What brand and model graphs are the big boys using up front

[da bass guy]

Needing to buy a graph for a 19' ranger and I want to see my dropshot fall into the cone and down to the bottom. What do guys like Skeet, Jimmy, and Dobyns, Dave Rush and these type guys use? Thanks, Da Bass guy

[Bill Cook]

I fished with Art Berry at Diamond Valley this year. he used a Lowrance X-19C on the front. With that set-up, he was able to show me more definition on the drop shot and how the fish were reacting too it than I believed possible. I bought a X-19C the next day.
Bill

[Ken C.]

Well you can ask anyone who knows me and they'll tell ya that I'm a fairly big boy, and I have an X-15C up front. 'Course I don't yet know how to use it, and I don't catch too many fish, but if I'm real carefull I can drop something down there (usually my sunglasses or pliers!) and see it clearly on the graph! (sorry about the wise a$$ answer, I just couldn't help myself!)

Good luck with your choice!

[Marc]

There are quite a few good choices that will show your dropshot rig in deep water. If you only need sonar, then my recommendation would be the X102c. This color unit has 480 x 480 pixel count, 2,400 watts of power, and a fast processor speed which really helps to clearly show your dropshot rig.

If you would like the advantages of GPS on the front of your boat (helps eliminate the need for marker buoys), then make it the LMS 332c, which is basically the same sonar with GPS added.

If you want a larger screen for the front (which isn't really a big deal up front) you will pay quite a bit more.

ciao,

Marc
Lowrance Prostaff

[Rich hamilton]

I am a lowrance guy but it sure was nice the other day with the pinpoint system @ the back of the boat being able to have two units on at the same time. is the technology out there or on its way from lowrance? I find it difficult fro0m the rear deck when I cannot view the bottom. RR

[JimmyReese]

I can only tell you from experience, that in the past 6 years my confidence, and performance, has enhanced due to learning my electronics......I believe I can write my name on the screen of a Pinpoint tr-320.....I have never looked at a lowrance product, but I have never needed to...Pinpoint is a great product, I really dont use it to much on clearlake and the delta, (as far as looking for fish, pretty much depth only and water temp.) (maybe I need to) but for resevoir fishing, especially "spotted bass" its opened up a whole new world:)....Skeet has a T.V. on the dash of his boat (lowrance),Dobyns doesn't need a graph, he can see down 40 feet, or he'll just make a phone call and they will just swim to his boat .....not sure what Dave uses, Greg G has a Pinpoint on his boat,(he says" if you want to know the difference between your dropshot, and your worm, use pinpoint") I think he has done pretty well on shasta,and oroville, and clearlake,and...well you get my drift.....pixel count is important for more detail...Good luck! I hope this helps...Jimmy Reese

[Narcdogk9]

I thought Pinpoint was going out of business?

[Calistar]

Dobyns doesn't need a graph, he can see down 40 feet

Yeah, but doesn't the cape get in the way of his casts?

[JimmyReese]

Well, I am not sure about a "cape"... superman never needed a shotgun for his other hobbie,( he likes to hunt),.........I think " Crocidile Dundee" was kinda the super-hero I was thinking of..... Oh! and I dont think Pinpoint is going anywhere, Brunswick is a huge corp. Don't be surprised if you really start to see this company grow! F!$# on!

[fishnfool]

While fishing the Pro/Am at Clear Lake, I asked this question to every Pro I came accross. Every answer was Lowrance. Not one Pro had mentioned Pinpoint (at least all I asked). Most of the Pros had GPS on the front as well. Don't know if this helps but, that was the result of my pole. Good Luck!

[Cooch]

came from Aaron Martens at the BASS Shasta Open in 2000, he won that event on a borrowed Pinpoint 7520(Legacy product, no longer made)! At the time, Aaron was a Lowrance guy who's unit had failed the day before the event. He said, "Cooch, this PINpoint is by far the best displaying unit I've ever used. You owe it to yourself ta buy this one over all the others. I promise it will help your fishing" That following week I hooked up with Pinpoint and acquired a pair. Still using them to this day! Like Jimmy has said, my 7520 has opened up a whole new underwater world in aiding my fishing! I do use it most of the time for simple bottom contour dephts and temp readings. But I have come to recognize that when I see fish on it, they are generally fish most units can't see. I am more often than not, able to go down and catch em. I even see fish suspended in the deep grass of the Delta, it's amazing!

I've been on a number of boats that had a PINpoint up front, and a Lowrance, Hummingbird, Garman or something else on the back. I'll see stuff, the guy in the back never sees, or what I see, is in far greater detail. I know some of the newer units by Lowrance are purty exceptional units, but I'm looking forward to getting one of the newer TR320s on my boat some time soon! But, not until my 7520s die! There just is no need in my mind, or a better unit for my purposes.

That was "big time" advice, from one of today's BIGGEST!

[fishnfool]

While fishing the Pro/Am at Clear Lake, I asked this question to every Pro I came accross. Every answer was Lowrance. Not one Pro had mentioned Pinpoint (at least all I asked). Most of the Pros had GPS on the front as well. Don't know if this helps but, that was the result of my pole. Good Luck!

[Rich hamilton]

Mark,

does lowrance have the "in sync" technology coming out that pinpoint uses? On the pinpoint website they state that you can use 3 units without interuption. I usually just use my from lowrance graph (deck) but have been in many situations where the guy on the back picks up something i miss in the rear unit which I have been fighting the distortion all day to the point where i turn it off. RR

[Jeff C.]

Several years ago it seemed like Pinpoint was top of the line and I was thinking of switching to them. Since Motorguide took over, however, it seems to me that Pinpoint has really gone down hill. For instance, it appears that they only have one model now? No color units? Apparently Bass Pro Shop doesn't even carry Pinpoint sonars any more. It's a shame because I'm tempted to get one of those Motorguide PTSv trolling motors but they are designed to go with the Pinpoint sonar and I'm afraid doing so would be a step down from my color Lowrance.

[Marc]

Rich, I'm not sure that I understand your question referring to "sychronization", but if you mean can Lowrance network so that the same display appears on multiple sonars, then at the moment the answer is "no".

Personally, I like being able to get different pictures from transducers in the front and back of the boat.

Your sensitivity problem can definitely be solved, but your transducer mounting and sonar settings need to be checked.

Lowrance GPS units can be networked to work off of a single antenna (I use an X26cHD networked to my LMS332c in the bow), and can be networked with multiple new sensors that wil display engine and other info right on your sonar screens.

Most sonar units are amazing in their quality for the price, and each year they are more and more advanced. Some compare apples to oranges when they keep a sonar unit for 4 years, and then switch brands, and think the new brand is superior in detail. In many cases operator knowledge is far below the technology of the sonar unit purchased, and the owner doesn't get the most out of their sonar.

Frankly even mid-grade sonars are capable of showing a dropshot worm at 40 feet, and a thermocline, yet very few have their units setup to show this. My X26c shows my dropshot worm easily in 65 feet, so it isn't missing fish within the sonar cone.

ciao,
Marc

[mark poulson]

I recently replaced the transducer on my trolling motor, for the X98 on the bow. Now, it overrides the depth on my console X15, and even seems to show more detail. Is there something I should use to clean the X15 transducer, or should I replace it, too? The front one had nicks in the cable, but the back one seems fine. Do they wear out?

[Phil]

EXPLAIN TO ME THE REAL USE OF ONE IN CLEARLAKE IF YOU ARE FISHING WATER 3 TO 5FT DEEP ALL DAY ???

[Marc]

The use of any piece of equipment is in the eyes of the beholder. When I was growing up in Delaware, I used my 5.5 foot pistol grip rod as my depthfinder by poking it in the water. If it didn't touch bottom, I was fishing "deep" water. That is all I needed for those conditions.

If a good quality sonar makes no difference to you because you only fish consistently shallow water, then it doesn't appear to be worth purchasing one. Only you can determine the "real use" for anything.

ciao,
Marc

[Marc]

Mark,

Yes, they do wear out. I have noticed a decrease in performance over time, especially when the transducer has been exposed to the elements, and also when it has been used a lot.

The sound pulses still occur, but with less power and therefore are "received" showing less detail. I don't know how fast the aging process is accellerated under various environmental conditions, but it seems to me that boats stored inside show greater transducer strength longevity than those exposed to freezing and high heat temperatures.

Whenever I try to troubleshoot a sonar, I compare the readings from a new transducer to the one installed on the boat, and that usually speeds up the process of determining if a problem exists with the transducer, or its mounting, or the receiver.

ciao,
Marc

[Cooch]

EXPLAIN TO ME THE REAL USE OF ONE IN CLAERLAKE IF YOU ARE FISHING WATER 3 TO 5FT DEEP ALL DAY ???

I've got a number of places I fish on Clearlake in the fall and winter, where it's 6 foot or less, the water is real stained due to winds, wave action or the fall turn over spread of scum. On these flats, are little gullies maybe 2 feet wide, that drop off and 1-2 deeper than the surrounding flats. Huge pattern to find where the bass will be loaded like cattle at times in these little troughs.

Another situation is, and I actually ran into this two weeks ago, you'll stumble onto small grass patches that come up out of nowhere right now. Every now and then, one of these little grass patches can be a magnet fer bass. You'll never see these from above, much less on a flasher. My PinPoint 7520 points these little subtleties out when I might overlook them had that unit not been on the front of my boat!

[Rich hamilton]

marc,

thanks for the response, I guess I was saying that the two lowrance units interfere with each other when on at the same time in the front and on the console. I did or do not adjust my sensitivity on the console to make each unit work @ the same time. during practice I jump from spot to spot and different depths using the same settings and constantly fight the interference problem. I could reduce sensitivity on the console and possibly remove the interference. The pinpoint system I am talking about showed zero interference throughout the day. I am a lowrance user but I have not seen two units working on the same frequency that do not interfere when the cone angles come together. i just do not understand how the pinpoint system works versus the lowrance. this subject is similar to interference problems with trolling motor/finder issue's. there are many fixes but i have experienced much frustration over these two issue's and I cant wait for either the patent police or the technology to solve these problems. I agree many problems are self imposed!

[mark poulson]

When Castaic and the rest of the southern cal. lakes were chocolate this last winter, sonar was the only way to find any structure, which was different than in the past. The heavy rains had caused so many slides and moved so much mud, the lakes down here were totally different. I know this isn't the Delta, or Clearlake, but I use the sonar shallow so I don't hit the bottom when I'm moving in to "unstick" a jig or some other rig. Rocks are not nice to trolling motor props, even the Kipiwa. And when the algae is heavy, you can't see three feet into the water down here.
Last, when I'm fishing a point from shallow to deep, I use sonar to keep my position, when the water isn't clear enough to see the bottom.

[Marc]

Rich, thanks for the clarification. I totally understand your frustration with the problem of cross-talk. As you know, the problem is that on our bassboat we put two receivers (the sonar units) that are tuned to the same frequency, and put two transmitters (the transducers) in the same proximity that are also tuned to the same frequency.

We would think the simple solution would be to just use transducers and receivers on two different frequencies. You can do this now with Lowrance, by simply using a dual frequency sonar (50/200kHz) in conjunction with another sonar, and set the dual frequency unit on 50 kHz, so it doesn't crosstalk with the 200 kHz unit on the front. BUT THIS COMES AT A PRICE. The 50 kHz unit gives a much lower level of performance than you will be happy with, since it cannot provide optimal target separation.

This is what many don't understand. Lowrance can build a unit to be on many different kHz settings, but none function nearly as well as being in the 192 - 200 kHz range. Bass anglers want the best picture, which is why the better units are designed in this range. Remember, you can overcome the crosstalk problem by using different frequencies, but the info your sonar displays is not the level of detail that you can get with a 200 kHz unit.

The cross-talk problem is even more noticeable with a high power unit, which is also a feature we pay good money for to obtain the best level of detail. That power puts out stronger sonar signals, which will be received much stronger by all receivers (sonars) in the proximity.

The cross-talk problem is less noticeable the longer the boat you have, because of the greater distance between transducers. This helps keep the transducers cones from overlapping as you stated. Naturally the deeper the water, the more cross-talk will occur. Most people don't have a big problem with a 21 foot boat in water depths less than 30 feet deep.

If you need to use two units at once in deep water, you can do several different things to get the best possible sonar detail, and still view two units. One is to install narrow cone transducers either along side your wide cone transducers, or in place of them. People with universal sonar on their trolling motor are using a narrower beam, which is why they have less of a problem than others. Of course there are advantages and disadvantages to different size cones as well, but that is another topic.

Another solution is to run your two displays off of only one transducer, which can be done with a switch, just like you can setup your system to run two transducers from one unit (but only one at a time by switching from one to the other). More info on this can be found on Lowrances web site.

All of this is complicated for a lot of people, and they would prefer just to turn on a unit and have it display a picture that is simple to understand. Because the display is simple, they get the feeling they are seeing more fish, and in many cases this is correct since they couldn't understand the display or the settings on their previous unit. That is why Lowrance gives the user the option of showing fish symbols and the depth next to the symbol. To some, this setting is showing them more fish, but the reality is that this setting shows far less fish, and more false signals because the processor incorrectly identifies a lot of other objects (like branches) as fish.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling. The bottom line is that for my deep water fishing, I would rather have a unit with the power and processor capable of showing the best detail so I can see thermoclines, and baitfish at 80 feet deep, and my dropshot worm or spoon, rather than have two units that don't interfere but show me inferior levels of detail. If you only fish shallow water, you don't need the power of a more expensive unit. Of course, if your transducers are properly located, a powerful unit won't cross-talk in shallow water because the cones won't overlap.

ciao,
Marc

[Rich hamilton]

Marc,

Thanks for the detailed information that is what makes this forum so great. I understand what you are saying and actually fish to what you are saying. my eyes are on the front finder 90% of the day and I guess I will continue to just keep turning the units off and on. thanks again for the response. RR

[mark poulson]

Marc,
Three questions.
First, since using two units is sooo common, and the 192-200 megahertz range is the best, why doesn't Lowrance, or Pinpoint, or Garmin, or somebody, offer sets for a boat with one at 192 and the other at 200?
Second, how about a remote on/off switch at the bow for the console unit. That way, if there is crosstalk and you're fishing alone, you can shut off the console without leaving the trolling motor. I shut off the console when I'm fishing alone, but leave it on for my partner (usually one of my kids). If I'm fishing a team tourney, and the front unit is interfering with the console, I turn the console off.
Last, it seems that the crosstalk I get is a loss of the digital signal on one unit. It goes crazy, trying to find the bottom. But the graphs aren't affected. Is that common, and am I losing detail on the graph of the unit that has lost the digital signal?
So many questions, so little time! :O)

[Marc]

Mark,

You ask some good questions. On your first question, I have been told (I am not an electrical engineer nor have I tested this) that 192 kHz (what Lowrance and others used to use) and 200 kHz (today's standard) are close enough together that they will still cross-talk, so they don't make units for both. Additionally, several years ago the industry went to 200 kHz specifically to standardize frequencies between brands, so that boat rigging and non-OEM transducers could be developed and used. The Universal Sonars of MinnKota and Motorquide would not be possible or have a market if they couldn't be used by boat owners with different brands of sonar.

On your second question, a remote switch would come in handy, and could be rigged easily by a boat owner by installing a bow switch that was connected to the power cable of the console unit. I think I would prefer to take a couple of steps back to the console and switch off the unit because I would likely forget to turn a bow switch back on before moving back to the driver's seat, and then would have to go back up front and turn-on the remote switch before I could use the console sonar again. Also the more switching and wiring that goes on your setup, the more problems that can arise at the wrong time, and the harder it is to trouble-shoot problems.

On your third question, cross-talk can interfere with your digital signal reception, which depends on a constant and strong signal to display the bottom reading. The sonar signals from the back transducer are portraying a different bottom signal than the bow transducer (ie the stern transducer may be sending a bottom signal of 50 feet, and the bow transducer is sending a bottom echo of only 40 feet, so the sonar receiver is confused in its interpretation because both signals are credible and strong. That is what is causing the flashing of the digital reading. Yes, this reduces the information that your sonar display can show you. Actually, having your digital display turned on also reduces the signal quality as it utilizes power, which is one reason manufacturer's are making more powerful units.

To get the absolute best picture on your screen, all auto features should be turned-off (place the unit in manual mode), and the digital reading should be disabled, and the sensitivity and depth range should be manually adjusted for the best detailed display. This is especially important if you have a low-power or entry level sonar unit.

ciao,
Marc