Whats up with the sod rocks in Franks???? Cooch?

[185vsfrog]

How come every time the wind blows really hard or there is a big storm in the delta, the sod rocks seem to appear (in Franks Tract) . Some just seem like they have raised from the bottom and are at the same location. They just seem taller than they were before. I understand that some of these pieces of sod move around but what about them suddenly showing up from the depths out of the water? Are these free floating underneath and not attached to the bottom?

[davet.]

Just sunday I noticed several new ones that got blown up against the east side of Franks. Some were still floating. Seems to me that they build up over time out on the berms from layers of tule growth, and the tules catching sediment and then get broken off and float around during storms.
I like em, new fish holding spots.

[Mike]

Sod???? Lets play some Golf!!

They are pete clumps. They seem to be lifting off the bottom in the north bay. I dont understand why this occurs either, but they are floating all around in Franks which is very dangerus!! Watch where you are running in there and slow down. Some are just below the water line.

[L Dub]

I would think it's because of the lack of grass. There's no roots to hold anything down anymore, kinda like how landslides are more common after a fire.

[Cooch]

How come every time the wind blows really hard or there is a big storm in the delta, the sod rocks seem to appear (in Franks Tract) . Some just seem like they have raised from the bottom and are at the same location. They just seem taller than they were before. I understand that some of these pieces of sod move around but what about them suddenly showing up from the depths out of the water? Are these free floating underneath and not attached to the bottom?

A wierd combonation last week hit us that caused a bunch of them peat clumps to rise. That week during and after the Stren event, we had some extreme hot conditions, water temps in Franks rose to above 75 degrees. Then all of a sudden we git a major cold snap, water drops 10 degrees in two days, we git two consecutive days of 40+ mile per hour winds with very low tides. When this happens, that pete becomes very bouyant and breaks free!

What you guys saw over the weekend was nothing!!!!!!!! Last Thursday and Friday, the area from Russo's exit to the north and the wall out front of Sugar Barge, looked like Stonehenge times 10!!!!!! There were over 100 of these giant peat clumps 10-100 feet off the tulles. And there were 30-40 smaller clumps floating all over the middle of the Tract. During the late night and early morning high tides over the weekend, many of them floated off or settled back down, a lot of the smaller pieces ended up along Holland Track's levee wall down into Sandmound, and have since sunk back down.

Yet I have seen many of them floating all over the river system the past 4 days, so they have now ventured out of Franks. All the more reason to be on guard and aware of not only other boating traffic around you, but these floating clumps too. Some are very obvious, others are not. I would not recommend running very tight along those tulles around the west wall, sweep really wide and come off pad 200 yards out and idle in! Many of them have drifted east and south into the corner due to the incomming tides and west. Nwest winds.

And I don't want to leave out the fact of it being even more important right now to wear that life vest at all times out there. You hit one of these at 50-75 mph, something REAL ugly is gonna happen!!!!!!!

[Kentuck]

Wonder how hard it would be to get one of these in my truck? My garden would probably really enjoy some of that delta peat!

[RichThiel]

Pat,

Moved one out of Russo's last night, 12X12X4 and that was a small one. Their soft and yes Kentucky great for lawns and gardens. Theirs still about 10-12 within Piper going back and forth with the tide.

Some have been hit already, but know reports of damage, at low tide you can really see them. At high just run at a manageable speed around Franks and Little Franks and you'll be ok.

Rich Thiel

[BASSK9]

Cooch you catch plenty of fish but your science baffles me. I am very confused about just how the bouyancy of the peat changes because of a combination of temperature change and wind. 10 or 12 degree changes in water temperature are a frequent occurance and they do not always result in floating peat masses. Bouyancy is a function of density and dropping temperatures contracts a mass thereby making it more dense and less bouyant according to my logic. In addition this density change would compact the mass and tend to make it release disolved oxygen reducing the bouyancy further. My logic is that the wicked wind induced waves reduced the water pressure in the wave troughs and it agitated the water causing some of the peat masses to break free. Upon examination of the peat masses I have observed that they are laced with roots. Over the years the roots weaken and rot primarily at the peat/mud interface and the wind agitates it all and sets them free. It seems to me that the peat was the most bouyant at the time of the levy break and bouyancy would be degraded forever. The longer the peat was under water the more saturated and less bouyant it would become. HOWEVER
Decaying vegitation emits gasses that are trapped in the peat and set it free (even though saturated) but it also took the agitation of the wind and the extreme low tide. Temperature change in no way explains it and the trapped gasses from decay took many years to accumulate. Eventually the decaying process will win out and all of the peat shall rise. They may float away or become stranded in shallow water by a receeding tide.
I am sure that Stich and Fontes are tickled pink by all this. They will find all of those holes in Franks created by the escaping peat and be even harder to beat.

[Mike]

wow That explains everything!

[Cooch]

Oddly enough, sounds like we said purty much the same thing! Mine was far from a scientific explaination Don, just simple laymens terms, I ain't that smart! You give me too much credit! HAR! HAR! HAR!

[BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER]

This ain't rocket science

Strong winds and current cause eroision which loosens and break loose the peet....... the weeds and their roots systems which have anchored the peet down is gone this year in Franks....... thus the peet tends to break free more now than before.....

Next week we'll discuss how to solve cold fusion boys and girls

[Cooch]

This ain't rocket science

Strong winds and current cause eroision which loosens and break loose the peet....... the weeds and their roots systems which have anchored the peet down is gone this year in Franks....... thus the peet tends to break free more now than before.....

Next week we'll discuss how to solve cold fusion boys and girls

The odd thing here is, and I got this stuff floating in my back yard, I've not seen anything that resembles roots in this peat. In some cases, these chunks are 3-6 feet thick. I pull up the weeds at low tide every year here, their roots aren't much more than a foot deep and very tender, certainly not strong enough to hold the peat in place. I don't believe that the lack of weeds has anything ta do with them rising. The peat has been floating up for ever in Frank's tract. We just had some sort of natural phenomina last week where a bunch of it appeared.

The bottom line is, it IS there, be aware and proceede with caution out there right now.

[Iafrate94505]

but what's your point ?

the peat is still floating, now it sunk, oppps its floating again......

[Greg_Cornish]

Cooch you catch plenty of fish but your science baffles me.....

You might be correct but Cooches was less boring

[Andy Giannini]

Here are a couple more weird factors to factor in with "Peatbergs".

How much gas is being produced underneath, and the barometric pressure.

If you get a real minus tide combined with a low barometer, peatbergs can pop up easily. There wouldn't be much pressure holding them down. Another weird thing to think of is the moon's gravitational pull as it swings by, combined with other factors. Not counting swamp gas, the oxidation of the peat soils, or as Al Gore would mention global warming .

Has there been any earthquake things going on? Little tremors?

The truth is out there...

A.G.

[Guy Kelley]

Grumble; Grumble;

nothing like a bunch of know it Allis to upset my balance and want to make me fall off the planet.

Truth be known, When I was a young-in working in a nursery in our Bay Area, we sold peat as a soil conditioner.

When it would dry out in the summer , we had to put the bail in a tub of water for 24 hrs in order to get it we enough so we could pot plants with it as a soil mix.

Simple; when we had the hot weather recently the peat barges dried out. The high winds uprooted em. Now there so buoyant they float, until they reabsorb enough water to sink.

Roots ? there were nothing growing on em in the first place, they are just part of the natural landscape of Franks Tract. The only time they probably had anything growing on em was in mass when the farmer cultivated franks tract be for it flooded.

put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Andy Giannini]

Guy, peat is made up of organic materials mostly decaying vegetation. It not really dirt, like a good construction material.

The peat was made up of plant matter before anybody reclaimed Frank's Tract and planted any crops in it.

As far as sticking it in pipe and smoking it, you could!

Peat fires can burn seemingly forever, and some people actually use it for fuel where they don't have many trees.

Putting out a peat fire is just like blasting your bar b que with a firehose. Hot embers, ash, and steam, and more burning coals!

"I'll take Peat Triva for 500..."

A.G.

[Iafrate94505]

seems to me the earth farts and sometimes its loaded with peat.
sorta like Guy and Marty....

[Guy Kelley]

[quote="Iafrate94505"]seems to me the earth farts and sometimes its loaded with peat.
sorta like Guy and Marty....[/quote]

ANDY , I KNOW THAT PEAT IS AN ORGANIC MATTERIAL MADE OUT OF PLANT MATTER THAT HAS DECAYED AND ROTTED UNTILL WHAT IS LEFT IS WHAT WE GET IN THE BAG'S WE USE AT THE NURSERYS.

As for peat fires, the fire along highway 4 just east of middle river bridge has been burning now for two plus years and will probably burn for another two.

In the past the farmer would just put a syphon over the Levi bank and flood the area of the fire that was burning underground.

As fer pipe smoking its not peat, I'll let that smarty Iafrate9405 explane that one

[BASSK9]

Guy
How did the Pete barges as you call them dry out because of hot weather? They were underwater before they rose to the surface. I am to believe they dried out while submerged? As for you falling off the planet check out something called gravity. Somebodies comments about the Pete yield antigravity and you might fall off the planet?? You need to patent that concept right away. NASA needs to utilize that for space exploration, comments on the forum create antigravity! Antimatter too? Maybe we should comment more so the illegal immigrants will fall off the planet. Put your theory to a good application.

Barometric pressures effect could and probably does contribute however the real cause is the Methane gas accumulation due to decaying vegitation. The Delta area is full of Methane gas wells and more are being drilled every day. Pete decomposition yields Methane which eventually floats the Pete. Don't put that in your pipe and smoke it!

KNOW IT ALL BASSK9

[George Roth]

Oh, for Petes's sake! This is an interesting discussion. We don't have peat in my area of Idaho, except the peat contained in bags. I have only fished the Delta a couple of times but did find the large clumps of peat to be interesting.

[Andy Giannini]

More peat triva, peat was used in the movie TORA!TORA!TORA!

It blew up sky high for the special effects team, much better than other mediums.



A.G.

[Caudawg]

Speaking of Peet... I was in a delta team tournament years ago and the wind came up strong. So strong, that it put clouds of black grit in the air and coverd us and the boat. We could barely see accross the slough we were fishing. By the end of the day, we were fully coated by this black dusty grit and it was almost comical.
I had to wear my ski goggles just so I could keep fishing.

Anyway, my lungs were so full of this stuff that I developed bronchitis. I could taste that awful stuff every time I coughed and this lasted for over a year. Anyone else ever experience this?

I think it was Don Payne who told me that it was peet dust. I'm pretty sure he was right.

[Greg_Cornish]

Barometric pressures effect could and probably does contribute however the real cause is the Methane gas accumulation due to decaying vegitation. The Delta area is full of Methane gas wells and more are being drilled every day. Pete decomposition yields Methane which eventually floats the Pete. Don't put that in your pipe and smoke it!

KNOW IT ALL BASSK9

Which type of peat does the delta have?

Peat material is either fibric, hemic, or sapric. Fibric peats are the least decomposed, and comprise intact fiber. Hemic peats are somewhat decomposed, and sapric are the most decomposed.

Phragmites peat is one composed of reed grass, Phragmites australis, and other grasses. It is denser than many other types of peat.

[Tobe]

Which type of peat does the delta have?

Peat material is either fibric, hemic, or sapric. Fibric peats are the least decomposed, and comprise intact fiber. Hemic peats are somewhat decomposed, and sapric are the most decomposed.

Phragmites peat is one composed of reed grass, Phragmites australis, and other grasses. It is denser than many other types of peat.

Greg, you can click, copy and paste all you want but you’re bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Don's observations come from his intellect, not a five-minute Wikipedia research.

[RichThiel]

Greg, Toby, and the other's,

I've been around here in the Valley since I was 4, from Grizzly Island to Willows, grew up on a 1,000 acres of rice fields and duck clubs. Take Grizzly Island and it is 100% Peet. I can remember my dad starting fires to burn off weeds and to grade new ponds or change the levee direction. He would do it in June or July (Burn) by the first week in October he would flood the ponds and the fire that he started in July would be still burning. One spot in particular was burning 6ft down and he dug it up by hand to put it out. From that experience he learned to just scrap it (land) and then burn in piles, control fire.

Willows, 250 duck club and 250 rice. same situation. Found that the Akolia in the ground was worth more than the rice was worth. Same situation with the fires tho. Burn for ever if not under a control envirmont.

Look at the Valley back 1000's of years and you will learn that at one time everything was under water. From Redding to Fresno's.

Don & A.G are 100% right. I just couldn't explain it as well has Don can. I just know of it from experience and first hand observation and listening to farmer's or grower's

Rich Thiel

[Guy Kelley]

[quote="BASSK9"]Guy
How did the Pete barges as you call them dry out because of hot weather? They were underwater before they rose to the surface. I am to believe they dried out while submerged? As for you falling off the planet check out something called gravity. Somebodies comments about the Pete yield antigravity and you might fall off the planet?? You need to patent that concept right away. NASA needs to utilize that for space exploration, comments on the forum create antigravity! Antimatter too? Maybe we should comment more so the illegal immigrants will fall off the planet. Put your theory to a good application.

Barometric pressures effect could and probably does contribute however the real cause is the Methane gas accumulation due to decaying vegitation. The Delta area is full of Methane gas wells and more are being drilled every day. Pete decomposition yields Methane which eventually floats the Pete. Don't put that in your pipe and smoke it!

KNOW IT ALL BASSK9[/quote]

Guess, I am more full of Methane than Peat, if ya believe anything I say or print,

BUT, It is sort of FUN once in a while to sort of reach out and YANK your leg a bit.

OH ! , by the way how did they dry out , seeing they were under water, Easy, The Delta Was At A Minus Tide & They Sort Of Floated Away. Just Like I Do In My ANTIGRAVITY SHOES

[Iafrate94505]

Guy
How did the Pete barges as you call them dry out because of hot weather? They were underwater before they rose to the surface. I am to believe they dried out while submerged? As for you falling off the planet check out something called gravity. Somebodies comments about the Pete yield antigravity and you might fall off the planet?? You need to patent that concept right away. NASA needs to utilize that for space exploration, comments on the forum create antigravity! Antimatter too? Maybe we should comment more so the illegal immigrants will fall off the planet. Put your theory to a good application.

Barometric pressures effect could and probably does contribute however the real cause is the Methane gas accumulation due to decaying vegitation. The Delta area is full of Methane gas wells and more are being drilled every day. Pete decomposition yields Methane which eventually floats the Pete. Don't put that in your pipe and smoke it!

KNOW IT ALL BASSK9

and thats gunna help catch fish how