"NEW" Angler's Chioce Pro-Am's

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:24 am

This will be a little long.

First thing is I've asked all organizations to let anglers help with decisions, (advisory board). Mark Mendez has taken me up on it. He wants to run a Pro-Am circuit for the fishermen and NOT make money off the entries. He will make money off Bass West and selling tackle. He wants to "break even" only to cover his exspenses for the events. If the community "helps" that goes straight to help with exspenses. I have seen a letter from Oroville with my own eyes.

We need a strong weekend, working man circuit. I think we need two really. I believe this can be an instant "home run" for EVERYONE.

Here are some thoughts.

110% Pro pay-out this year. Get this thing off the ground and the percentage can GROW with sponsor dollars being added to boost an even better pay-out.
80% Am pay-out Same growth potenial here.
$400 Pro entry $200 Am entry
$12000 from each event ($36000) will go to the last event at Clear Lake. This is to try and get anglers to follow the cicuit to build numbers with no TOC. The anglers that fish all the events will fish for the $36000 at Clear Lake in the order you finish in the tournament. (There is a possibility there might be additional events, probably not, but possible. Shasta comes to mind). At least 80% payback at each event to still draw locals. The $12000 might have to vary some. (both more or less)
5 fish combined weight
An off-limits period to help even the field.
Oroville, Delta, Clear Lake, as it stands right now. FLW moved a date and Angler's is trying to move so there is no conflict for EVERYONE'S best interest.
Open book format. The book will list and show, entries, options, and paybacks.
Angler's Chioce wants to "start fast". I believe in it. We need it. I'm willing to help. I will be the rod sponsor and the first 50 Pro entries will have a chioce on a $230 Dobyns Rod. You must pay for the first event and a $100 deposit on the remaining events ($600 total). There will be "something" for the first 50 Am's as well.

Fishermen can shoot holes in anything. If you have positive ideas, please share them here. They will be looked at by a group of anglers.

Things are not totally worked out yet. There is a group of anglers that are helping with decisions. Several Pro's and several Am's. I'm signing up right now and yes I am winning a rod

Who wants to go fishing, not break the bank, grow the sport and put fun back into tournaments?

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:34 am

Wow, Dobyns & Mendez....Who would have thunk it.......Sounds great..... See what a little competition will do for the angler!

James

Cesar L · Post by **Cesar L** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:37 am

Sounds good to me...Ill pay my deposits for am when we get a final date for delta. My boss wont give that much time that week for flw and ac delta.

Vern · Post by **Vern** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:51 am

Gary welcome aboard with you and Mark working together this has to be a winn-win for the anglers. Vern

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:52 am

One question....Are we fishing for a boat or cash?

James

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:06 pm

Sounds good to me. Lets even consider having a tournament in the summer on CL.

Can AC move the conflict with WCB in June?

You all may be onto something.

The time is right for an affordable weekend pro/am where we all fish for cash and have a year end championship. Cash pays the bills.

I think 400 or 500 is a good number.

Thanks for stepping up to the plate.

Andrew Jackson · Post by **Andrew Jackson** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:10 pm

Sure, Fine....The North guys always get the good stuff. Whatever happened to Mead, Mohave and Havasu...sniff, sniff, whine, whine....

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:14 pm

LOVE IT Gary!!!

Great timing, good foundation, and I'm sure you'll get lots of support. I'll join in if I am able...

Roger

Jason C. · Post by **Jason C.** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:16 pm

WOW that sounds great!! If I get the money or a job you can definately count me in!!

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:17 pm

Cash at this point. Mark would have to purchase boats/engines.

RipnRog · Post by **RipnRog** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:18 pm

Cash is always a good thing........

tfranceschi · Post by **tfranceschi** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:19 pm

With this kind of payout and the implementation of an Angler's Advisory board, Angler's Choice is taking steps in the right direction. We need a strong weekend/working man's organization in the West and this look like it is shaping up to be that.

Thank you for the info Gary, you can count me in!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:31 pm

Gary,

I think this is going to be a home run. Sounds like all of the complaints that people have had over the years about this circuit vs that circuit have finally been resolved thanks to the Angler Advisory board. I think this formula works well for a lot of people fishing the Pro-Am circuits. The only decision at this point is going to be how the calendar plays into effect with other tournaments/holidays.

phill strader · Post by **phill strader** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:41 pm

A tournament circuit organized and run by anglers, for the anglers.....hummm that just might work!! With all the grumbling, mumbling, and bumbling that's been going on over circuits/organizations, I think this is a solid concept. The bottom line is anglers just want to fish, have faith in the organization, and be able to afford what we love to do. Good schedule, affordable entry, good payout for the first two, and what should be a great payout for the third.....I'm in!

Phil Strader

WildDog3 · Post by **WildDog3** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:42 pm

I'm definately in

jrbasspro · Post by **jrbasspro** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:45 pm

Gary I really like the Idea, and clear lake is a great lake to hold the championship on,
but the only suggustion I have; is have one of the qualifing pro ams at clearlake and than move the chapionshin to Havasu, mead, nacimento or mojave

a good deal of the local anglers will probably jump on the circuit, and if you move the championship to a neutral lake it might even the field a little more or better yet depending how many qualify pick a smaller lake.

drawbacks are travel time, distance, and as always money

just my 2 cents

walt kondracki

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:46 pm

Sounds like a great deal for everybody. An affordable tournament that everyone can fish with an off limits period! A++++++++++

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:56 pm

Are they going to stay with 2009 pro-am schedule they have posted on their website? If not, when will new dates be posted?

no sked · Post by **no sked** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:03 pm

This what we need! I'm definitely in. I have no problem with it, but it will be nice to not feel like I"m fishing a Ranger Owner's Tourney. Cash or boat shouldn't matter its our (angler's) money in the end.

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:17 pm

Cash is better at this point, hard to sell a boat in this market and cash doesn't "skew" the payback percentage like the "retail" value of a boat does.

James

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:49 pm

Charlie wrote:Are they going to stay with 2009 pro-am schedule they have posted on their website? If not, when will new dates be posted?

We're working on moving the Delta date now after the announcement from FLW this morning. Also trying to reach out to WCB about what we might be able to do for the conflict in June.

sTony

brian stafford · Post by **brian stafford** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:53 pm

Ray Desmangles and I were asked to meet with Mark this past Saturday as part of his AM advisory group (4 hours of discussion). I can tell you that Mark is serious about this. He listened to everything that we had to say and whether he implements all that we suggested is immaterial. He listened, was absolutely open to our suggestions and the discussions were very candid. All i can say is there are some very exciting things that he will be announcing about this tournament, hopefully by the end of this week. And Gary was right. He is not looking at pulling any profit from the entry fees of these tournaments and the payouts will be open for everyone to see. This tournament format has the potential to satisfy a large cross section of Western anglers and is great for the guys that don't have much more than weekends to prepare and fish. If we can get behind this there is the potential for this thing to grow. Will it be perfect? Probably not, but Mark is listening and is committed to making this work to the best of his ability. He is looking at the long term viability of this circuit in addition to the short term. Jump on this guys, you are very likely to get what you have been asking for in a Pro-Am for a long time. Count me in!
Brian Stafford

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:28 pm

sTony wrote:
Charlie wrote:Are they going to stay with 2009 pro-am schedule they have posted on their website? If not, when will new dates be posted?
We're working on moving the Delta date now after the announcement from FLW this morning. Also trying to reach out to WCB about what we might be able to do for the conflict in June.

sTony

What was it?

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:31 pm

This one Mike..

http://westernbass.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47269&f=2

M. Warner · Post by **M. Warner** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:45 pm

sounds great, but what are the possibilities of getting a southern circuit started as well? like mead mohave and havasu? we have no pro ams left to fish down here. just wondering. or I guess i will have to travel.

philip garcia · Post by **philip garcia** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:06 pm

I think that it is what we really need right now. One major complaint that I have is with registering. Ac use to charge you three percent for using a card. Wich means if you call up and enter all three with a card there is a $36.00 fee on top of registration. I would think mailing a check would be more work on their part as well as ours. This fee is not justified in my eyes. If they have to charge this fee than at least give us a voucher for the same amount at bass tackle depot. The easier something is to do the more people will do it. If you get rid of this fee I think you will have more participants.

basswest · Post by **basswest** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:14 pm

Hey Phillip, AC does not make money by charging a fee on credit cards. We only cover what it cost of the credit card processing company. Any business on this forum can vouch for that. It is not a profit for anybody. Checks are fine and preferred as we incur no fee's.

Thanks for the input.

Mark

Alex M. · Post by **Alex M.** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:21 pm

M. Warner wrote:sounds great, but what are the possibilities of getting a southern circuit started as well? like mead mohave and havasu? we have no pro ams left to fish down here. just wondering. or I guess i will have to travel.

+1

The NorCal guys must be stoked right now, however....How 'bout doing a North AND South region? Maybe even do a 100 boat cap. for the Southern region like WON Bass had planned on doing for Castaic and DVL before the cancellations????

Just my .02

longshot · Post by **longshot** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:25 pm

Sounds great im defanitly in and excited to be a part of this....... I own a business and we are charged a percentage and monthly fee to accept credit cards..... I have hated it because i cannot pass the charge to my customers and so i eat the % on not only my labor but the mat. as well. Grrrrr

brian stafford · Post by **brian stafford** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:46 pm

Phil:
I had a good day fishing with you on the delta last year.

We also accept credit cards at my business. And yes it costs us about 3% for each transaction. I don't think it is unreasonable to pass those costs onto the buyer. Look at Arco gas stations. Their gas is less than other stations typically but they do not accept credit cards. This practice of passing on these costs is becoming more of the norm these days in all kinds of businesses. They either charge less and not take credit cards or they charge more or pass the charge to the customer. I know WON bass always charged my card 3% last year when signing up for their tournaments.

Good luck to you this year! You had a good year last year...1st at the Clear Lake Stren as a pro) and I am sure you are going to be one of the guys to beat in this circuit.

Brian Stafford
Brian

BMX Bassin · Post by **BMX Bassin** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:54 pm

Well I know Mendez does have the best rep. But if Dobyns is in on it and It could be run efficiently like BassDepot and not like BassWest magazine it could be good.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:56 pm

THROW IN A DON PEDRO AND I WILL GET YOU A FREE SPONSORED BARBACUE HERE AT DON PEDRO , A PLACE TO CHECK IN AND ALSO HAVE AWARDS !!

MIKE TREMONT · Post by **MIKE TREMONT** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:12 pm

I really hope it works out for you Mark. As I've stated here and privately I have never understood why you couldn't get the support in the past. The odds in the past seemed the best at winning a boat if you fished AC.

I just got laid off yesterday, otherwise I would getting my check in the mail asap.

fishfynder · Post by **fishfynder** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:34 pm

Sounds great Gary. It will be good for the anglers to have a voice in this. Thanks for stepping in with your sponsorship.

leachman90 · Post by **leachman90** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:03 pm

Sounds awesome Gary. Just need to see the dates and start saving some gas money up. I would love to come down and fish those waters.I think the Delta still owes me a couple "donkeys".

philip garcia · Post by **philip garcia** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:09 pm

some of my friends called me and told me the same thing so I understand the fee now. Maybe they could let us pay with atm or a voided check over the phone. Hey Brian it was a good time on the delta with you. I hope we can fish together in a shared wieght tourney I know we would weigh in some of your fish

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:00 pm

ABSOLUTELY AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!

Check your schedule against my calendar to get my check in the mail!!!!!!

Great job Mark and A/C!!!!

Jeff Huth · Post by **Jeff Huth** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:16 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong,
Angler run,
Open book,
Low entry,
Off limits,
Shared weight,
No sponsor restrictions,
Fair shake for the Co's,
Now if you can get the circuit Ranger Cup eligible, let me here the negatives.
Sounds like a winning formula that you may want to start thinking about limiting entries !!!
I'm In !

Brian Ruthman · Post by **Brian Ruthman** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:57 pm

Can you do the Pro and Co-Angler draw while everyone is present like the morning of the event , Nor-Cal bass does it this way . They put everyones name on a chip Pro's in one box Am's in another and then they draw one chip from each box , it works really good . I always hear guys bitching that the draws are rigged and they think certain guys get the best Pro's . Keep it all out in the open for all to see and everyone will be happy .

Dewayne · Post by **Dewayne** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:25 pm

The concepts listed sound great. Here are a few comments I would add.

Scheduling is the tough part. Place events over the entire season including summer and fall so we can get a weekend or two prior to pre-fish. It's tough, but events like the summer 3 weight in tournament A/C held a couple years ago would help.

Options - If there are options, the monies paid in need to be disclosed in the results.

I like the concept of a points based additional payback at the final event. It's a good way of rewarding those who support the entire circuit.

Personally, I prefer firm rule enforcement. The rules need to be cllear and enforced apon all anglers equally. A level playing field is critical as rumors ruin everyones day.

M-Th off limits?? Working anglers have to manage each day off wisely. I remember early many events when I first started when I was leaving on Sunday and seeing many anglers showing up for 5-13 days of pre-fishing. WOW was that intimidating.

It looks like something I would really like to support. I will have to see if my current commitments allow.

jletsinger · Post by **jletsinger** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:32 pm

Brian Ruthman wrote:Can you do the Pro and Co-Angler draw while everyone is present like the morning of the event , Nor-Cal bass does it this way . They put everyones name on a chip Pro's in one box Am's in another and then they draw one chip from each box , it works really good . I always hear guys bitching that the draws are rigged and they think certain guys get the best Pro's . Keep it all out in the open for all to see and everyone will be happy .

Exactly....Do what you guys are talking about and I'll fish them all. I think I'm going to buy a Dobyns rod just because this is such a good idea. It's about time someone took charge of this tournament floundering...kudos Gary.

kopper_bass · Post by **kopper_bass** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:35 pm

dang it Gary, why did you have to go and make things right? Now i have to go and re-evaluate my fishing decisions and see how to make this work for me too.

Great job of getting involved and convincing Mark that this IS what guys are wanting. I think it can be a big success.

Kopper

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:41 pm

Off limits will keep guys from out of the area fishing the events. Very few long distance guys can afford to pre-fish before the off-limits then come back for the tournament. You may feel it takes away the local advatage but it actually creates one. Plus off-limits are VERY hard to enforce.

Steve Reed · Post by **Steve Reed** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:35 pm

Mark really does have a good vision for the sport. I think this will be really sucessful. Heck the last two AC pro-ams I fished I had a blast and didn't know why more guys didn't come out and fish for a boat.

Should be interesting to see where this goes.

Steve

Terry Battisti · Post by **Terry Battisti** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:42 pm

I agree with Robert F. This circuit looks good for me except that being from Idaho, it doesn't make sense for me to travel 800+ miles to hit a lake cold. I understand if this year it can't be changed but if you change it next year I will be there lock, stock and barrel. I'm sure others will be too.

Gary, it was great to finally get some time to hang with ya this past weekend. Thanks for the boat ride, for letting me hang at the house Sunday night and for being my taxi. By the way, if ya saw I had the damn reading glasses on my next, you should have told me before I lifted them from ya!

Terry

PS: Tony, thanks for fixing my acct!

phill strader · Post by **phill strader** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:58 pm

As someone who has to travel a long distance, I am 100% in favor of an off limits period. I believe it puts everyone on an even playing field, i also feel it results in a better overall tournament because the fish haven't been beat up for a week or more. One or two day practice, two day tournament, done deal.

phil strader

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:00 pm

There are pro's and con's to off limits. I think it helps even the field and the fish are not beat up as bad prior to the event. I will promise you this, if Gary H., Mike T., Jim D., myself and MANY others put 4 or 5 days on the water practicing, we will have a HUGE advantage. Most guys cannot put that amount of time into prefishing. Also, anyone stupid enough to be on the water in an off limits period is an idiot and will get caught sooner than later. There will still be guides, clients, and fun fishermen still out there. I don't believe this is even an issue.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:50 pm

Agree 100% Gary. The off limits is a great idea.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:23 pm

There are some anglers that articulate their convictions and I automatic pay attention too and they have posted their approval of this circuit. I must say that this new circuit has capture some of the objectionable things that I had with other tournament organizations and that being a fair payout for the co-anglers 80% with growth potential, not having to use vacation time to participate in the event by the off-limits period and the advisory group. Knowing that Roy Desmangles is on the advisory group the co-anglers will have their point of view heard.

As I read what Gary wrote there are three events and a last event at Clear Lake but why no TOC? The way I see it the last event is just like a TOC. Is there something that is not liked about TOCâ€™s? This circuit does not have to run their TOC like others have run their TOCâ€™s if that is the case â€“ it is just hard to call it the â€œLast Eventâ€

keithcant · Post by **keithcant** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:44 am

I echo the vast majority, this is a Superb start.

As I previously mentioned---it likely wouldn't take long for the W.O.N. vacuum to be filled.
Gosh, just a little common sense--cognizant of many of the economic strains and there you go------a viable tournament plan.
Kudos to the organizers!!

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