I assume this is because they added more power, 325Hp and 610 torque. It takes over 10,000 miles to begin to brake it in and then the mileage will increase according to the book. I have 7,000 miles on my truck now and I average a little over 16 mpg city and highway. I really like the truck and the Cummins is fun to drive.

[Gunny]

Vince,

Sounds to me as if you have done some of your homework and are on the right track. As I said in my first post "I think if you do buy a diesel you will be glad you did" I still feel that way.

So here is a little more food for thought. While I personally prefer the Dodge by a country mile i will try and be objective. The big three diesels all have some plus's and for certain some negatives, in the end you will pay your money and take your best guess and with that a chance. But hell it supposed to be that way. Of the three the Ford "Powerstroke" and the Chevy "Duramax" are both listed as "Light Duty Diesels" while the Dodge "Cummins" is in fact listed as a true "Medium Duty Diesel" Now those two terms don't mean a hole hell of a lot other than time to overhaul. There is a internet group of Dodge owners with well in excise of 5,000 members called the "TDR" for Turbo Diesel Registry. This group list at one time 3 years ago 29 Dodge's with over a million miles that had not been rebuilt. At the same time they listed over 40 Dodges with milage over the 7 million mile mark that had been rebuilt some number of times. While I can not imagine any truck made by any Company on the planet going 7 million miles it is an interesting thought now isn't it? I personally have no way of knowing is that number is correct and as I said earlier clams are clams.

While some on here have said that there where problems with some of these trucks I can only speak to two of them Chevy and Dodge with personal knowledge. Ford has a long tradition of building pick-ups and they out sell both Chevy and Dodge by a lot, that has to say something about Ford. I am simply not a Ford guy but I am convinced they build a good product. Chevy also builds pretty good trucks, for many years it was my first choice. I also think that the Duramax is probably OK in that "Light Duty Role" But in the end it is not a Cummins and I don't think it will work as long or as hard as the Cummins will.

No body can really make a choice for you, and I am damn certain you want to make your own any ways. If I was going to buy a new Diesel truck today i know for certain it would be a Dodge and a Cummins no doubt about it for me. But maybe the smart way would to see which one of the three you could make the best deal on and base your choice on that. In the end with your intended target of 200,000 miles or so any of the three would work for you.

You mention converting or using BIO-Disel, there really isn't any converting to be done at least not to the truck. You can run veggie oil right now as is. However the viscosity of veggie oil is the problem, it is too thick for the pumps and such. But all the veggie oil needs is to be heated to thin it out. There is a system out there where you add a seperate tank for the veggie oil, heat this tank with water from the trucks cooling system. This thinning of the veggie oil is all that is needed to make it usable. But you do need to "START" the truck from regular diesel and to switch from veggie to regular diesel about 3 or 4 min before you shut the truck down.

As to the chips you mention. This is so easy as to be funny. Both of my Dodges are chipped and run not 4" exhaust but 5". There are severeal of these chips available Edge EZ is a great one as is Van Aieken and BD. These simple are fueling chips and install in min in line usually with the Diesel Injector Pump. They are plug and go. HP ratings are anywhere from 50 or 60 HP all the way up to 300 or so, that is in addition to the HP rating the truck came with.

Good Luck and let us all know which way you do end up going.

Gunny

[MN]

I have an 06 f-250 with the 6.0 turbo power stroke.I get about 17.3 not towing but even towing it's about the same.

[CORAL 96]

While some may think it doesn't feel powerful enough, remember what backs it. The Allison transmission!! I don't think Ford or Dodge can touch that one!!!

[eagle123777]

vince, i dont have a clue as to the mpg of my 05 duramax and dont really care as traded by gas hog for the power to pull the boat as well as my six pac truck camper....just pulled it over the mountains to lake almanor and at points over 5700 ft the duramax didnt even breath hard......jack