mark poulson wrote:Bass8myW8,
To say what is on your mind without fear of retaliation or censorship is free speech.
To hide behind a screen name is gutless.
If you believe what you write is correct, have the nads to own it by signing your name to it.
mmarkinma55
The DA represents the people in a criminal case. That cost the tax payers not Won Bass. If they go after him in a civil court (in other words sue him) for past winnings, I am sure Won Basses pockets are deeper than Harts. There are a lot of bass fisherman who fish tournaments in all walks of life. I am sure there is a tournament fisherman lawyer out there that would love to make an example out of this guy in either criminal or civil court. The one who gets bled dry by lawyers in this case will be Hart not Won Bass. The reason defense attorneys postpone all the time is for the money because in the end they always plead their client out. That why they call it bleedin and pleadin.
mark poulson wrote:"A friend in need, is a friend, indeed"
Situations like this are what that saying is all about. It's easy to be someone's friend when things are good, but true friends are there when things are bad, too.
I don't condone what Mike did, but it's comforting to know he still has friends.
He cheated himself, and his sport, but he isn't a monster. He's just someone who made a huge mistake, and will ultimately be the one who pays the most for it.
He's lucky to have a friend like Zank.
rmbumpus wrote:mmarkinma55
The DA represents the people in a criminal case. That cost the tax payers not Won Bass. If they go after him in a civil court (in other words sue him) for past winnings, I am sure Won Basses pockets are deeper than Harts. There are a lot of bass fisherman who fish tournaments in all walks of life. I am sure there is a tournament fisherman lawyer out there that would love to make an example out of this guy in either criminal or civil court. The one who gets bled dry by lawyers in this case will be Hart not Won Bass. The reason defense attorneys postpone all the time is for the money because in the end they always plead their client out. That why they call it bleedin and pleadin.
doug77 wrote:To put weights in a fish,killing the fish, is gutless.Using a cage is gutless.Cheating is gutless
Not according to Mark, Brian, Pete, the Mike Hart groupies! PUKE!
You don't know any of us, so where do you come off saying something stupid like that.
You're probably young, and think you know everything.
It's time to grow up, and see the world through grown up eyes.
Nothing is as simple as you make it out, and a person's life is a lot more important than some money.
I doubt you have ever fished against Hart and Zank, or anyone else, but we'll never know, because you're afraid to add your name to your posts.
Judging from your posts on this, you're an idiot.
I'll be at the next AC Castaic tourney on Aug. 7th, if you want to discuss this in person.
Wait a minute...... How am I a Mike Hart Groupie???? Ive never said ANYTHING condoning what Hart did in the slightest way..
Ive never even said anything on the side of Harts main team partner... NOTHING!!!
Are you calling me a "Hart Groupie" because I said I hate when people have screen names and dont show their real names on their posts??? If so that has nothing to do with the Hart situation . It has to do with having your name on your post and standing up for your words. I dont like the whole screen name thing... Guys should be forced to put their real name on the post in my opinion instead of hiding behind a false name like a coward.
I think Hart is a cheating bastard that got caught and probably cheated all the time which in turn allowed him to steal money from me whenever I fished against him... Ive been very open about that since I heard the news.. Ive never waivered and never hid behind a screen name telling my thoughts about it...
Be a fu.cking man and put your name on your post and stick up for your comments....afterall you have a right to your opinion and given what has happened you have a right to say what you want about hart and have speculation about whoever you want... Just have the balls to stand up for your words...
mmarkinma55, you seem to be mixing up several different issues.
I am no lawyer, but I do know something about it and would like to clarify. There is a criminal matter and a civil matter.
For the criminal matter, which is what is being contemplated in this case, and to all potential cheaters out there, take note:
You can be charged with the crime of fraud for cheating in a fishing tournament. Anglers have been successfully prosecuted for doing so when they get caught and face possible jail or prison time. Anglers have been lead off the stage in handcuffs elswhere.
In this particular case, since Mike was DQ'd, he did not commit fraud as he never got any money or profited from his act. If it was WON"s intent to procecute this incident, they would have been far better served by letting Mike accept a check, and then the fraud would have been completed. Don't know where he was sitting in the standings. He may not have even been in the running for a check which would explain why WON called in out on it when they did, but would make the whole thing even more perplexing as to why cheat when you aren't even in the race. Like I said, I don't know where he was in the standings to explain why some things where done the way they were.
In this case, Mike may be able to be charged with the attempt to defraud. That will depend on Nevada State Law and the state prosecutors as to what charges can be brought for this incident.
If the states are able to prove that cheating has gone on in other tournaments where money was collected by Mike, then the charge of fraud could be brought in any state that the tournament was held.
Again, these are criminal matters and the prosecution of it is done by the state itself, with government prosecutors (ie tax payers)footing the bill. They would however, need WON to press charges and agree to have officials testify. Defense attornies can drag it out, but the law will take its course and a verdict will get reached eventually.
For any other tournaments where cheating may have occured, it is a much different matter. Suspecting fraud, and proving it are 2 different things. Having poligraph tests to detect lying about a win is good enough for a tournament org to disallow a win or wipe out AOY awards. they are a private org, and are hopefully operating under the rules they have laid out. However, that is not enough to prove the matter in court to win a civil case where they are trying to re-coup monies awarded. To do that each Org would have to pay their own attornies to prosecute the matter. In that case, you are correct, and it can get expensive to do a civil court action.
The major issue is if there was cheating involved in past events, Poligraph evidence would not be allowed in the court, so other evidence would be needed to bring charges for past events. That means eye witness testimony, or evidence given by one or more of the people involved. That would be required for either a civil or a criminal action to be successful. Very difficult to pull off.
I'm not saying that any of this has occurred in the past in this case. I would like to believe that Mike's past partners have not been involved in any cheating and that this is a first time thing for Mike as well. I don't know. None of us do. This is afterall, still America where you are not only presumed innocent until proven guilty, (even Mike), but also not pressumed guilty just because you are associated with someone who committed a criminal act. Think a lot of people have lost sight of that lately.
I mostly just want to point out, for anyone who may have similar thoughts about cheating in future tournaments; If you do cheat, you stand to loose a lot more than you think. Potential prison time is possible, along with loss of respect, past accomplishments, friendships, and losing what many of us hold very dear, the ability to go compete in any tournament, anywhere in the country. I have no doubt Mike will have a hard time even going up to Castaic to fun fish now without being called out or worse. Is any of that worth risking, just to do well or win a bass tournament?
DW
Host Bazz Clazz Videos
http://www.bazzclazz.com
All other things being equal, I'd rather be catchin' than fishin'
Ace clone, as we said before, he never posted anything here till the other day, then posts moronic comments...the internet sure has provided a new medium for those types to spew their garbage...
He'll walk PROBATION and FINED at best and wonbass will have a very big bill to pay its very simple no money changed hands at the tournament he cheated and was D Q very simple his lawyer will fight it and keep postpone it. all wonbass has to do is make sure he banned for life from ever fishing any tournaments ever they cant get him or his team parters for any past winning or tournament fished before the us open period. Again it does not matter what he did at other tournaments he was caught at the open cheating what do you have other than he weighted a fish and got caught. he not going too get jailed for that fined maybe but no jail time. The big picture here is you caught a cheater he banned now wonbass move on save your money its as simple as that.
post my name, not a problem
cheating is cheating, one time is to many, get a rope and make an example out of him.
I've been doing tourneys for more years than I want to say and am still seeking that 1st win, I've had 2nd on down and the thought of being cheated out of a 1st or any place for that matter pisses me off. Sad day NO, great day yes, Hang'em and Hang'em High
there will always be those who use their secret forum names and never post there names. I think we've both posted here enough that they know who we are.
On this buddy of Hart and Zank issue(makes me chuckle)... its been done, he cheated period. What happens with his partners is what it is. their's nothing we can do...WON Bass will handle this and the authorities will the proper way.
I am pissed because if he's cheated this whole time he's taken a LOT of cash from me as well as a lot on this forum. To say that Zank giving Hart emotional support and friendship is insane. Everyone screws up... but our true friends are there even when we KNOW we blew it.
Everyone knows what happened...Human life is a fragile thing and people have done stupid things to themselves because they made a poor decision...and nobodies life is worth NO Friends and support. PERIOD!
Again...before I am flamed...read a few paragraphs back...he cheated I am PISSED he cheated but in no way shape or form do I think that Zank being a friend and supported makes him less of a man.
What I find also discouraging is his disreguard for the health of the fish. So much for C&R. I also feel it's a little pre-mature to throw his ex partners under the bus without proof they did anything.
I also think with the type of event such as the Open where ounces can make a differance may have had a play in him cheating.
Did he cheat at more event's in the past,perhaps but neither I nor anyone else posting know's and to assume he did well you all know the old saying about that. Does he need a swift kick in the *** and sent down the road talking to himself YES.
And to Mark and all the other's my name is Mike Nance just another WB nobody.
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