We're still in this fight, guys...

[captainkirk]

Micrpterous...lets expand on your idea for a moment because I think in spirit, its the best idea out there.

Fellas...let's put this "boot" idea into the real world. At first read, I liked it, I liked it a lot! But think about everyday life. Let's say your boat is parked at home in the spot you think it's going to be for ten days. Then, some friends come over, maybe you have a family get together or your kids B-day party and you have to juggle cars (and a boat trailer) for whatever reason. Bummer, another 10 days off the lake. Plus, does anybody really feel comfortable with some kind of chain or "prop boot" on their boat? Let's not forget your truck and/or tow vehicle. They’re inspecting those as well so are you going to but a boot on your truck? Probalby not.

Expanding on Micropterous' idea, let's add technology to it. Everyone has been to the grocery store, right? Each item has it's own UPC code, right? Well, boats and trucks have their own as well. Their serial #'s and license plate #'s.

Picture this...you pull up to the Ranger station (at any lake), the Ranger inputs the registration # of the boat and the license plate # of the truck into the system and bingo!... the system cross-references any other matching entries with the date and times of the last entry. If it’s a 10 day difference, you've obviously been off the water for ten days and you're granted access to the lake. Less then 10 days, you get a complete inspection and it's up to the Ranger to let you pass.

California is really the only state that's ultra paranoid about this so I don't think any other states would jump on board since they know there isn't anything you can do to stop the spread of these things. BUT, with that being said, we might want to offer this as a solution to keep our California lakes open.

Remember guys, this is an idea to keep the lakes open, not to stop the spread because there IS NO stopping the spread....maybe slowing it down, but if you've read my last post and read the references I included in that post, it's obvious these things are not going away.

My two cents...and I don't even have a boat!

Kirk

[Gambler]

Hey Ron C.

I left a VM for Rob earlier today with the info, also emailed him tonight. Copied Ron T. and username DVLmarina.
Thanks, you're doing a lot and I for one appreciate it! Working together, this mess will be resolved.

I still think we need to start a fund to get the bad board members replaced come next election.

[rocky asbury]

You people are missing the point. These water districts don't care about the lake being infested by quagga's for any other reason than it will cost them money to clean their pipes. I've read extensive stuff about these guys and all I can ever find is that they attach to pipes and boats. So that tells me its about money and thats a battle we won't win. These water districts can close every lake it won't matter, the mussels will get in every lake throw the air. Birds migrate and lake hop and we can't control that. In my opion, in enough time every lake will have them and thus be open. If we just be patient we will surpass these gready people(i.e the water districts) and will get our lakes back. I agree nothing is 100% and this is why every lake will get them.

[Guy Williams]

I like Dan's idea IF it can be used effectively for all boats. I'm talking about the everyday fisherman with a car topper to the recreational boater or whatever. I don't see how we can get through this without all boaters input and help. We as the bass fisherman and tournament community have a black eye in the recreational fisherman and boater world, let's not make things worse for us. Can it be done with Dan's idea? Pro's and con's need to be said with all idea's to develop the "BEST" resolution for this problem that effect's every boat registered in this state and near by states. Without going back (which I will) can each boats CF#'s be inserted in a program on the computer that would show where you were last and when? Most lakes already write down the CF#'s when you enter the lakes, so the time per boat would be the same.
Guy Williams- My first public forum contribution for Ron C

[Guy Williams]

Rocky, funny how the MWD brought the quagga in California via the Colorado aqueduct but somehow boaters are the problem, go figure! Humans stop an evasive species, that's a new one.
Guy Williams

[Brian Linehan]

The only thing 100% is 100% BASS I know...shameless plug!

[micropterus]

Thanks for the feedback (CaptainKirk and others that may have reading along) ... here are some more specs from my brain-storming sessions ... as a follow on to my post (above somewhere) ... the Verification Stickers would also need a type of Serial Number or Sticker Number, computer generated and stored along with all the other pertinent info in the database. Also, for clarification, the Boat Registration Number (CF), obviously, this should be for any state where the boat is registered and would not necessarily be in the California DMV system. Wouldn't need to be. As for computer equipment .... PC or Work Station with Internet Access and CQVS Software access, Color Laser Jet printer (for Stickers, reports), Hand held Bar Code Reader(s) (with LCD Screen).

Scenario A - Lakes that are NOT in the "Coalition Of Lakes" AND all lakes listed on the current List Of Lakes Infected By Quagga Mussels would need to be mandated by the Department Of Fish and Game (for whatever state, CA, NV, AZ for starters) to remove all California Quagga Mussel Verification Stickers from all boats visiting THAT lake.

This would ensure that say a boat verified at Lake Casitas (Verification Sticker affixed to hull), would not be able to travel to lets say the Colorado River System, Lake Mead, for example, (this one would be easy because there are national park Entry Stations staffed by park rangers), within the "Sticker Quarantine Period", then return to Lake Casitas a couple days later and be admitted. Upon return to Lake Casitas, THAT boat should not have a Quagga Verification Sticker which would initiate the "Clean And Dry" Inspection procedure and generation of a new California Quagga Mussel Verification Sticker (Lake Casitas). A problem arises for Lakes Mojave, Havasu, and the Lower Colorado River where there are many "unmanned launch ramps". It would be in the interest of the State of Arizona DFG, (for example), to budget for construction of staffed launch ramp stations for this purpose. Hey, Government is destined to grow "by design", a fact of life !!

Dan Curtis

[Guest]

Kirk -

Your theory is pretty good - If it would help, I would make a website that allows Marina's to input registration numbers of boats and vehicles. The Marina's can enter the data with a username and password. It would access the database online and give a full report of every lake where the boat has been for the past month, year, forever... whatever they want to see.

That would definitely work for tracking boats and trucks and where they have been - only problems are.

#1 Every Marina would have to use it
#2 Every Marina wouuld have to have internet access in their office
#3 Data input accuracy
Note: with a barcode reader we could use the barcode on the inside door panel of trucks... boats however don't have a barcode that is useable - Maybe there is one on the motor that is useable.. actually I think there might be!

I could write this in less than a day... and it would be bulletproof and useable. It could be hosted on DFG - or anyone else's site for security reasons. It could even be made public if necessary (read only version of coarse). If this would help I would gladly do it for nothing.

If anyone wants to run with this contact me at TomLeogrande (at) gmail.com

[Dave Wilson]

Keep in mind that the State of California doesn't want to track boats to utilize this program. (This information was delivered at a MWD sponsored training seminar on Quaggas and inspections.) It's a nice idea, and it'll take some politicians to ordain it before DFandG can help.
I'm not at all saying this is a bad idea, just that our State would have to "get aboard"! In fact, it's a pretty cool system!!!

[captainkirk]

NOW WE'RE TALKIN' FELLAS!

Positive solutions forward to keep our lakes open!

There's GOT to be a solution in these ideas. This is GREAT stuff. Ron, John B., what do you guys think? How do we get these ideas to "the board" or the Rangers? Ultimately, this would fall on the Ranger's shoulders to input the data correctly, or verify the stickers and such, so we need to be sure we get them on board first. If we do, I think the Rangers would be a perfect group of people to present this with us.

Kirk

[Hillbilly in Cali]

Has anyone ever thought about a GPS device? I have heard commercials advertising a product called Lo Jack? It can locate your car if stolen. Cellphones has them, fish finders even has GPS. Why not have one that will track a boat/trailer/truck for the determined amount of time. Some will say that it is invasion of privacy, but how much do you love fishin'

[CHUG BUG]

i posted earlier about the gps tracker. the bar code won't work because of all of the potential launch areas that do not have stations. there are quite a few areas that have the self pay thing setup. the barcode would require all of these stations be manned, at a cost. not knowing for sure where the boat has been will still cause the hysteria. that's the problem now. i think that may be the only solution. this way the salt guys can still fish where they may, and not have to chase around for a ranger to seal up the boat. what about the long summer days when you night fish? where do you find the ranger to seal your boat? it is nice to see questions, answers and solutions batted around. i hope this continues. it shows that we truly care about our fisheries.

[micropterus]

I thought of a possible solution to the Colorado River System issue of "unmanned boat ramps". This again assumes that this system is deployed and administered by the State of California.

There are quite a few California Agricultural Inspection Stations located on the various interstate highways statewide. Staff at these sites would need to be instructed to take a quick look at all boats passing through and REMOVE any California Lakes Quagga Mussel Inspection Stickers.

Here are the locations:

Norcal : Interstate 5 at Oregon border near Henley
101 Highway at Oregon border
Interstate 80 at Truckee

SoCal : Interstate 15 near Barstow
Interstate 10 near Blythe
Interstate 40 near Needles
Interstate 8 near Yuma


Dan Curtis

[CHUG BUG]

i see what you're getting at. do keep in mind, that most motherlode lakes rarely have a ranger in the station. i fished at mcclure probably close to 50 times last yr, and only saw a ranger at the gate maybe 5 times. have NEVER seen a ranger in the station at melones or new hogan. that's what i'm worried about.

[micropterus]

I went hunting for a clearer definition of the "Quarantine Period" that was being observed at Lake Casitas before it closed. I went to the "Clean and Dry" web site and found nothing about it. However, there was a link in the sidebar from the DFG website for an article which discussed quagga infestation, etc. and they also talked about using the Ag Inspection Stations to do boat inspections. This has been in the planning stages since this time last year and the DFG is going to send staff out to do these inspections !! Hey, I'm impressed. This is encouraging and hopefully they will be building their progam and policy. They have a real tiger by the tail with this thing.

The bigger problem is that there are now "Clean Lakes" and "Infected Lakes". DFG seems to be coming at this from a prevention of further infections and containment approach. What to do about getting infected lakes clean. Hopefully this problem is being addressed as well.

Ventura County News this morning quoted Baggerly as saying that they will probably just close all the infected lakes.

As for the California Lakes Quagga Verification Sticker idea, the infected lakes should also be doing inspections and issuing stickers. Boats will continue to use those lakes.

Scenario B- A boat travels to Lake Dixon and gets inspected and gets a sticker. That same boat has a tournament this weekend at Lake Castas. Boat owner says, well I'll just remove my sticker and go up to Casitas anyway, they won't know what lake I've been to last. So up to the tournament, lake staff emloyee sees no sticker, goes into station and keys in CF Number and clicks on Search. Up displays boat being inspected and launched at Lake Dixon three days ago. Boater and boat Refused entry to park and tournament. Enters through a side gate along with other tournament anglers ? Lake staff uses the hand held bar code reader and keys in CF Number remotely to get the same information. Should boats using infected lakes be allowed to use clean lakes ? After a "Quarantine Period", not at all ?

Dan Curtis

[Oldschool]

Whatever solution is proposed needs to be self supporting, zero cost to the state of California and department of Fish & Game.
The system must be tamper proof and guarantee the city water board that no invasive mussels will be introduced into their lake.
Bar code readers, printers and computers all cost money. Organizations like BASS can help, has anyone contacted them? I know that BASS tried unsuccessfully to contact the Casitas board and DFG.
Tom

[Joe W.]

The sticker or barcode thing isn't going to work. How can they prove that your boat has net been launched at a lake with not staff to scan your sticker or whatever? They can't.

There are a ton of lakes I can go to where there will be nobody there to inspect my boat, scan a sticker or even know I was ever there. These lake could very well be infested already being that they are in Santa Clara county where the only known Zebra mussel infested lake is located.

Reading through all the replies in this thread, I am all for the trailer leash idea. So far that is the only way we would be able to PROVE with 100% certainty that we have not entered another lake. You can't launch your boat without breaking the tamper proof seal, and if it's broken, you're not launching. Get inspected, wait the ten or whatever days and you're good to go. The problem with this is getting ALL california lakes on board.

I want to thank everyone that is working so hard on finding a solution to this problem. Everyones time and effort is much appreciated.

[Joe W.]

i see what you're getting at. do keep in mind, that most motherlode lakes rarely have a ranger in the station. i fished at mcclure probably close to 50 times last yr, and only saw a ranger at the gate maybe 5 times. have NEVER seen a ranger in the station at melones or new hogan. that's what i'm worried about.

Exactly why a sticker or barcode isn't going to fly. The state sure as hell isn't going to spend any money making sure there are people to scan stickers at EVERY lake in Ca. It's just not going to happen.

So far the trailer leash is the ONLY way to prove you have not been on an infested body of water. You break the seal and you get inspected again. Seems like a very simple and effective solution or at least the start of one.

[Joe W.]

For any of these ideas to work, we would have to be 100% sure which lakes actually have the mussels. For all we know there are lakes that have them already and nobody knows it yet.

How will they know that a lake they don't think is infested doesn't have them already? Is there any way to know for sure which lakes have them and which don't?

[Guy Williams]

Joe W, the biggest problem for the leash idea is how does it work for every boat that is registered; ie, car toppers and such? It has to be for everyone not just our group. First and foremost, whatever is used has to work for everyone. That's where the mess comes in.
Guy Williams

[fishinman]

I know this sounds rediculous BUT you know what were dealing with HERE. I would think the groups against this would say "well they could still back their boats into the water and fish without taking it off the trailer and those mussels are mainly attracted to bass boats with all those extravagent colored marking and the smell of fresh fish and so on and so forth". Again, that sounds crazy to us but remember what were dealing with scientificly and the reality of the personalitys of the people involved, from what I've heard and read. BUT MORE POWER TO YA, I'D HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS TYPE OF ENFORCMENT!

[Joe W.]

It seems easy enough to make sure a little car topper is clean and dry, maybe small vessels will have to get inspected upon entry every time. That's the only way it could be, since you can't prove they weren't launched in infested waters.

[Ron C]

Good point, Guy. Damn - Every time we think we have it wired, there's something that we overlooked.

The DFG wasn't big on the passport idea primarily because it involves more than just California and they fear that the other states might not be as diligent as CA would be (i.e. - they don't give a damn).

The answer is out there and we're getting closer to it.

Thanks for all of the in put guys (even your's Guy - lol!)

[Guy Williams]

That's why we need a system that works the same for everyone, not just some. That's again where the problem is. I don't see how one group of boats can do it this way and another group of boats do it that way and so on. That's what makes this hard!
Guy Williams

[Guy Williams]

On a side note with entry area's of lakes that are and were unmanned. I know Lake Perris east entry was unmanned before (I have not been there in some time) is it now? A entry that is unmanned is a threat in it's self with this mussel deal. That should be a past event that we can't have now.
Guy Williams

[micropterus]

Sounds pretty much confirmed to me that the DFG was already planning to use the California Agricultural Inspection Stations to perform Clean and Dry boat inspections .... (see above list of stations) ...... this means that they wouldn't need to involve any other 'Out Of State' agencies in the program .....

Dan Curtis

[Hillbilly in Cali]

Is there any chemicals that kills the mussle and is not harmful to the environment or boats/vehicles? If so there could be a pit that the vehicle that is pulling the boat and the boat it self pull through with the chemical or be sprayed down before and after entering/exiting a lake. You would not have to track anything that way. Yes, it would be exspensive, and fishermen would suffer the most, but it could work.

[MCSPIN]

I was reading the Dailynews article and it said that the Quagga can stow away on boats-hiding in water lines, buckets and bait tanks. So what keeps the shore fisherman(with buckets) from going to a lake with the Quagga in it and then taking the bucket with items in it to the other lakes?. Could'nt they bring them in on something in the bucket or a fishing net? Just a Idea.

[micropterus]

Exactly Guy, unmanned launch ramps that are supposed be manned .... Excuse Me ? Where is the staff ? Some one has some splainin' to do, I would think. I don't know what the reasons are but in the long haul, if the DFG is to be thorough with their policy, they would need to address this problem. It could be that a concessionaire would need to be called in to fill this need. The Delta, now that is an interesting situation, being the gateway to international shipping ports of Stockton and Sacramento. They could never close this waterway. Kind of like a Great Lakes scenario.

As for the 'cable/lock' method, hey, I'm all for it if we can get Casitas opened up again .... those Casitas Largemouth have been on vacation too long already ... it must be like Spring Break for them up there, all that fornicating and partying and carrying on ..... It's been fun hashing this out and exchanging ideas ... checking out for now ....

Dan Curtis

[Toad]

What about something like this?

2) Safety Seals
Constructed of synthetic paper, Safety Seals are compatible with permanent ink and felt tip markers. The synthetic paper is resistant to moisture and acceptable for limited outdoor exposure up to 90 days in most environments.



The permanent adhesive quickly bonds to most surfaces, so the frangible security feature is available quickly — usually less than one minute. When removed, the Safety Seal tears into pieces, and delaminates leaving the adhesive and bottom layer of paper on the affixed surface.

Safety Seals are also ideal for commercial applications to print serial numbers or bar codes on demand.


The ranger affixes the strip across your drain hole prior to leaving the lake, that would take care of all boats with drain holes, trailered or on top of your vehicle except for canoes. These seals are .5" x 5" They can also print "Coalition of clean lakes and put maybe the state seal on it to prevent people from getting there own roll of stickers. This is the web site http://www.novavisioninc.com/pages/prd_ ... seals.html, and cost about $.10 per seal part number SSF22-15.