fluorocarbon and the palomar

[D Evans]

I ve heard that when drop shotting if you use fluorocarbon you should not use a palomar knot. I have not had any problems with this combo but how about everyone else.

[mark poulson]

That's the only knot I use when I dropshot. Just be sure to tie it slow and wet. Also, don't pinch the line to put it through the eye double. Thread it through, and then back again, to make your loop. Pinching flouro, or even mono, isn't good for it's strength, especially in the lighter weights.
Be sure to drop your tag end back through the eye so the hook is facing up.

[vinnybass]

It's the only knot I use on a D/S, and you know I can dropshot DeeJay. That's what got me that 6lber on 6# line down at Havasu. I know you remember that.

[B Becker]

Wow, Deejay....welcome to the board!!! As Vince said, it is the only knot to tie for a DS.....and yes go slow and keep it moist when cinching it down (that sounded kind of risque) ......I drop shot 5 and 6 pound fluoro and it has been awesome....

[tunaman]

While I've never had any problems with using a palomar on flourocarbon myself, Aaron Martens got on me pretty good at the Open for using it. I mentioned that I hadn't had any problems, and he stated that it was inevitable, especially with big fish at the most inopportune time. Given that I entered the Open specifically for the learning, I took this to heart and am no longer using it.

There are a couple of pitfalls with tying the palomar, especially (but not exclusively) on fc - a.) it is easy to make a sloppy tie, allowing the strands to cross and risking having them cut into each other; b.) insufficient lubrication will cause friction to weaken the knot considerably; and c.) if the knot isn't cinched down enough when tied, it will cinch when you get hooked up and risk friction damage.

[B Becker]

Ok Tunaman, so what does he use??? I don't mean that sarcastically, I am very interested in the info...I totally agree with you on the crossing of lines and friction of the knot, but I have never had a problem....I know the limitations of my rig and make up for the tension using the drag...that must have been an awesome draw!!!

[tunaman]

He did a segment a while back on BassCenter or Bassmaster University, one of those shows, where he demonstrated the use of the double Uni knot for dropshotting. That is also what he told me when we discussed it, and as that has been my go-to knot forever for my salt applications (up to 60#), it's an easy transition. I've always found the Uni to have superior knot strength, and it is easy to tie once you get a little practice.

I was more fortunate than I could have ever expected to draw him - it was a very emotional moment. I got into the Open to learn, and boy did I learn. Best of all, not only did I get a fishing lesson from him, I got a major boating lesson also.

[Dan P]

B Becker - From what I have read he uses a Double Clinch knot. Here is a link you can check out.
http://www.questoutdoors.net/skills/cas ... -shot-rig/

Dan

[B Becker]

Thanks Dan, that is awesome....I have always sworn by the palomar, but at the Aim Marine Jamboree this past fall, the guy from Berkeley was there with the line-strength machine....my line broke evertime at the knot......made me very uncomfortable knowing that....I still haven't lost very many fish---probably can count the number on one hand in more than 10 years of fishing, but I haven't used as much fluoro as I have in the last year.....this is all good to know.....again, thanks....I never want to stop learning.....

[tunaman]

I've seen that page before... if you look, it was created back in 2003. I was looking for a link to the BMU segment, but can't find it. Regardless, he was adament about not using the palomar and I for one took his advice to heart. After all, I paid quite a bit for the priviledge

[DAKINE198]

No wonder you take so much time futtin' around in the back of my boat tryin' to tie ur Drop shot rod. J/K

[swimb8]

Use the uni knot! or a double uni if you feel like you need it. We both used the palomar for a long time, then Good ol Aaron comes along with a littel help. He's totally right. Its the only knot to use and not worry about compensating. You dont even really have to be careful tying it. in sinches up nicely. i know we'll never go back. try it and you'll say the same. Swimbaits, the double uni is the only way to go especially if you tend to cast too hard a chuck off your baits. ive personally never chucked one off using the double uni. Trust me it is the only know to use. Fluoro, mono, Braid. Give it a try. Hes the best for a reason.

[DAKINE198]

For D.S. applications though by using that knot in the illustration you would have to compensate for the knot larger than a palomar by running the tag end through the hook eye..no? I've used palomar for a while now and never had to run my tag end through the eye of the hook and very rarely do I have my hook point facing downward.

[tunaman]

Well, you don't have to, just like you don't with the palomar. I always do, though, and did with the palomar before I switched over. It just makes it a bit cleaner.

As Aaron pointed out in the segment that he did, you can adjust the angle of the hook to match your presentation - if you're fishing vertically, you want the hook perpendicular to the main line. If you're fishing more horizontally, casting and retrieving for instance, then you want the angle to more closely match your retreive angle. Aaron is the most anal and meticulous angler I've met, so if it works for him then I'm there... I've tried it and become a believer.

To each their own, however.

[tunaman]

I hate when I press backspace and repost! Sorry...

[DAKINE198]

Well it's worth a try. Thanks.

[cLanderman]

There is no problem with it at all Deejay.

I only tie palomar on all my D/S from 4 to 10 lb, and have had no issues that i can blame directly on the knot.

-Chris Landerman

**Edit** - I didnt mention that I STRICTLY use Flouro when finesse fishing the deap ledges of mead...however, my brother uses a knot that deep sea fishermen use on trot lines, and it seems to work great as well.

[cLanderman]

While on the D/S topic...


How about a couple ideas on D/S twist, what do you do to eliminate, or untwist.

When i dont have time to drag the line behind the boat without a hook on it (which does work) i just pull off the worm/plastic and reseat it in a way that it will spin the opposite direction on the way in.

[DB]

I looked up the double uni knot and it looks like it is knot for the connection between two lines.

Is the double uni knot for dropshotting you are talking about just putting the line thru the eye twice instead of once?

DB

[tunaman]

Yes, it's a double Uni, not to be confused with the Uni-to-Uni splice knot.

[JT-Madera]

Try this web site for knots, its animated...


www.animatedknots.com


JT-Madera

[tunaman]

Looks like the Bassmaster University segment that Aaron did on dropshotting just aired last weekend:

This week on Bassmaster University

Saturday November 25, 2006

7:00 a.m. — Jigs in Deep water with Mike McClelland — Talk with Mike Iacconelli on how he got started. Aaron Martins shows how to rig to have a straight hook and shows how to tie a double uni-knot.

I've got it on TiVo, and can confirm that this was the segment I was referring to.

[D Evans]

Thanks for your input guys like I said I hadn't had any problems with this combo.....Hell three weeks Richard, Tim and a few other guys were out at havasu having a pick up tournament and I caught a 7 1/2 pounder on 6 pound test and had no problem. Thanks for the info guys

[D Evans]

Thanks for your input guys like I said I hadn't had any problems with this combo.....Hell three weeks Richard, Tim and a few other guys were out at havasu having a pick up tournament and I caught a 7 1/2 pounder on 6 pound test and had no problem. Thanks for the info guys

[Gerryjig]

and if you can manage to hold all 3 correctly (mainline, hook and tag end at once) you can cinch the knot so that the hook rides straight and upright and in a "keel" position......without having to run the tag end through the eye again, causing you to rig your worm with the tip of the hook-eye stickin out and not being completely hidden inside of the nose of the bait to make it look more natural. And yes the Uni to Uni is great for braid to flouro too.

[mark poulson]

I tied the doubled Unit knot. It is tricky. I felt like a rookie. I see what you mean about holding everything straight. Is there some secret for making it easier to tie? I can't immagine trying to do it in a rocking boat in the wind.

[tunaman]

Are you talking about the uni knot ("... holding it straight...")? It's really easy once you get a little practice with it, but there are certainly a couple of techniques that make it more simple. If you get out to the turkey shoot this weekend, or catch me some other time, I can demonstrate the way I tie it and you can decide for yourself it it helps...

For me, the most challenging time to tie it is during a hot albie or bluefin bite, early season, with 6 foot seas rocking the deck and adrenaline coursing through your system... I've gotten to where I can rip a uni off in a few seconds and get back in the water with a fresh bait.

[mark poulson]

Tunaman,
I can tie the single uni pretty fast, but, when I double the line, it's more of a challenge.
I will be at Castaic tomorrow and Sunday, so I'll miss your
in-person demo. Thanks for the offer, anyway.
I'm still going to try it. I'm just worried that it may be a pain to tie. I'm lazy.

[tunaman]

The double is pretty easy to tie quickly also, especially if you make a big enough loop and leave a pretty long tag end. I'd say I usually make the circumference of my loop 2-3", and allow up to a foot for the tag end. The loop size allows me to hook my ring fingers onto it, and use my thumbs and forefingers to manipulate the doubled end through the loop. Not sure if this makes sense, but it works for me.

Good luck at Castaic then!

[B Becker]

Since this post started I have started practicing with this knot, and I love it!!! I never get the "curly" line from cinching down the knot too high and heating up the line.....I think the big key is to use alot of line to tie the knot (at first until you get comfortable).....I spin the lure that I'm tying and then put the knot in my mouth and start cinching it down...one hand is holding the two tag ends, and the other is holding the bait and and the loop...this knot rocks!!! especially on fluoro....... thanks to everyone.....

[Jeff Taibi]

I have always used the Palomar for D.S. and have never had any problems. The thing I like is it is very compact and you can pop the knot down through the hook eye to make the hook really stand up.

Once the bait is on there, it will stick out perpendicular from the line, which seems to really get the best results from what I've seen.

BTW, unless he's changed, Aaron uses what's known as a "San Diego Knot" which is a double-uni with the tag end loop passed through the loop at the hook eye and then up through the loop at the top created at the beginning of the wraps. It is a very popular knot with saltwater guys down south.