Off Limits.....

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:10 am

How does everyone feel about the off limits so far early in the tournament season? Personally It has become a nuisance with DV, Perris, on the same weekend you can't go to either one if you want to be in the tournament and what good is an off limits gonna do if you can fish the day before on a Sunday event?

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:23 am

Do I hear a little sniffling, I think its great some of us guys work mon.- fri. religously. I don't believe its set you back any team M&M are doing great in the points.

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:46 am

Okay Jackass.....I mean Jason. Leave it up to the guy who hasn't cashed a check this year to respond. You ESPECIALLY should be pushin' for the lift on the off limits that way you could take some time off work and work on that fishing game of yours.

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:11 pm

Why must we be so mean Mike. thanksgiving is over and I turned a new page . once again I say team M&M are doing great, someone has to donate why not it be me you forget Pete says I'm rich, I can afford it so thats what I'll do instead of giving money to the goodwill I will just hand my money over to bass fisherman. Not you dark colored flipper. We will be there next tourny and you will see a different team collecting 1st place money

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:34 pm

Toss up, would have liked to have gone to DV today in the rain. But it is more of a challenge for sure. If I had to vote today it would be 60-40 towards sucks. Brutal fishing out there, so a little practice goes a long way. Rick G.

19X · Post by **19X** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:10 pm

I was all for it, now i remember after fishin a couple of tournies how tough it can be and how much things change. I think at Castaic that it plays into the hands of the same guys a little more. I felt a little more confident after fishin during the week verses the weekend before. "ANY BODY GOT SOME CHEESE TO GO WITH MY WHINE"
Just shut-up and fish, OK I will.................

swimb8 · Post by **swimb8** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:54 pm

oh you guys know im going to respond..... How many different anglers have won the first few tournies since the off limits was enforced. up here north LA County, none. Same teams won this time last year and the year before.. DV I have no clue about so i wont even talk about it. I tried to make the argument before it all went down but Brian said i was the only one with nooooots. Remeber my quote? " The same guys will win and its not helping anyone just hurting them". Its still real early and personally i dont care because i dont fish tournies here anymore but you guys should have thought long and hard before saying yeah, yeah, yeah! good luck guys! PB's 2 cents

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:29 pm

I wanted to say it but he beat me to it................he's right and it's been that way for years and I'm sorry to say it.........I don't see it changing anytime soon and less Kevin Vandam decides to start fishing perris, dv, and castaic.

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:45 pm

Well, in my humble opinion I would say that 'it all comes down to time on the water.' If you're a working stiff, how do you ever catch up to those folks with years of experience and knowledge? Off limits just keeps those people without regular weekday jobs off the water during the weeks that there is a tournament on that particular lake. Of course they can go and practice two weeks in advance.
Ah, such is life.

Rob Dickson · Post by **Rob Dickson** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:59 pm

At first I thought the off-limits was a good idea so I voted for it. But now I think it does suck. If I or anyone else has a day off work and wants to go fishing at your local lake you have to make sure there is no tourney your fishing that weekend. If there is, you just get to stare at your boat in the garage wishing you were on the water. I don't like being told I can't fish. Like it was said earlier the same guys will usually finish on top either way. And Robert, it is about time on the water and fishing in different conditions that helps you gain experience. It comes with time. I believe you say you started fishing in 1999, so give it more time.

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:07 pm

I am going to give it lots of time. In another 20 years I am going to retire and turn pro.

Topwater Terry · Post by **Topwater Terry** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:17 pm

suspects-Mike Hart, Jess Settem, Noah Cook, these guys are real good, practice or no practice...
Terry

Ron C · Post by **Ron C** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:45 pm

...Poore & Wilder, Taylor & Roady, Olivarez & King - all of whom finished in the top-10 at my first event. And then, of course, there's Long & Kerr, Turner & Waits, the Uribes, the Grovers, and undoubtedly Branscum & Duncan from the other regions. Remember, the cream always rises to the top - off-limits or not.

It's still way too early for the "Told you so's" (including myself) to sound off, but when the time is right....

There's an old saying that comes (came) to mind when this thing first started: "Be careful what you wish for - It might just come true".

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:05 pm

We are like 2 tournaments into the season and people are already whining. Give me a frigging break. I can't believe 2 tournaments into the year that this is already coming up. Let it rest.

If you thought the rule sucked, where the hell were you over the summer when Paul was the only one who was vocal and opposed to it? Give it a chance. If we find out that the rule sucks, it will change, but give it a chance.

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:26 pm

Ron C , you took the words right out of my mouth . Here are a few more from our local stuff , Mike Brakbill , Chriss Rodino , Todd Holder , Matt Newman , Bill Siementel , Eric and Larry Elshere , and dont forget , look out for Mr. come back himself , John Viazanko . Sorry about the spelling guys . These guys are pretty consistant on all our local lakes .

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:29 am

Mike why are you crying you have a win under your belt this season. Deal with it, Brian it was a great idea not only does it take a liitle pressure off the lake , but it does even out the playing field, especially when the spawn hits. Drop it already the damage is done this season is a go with off limits . YE HA

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:00 am

Brian sorry I'm new to the forum I didn't even know about this website until Mike Goodwin called Mitch Southern back in September about some clown holding up a 5 lber at havasu telling everybody its over! I think you guys know who the clown is. (sorry Pete) and since I wasn't here for the first pissin' match this is what I've got to say now.

I think the best point made about the off-limits was said in Bass West Magazine Sept./Oct. issue by editor Tom Leogrande. "The one with Brent Ehrler on it."
I heard Jason Chang (hippie) is starting a new club its called "OFF LIMITS". and yes Charlie S in the quote below he is referring to Team Events.

With the amount of money to be paid out at each of these events, why "amateurize" it by limiting the amount of work an angler is willing to put into it. As with all professional sports (sports with cash prizes) the athlete/angler who puts in the most work SHOULD be the one who wins. If that means , fishing after work, before work, or taking a day off of work to pre-fish then so-be-it. The way I see it, if you want to win then step up and put in the work!

I believe that there is no finer way to get that point across. In my opinion if you disagree with that you should take up kite flying, rock kicking, or mountain climbing.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:08 am

CharlieS. · Post by **CharlieS.** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:33 am

I actually think this is an amateur sport that is spoke about. Maybe due to the fact that let see now....100% of the participents in team events dont do this as a living. Cmon Mike..Think ya can play hold-em like Negrano ?,Its a different league.

There is a line between the rewards in local team events and the Open. Just how many of your sponsors pay you? Not discounts,not free product,...pay you to fish? Boat wrapped deal? The local team events are pretty far away from that arena. Besides...due to the fact that there are several orgs , each one has to actually compete with other team organizations for the very participent so you have some one to beat. Stop wasting time playing

and hit the big time you big dog you! Charlie

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:44 am

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:52 am

To answer your question Charlie S............I have two sponsors that pay me to fish and just finished my wrapped deal with another to fish FLW. Thats why I was up early clowning on people cause I could't get through the lines for 45 minutes to get my deposits in. So if you were trying to make me out to be some rummy I guess I'm calling you out on it. Charlie seems like this hit you pretty bad..........hope you didn't take the sand out of your P****y comment literally or the kick some rocks comment to heart. I just agree with Tom Leogrande's comments that's all. I believe the harder you work, you should be rewarded. The reason I posted this is because so many of the regions that I fish and others are holding their tournaments on Sundays............why should you be able to prefish the day before and not the days prior to that? What's the difference? If your gonna have off-limits have em' not in between.

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:05 am

Brian your a clown!

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:16 am

Better watch out Mike. Jason is gonna armbar your ***.

CharlieS. · Post by **CharlieS.** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:57 am

Laughing,no Mikey , not tryan to make you a "rummy?"

I wouldnt take a serious stab at anyone. So your safe,lol....anyways..Toms comments are like mine and yours , important mind you, but noted with the same amount of authority. The reason the off limits are what they are should be pretty easy to figure out ---The majority asked for them !! Btw,why would I take those comments literally ya clown? Damn kids!! Congrats on the bucks deals...your my hero!!!

Charlie

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:20 am

I am no longer a visitor of this site, but I got a call telling me about your post. Just wanted to say thanks for reading my editorial. I guess I better start working harder on those things... I figured everyone skipped right past 'em and on to the good stuff when the magazine arrives! Speaking of that.. There is one hitting the mail now - However, Keep in mind christmas mail could be slow so hang in there!!

Now with regards to my comments in the magazine... and the replies to your post...

A professional sport is any sport where the participants are competing for CASH prizes. For example: GOLF - Play one golf tournament for CASH and even if you don't win anything - you can no longer compete as an amateur until you apply for your amateur status back and wait for an entire year elapse after your application is accepted.

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:55 am

the difference between the week and the weekend is most average joe has sat. off not mon.- fri. some people just aren't as fortunate , Like me I took a job that requires me to be there everyday else the job don't get done. Dude its not that big of a deal, its over with the body voted and the damage is done no pre fish mon -fri. Hey doesn't BASS have pre fish rules same with FLW will the local team events do too. I remember when Aba didn't let you out during the week and it was hard to police so I don't believe we can actually police it its just an honor thing like fishing so go ahead and pre fish if you have to turbo. Matter of fact tell Sun Country you quit after you qualify this season and hit the road stud muffin

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:02 pm

Tom, that doesn't quite fly in bass fishing. Look at the "Pro/Am" format tournaments... I competed in the US Open this summer as an amateur, not a pro, yet it was for cash prizes. I'm still classified as an amateur in spite of winning some cash.

In my humble opinion, which isn't particulary worth a whole lot, the Teams events that we have here are amateur events. Obviously, the pro side of the big Pro/Ams, and the upper-level tour events (FLW, Bassmaster, Citgo, etc...) would be considered truly Pro-level competition.

As a new guy to the scene, I wasn't a big fan of the off-limits just because the implementation didn't make a whole lot of sense... to me, off limits means off limits. It shouldn't matter whether the event falls on a Saturday, Sunday, or any other day of the week, the lake should be off limits for the entire week. Exceptions could be made for accommodating other tournament organizations that had conflicting dates, because to me there is a big difference between pre-fishing and competition fishing. Regardless, I'm ambivalent regarding the decision... I can live with it, I can live without it. As long as it's applied equitably to everyone it's fair. Anything that we can do to help ease the stress of the resources is a good thing!

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 pm

Okay we all know this isn't going to change..............I never even knew that there was a vote on it and WHEN IN THE HELL did we make western bass the official voting center for our tournament orgs? You've got to be kidding me. Why weren't these brought up at the respective regional events? And Jason I can see where your coming from.............all 4'9" of you, and for you guys that seem to think that these tournaments are just for amateurs tell that to Art Berry, Mike Folkstad, Tim Klinger and various other tour level pros. As for the off limits...........I just think on Sunday tournaments its stupid as hell to shut a lake off all week if your allowed to fish the day before. I guess you can't fix stupid.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:19 pm

Well, I for one never said it was amateur only... not sure if the last comment was directed exclusively my way or not, so I wanted to clarify. Granted, there are many pros who fish Team events. I doubt that they would classify these events in the same category as those Tour events that they fish? I could be wrong, but just doesn't seem like the same caliber.

I liken it to another of my hobbies - bowling. There are many pros who bowl in leagues - I've bowled against Glen Allison, Barry Asher, Gip Lentine, Ricky Corona, Vince Woods... all top-level pros. However, the league setting, while decent-enough competition to attract their level, doesn't come close to the pro-level events that they compete in - PBA Tour, PBA Regionals, megabuck, Opens, etc.

Back to the Teams events - I'm certainly not talking them down, as I aspire to one day be competitive (which I am most certainly not at this juncture) at that level, and in the mean time I'm going to learn all that I can and try to elevate myself to that echelon. Then, I'll look up and see what other heights I'll aspire to at that point.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:19 pm

Mike, Sunday is the Lord's day. You should be at church like Pete, Guy, Jason, and the rest of us, not on some mudhole called Perris.

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:25 pm

Believe it or not I try to haul butt home from the lake to get to the 6:00 mass.

swimb8 · Post by **swimb8** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:13 pm

i lived off of team tournies last year. The only money i made was from fishing team stuff and the big pro stuff. If someone has the means to be at the lake everyday so be it. thats how the cream rises to the top. you dont see carmichael or mcgrath sitting on the couch or working all day. they are at the track getting in laps so when the time comes they are ready. your guys' answer to this is...close the track to everyone because were not all able to go as much as them. No matter how you look at it if you make money you should be able to practice for the best results. anything else is a joke and a huge suckout. have fun giving the money to the usual suspects since you voted for your practice to be clipped. everyone in the club tournies will stay average as you call it. the good will always be good and the not so good will be there until they wake up and smell the coffee.

CharlieS. · Post by **CharlieS.** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:21 pm

Pretty good analogy there!! I'm a bit older than you I'm pretty sure...more of the Hannah type,lol... But even that cant fly....they train... but not on the same place as the event being held. There own "other" areas to practice techniques . For the most part,they dont see the track till sunday, since already being a "ranked" rider --didnt have to qualify sat to ride sunday. All the change from open fishing has done is limit the exposure from angler to angler to a certain time. There is what , 10 lakes in so-cal...plenty of room to throw baits. Ohh well..

...Charlie

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:30 pm

You all act like you can only fish one lake! Wait, most of you CAN only fish one lake

. My bad.
Guy Williams

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:55 pm

There's always one wise Guy!

swimb8 · Post by **swimb8** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:56 pm

one lake? i dont know how to fish any!

CN · Post by CN » Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:42 pm

Thank you all for reminding me why i have not fished a team event in over 20 year's.This same crap went on then,and the lake's were closed from Sunday before the event until the day of the event.

I for one dont understand the ok to pre fish the day before the event

Off limit's sound's like the best thing for every tournament to me.Sound's like a certain individual here is afraid it will affect his ability to place good in an event

How many day's do you need to pre-fish man five.

Topwater Terry · Post by **Topwater Terry** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:55 pm

understand why you can pre-fish on Saturday for a Sunday event. It's because with so many tourneys out there now, many lakes have two events the same weekend, one of Saturday and then another on Sunday. If someone wants to fish both events but they can't fish the Sunday event because they were on the water in the Saturday event and therefore violated a pre fish rule, then people would really be forced to choose one organization over another. "I can't fish the Sunday event because I fished yesterday." It just aint good...
Terry

CN · Post by CN » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:02 pm

Good point i didnt think of it that way,probably even more in your area with the proximity of your lake's.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:14 pm

No, actually Mike is not the type of guy who needs 5 days to practice for these events. He's as good as they come out here and is always tough to beat. He's just a little frustrated because it can be a little confusing as to where you can go on any given day if there's a derby on the weekend.

swimb8 · Post by **swimb8** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:22 pm

im just looking at it from other angles. Here's another. what about the guys who have a guiding business? Now they have to tell their clients i cant take you out on the those weeks because i have a tournament and they dont think its fair. Now THEY lose money from turning down business. Money that would have been hard earned if people would look at the big picture. Its hurting more than its helping, once again. i can keep going but really its pointless since im sticking up for something that doesnt affect me. Once again just another down fall to the off limits. good day!

macinckirk · Post by **macinckirk** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:56 pm

swimb8 wrote:im just looking at it from other angles. Here's another. what about the guys who have a guiding business? Now they have to tell their clients i cant take you out on the those weeks because i have a tournament and they dont think its fair. Now THEY lose money from turning down business. Money that would have been hard earned if people would look at the big picture. Its hurting more than its helping, once again. i can keep going but really its pointless since im sticking up for something that doesnt affect me. Once again just another down fall to the off limits. good day!

Well I'm not going to go long into this , But here is the deal in my eyes

1st if you fish for a living as a guide it is just killing your Buss with off limits
2nd if you fish as a trny pro /whatever you call your self then you need to be out there as much as you can because you only have alittle time per lake.
3rd if your a weekend angler and you have to have a full time job Then maybe you need to get off work and go fish, maybe you need to think about fishing something that does not cost so much or maybe take a few days off and fish

Now before I get hit with alot of B/S look at it like this.

If you work hard at something and get GOOD at it why Should you have to pay the price for people that just want to go out and fish 1 -2 days a week??? maybe they would like to fish More but cann't. Ok then if you would like to fish 3-5 times a week GET a JOB that You Can do that.

Or like I said get off work and go fish even if its just 2 hrs at the end of the day.

The only thing that will make you BETTER is TIME on the WATER!!!!! I don't care who you are If you fish 56 times a yr your going to su-k
if you fish 3 times a week or more and know what the fish are doing you WILL be on top.

Man I'll stop here because I have had a few Beers

CN · Post by CN » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:12 pm

foolishone · Post by **foolishone** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:17 pm

Many may ask why I call myself "foolishone". A doctor droped me on my head when I was 16 when he tried to give me some sort of rear end pill to help me go better. After that occurance he tried to correct my vision by teaching me how to tie fishing knots. now that i was dyslexic my family started calling me names that stuck with me. Like backwards boy, enema man, and the meanest of all, Jan. Thank God for fishing knots. They kept my temper down as I practiced and practiced. That was the start to my fishing career. A career that in the past 34 years has neted me about $1000 in cashed checks at tournaments. To this day I consider myself a "foolishone" for paying my entry fees and going up against the likes of Folksted,Dobyns,Martens and all the team guys who consistantly win month in and month out. I have come to the conclusion that I have as much of a chance of being a walk on place kicker for the Packers as I do of winning a team or Pro tournament. But....this foolishone will keep on giving my money to the pot all due to the fact that at onetime a doctor dropped me on my head. I should of listened to my grandma and just drank that cup of caster oil. the point Im trying to make is who cares if I fish on a Wednesday prior to a event. Im not going to win but at least it would keep me going thnking that I might have,just might, a small advantage over those who have been blessed by the fishing Gods (or those who have never been dropped on their heads).

DL · Post by DL » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:43 pm

Mike you sure opened a can of worms on this subject. I am glad I did not ask this question when I thought about it a week ago. Obviously there are those that fish money events for fun and there are those that fish money events to make money...and thrive on the competition. I for one, love fishing for money, I love the competition, and dont mind donating money to those that are better than me on that day. We all know which teams are the best, and the off limits has made that even more clear. The only thing this off limits rule has done is lengthen the learning curve for everyone involved.

The anglers that have spent the last 5-10 years learning our lakes know seasonal patterns and know where to start looking for fish. And in some cases,_________(insert name here) seems to know exactly where the fish are.

But who's fault is this?? Nobody's... I fish as much as I can, on as many lakes as I can. If I cant get out prior to a "T", thats the way it goes. So I had better get my shyt together in a hurry or I am going to take it that day. But in no way do I hold it against a guy if he has been out the three days prior..thats the way it goes. Those that put in the work, get the results. But only if practice is GOOD practice. Water time means different things to different anglers...

If I could trade my current job and fish all the time I would, but its not fiscally responsible(or possible) at this time. So the off limits does not affect my life one way or the other. I voted for the off limits for one reason: I cannot get out during the week at this particular time and this was the best way I could bring the rest of the field back down to my level

All kidding aside, I figured this was the way it would go, same teams catching fish. But I felt it was a way to judge myself against the rest and see if an off limits would make a difference. Either way, these are the rules and we must live by them.

I have but one more question:

What will the length of the off-limits be for the year end championsips?

Homer · Post by **Homer** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:52 pm

Just a little note to let you know that there are No "OFF LIMIT" days for the U.S. Angelers Choice Castaic Trail. We had a vote at our last tournament and it was 4 to 1 against "OFF LIMITS." The fishermen that fish my trail are the ones that determined what THEY wanted.
Hope to see you at our 1st tournament 1/27/07, Castaic Lake.

Thank you,
Mike Iljin
T.D., Angelers Choice-Castaic Trail

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:12 pm

Mike Phua · Post by **Mike Phua** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:13 pm

Brian "I LOVE YOU MAN"...............Okay got that out of the way. DL you ain't lying about the can of worms I let out. I think I'm gonna pick em' up one by one. Let's just drop this subject and go onto something different

I honestly had no clue what I was starting when I posted this mess, like I said I missed the first royal rumble on this subject. It is what it is.