The price of cheating in tourneys...

[fishinman]

simply put , monies for particular event redistributed accordingly by attaching cheaters wages or by other legal means if self employed and banned from tournaments for life. no need to stop them from fishing. Individuals as such probably cheat in other facets of life. So to stop them you'd have to hang'em. I believe that is really not feasible. Not being able to compete for the rest of their lives would be a reasonable punishment.

[birdman920]

I know this thread is ancient ! but I think now that Steve Sapp is long since departed ! maybe someone would want to shed some light on the accusations of cheating ! I have heard a million stories over the years ! just don’t know if they were ever true ! , 23 boats & 100’s of thousands he won over the years ! his name & story need to be told !

[RMANZO]

Not sure if Sapp was ever really caught red handed. His friend/partner “Varnie” was caught in an Anglers Choice pro/am catching fish from a barrel under a dock. They gave him the awards boat anyway and said “don’t come back”. Then they both just sort of disappeared.

[ash]

I know this thread is ancient ! but I think now that Steve Sapp is long since departed ! maybe someone would want to shed some light on the accusations of cheating ! I have heard a million stories over the years ! just don’t know if they were ever true ! , 23 boats & 100’s of thousands he won over the years ! his name & story need to be told !

Anything posted by the internet would be conjecture, especially 12 years later. If you really want to know, reach out to the TD's at the time. It's safe to say that Sap suffered greatly up till the end. The takeaway is don't cheat, and if you have to question what you're doing is within the rules, you probably shouldn't do it or talk to the TD prior to the event.

[birdman920]

I wonder if any of the “am’s” , aaa’s , co’anglers , back seaters , that fished with Sapp ‘ in all those Pro-Ams he won ‘ noticed anything suspicious ? , like maybe casting into a spot , that maybe held a barrel ?….

[Whoopbass]

I heard in one Pro Am he done about 35 mph to his first spot. Absolutely in no hurry. His first spot was some place on the delta that had a wall on it and on the other side was his buddy with a bunch of nice fish. Steve would cast to the other side of the wall where his AM couldn't see and his buddy would grab his line and hook a fish on it.
Said the wreck that killed him was intentional. Suicide due to Shame.
I don't know if these are facts its just what I heard. I also heard about the barrel thing so that probably has some legitimacy to it.

[RMANZO]

The “Varnie” barrel incident is in fact true. My buddy is the amateur who drew him and reported it to the TD. The TD then took my buddy by boat to the location and that is when they found the barrel. Shame on the TD and the organization that didn’t prosecute the cheating loser. BTW that organization doesnt exist anymore. You all remember them, the org that people always had to FIGHT with to get the boat they won at the TOC’s....

[M Pollard]

[quote="Whoopbass"]I heard in one Pro Am he done about 35 mph to his first spot. Absolutely in no hurry. His first spot was some place on the delta that had a wall on it and on the other side was his buddy with a bunch of nice fish. Steve would cast to the other side of the wall where his AM couldn't see and his buddy would grab his line and hook a fish on it.
Said the wreck that killed him was intentional. Suicide due to Shame.
I don't know if these are facts its just what I heard. I also heard about the barrel thing so that probably has some legitimacy to it.[/quote

I heard the same thing.... Told his am to stay in the back of the boat while he pitched around a cement pilling and was catching fish...I have heard it from many people..

[mark poulson]

I think that, if the man is dead and not around to defend himself, anyone who says, "I heard" is just spreading gossip.
Either offer some kind of proof, or keep you gossip to yourself.

[Whoopbass]

Did he defend himself when he was alive or did he go into hiding like that cheater Biden did?
For the record Biden is too far advanced with dementia to even know how to cheat. He was installed by his party the same way a toilet is installed.

[jiggin4bass]

The guy is dead why keep bring up old threads.
Try posting current fishing events
Without bring up biden or newsom your stuck with them so get over it.

[mark poulson]

The guy is dead why keep bring up old threads.
Try posting current fishing events
Without bring up biden or newsom your stuck with them so get over it.

Amen!

[birdman920]

Just thought the tournament anglers who lost thousands in entry fees ( including myself) , would want some closure ! , it’s seems like a fascinating story , did he really choose to end his life ‘ over the guilt’ of was it just an accident ?

[jiggin4bass]

You will have to look else where for anwsers to your questions. Because
you wont fine the anwsers in this forum. Your asking and looking for anwsers your never going to get.
With everything going on with current fishing events with fishing orgs leaving dead fish after at tournaments and hogging up permits and holding them hostage to get the best dates to fish there tournaments. I would think thats a bigger deal than something that happen 10 or 12 years ago. The past is just that the past.

[birdman920]

All the pitfalls of tournament organization’ permit stacking, weigh ins , fish handling, etc. ! is nothing compared to someone who has stolen hundreds of thousands of entry fees ‘ paid by honest anglers ! I believe the story should be known ! , so history will never repeat itself ! , I gave up tournament fishing’ because of Steve Sapp ! & even 12 years later ‘ I’m still upset !

[Whoopbass]

His story won't help. Even if we had his playbook someone eventually will come along with a different playbook.
Do a search on Tony Christian. He fished FLW and his story is similar to Steve's.
Bass Talk Live interviewed the guy that caught Mike Long which is interesting. It's on Youtube.
Robby Rose from Texas is another cheater that got caught. There are plenty that have been nabbed over the years and some of these guys are creative.

[M Pollard]

Mike Hart was another cheater that got caught in the US Open putting lead weights in the belly of bass.
His fish would sink and some would be dead when he weighed them, they cut open a dead fish and it had
weights in his belly

[mark poulson]

Mike Hart was another cheater that got caught in the US Open putting lead weights in the belly of bass.
His fish would sink and some would be dead when he weighed them, they cut open a dead fish and it had
weights in his belly

I was the weighmaster for the Anglers Choice Castaic trail, and Mike Hart fished that with a partner. His fish were never dead, never sank,
and there was no evidence of him ever cheating. He and his partner, John Viazanko, were just always on them. They dueled with Bill Siemantal and Troy Lindner every tournament, taking turns winning, and there was never a whiff of cheating.
Mike Hart's cheating was a one time deal, when the pressure to live up to his reputation got the best of him, and he paid an enormous price. It cost him his job and his marriage. A pretty steep price to pay for one mistake.

[jiggin4bass]

Let me ask a question to you older anglers do you guy go to your local Donut shop up northern ca and set around every morning with coffee an donuts and bring old issues like this.
And come to this forum a expect to get your anwsers. With no facts a ything proven in a court of law. You'll need to let it go. YOU WILL GET OVER IT. Move on

[Whoopbass]

Are you always this cranky Lefty?
The topic has evolved to other cheats and the ways they have cheated. If you do a search on the web for bass cheaters its rather interesting in the ways some of these guys have cheated. Not to mention the amount of money and prizes some have won in high profile tournaments.
There are plenty of facts to prove they cheated but usually the tournament orgs choose to sweep it under the rug.

[M Pollard]

Poulson-
Did you read your post? you claim Hart never cheated, then followed it up with Hart cheated one time and it cost him his marriage, job, etc. So he cheated? I call your claims false. They check him and his fish because they were suspicious of his fish coming in dead, or sinking, They did not just randomly check his fish. They check because they suspected him of cheating in earlier tourney.. In the article they posted at the time stated he would bring in 1-2 dead fish each tourney and they were curious why, so they got one of his dead fish, opened it up and there were lead weights in the fishes belly.. When they were getting his dead fish from the bag to examine them he tried to leave.. Sounds to me he cheated more then just once...

[TonyM]

Cheaters don’t cheat just once. Criminals don’t commit just one crime. And no one gets caught the first time.

[mark poulson]

Poulson-
Did you read your post? you claim Hart never cheated, then followed it up with Hart cheated one time and it cost him his marriage, job, etc. So he cheated? I call your claims false. They check him and his fish because they were suspicious of his fish coming in dead, or sinking, They did not just randomly check his fish. They check because they suspected him of cheating in earlier tourney.. In the article they posted at the time stated he would bring in 1-2 dead fish each tourney and they were curious why, so they got one of his dead fish, opened it up and there were lead weights in the fishes belly.. When they were getting his dead fish from the bag to examine them he tried to leave.. Sounds to me he cheated more then just once...

I said he never cheated when he competed on Mike Iljin's AC Castaic Trail during my time as weighmaster of the AC Castaic trail. That was a period of four years.
He did cheat at the US Open, and was caught and punished. He was competing on the AC Castaic trail at that time, and was immediately banned for life.
No one else, and no other tournament organization, ever accused him of cheating. If you have some other information that says he did, please share it.
He did cheat one time, he got caught, and he paid a huge price for it.

[gixxer464]

Poulson-
Did you read your post? you claim Hart never cheated, then followed it up with Hart cheated one time and it cost him his marriage, job, etc. So he cheated? I call your claims false. They check him and his fish because they were suspicious of his fish coming in dead, or sinking, They did not just randomly check his fish. They check because they suspected him of cheating in earlier tourney.. In the article they posted at the time stated he would bring in 1-2 dead fish each tourney and they were curious why, so they got one of his dead fish, opened it up and there were lead weights in the fishes belly.. When they were getting his dead fish from the bag to examine them he tried to leave.. Sounds to me he cheated more then just once...

I said he never cheated when he competed on Mike Iljin's AC Castaic Trail during my time as weighmaster of the AC Castaic trail. That was a period of four years.
He did cheat at the US Open, and was caught and punished. He was competing on the AC Castaic trail at that time, and was immediately banned for life.
No one else, and no other tournament organization, ever accused him of cheating. If you have some other information that says he did, please share it.
He did cheat one time, he got caught, and he paid a huge price for it.

Mark,
There is no way that you can say with 100% certainty that Mike Hart never cheated in an Anglers Choice tournament. Your statement should have been: " Mike Hart never weighed in any dead fish with lead weights in their belly" while you were the weigh master. There are plenty of other ways to cheat. Just saying. It's a damm shame that he cheated. All those years of dominance down here in So Cal. You are correct that if you fished a tournament in So Cal, you where pretty much fishing for third place. Now everyone of Mike's wins is called into question and his credibility is shot.

[mark poulson]

Poulson-
Did you read your post? you claim Hart never cheated, then followed it up with Hart cheated one time and it cost him his marriage, job, etc. So he cheated? I call your claims false. They check him and his fish because they were suspicious of his fish coming in dead, or sinking, They did not just randomly check his fish. They check because they suspected him of cheating in earlier tourney.. In the article they posted at the time stated he would bring in 1-2 dead fish each tourney and they were curious why, so they got one of his dead fish, opened it up and there were lead weights in the fishes belly.. When they were getting his dead fish from the bag to examine them he tried to leave.. Sounds to me he cheated more then just once...

I said he never cheated when he competed on Mike Iljin's AC Castaic Trail during my time as weighmaster of the AC Castaic trail. That was a period of four years.
He did cheat at the US Open, and was caught and punished. He was competing on the AC Castaic trail at that time, and was immediately banned for life.
No one else, and no other tournament organization, ever accused him of cheating. If you have some other information that says he did, please share it.
He did cheat one time, he got caught, and he paid a huge price for it.

Mark,
There is no way that you can say with 100% certainty that Mike Hart never cheated in an Anglers Choice tournament. Your statement should have been: " Mike Hart never weighed in any dead fish with lead weights in their belly" while you were the weigh master. There are plenty of other ways to cheat. Just saying. It's a damm shame that he cheated. All those years of dominance down here in So Cal. You are correct that if you fished a tournament in So Cal, you where pretty much fishing for third place. Now everyone of Mike's wins is called into question and his credibility is shot.

You're right, there is no way of knowing for sure.
I just didn't see any of his team partners over the years accused of cheating.

[jiggin4bass]

Who cares what they did it's old news gezz people you have more problems with your golden mussel thingy than digging up old **** story's about anglers so called cheating none that I can see that was ever proved. Move on you'll get over it. And westernbass guy write about current stuff not reposting this old ****. Our can you do that. Do get me started.

[Whoopbass]

You're bringing up 4 year old threads just to tell us to talk about current stuff? What kind of scripts do the Doc's have you on?

[jiggin4bass]

The guys dead who give a flying f@#k what he did 15 years ago story or no story people will get over it

[ILW]

There are sure are a lot of posts telling a lot of people what they should and shouldn't talk about, what they should and shouldn't care about, and Im not talking about mods saying "play nice" on the playground they pay for. Im sure we all know what Im talking about.

Who is anyone to tell others they shouldn't bring up an old topic or care about the history of anything, much less a sport they do care about.

How about this - if anyone doesn't want to talk about something they think is "ancient", they don't talk about it and they just move on without condemning someone that does want to talk about something or maybe some of us forgot everything aint all about ourselves.

Ancient history is important for many reasons and most of all because "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

[FinsNfeathers]

Who cares what they did it's old news gezz people you have more problems with your golden mussel thingy than digging up old **** story's about anglers so called cheating none that I can see that was ever proved. Move on you'll get over it. And westernbass guy write about current stuff not reposting this old ****. Our can you do that. Do get me started.

You literally bumped a 4 year old thread to the front page to stand on your soap box and lecture everyone else about not dredging up an old topic.

You are a clown.

[jiggin4bass]

Westernbass writer bump this thread up over the other post about Steve he dead that what wrong with this site bring up old chit. Who cares what he did 15 years ago let it be. This website needs new management to clean it up it's happening on other sites already and you can see the difference it has already made

[FinsNfeathers]

Westernbass writer bump this thread up over the other post about Steve he dead that what wrong with this site bring up old chit. Who cares what he did 15 years ago let it be. This website needs new management to clean it up it's happening on other sites already and you can see the difference it has already made

No. He didn’t. You did.

All he did was provide a link to this thread hidden in the depths of the archives for those who wanted to skip the search function themselves and read up on it, in response to a legitimate and valid question posed in a current thread.

But this exact thread would have remained in the bowels of page 50 unless someone (you) chose to bump it up to the first page by providing additional commentary. You simultaneously bumped a 4 year old thread while chastising people for talking about a 4 year old thread. LOL

Ask your grandson to explain it to you.

[El Jefe]

Westernbass writer bump this thread up over the other post about Steve he dead that what wrong with this site bring up old chit. Who cares what he did 15 years ago let it be. This website needs new management to clean it up it's happening on other sites already and you can see the difference it has already made

Yes, it was much better when we were getting the constant posts about Maine’s new state smallmouth record or whatever other non-relevant stuff they posted trying to keep this place on life support.

I say, let it fly…. Over moderation and Karen’s ruin these sites…. Controversy creates clicks and that’s what keeps the lights on.

[Mienace]

This guy is too f**king old to understand what he just did. Just go and enjoy life……..

[Addicted Fisherman]

What I find interesting about this topic is just about everyone of "us" has cheated in a tournament to some extent. Rules are rules from the life jacket on to more than six fish in the livewell to hooking a bed fish from the outside of the mouth. Kinda like that statement someone made long, long ago "he who has not sinned may cast the first stone".

Where does the blattant cheating and your *** should be tarred and feathered begin. . . Lead weights in the gut, caging fish, intentionally snagging, keeping more than the limit in your livewell as not to spook the fish (seen this one many times: pull the male off the bed, keep it and go after the female). My wife and I just recently witnessed this one and we doubted ourselves as to seeing the team cull a fish earlier then later seeing them put the male in the livewell and go after the female. We were on that same bed 20 minutes earlier and couldn't get either to go. Those guys places 2nd or 3rd in the tournament. We were not 100% sure and by the time we found out had their limit the time frame had expired for protesting.Should they be tarred and feathered or to a lesser extent seriously bitch slapped?

Just some thoughts to ponder.....

Speak for yourself. I never have more than 5 fish in my live well, and I’ve thrown foul hooked bass back on many occasions. A few dollars isn’t worth my integrity.