Should off-limits be reinstated? PLEASE VOTE! Important.

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

*NM*

[Mike]

I still say the weekend fisherman should have his own place to compete without having to do it against full time "Professional fishermen". And it's not Future pro. A futuer Pro is just that. Someone starting out. I'm talking about guys like me, and there are alot, who fish tournaments for recreation. Not for a steady income. There should be a Semi-Pro format for these guys (and gals) to compete against poeple of their caliber. Bla, Bla, Bla,

[Calistar]

The score is still 58 to 22*NM*

Jim, thats good and all...but that vote doesn't include the 97% of registered users that decided not to vote. In my opinion, just because someone doesn't have time to prefish, it shouldn't penalize someone who does.

[Scott Shambre]

NO org. will take it on because we don't have to. It is not a type of circuit that will be a draw like the FPT and Vince's 100+ boats every event. Any circuit that trys this type of deal WILL see no more than the usual 25-50 boat field MAXIMUM and for that low boat count, it is not even worth creating a rule to eliminate anglers that would otherwise frequent another circuit within an individual org.

Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE
www.folsombassleague.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.mercury.com
C&C Marine Citrus Heights
www.okumafishing.com
www.powellco.com (Powell Rods)
www.basscatcher.com (Markey Baits)
www.roboworm.com
Susie's Country Oaks Cafe

[Scott Shambre]

There will be no ORG that is going to jump out there and do this. There is no up side and the down side is trying to police something that is unpoliceable, just one of the reasons for the rule going away to begin with.

Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE
www.folsombassleague.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.mercury.com
C&C Marine Citrus Heights
www.okumafishing.com
www.powellco.com (Powell Rods)
www.basscatcher.com (Markey Baits)
www.roboworm.com
Susie's Country Oaks Cafe

[Scott Shambre]

On Shasta in the Fall and give Dobyns, Rush or Bill Townsend a one month off limits period and they will still beat you based on their EXPERIENCE!!!!!

Same can be said for Barrack or Sapp on the Delta, it doesn't matter with guys of that caliber. Now if you had an all-mediocre league organization that didn't allow these guys to fish, then you'ld be in business, but that won't happen.

Brian, I'll give you the same deal on Diamond Valley, Casitas or Castaic and make Kyle Grover or Justin Kerr suffer thru a 30-day off limits period just so they can come right back and smoke you based on nothing more than their EXPERIENCE on those bodies of water.


Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE
www.folsombassleague.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.mercury.com
C&C Marine Citrus Heights
www.okumafishing.com
www.powellco.com (Powell Rods)
www.basscatcher.com (Markey Baits)
www.roboworm.com
Susie's Country Oaks Cafe

[Scott Shambre]

Between my employer, the family and my obligation to the FBL and its' sponsors, my prefish time is dramaticly reduced to MAYBE 2 days per event and most tournaments this year has been cut down to a 1/2 day. All that and I still feel I can go out and catch'em with those guys because it is the fish biting, not Sapp, Barrack, Dobyns or anyone else for that matter.


Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE
www.folsombassleague.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.mercury.com
C&C Marine Citrus Heights
www.okumafishing.com
www.powellco.com (Powell Rods)
www.basscatcher.com (Markey Baits)
www.roboworm.com
Susie's Country Oaks Cafe

[Scott Shambre]

because a few of them guide during the week and how can you make them decide between supporting an organization or putting food on their table?


Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE
www.folsombassleague.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.mercury.com
C&C Marine Citrus Heights
www.okumafishing.com
www.powellco.com (Powell Rods)
www.basscatcher.com (Markey Baits)
www.roboworm.com
Susie's Country Oaks Cafe

[Scott Shambre]

"An off limits, does not level the playing field really, it tilts the advantage to the local, long time angler who has more experience. "

Enough said

[Scott Shambre]

The org.'s are there to service the customer and unfortunately the ears are and will remain closed on this one. There is not going to be one single org. that is going to step and reinstate this rule because we don't have to. This topic came up about 2 months ago and I started to do a premptive look into it and found that nobody up here is really interested in it. Yeah the vote totals on this forum are currently 58 to 23, but that is not indicative of the overall opinion of the anglers that fish the FBL and that is what we TD's look at is what OUR anglers are saying that support our org. If I had an overwelming number of guys coming up to me and telling me that they think this would be a good idea, then I would put it out to my entire field and put it to a vote. I have done this a couple of times already this year when it there were issues that I felt the anglers should have a voice in. i think that this is pretty much indicative of how most of us TD's handle this type of issue and for now, don't look for the off-limit rule to make a great comeback, it is as dead as Elvis.

Lastly, I know what I know about these guys finishing positions based on the 20 minutes of research it took me so I would have some facts to put out there.

Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE
www.folsombassleague.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.mercury.com
C&C Marine Citrus Heights
www.okumafishing.com
www.powellco.com (Powell Rods)
www.basscatcher.com (Markey Baits)
www.roboworm.com
Susie's Country Oaks Cafe

[Brian Linehan]

No one will listen huh? That's why you keep posting like a madman every 2 minutes. I originally started this thread a a So. Cal topic and threw it on here because I was curious to see what the feedback would be in the North. Like I have repeatedly stated, it's probably a different issue up there and that's why I'm concentrating on the South. You have massive waterways up there. We have 1500 acre ponds. You have guys that actually live on the lakes. We all dream about that. That being said, the numbers don't lie. It's probably a pretty strong assumption that most of the people voting are tournament fishermen or else why would they be voting. Don't fool yourself thinking that no one is paying attention. Just wait and see. Open discusssion is healthy and if it's such a waste of time, don't bother reading. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but my priority is in the South where I live. I got the ball rolling and now it will be up to you Northern guys who believe in the off-limits to pursue it.

[Brian]

I personally do not see what the big deal is either way. I can’t count the times I’ve fished two days in a row and had two totally different bites. It happened to us in the FBL T.O.C. Our fist day bite totally went away the second day and we had to find a new pattern in a new area to stay near the top. I’ve have been so disgusted with pre fish patterns that didn’t hold up on tournament day, that I have refused to pre fish the following tournament so I didn’t get thrown of course the first half of the tournament following a pre fish pattern that went bye bye. Don’t get me wrong there have been some times that pre fishing helped too, but I think any advantages someone has on a body of water has more to do with the overall amount of time they have spent on a particular body of water over a long period of time. Not how much they fished it the week before the tournament.
Brian

[Scott Shambre]

*NM*

[Mike]

You sure are smart! "I know this", I know that", Maybe if you listen a little more you too could draw more than 40 boats!

That list of sponsors sure got alot smaller Representing are ya?

[Scott Shambre]

Mike I do listen to my anglers, who do you think I polled to get a majority of the ideas for the FBL. The very anglers that have supported us all year.

As for our draw, we drew more than 40 teams four times this past year and in the last 6 years there has not been a tournament circuit that has been Folsom-exclusive that has AVERAGED 40 boats/event like we did in our first year. The other org's couldn't amass 40 boats in their first 3 tournaments COMBINED!!! We did that on the strength that we rely on our anglers for ideas and opinions. The FBL is an organization that is run by the anglers that support it, how many other org's can make that claim?Every event this season I asked our field during the awards if there we ANY questions, comments or concerns. We had a few issues to deal with and we dealt with them as best we could with our entire organization of anglers best interest at heart.

When asked if I do know a little about the topic of running a class organization, Mike I think the reputation of the FBL as well as my own speaks volumes for my knowledge and dedication to the sport and anglers that support my org.

Like Cooch told you, you are a more than qualified angler to go out and compete with the very anglers you think you have no chance against. A two-time angler of the year, come on Mike who are you kidding? If someone put together a deal that fit your specs, how many would claim that you need to fish against your own skill level?Especially at a place like the Delta where with your background you could probably do seminars.

I'm thru with this thread, I have stated my OPINION on the topic of off limit periods and will leave it at that. Good night to all.

Scott Shambre
FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE
www.folsombassleague.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.mercury.com
C&C Marine Citrus Heights
www.okumafishing.com
www.powellco.com (Powell Rods)
www.basscatcher.com (Markey Baits)
www.roboworm.com
Susie's Country Oaks Cafe

[Mike]

By the way,.......Thats 5 time AOY

[Lance]

Ok Scott step away from the coffee machine

[Fishin' Dave]

Well, I have posted a well written rule (in my oppinion) and no one has commented. It has become the people vs FBL.

Screw all this talk, it is time for action. We can complain, call names and such. Proof is there is customers waiting to spend their $$ on a product. Someone needs to step up NOW and offer this to customers. Just offer the option, it could be a hit. Guys will fish it or they won't, but I guarntee if it doesn't exist, no one will fish it. I'm not going to fish tournaments until I see this rule, how about you? If you are serious, wait it out too. If you aren't willing to force the issue, then shut up and fish. Now, get out there and make it happen!

[Kevin]

Scott, I hate to get in a pissing contest with a tournament director for a glorified bass club, but you sure are one angry, negative person. Whoever runs your little bass club might want to reconsider who they let speak on behalf of their orginization. I don't know you, have never heard of you, and probably never will but for your own good, you really need to quit making yourself look like a jackass in front of your paying customers.
I respect your opinion completely. I give you credit for atleast voicing what you believe in. But there comes a point where it's just too much and you passed that up a long time ago. It's obvious that you're proud of your Folsom Bass League and that's cool. You know what works for your orginization and you should probably keep it that way. But for crying out loud, don't try and crap on others because they don't share the same views as you.
Besides, I imagine this post was aimed at statewide tournament orginizations such as Won Bass, A.B.A., 100%, National Bass, Anglers Choice, etc..
The post wasn't construed to offend you but rather to remind you that there are others aside from yourself who have a voice and an opinion.

[Colebass]

the numbers you give are where most org are at in turnout anyway. There are so many team events and orgs, that it has diluted the fields. You rarely see 100 plus boat team events anymore. Except for speacialty events like Snag Proof, Yamamoto and others like it.

Scott, the rules ARE policeable! Put them in writing and hold to them! If you can prove it, do so! If you can't drop it! It's not that hard. And yes, I have run tournaments and heard folks liked it. Only one complaint that I recieved is that I didn't get the results posted fast enough, say you haven't heard that one! Rules are to be used as a guide to keep the majority in line, cheaters will and have cheated but it catches up to them!

[Colebass]

It takes time on the water, but the mental approach is WAY more important!

I had my worst year in tournaments this past year! Did I prefish, yes! I even fished a few days with Dobyns! Did it help, hell know...........why?

because mentally I was thinking about work and all these other distractions and it hurt my decision making on the water. I would have been better off stay at work, then just showing up for the events.

I have always said it will be great to win one of these Pro-Ams, but it will be greater when Dobyns, KB, Strader, Leroy B, Dewayne, Jimmy, Cooch, Barrack, Robert Lee, Skeet, Aaron, Byron, John Murray and many others are there, because if they are not, who did you beat?

[Marty]

Thanks for remembering me Bass Wrangler. Have a good day

[Dewayne]

If tournament bass fishing is truely a sport than those that work harder should have an advantage. Years ago I had the time to fish a lot more. I would fish over 120 days a year. Anymore I am lucky to fish 50 days a year. I am far from a full time fisherman so do not assume I am trying to protect my precious pre fish time. Heck, for the 2 WONs I fished this year I only really pre-fished the prior weekend. The playing field is level. The harder you work the better your chances to do well. This concept is universal in every sport from NASCAR to golf. It is the way it should be!

I used to shoot archery. Same thing happened there. Everyone wanted to be a winner and it ruined the sport. We had Pro Class, A class, B class, C class, Youth, Seniors, and each before mentioned by Sex. Each of the previously mentioned were also duplicated for each type of equipment one could shoot. Sights, sights and a release, barebow, long stabilizer, short stabilizer, no stabilizer......

The awards took hours and almost everyone earned an award. Of course if someone did not get an award a new class was needed obviously. Maybe "teen girl with a cheap bow wearing glasses" class. It was rediculous.


Maybe I can get rich by starting a lazy mans circuit. Lets see we can prevent anyone from having an advantage and make it a truely level playing field where anyone can win.


No-prefishing.

Max Boat speed 35 MPH. We will insure this by pulling 1/2 the spark plug wires off everyones motors.

All events 4 hours for the old tired guys.

Each angler will be handycapped 1/10th of a pound for each day the fished over the past year.

No leaving the marina if the wind blows. We do not want a 20' boat to have an advantage over a 18' boat.

Only two 6' rods and 10 baits allowed. Only baits allowed provided by circuit sponsors. Don't want to handycap those that cannot afford Lucky Crafts.

Max line is 10# test and only mono allowed.

No nets, someones could be bigger.

50% payback and I provide the baits. Hey I got to make a buck for my incredible idea!

Everyone will be home by noon because all award money will be determined before the weight in by a drawing so no team will have an advantage. Eliminating all fishing skill will truely provide the level playing field that many desire.

[Guy Williams]

Go off limit's!

[Farres]

So, Scott, may I ask what changed your mind so firmly in the last 6 weeks because last we talked at C&C you said you were thinking about an off limits for the FBL. You mention something along the lines of asking your participants--what did they say and how did you do that. Not busting balls, just asking.

I can't say either way what an off limits would do for participation or for the "average Joe." What I can say is what not having an off limits does to me, and I feel like it leaves me at a competitive disadvantage. I know this going into a circuit, so I'm not complaining. I'm just telling you the way it is for me.

This year my partner and I fished AC Pro Teams. He and I are both working stiffs, so prefishing is, for the most, not possible. I can think of at least two tourneys this year where we were in big trouble.

As an example, snow and a week of freezing temps at Clear Lake is nothing we had ever had to deal with before. I know of several teams that were there for 3-4 days immediately prior to the tourney, and all found some fish after spending so much time on the water. As for me and my partner, no prefish, and very few fish on game day. We got our *** kicked, yet I guarantee you had we prefished for 3 days prior we would have greatly improved in the standings. Also, as I remember, a guide won the WON bass Clear Lake on Saturday and the AC event on Sunday. I wonder if he prefished....

Similar things happened at Berryessa over the season, and we simply couldn't get out to prefish. Again, not bitching, just telling you the way things were. We paid our money and played the game.

To me, the trend of teams spending 3-4 days immediately prior to the tourney out prefishing has become a major deterrent. And, it's going to lead me to stop fishing the more expensive circuits such as AC. Instead, I'll turn to less expensive circuits like the FBL because I fell like I can always compete on Folsom.

That's my real life, fresh off the press, example of what unlimited prefishing has done for'to me. Take it or leave it, but those are the facts.

[one fish wonder]

Bring back the off limits for the team tournaments. Start a new tour and call it guys that do not have to work. This tour you can pre fish as much as you like and even have events on the weekdays.

[FIVEBAGS]

I would love to see this happen, I think that experience will help, but not being able to disect the lake for a week before the event is going to make the playing field more level ( not totally level ). The statement that the same guys are still going to win because of their years of expeirience is not totally true, and I think if someone did implement this, the results will show expierience is great, but not being able to dial them in for a week will somewhat even things out.