AGFC is hedging its bets with bringing trophy-class bass

[WB Staff]

AGFC releases the titans

The Arkansas Game and Fish Commission is hedging its bets with bringing trophy-class bass fishing back to Lake Monticello with today’s release of roughly 9,000 special fish. These fish are the first segment of a stocking totaling 22,000 Florida largemouth bass from Red Hills Fishery in Georgia that are the offspring of fish that have all the genetic makings of trophy-class bass.

The fingerlings, dubbed TITAN MAXX™ bass by the Red Hills facility, were spawned from bass that were genetically tested and have specific genetic markers of fish that exhibit trophy-class growth potential.
“The AGFC has been stocking Florida bass for decades, which have had the potential to become trophies, but now we’re able to select the Floridas that have the most potential from that pool,” Jeremy Risley, AGFC Black Bass Program coordinator, said. “It’s sort of like we’re switching from stocking college basketball players who are already great athletes to only stocking the elite NBA players of the fish world.” According to Risley, Lake Monticello’s renovation offered the perfect opportunity to infuse the system with these “thoroughbred” bass.

Read it All: https://mhobserver.com/agfc-releases-th ... onticello/

[coyote268]

You will never see anything like that happen in California as all fish and wildlife want to do is bring in more money, not spend any

[Kwin]

[quote=coyote268 post_id=688350 time=1715090935 user_id=31985]
You will never see anything like that happen in California as all fish and wildlife want to do is bring in more money, not spend any
[/quote]

Wouldn't work here in CA because anglers choose to C&R all their bass stunting their growth. So far this year at DVL/Perris/Skinner anglers have reported catching 1350 legal sized LMB and kept 11. The 0.81% harvest rate isn't going to help them grow. Genetics doesn't matter if there isn't enough food to eat. We have the genetics to grow big fish but the continued absence of angler participation in managing the fisheries through harvest is the biggest reason why trophy bass are few and far between. All fisheries are managed through harvest. Bag limits, size limits, quotas, seasons or limited entry all are predicated upon anglers harvesting fish. This feel-good stocking program AGFC is conducting is a red herring 100%.

The graphs below are von Bertalanffy growth curves generated from length/age data collected throughout CA 2015-2019. Longevity is good but growth is horrible.....the graphs don't lie...

[attachment=0]QKAE5797.JPG[/attachment][attachment=1]OPTZ0746.JPG[/attachment]

[Isaac O]

KWIN,

Thanks for responding, but I don't believe naming a fallacy and posting charts validates your point.

The lack of involvement makes me believe you sit behind a desk and post statistics that can easily be swayed.

Isaac

[Kwin]

It's actually amusing to me that AGFC is hyping this when their own studies conclude that a genetically based stocking program will not effectively increase the trophy potential of a population.

[attachment=0]Capture.JPG[/attachment]

[coyote268]

Not to dispute your charts but here is the Clear Lake story. Two years ago during almost hundred degree weather and very warm water the fish mortality rate was astronomical. I mean thousands of fish perished. This along with almost all tournament fish released in the Lakeport area I question if this area food supply can support all these fish. Also before this happened it was common to see a lot of ten pound fish weighed in, unfortunately, you don't see this now. Living here and fishing it a lot (not tournament fishing) I believe the population is in a decline.

[Rick Pierce]

I’ve known Jeremy Risely decades, his father was in the Twin Lakes Bass Club with us. He has been promoted to the bass biologist over Arkansas. He’s an angler and he’s very committed to improving bass fishing in many ways. From habitat to little things like Florida bass in Monticello. They drained Monticello and restored the entire lake. It was once a big fish destination and it will be nice to see it return.

Rick

[WRB]

Study the Florida Largemouth history in California and it’s obvious that genetics are more important than prey to predator ratio.
Same lakes with the same ecosystems and prey sources with Northern strain LMB didn’t produce a single bass over 14 lbs, the State record for decades.
Without changing anything in SoCal lakes prey source pure Florida LMB 1st introduced in San Diego city lakes and every one of those lakes produced bass over 16 lbs up to 25 lbs. Same prey and fish population ratio.
50 years later without planting genetically pure Florida strain LMB the genetics have intragated with NLMB depleting the FLMB genetics to point it’s a rare bass that exceeds 16 lbs today.
California needs fresh strain of FLMB like AGFC is doing.
Tom

[Whoopbass]

Study the Florida Largemouth history in California and it’s obvious that genetics are more important than prey to predator ratio.
Same lakes with the same ecosystems and prey sources with Northern strain LMB didn’t produce a single bass over 14 lbs, the State record for decades.
Without changing anything in SoCal lakes prey source pure Florida LMB 1st introduced in San Diego city lakes and every one of those lakes produced bass over 16 lbs up to 25 lbs. Same prey and fish population ratio.
50 years later without planting genetically pure Florida strain LMB the genetics have intragated with NLMB depleting the FLMB genetics to point it’s a rare bass that exceeds 16 lbs today.
California needs fresh strain of FLMB like AGFC is doing.
Tom

This is just fact. Simple as 2+2. No study or studies need to be done. Same common sense can be used with the salmon numbers. Instead of flooding fields to export crops they could dump some of that water down the rivers and the populations would rebound.
All this state cares about is taking our money and funneling it into their pockets or their rich donors pockets.

[jiggin4bass]

Whoopbass For the rich who live and run Ca. Its only business.

[Kwin]

[quote=WRB post_id=688539 time=1715836417 user_id=35944]
Study the Florida Largemouth history in California and it’s obvious that genetics are more important than prey to predator ratio.
Same lakes with the same ecosystems and prey sources with Northern strain LMB didn’t produce a single bass over 14 lbs, the State record for decades.
Without changing anything in SoCal lakes prey source pure Florida LMB 1st introduced in San Diego city lakes and every one of those lakes produced bass over 16 lbs up to 25 lbs. Same prey and fish population ratio.
50 years later without planting genetically pure Florida strain LMB the genetics have intragated with NLMB depleting the FLMB genetics to point it’s a rare bass that exceeds 16 lbs today.
California needs fresh strain of FLMB like AGFC is doing.
Tom
[/quote]

Not really....
See those data points in excess of 20 years on the Riverside/San Bernardino County graph? Four of the five are from Diamond Valley Lake which was stocked with fish from Hodges. Hodges FLMB are the second most pure FLMB in the State (96%) only behind Miramar (@ 100%). There is no dilution of FLMB genetics at DVL yet the growth is just as bad as all the other lakes in SoCal. There are no NLMB in which to intergrade and dilute the FLMB genetics.

I've reviewed studies by Larry Bottroff conducted 1970-1985 where anglers reported 20-40% of the harvestable bass caught were harvested annually. Growth was great and trophy bass were caught on a regular basis. The genetics then were likely similar or identical to the genetics that exist in DVL today, yet the growth rates and growth potential are strikingly different. Studies I have done at DVL over the last 15 years have shown anglers harvest is <1%-4% of the harvestable fish caught annually. The genetics in DVL are supposedly superior to produce trophy fish, yet the growth remains poor. Twenty plus years to not even crack 600 mm isn't doing it. In the time between then and now, anglers have chosen to voluntarily release most of the fish that were historically kept back when trophy fish were being produced. Genetics doesn't matter if the management practices (angler harvest) are ignored through excessive release of fish and the population remains too high to produce trophy fish, which is where we are at the moment at DVL.

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey Tom. I can report that you were 100% on point with your comment. I am witnessing a bunch of Florida strain making a comeback here at Casitas and it is a delight to watch and see. I didn't catch a fish over 5 pounds in all of last year here. Now not as tough as it was. As nothing was added but water you are right after our present situation...genetics. The fish are superior to the problem. In Japan they are going to be behemoths caught and it isn't because they kill all "invasive" species but FOOD for the predators....

[WRB]

Study the Florida Largemouth history in California and it’s obvious that genetics are more important than prey to predator ratio.
Same lakes with the same ecosystems and prey sources with Northern strain LMB didn’t produce a single bass over 14 lbs, the State record for decades.
Without changing anything in SoCal lakes prey source pure Florida LMB 1st introduced in San Diego city lakes and every one of those lakes produced bass over 16 lbs up to 25 lbs. Same prey and fish population ratio.
50 years later without planting genetically pure Florida strain LMB the genetics have intragated with NLMB depleting the FLMB genetics to point it’s a rare bass that exceeds 16 lbs today.
California needs fresh strain of FLMB like AGFC is doing.
Tom

Not really....
See those data points in excess of 20 years on the Riverside/San Bernardino County graph? Four of the five are from Diamond Valley Lake which was stocked with fish from Hodges. Hodges FLMB are the second most pure FLMB in the State (96%) only behind Miramar (@ 100%). There is no dilution of FLMB genetics at DVL yet the growth is just as bad as all the other lakes in SoCal. There are no NLMB in which to intergrade and dilute the FLMB genetics.

I've reviewed studies by Larry Bottroff conducted 1970-1985 where anglers reported 20-40% of the harvestable bass caught were harvested annually. Growth was great and trophy bass were caught on a regular basis. The genetics then were likely similar or identical to the genetics that exist in DVL today, yet the growth rates and growth potential are strikingly different. Studies I have done at DVL over the last 15 years have shown anglers harvest is <1%-4% of the harvestable fish caught annually. The genetics in DVL are supposedly superior to produce trophy fish, yet the growth remains poor. Twenty plus years to not even crack 600 mm isn't doing it. In the time between then and now, anglers have chosen to voluntarily release most of the fish that were historically kept back when trophy fish were being produced. Genetics doesn't matter if the management practices (angler harvest) are ignored through excessive release of fish and the population remains too high to produce trophy fish, which is where we are at the moment at DVL.

DVL like Castiac the LMB must compete with big Stripers for prey.
Larry Bottroff the biologist working for Orville Ball who introduced FLMB with the goal of increasing catch rate weights per man hour fished determined to FLMB a failure.
The FLMB proved to be more difficult to catch the Northern strain LMB.
The reason Miramar had pure FLMB because the rearing ponds the fingerlings were raised before being transplanted to Upper Otay were flooded when the dame was finished.
Hodges was drained for dam retrofit, all fish were killed before the FLMB were introduced.
Hodges produced a 20.4 lb FLMB without any Rainbow trout for prey, only Threadfin Shad, Crappie and Bluegill for a fish prey source.
Having fished the San Diego lakes and talking to Larry several times when he measured my bass and took scales to study told me they never expected the FLMB to grow to giant size or be so difficult to catch on lures.
I am guilty of releasing hundreds of big bass only keeping fish that would not survive.
During lake Castiac boom anglers came from all over the country to catch a million dollar bass and kept the their person best DD fish caught harvesting hundreds of big bass. Lake Casitas was the opposite few DD bass were harvested by anglers or guides yet the lake produced giants for decades.
My 1st giant bass over 15 lbs was 18.6 lbs caught at Casitas in 1981 on a jig, PB at Castiac was 19.3 lbs also a jig fish in 1993. The Castiac forebay accident dumping big Stripers into the main lake killed the big bass population. Yes you need a balanced bass to prey source but without FLMB genetics no giants will exist.
Tom


Tom