Trolling Motor Batteries

scottsweet · Post by **scottsweet** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:31 pm

Maybe....what are the capacity of your batteries?

Couple things to consider...

Try to use higher capacity batteries. Your standard leadcell deepcycle batteries have a capacity of about 700-800 amps. The AGMs can be from 750-900 depending on the brand. If you get the BIG Dual Pros, 1200 amps!

Keep in mind, there are 3 sizes of batteries...27, 29 and 31 series. The bigger the number, the higher the capacity. Do you know how big yours are?

The charger type can have a lot to do with battery life. The basic charger, like Dual Pro, often overcharge the batteries and get the cells too hot resulting in gasing the batteries on occasion. When this happens you reduce the life of them over time.

Finally, did you always recharge them after use. If you let batteries sit with a charge of less than 85% or so for more than a day or two, sulfication starts. Sulfication reduces the capacity and the life of your batteries.

I rep a battery charging system that helps in all these areas, but don't really want to pitch that here. The basics is that it uses a patented technology to charge your batteries more efficiently and also while you are running your big motor. Check out the Stealth Charging system and if you have questions, drop me a line.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:28 pm

Thats good info Scott

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:32 pm

I thought I had tm problems, but Nick at the TM Dr. check it out and said it was performing up to factory new specs. He suggested the plug connection from the tm to the boat might be corroded. I changed that out, and now have full power all day.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:23 pm

By the way... Scott is rep'ing for them, so he can't really make a plug. However, I'm not, and I got my Stealth1 DC charger a couple of weeks ago and had it installed in time for our two-day Havasu tournament last weekend.

I've got to say, I'm really impressed. It worked well... I've got a Ranger Z20 with a MinnKota 36v 101 trolling motor, with a cranking battery and three batteries (obviously) for the trolling motor. I pre-fished the day before our tournament - actually I ran 16-18 miles and then did a lot of looking around, mostly on my trolling motor. I checked the voltage when I hauled out that day, and it was pretty high (12.6v as I recall), so I decided not to charge overnight. The next morning, I ran the 16-18 miles again and worked the area for the whole tournament period, leaving just enough time to get back to weigh in with a small buffer. I was on the trolling motor hard all day, working bed fish and habitat, and didn't have any power loss. I'm a confirmed believer in the system.

Oh, and by the way, I installed it myself in less than 30 minutes... it couldn't have been easier.

I'm a satisfied customer!

Roger

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:38 pm

Hawksterii,

I wouldnt listen to Roger, he doesent even know what this is

Parastratiosphecomyia stratiosphecomyioides

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:45 pm

Boring, and unrelated to the discussion.... really a waste of vowels and consonants (stratiomyid fly).

Don't waste my time, Grecian formula! Go back to sleep, or work!

Kevin Shin · Post by **Kevin Shin** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:54 pm

Is there any way to gauge or check the HEALTH of battery?
I've had all 3 TM batteries dried up once.
I charged them all night before I went to DVL for a tourny and no power at 12 o'clock when the bite starting to go off with the wind.

Checked the batteries and they were totally dry.

I know it's bad for them,,,,I "feel"they are not as strong as before.

Check your batteries and fill them with distilled water once in a while.

Question again::: How do I check the "health" of battery?

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:58 pm

ha ha you googled that

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:01 pm

You haven't played Trivial Pursuit???

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:04 pm

Why yes I have, can you please translate this??

Kamalamalamaokalailokokapu`uwaimehanaokekeikipunaheleoda

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:04 pm

It's got to be Hawaiian... that I'd have to Google... hold please...

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:05 pm

he he he he

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:08 pm

Miss Aloha 2001 Hula Natasha Kamalamalamaokalailokokapu'uwaimehanaokekeikipunahele Oda (Halau Ka Ua Kani Lehua), to be exact.

MAN, you must be bored!!! GET BACK TO WORK!!!

Or, be useful and answer the poor fella's questions regarding battery health!

scottsweet · Post by **scottsweet** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:11 pm

There is really only one way...put a load on it and see if it holds its voltage. If you were to take your boat to a good mechanic, he will have a Sun battery checker where he can put a 30 or 40 amp load on the battery while checking the voltage to see if it drops significantly.

You can't really simulate this out of the water cause there really isn't a load on the prop while out of the water.

You should check them every couple of months for the water level if they are checkable. You can use a hydrometer and ensure each cell value is good and even.

Another option is to invest in one of the fancy battery analyzers like Jordan has ($100-200).

Sorry I don't have anything better.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:11 pm

I knew I didnt get that last word fast enough. BUT can you tell me what it means

Batteries? I always call Scott when Im confused

scottsweet · Post by **scottsweet** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:14 pm

Thanks Roger for the testimonial. Did you get a gauge to go with your DC unit? Where did you get it?

If you put the gauge on the unit, you will always see the trolling motor voltage and won't need to use your battery voltage tester. There only $100 at Anglers Marine.

Hooking them up is very easy...I use at least a 3 wire sprinkler wire and run it from the back to the console area. You have 4 wires....

1. 12V (constant)
2. Ground
3. Accessory light in your dash area. I hooked it up to the light accessory off of the Ranger light
4. High + voltage of your trolling motor battery.

If you can't get one, let me know.

Also...since you got the Stealth DC unit, did you know you can now hook up the tow package and charge all of your batteries while your driving home?

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:18 pm

In general, Scott, can't you sample the voltage for each battery and make a basic determination if they fall outside of a nominal range? It wouldn't be definitive, but indicative of a potential problem or weakness if there is more than a minimal tolerance between them that should be more thoroughly validated.

As for you, Lance... no, I can't I've got to get to bed so that I can WORK tomorrow, which, while a foreign concept to you, is what many of us do to earn our paychecks!

Why don't you go Photoshop something for Rae or Rub... it seems to fall within your unique strengths!

Love ya, Lance! G'night!

scottsweet · Post by **scottsweet** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:28 pm

You can check the voltage...but it is a static voltage with no load. The one thing you can look at is the voltage differences between batteries and that can provide some information. It may identify a weak or less than fully charged battery.

The best way is to apply the load and check the voltage. The battery analyzers are good..but expensive and most aren't going to just buy one to check a battery every now and then.

One thing to understand is that if a battery sulfates, the static voltage actually goes up, not down (a false voltage reading). Then when you apply a charge, it goes up even more and causes the charger to shut off.

Does this make sense?

DAKINE198 · Post by **DAKINE198** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:15 pm

Doesn't anyone use a
Hydrometer any more???

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:15 am

Not in this day of sealed cells...

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:36 am

If you switch to sealed cells, like Optimas, you won't have to worry about dry cells or adding water or sulfation.

scottsweet · Post by **scottsweet** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:57 am

Mark,

All batteries sulfate if they go ~85% of capacity. In fact, they seemed to be more susceptable to sulfication.

I personally used the Optimas one time and did not like them. They are nice being that they are maintenance free, but I found they did not last as long (# of charges) nor could I get the capacity like in the Dual Pro Lightening Series.

One of the things the Stealth1 charging system does is produce a charging wave that helps remove sulfication when it first starts. This helps eliminate it ever sticking to any of the cells from the get go.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:20 am

Scott,
Thanks for the info.
I'll keep that in mind. As it is, I always put my batteries on the charger as soon as I'm home from the lake. They seem to hold a charge just fine so far.

Kelly Ripa · Post by **Kelly Ripa** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:52 am

Funny I'm trading in my Optima 31's today for a new set. Used since first of June 05. Because I'm a minnkota tourpro digital at 82 pounds of thrust kind of guy I will eat a battery harded and faster than the 101thrust 36 volt girls. Because of the capacity of chemical conversions has been deminished over time and the fact that my girls are just so mushy now... new ones today!

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:17 am

Kelly,
Aren't your batteries still under warrantee?

Kelly Ripa · Post by **Kelly Ripa** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:51 am

yes I'm trading them in for the new ones. Always keep your reciepts guys! They prorate the price on age. It isn't a corrosion issue I can assure you.

Hugh_M · Post by **Hugh_M** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:04 am

I agree with Tunaman. The Stealth system is awesome. I put both the DC & AC system in my Ranger when I put on the Honda about 3 years ago because of the huge Amps, like 60A, out of the Honda alternator. I am still running a 24V TM and fish at least once a week and have had no problems. Even in some of the heavy all day winds on the Colorado river lakes, if you think your batteries are winding down, just start the engine and let it idle, they charge. Long runs on the big motor charge up the TM batteries real well, cutting down on the charge time for the next days fishing.

A B Legend Pro Staff · Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:54 pm

You can check your battery with a hydrometer, a device used to read specific gravity depending on your local elevation.
Also you need to equalizie or gas your batteries twice a year depending on use. The gassing process helps to loosen hard build up around the internal plates, this is the biggest reason for for loss of energy in deep cycle applications. Batteries need to be charged at a voltage of at least 15.1 to equalize. Most onboard chargers are not going to give a full 14.4 volts needed for full 12.5 voltage. Check your batteries while charging to see how much input voltage your charger is producing. Remember, this is for lead acid applications. Always check fluid levels after gassing and refill only with distilled water.

DAKINE198 · Post by **DAKINE198** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:56 pm

use a volt meter to see how much volts your charger is pushing into your batteries.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:10 am

Steve,
Are you really in Hawaii?

DAKINE198 · Post by **DAKINE198** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:30 am

Nah, but from the way I fished da R7 I wish I was back home.....

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:54 am

What ever happened to "Island Fever"? I used to work finishing concrete with a Hawaiian (?) guy who said he got Island Fever, where he had seen all the movies, gone all the places, and was related to all the women, so he had to move.

DAKINE198 · Post by **DAKINE198** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:13 am

Its called Married with children

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:25 am

I guess that'll cure anything.

scottsweet · Post by **scottsweet** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:21 pm

Agreed. With the charger on, check the voltage on the battery. It should be > 13 volts...about 13.5.

DAKINE198 · Post by **DAKINE198** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:40 am

Is it a good idea to trickle charge the batteries manually ever once in a while?

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:49 am

Steve,
Great question. I don't know the answer, either. I've heard that trickle charging every once in a while is good, I've heard "shocking" your batteries with a stronger charge every once in a while is good. I don't know what to do at this point.
I'm so confused!!

I'm gone for ten days, no email at Lake Cachuma, but I can't wait to read the response from Scott about this.
Do me a favor. PM me Scott's reply.
Thanks in advance,
Mark

scottsweet · Post by **scottsweet** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:37 am

The answer is yes to both shock and trickle

. Shocking huh

. This is long..but will explain it....

Here are a couple things to remember. Chargers are rated by the amperage they produce...say 5 amps or 10 amps. This number means the number amps per HOUR they output. However, Amps are represented to the battery as voltage. Higher amps means a higher voltage to the battery. Also, 12V batteries charge from about 12.8-15V depending on the technology. As a charge is occuring, the measured voltage on the battery slowly rises till it reaches is "fully charged" (peak) voltage. At the same time, when the peak voltage is detected, it reduces the voltage (hence the amperage) and keeps charging until the charger is not putting out any measurable amperage and is detecting the "fully charged" peak voltage. Chargers shut down when they detect the high voltage that is set in the charger for a "full" charge. This shut down voltage is artificial because it does not represent the actual static voltage of the battery after the plates have cooled for about 24 hours after a charge. In other words, if you were to check a battery within an hour after charging...it might register 13.8V and then check it the next day, it would register 13.1V. Some chargers have microprocessors in them so they are capable of charging straight lead cell batteries as well as the more advanced AGM or gel batteries. These newer batteries require a "full charge" higher voltage setting before they are fully charged and therefore cause the charger to shut off later than for a normal lead cell battery.

So....here's why both are good...

Trickle charging allows the batteries to reach a true "full" charge. The voltage sent to the batteries for charging is not very high from the get go so you do not get a false high voltage reading that causes the charger to shut down too early before the batteries have reached a "full" charge. Also, the plates do not get very hot - extending the life of the battery.

Obviously you can't do this all the time or we would be charging our batteries for weeks if you are restoring from a 25-50% capacity. But doing so occasionally is good provided the charger will allow you to do it. Many of the generic chargers you find (not ones for our boats) have a multiple amp rating for charging...2amp, 5amp and 10 amp for example. They also start at the high number that you select (say 2amp) and they gradually reduce the amps as time goes on. If you were to watch the meter on it, you will see it show the max and then say 5 hours later, you will notice the output has been reduced till it basically goes to nearly 0. In reality, not only is the amperage going down, but so is the voltage being sent to the battery as discussed above.

A "shock" charge causes a very high voltage to be sent to the battery and gets the plates very hot. A shock charge would be over 40 amps for example. The very large chargers you can buy or ones that are at the service stations have a setting for 50 amps. You come in and tell them you ran your battery down because you left your lights on or something and they plug it in for an hour or two to bring the battery back a bit so the alternator can take over. This is 50 amps per hour charge. The value of getting them real hot can help eliminate minor sulfication that coats the plates of the battery. Its kind of like if you got smacked hard when you are kinda sleepy...you wake up fast right?

. BUT, you can't do this very often because heat is one of the number one things that reduces the life of a battery. When the batteries get real hot, they can gas. All batteries have safety valves in them. As you charge the batteries, they give off gases and when they are real hot, the gas pressure can go beyond the "norm" so to speak and a pressure relief valve goes off to release those gases. If we didn't have that, batteries would explode

. Gasing a battery in general is bad. Overcharging or overheating a battery in general is bad...bad bad bad. BTW...its BAD.

The second thing that kills batteries is sulfication. I won't go it to grave detail here...cause it would be another 2 pages, but basically it is a coating that plugs the pores of the lead plates on the batteries eliminating the chemical exchange that takes place when we charge our batteries. As I mentioned, spiking helps break away minor sulfication. There are a couple of companies that have developed a way to charge a battery with a sign wave that helps break this sulfication down every time you charge. Stealth 1 Charging is one of those companies and one reason why the Stealth Charger is so effective for both AC and DC charging.

We probably need to do a few articles on this to explain everything that goes on with our batteries...but hope this answers some of the questions.

If you have any other questions, let me know!

Scott

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